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advice needed... switch to Logic from DP?


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Hi, I'm new here... :D

 

I'm thinking of finally switching over to Logic (a program I dislike because of it's basic resemblence to Cubase). I've gotten my hands on previous versions of Logic (pre-ESX24, I think ver5) and I know just enough about Logic to know that it's complex as hell and basically has an open architecture, which is a hinderence, not a feature to me, as I'm more into music than programming, and I'm busy enough trying to compose and produce without having to design my own programming environment... y'know what I mean?

 

I've always been an avid DP user, but I'd like to train myself on Logic to make myself more appealing to clients. Plus, I've used the ESX24 module and I think it's fantastic. I currently use Unity for nearly everything (a la Gigastudio, but with non-streaming audio), and it's a little unstable...

 

Since Apple bought Logic, I've always thought it was a matter of time before I made the switch, even though I'm such a devoted DP user. Once more, here's the "pros" as I see them...

 

- ESX24, plus lots of other softsynths in the Logic 7 package

- Filmscore features comparable to DP (its strong suit)

- Apple's tech support and future support

- Excellent user groups available

- Neat new features (Apple Loops, for instance)

- Good package of native plug-ins

- "Logic fluency" is getting pretty critical as a pro programmer

- Better sooner than later to get started mastering the program

 

The ESX24/Logic integrated environment is the strongest feature, in my opinion... but, what do I know? DP/Unity is giving me the blues...

 

Anyone want to comment with some advice? I'd sure appreciate anyone's input. I'm also a PT user and a GigaStudio user too... I speak pretty much all Mac music programs. Any help, comments, talk, would be great. Thanks.

David Tobocman

www.edgewisemusic.com

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I use both now every day. It certainly can't hurt to learn it...it definitely handles virtual instruments in a much more logical way.

 

Like you, I feel the MOTU interface is a bit more comfortable, but the jump from 3.X to 4 was horribly buggy and turned me off.

 

But they're both great, and if you can, you should do both.

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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I may just be a cat, but in my opinion I think Logic is the one to go with.

 

The move to Apple has not been without its bumps, and a lot of Logic folk seemed pissed at the continuing lack of total ADC and the price of Apple/Logic tech support. But it seems like the writing's on the wall that Logic will be the Final Cut Pro of the audio world, and the DAW horse to ride into the foreseable future.

 

Having ordered Logic 7 (and waiting for it to arrive), at least that's my plan.

Dooby Dooby Doo
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No DP, but i use Cubase, Logic and Nuendo. I use most often Nuendo because i do a lot surround.

 

For me the only thing what Logic really does better is the score, printed music looks better with Logic.

The rest is a matter of personal preferences.

I prefer Cubase SX/Nuendo over Logic because i think it serves better my needs as a multimedia producer. But for someone who makes music only, Logic is perfect.

-Peace, Love, and Potahhhhto
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I was ready to switch when Logic 7 was announced, then they announced DP4.5. It seems to have addressed a lot of my wish list, so rather than spend a grand as well as a lot of time learning a new program, I ordered the upgrade. It has full automatic delay compensation, which Logic doesn't. And for someone who has a UAD card (or powercore) that itself is reason enough to stay with DP.

 

But I do find myself looking longingly at some of 7's features, like the integration of synths and EXS, and most especially the distributed processing ability. For someone like me who is a Mac nut and has infected my wife and relatives and her officemates with Maciitis, being able to use older computers alongside the latest and greatest (and most expensive) from Apple is a boon, to say the least.

 

If Apple redesigned the user interface, I might have switched already. But with DP 4.5, I can afford to wait. And since I too do a lot of scoring, it's even harder to let go of DP now.

Raul
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Originally posted by dtobocman:

Has anyone made a fearful jump to Logic only to be pleasantly surprised? What made the transition easier than expected?

I'm relying on the fact that I have yet to receive my copy, so I have yet to have any (other) reason to bitch about it!
Dooby Dooby Doo
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Originally posted by Duddits:

Originally posted by dtobocman:

Has anyone made a fearful jump to Logic only to be pleasantly surprised? What made the transition easier than expected?

I'm relying on the fact that I have yet to receive my copy, so I have yet to have any (other) reason to bitch about it!
A moment to savor.

David Tobocman

www.edgewisemusic.com

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Originally posted by dtobocman:

Has anyone made a fearful jump to Logic only to be pleasantly surprised? What made the transition easier than expected?

