John Sayers Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Music teacher Alun Renshaw took the school pupils to a nearby recording studio without the permission of the headmistress after being approached by the band's management. the school wasn't involved, it was a private agreement. cheers john Studio Design Forum Studios Under Construction Home Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 That doesn't even matter. They still weren't old enough to legally engage in any kind of contract, and in the absense of a contract where one side has an unfair advantage because of that lack of a contract, what do you have? An implied contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmix Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by John Sayers: They turned up and performed - that is an implied agreement. They were session singers and aren't entitled to royalties IMO. The school receiving a payment is an implied fee for service - the kids should sue the school cheers johnEven professional session singers must sign paperwork in the form of "Work for Hire" agreements. As Wewus said the implied contract just for showing up will side with the rights of the minors. Rob Hoffman http://www.robmixmusic.com Los Angeles, CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmix Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by Shars AKA YaCa: Yeah Rob but as minors they didnt have the rights to sign their own contracts either so that means if they had no contract, they have royalties and as the fee was payed to te school,they also lose their rights to payments. Cruel world isnt it?Nope, the law doesn't work that way. The school does not have the right to sign away the rights of individual students - there's plenty of case law to back that up. And just because they can't sign the contracts without legal representation doesn't mean their rights are forfeit. Rob Hoffman http://www.robmixmusic.com Los Angeles, CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sayers Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Come on - this is silly - I've recorded kids from some school many times. It was always an agreement that the school received a donation and the kids got a great experience and possibly a copy of the track. the last time was for Olivier Newton John and I'm pretty sure she didn't pay session fees to the 15 odd kids. plus this is 30 years old for krisake! cheers john Studio Design Forum Studios Under Construction Home Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmix Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel: Originally posted by robmix: You might be right Jeff, but . . . . as minors they didn't have the right to sign their rights away, right ?Again, this is all moot... I'm only familiar with US law in this regard. The only person at fault, legally, was the teacher. It would be argued that the band compensated the school, and it would have then been the school's responsibility to get releases from the individual students. I only know this because I've had a university's choir recorded on tracks before and went through this process. Anyway, since the school wasn't really aware of the details and only the teacher seemed to be involved, he'd be the one responsible for further compensation to the kids... not the band, not any outside entity for royalty payment. So the kids would have to collectively sue him as an individual to get paid. I have no idea how this will work in the UK. Here, they'd get nothing. And like it! By the way... that record was from around 1979, IIRC. Those kids are now in their mid to late thirties (about the same age as me, come to think of it). - JeffAny decent attorney will name the school, the teacher, the headmaster, the recording studio, the label, the producer and the band in the lawsuit. Each one was at fault for not making sure the proper paperwork was filed. Rob Hoffman http://www.robmixmusic.com Los Angeles, CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 If you don't pay the kids.....you can't have any pudding!!!! Hey, did you know that the Little Rascals were never paid so much as a dime for acting in all of those movies. They made nothing for their efforts....but you can bet someone else did. Really sad life many of those kids grew up to lead...if you've ever read any of their bios. Not a happy story. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by John Sayers: Come on - this is silly - I've recorded kids from some school many times. It was always an agreement that the school received a donation and the kids got a great experience and possibly a copy of the track. the last time was for Olivier Newton John and I'm pretty sure she didn't pay session fees to the 15 odd kids. plus this is 30 years old for krisake! cheers johnBut here's the thing. Did any of those tracks become BIG hits that are played on the radio, all over the world, for the last 25 years, and are they on an album that is one of the best selling albums of all time? What's fair here? Those kids did some good work on that record which has been played millions of times all over the world, their singing is a major element in the song. Give them a piece of the pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sayers Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Sure - give them a piece of the pie by all means but it has to come from Floyd. cheers john Studio Design Forum Studios Under Construction Home Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by Super 8: If you don't pay the kids.....you can't have any pudding!!!! Hey, did you know that the Little Rascals were never paid so much as a dime for acting in all of those movies. They made nothing for their efforts....but you can bet someone else did. Really sad life many of those kids grew up to lead...if you've ever read any of their bios. Not a happy story.What? who got paid, their parents? That's terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by John Sayers: Come on - this is silly - johnyes, well you may think this is silly. But no matter what personal opinions are, it will still come down to how the court sees it. This is why you ALWAYS should get a consent form signed. Pay some kind of nominal fee, and then a deals a deal. As far as who is at fault? The producer. For not getting proper consent and clearence forms signed by all involved, includign the parents of the students. IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by TheWewus: What? who got paid, their parents? That's terrible.MGM Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursers Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Mostly Grumpy Moms? The Keyboard Chronicles Podcast Check out your fellow forumites in an Apple Music playlist Check out your fellow forumites in a Spotify playlist My Music: Stainless Fields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shars Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 I did some reaserch and found out that under the 1997 Copyrights Act in the UK, they can get back payments of royalties and also any future payments as artists even though they were payed a flat fee in the first instance. Told you there was a loop hole somewhere that they used....nothing new there as in British law, you'll always find a loop hole! www.myspace.com/yacababy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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