Well, it was scary as hell, as I had deadlines...but about a week after I registered, I received a videotape from Emagic. It was basically an ad for a new set of instructional videos, but in it, the specialist (his name escapes me) did a few basic things with screen sets and setting up the environment that were epiphanies for me. It put everything in a new light, and it's been smooth sailing ever since.

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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Originally posted by zeronyne:

Originally posted by dtobocman:

Has anyone made a fearful jump to Logic only to be pleasantly surprised? What made the transition easier than expected?

Well, it was scary as hell, as I had deadlines...but about a week after I registered, I received a videotape from Emagic. It was basically an ad for a new set of instructional videos, but in it, the specialist (his name escapes me) did a few basic things with screen sets and setting up the environment that were epiphanies for me. It put everything in a new light, and it's been smooth sailing ever since.
I'll pray for epiphanies like that...

 

There's a wealth of help out there (really good user forums), but what I'm looking for is exactly what you've described: basic setups of screen sets and envirnoments. This is what I find so daunting about the feature-laden open architecture... too many options, no set way of doing anything. Every task has an infinite way of being approached and accomplished.

 

You switched over on a deadline? Talk about trial by fire. I'm sweating just reading about that...

David Tobocman

www.edgewisemusic.com

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Originally posted by dtobocman:

You switched over on a deadline? Talk about trial by fire. I'm sweating just reading about that...

If DP wasn't crashing every 3 minutes, I wouldn't have. I truly believe that understanding how the environment works is the first priority...it's the one thing that truly does not exist in DP.

 

The next thing is to get comfortable with switching screen sets. Once you do it, you'll wonder how you lived without it. I have two 17" LCDs...a total of 2560 X 1024 pixels, yet I still find that switching screens is crucial to a smooth workflow.

 

After those two things (and the damn Klopfgeist...you'll see. :D ), you should try to do a song in the way you usually work and refer to the appropriate sections of the manual as you come upon roadblocks. This will keep you from having to read the manual from front to back...impossible to retain.

 

The best online resource is probably at sonikmatter, but their forums take a bit of getting used to if you are accustomed to the wild and wooly SSS - their forums are strictly on topic, almost to a fault. Use "search" religiously.

 

As I said, I think it's good to learn them all...I'm considering diving back into Cubase/Nuendo any day now. Good luck to you!

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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Dave, I gotta say that I totally disagree with what your saying. IMO, you couldn't be more wrong. I'm not going to try and convince you, as you've most likely made up your mind.

And just what does FDR have to do with any of this?

And just what do you think your doing here? Did you get permission to leave the political forum?

:D

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The moment Apple "Final Cuts" the Logic UI, I'll buy it. That's the main thing that keeps me in DP, the fact that it's pleasant to look at and seems to jive with my work style better. I have just never gotten along with any German-designed software, as strange as that sounds. Hated Logic 4 and 5, hated Spark, never liked Cubase. Not because they were in any way inferior capability-wise, but because the workflow just didn't make sense to me. Maybe I don't make sense...

 

Would have thought Apple would have tweaked the UI by now. DP 4.5 is making me pretty happy right now, but you can't help but agree with the idea that Logic is very likely to become the Final Cut of audio, and something of a standard.

Current live rig: Roland RD700SX, Hammond XK-3 with Leslie System 21, and Muse Receptor. Also a Nord Stage 76 other times instead. And a Roland FP-7 for jazz gigs.

HOME: Kawai MP8 + a bunch of VI's.

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Smith... I hear ya' loud and clear. I agree. I dislike the German-style user interface. It's all Cubase to me... basically a glorified drum machine. DP is something else entirely. But...

 

Have you used the ESX24 sampler? It's quite simply, the best soft sampler for the Mac platform I've used and it integrates directly into Logic... you don't leave the program.

 

Setting up my soft sampler (Unity) for production is never easy. The ESX24 is positively transparent. You just add a track and go... It's already loaded as part of Logic.

 

The other huge selling point is that I work for other composers and need to stay current with popular platforms. I know DP and ProTools... I think the forward-looking part of me needs to learn Logic, and well. I can't very well sell myself as "the shit" and not know Logic.

 

Thanks for your reply... it's cool of you to help out...

David Tobocman

www.edgewisemusic.com

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I, too, have both...

 

I've been a Performer guy since v2.14 (late '80's) so I'm really used to it, but I used to run Notator on my Atari many years ago so Logic makes sense to me as well.

 

I tend to use DP more just because I'm so much more familiar with it, but I'm committed to doing my next project in Logic just so I can learn it better.

 

dB

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I started using Logic about 3 years ago and I still haven't got around to setting up custom environments.I did create an Autoload song in version 5, but when I upgraded to V.6 i lost it. It's been over a year and I still haven't gotten around to it. They aren't necessary to get work done.

 

I find Logic easier to get around than Pro Tools (and I wrote a book on it :D ). I also like the the sound and the ease of using soft-synths (I use Atmosphere for most my non-rhythm tracks).

 

Just jump in David. You're a smart guy and it's not that complicated. I'll bet that you'll be up and running in no time at all.

 

Jeff

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Originally posted by dtobocman:

Has anyone made a fearful jump to Logic only to be pleasantly surprised? What made the transition easier than expected?

YES!

 

YES!

 

YES!

 

YES!

 

YES!

 

Oh, my goodness! I should say a prayer of thanks every day for having the good fortune to have switched to Logic.

 

I was a Vision user when Opcode went out of business (effectively). I had tried Performer previously, but it was buggy, so I decided not to go that route. I tried Cubase, but it just didn't click for me. Then I tried Logic.

 

Forget what you've heard, it's not difficult. It's DIFFERENT, but not that much, because all of the modern sequencing/recording programs have become more Logic-like in recent versions.

 

Complaints about Logic usually stem from the Environment, i.e. the area that links MIDI instruments to the sequencer. This was a little bit confusing when I started, because at that time, Logic came pre-configured with a lot of junk in the Environment. Luckily, they included a tutorial (on CD) that showed you how to blow this mess away and come up with your own setup. I worked through the tutorial in about half an hour and I was on my way.

 

A couple of weeks later, I stopped by one of the New York music stores and happened to meet a Logic clinician, completely by chance. He gave me a 20-minute demo and showed me a bunch of features. That really helped me to accelerate the learning curve.

 

My suggestions -

 

- Contact a friend or associate who uses Logic and ask them for a demo.

 

- When you get the program, if something seems confusing, post questions here or on the Keyboard forum.

 

- Remember that tutorials are helpful. I don't know what tutorials ship with the latest version, though.

 

- Review Screen Sets and Key Commands in the Logic documentation. These features make Logic very fast and responsive, and also customizable.

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Never tried DP, but the incredible package of high quality of soft synths and plug-ins that come with Logic are what keep me loyal.

 

The new features of Logic 7 are amazing, but watch out if you're thinking of making the leap right this moment, because I (and others) have found Logic 7.0 to be a bit buggy. Might wanna wait for the next update....

Just a pinch between the geek and chum

 

 

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I've always been an avid DP user, but I'd like to train myself on Logic to make myself more appealing to clients.

 

I think that you will be more appealing to clients by making more appealing music and NOT because you use a certain brand of software.

 

I played with the Logic 4.7 bundled with the Roland Studio Pack. I found it difficult to work with. I moved over to Sonar 2 which is great for MIDI and has some real HIP SYNTHS. Now that I'm using Cubase, I enjoy the fact that I can move sliders, open and close windows and scroll waveforms all WHILE PLAYING BACK or RECORDING. It is that much more efficient of CPU resources.

 

I have heard that the new Sonar is just as fast.

I don't think that Cubase is anything like Logic.

 

I never tried DP. What does "DP" stand for?

 

Dan

 

http://teachmedrums.com/forum/

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Originally posted by techristian:

What does "DP" stand for?

Digital Performer.It's by MOTU(Mark of the Unicorn)and it's been around for ages starting out as a midi only app like others of it's time,and it's currently Mac only.
"A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
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I made the switch to logic about 5 years ago, being a cubase user. I knew cubase inside out but fed up with the fact it kept crashing on me (this is back in 4.1 days, and I know it could have been me - but it was enough)

I wasn't looking forward the switch, but luckily , my supplier helped me setup the environment , and I could get on with the work. That doesn't mean he was an expert, after a week work with logic I knew more then he did.

 

so I second the advice, find someone who his familiar with it, get him to set you up and you're ready to go. then when you're ready to delve into the depth that his logic, do it in your own time.

Rotshtein Danny - Studio Engineer

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Visit DarlingNikkie.com To discover the sounds of "Darling Nikkie"(aka Jade 4U). . . .

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FWIW, i made the switch to logic a couple of months ago and i'm having a hell of a time getting my head around logic. it's sooo complicated. i've been married to performer since 1986 and this was a big change. really, the *only reason* i switched is because logic is the only program that lets me use VST plugins and my protools hardware at the same time via this ESB thing. other than that, i wouldn't see any reason to switch.
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