Alternative to QSC Touchmix 16 Mixer?

[MrVegas]

I bought the Touchmix a few years ago because I wanted to have a mixer that would record my home playing.  It's very simple.  I have two stereo keyboards, a microphone and occasionally will have a friend over with an acoustic guitar.  We will play music casually (like a gig in my basement with a few friends over) and always say "damn, I wish we had recorded that."  So I got the Touchmix and I don't like the way the recording function works, to me it is very confusing and frustrating.  

 

I want a mixer that has a "simple" recording capability that is clean and straight forward.   

 

I have heard that the Zoom L20-R might be a good alternative.

 

Looking for suggestions.

[The_Star_Guy]

Allen & Heath CQ-18T

 

https://www.allen-heath.com/hardware/cq/cq-18t/

 

I have run a TouchMix 8 for *years* at the TV station where I work, and while it does have limited recording capabilities, this mixer is the one that intrigues me the most as the best upgrade/replacement for the TouchMix series.  Planning to pick this up for my personal studio replacement.

 

 

 

 

[The_Star_Guy]

Actually, The CQ-18T might be overkill, looking at your requirements.     I also currently use a Tascam Model 12 in my home studio as well.

 

https://tascam.com/us/product/model_12?srsltid=AfmBOoppK2UsO3bVT9OvaUVrnejzC69IZGsx0fuTDsMYN140fRLoSVLU

 

 

[Stokely]

I always liked our Touchmix, which we used for gigs.  12 (Iirc) aux sends meant that everyone could have stereo auxes if they wanted them.   A screen as backup plan to tablets/wifi.

Our bandleader claimed there were issues with the power supply from what he was reading so when ours had such an issue he went with Behringer--first an xr18, now an x32.   The first requires a laptop to do recording, boo.  Our x32 has an sd expansion which would make it simple, but the bandleader hasn't installed it so no idea of how well it works.  The xr18 can be had very cheap, even if it may be overkill for home recording.  As I say the annoyance for gig recording is that it required me to bring a laptop, and wouldn't work as far as I can see by itself to do recording and mixing.

Honestly from what I've heard I wish they'd gone with A&H but ours has been fine so no complaints.  I'm not the one buying anyway so I shouldn't complain!  

 

[ProfD]

10 minutes ago, The_Star_Guy said:

I also currently use a Tascam Model 12 in my home studio as well.

Sold my Touchmix 16.  I'm thinking about getting a Tascam 12. Mainly because it's more tactile for both mixing and recording and playing audio files. 

 

43 minutes ago, MrVegas said:

I have heard that the Zoom L20-R might be a good alternative.

Determine whether or not that master channel strip is a deal-breaker.

 

I understand the rationale behind a master strip but I still prefer having knobbage on every channel Instead. 

 

The Tascam mixers combine old school tactility for mixing with digital recording capabilities.😎

[MrVegas]

holy crap, I never thought there would be 4 amazing responses within the first hour of posting the question.  Thank you!

 

Again, recording simplicity is the main thing above all.  On the QSC there was too much fiddling around with different arming settings, etc.  I just want a mixer where I can basically push a red "RECORD" button when it's time to start recording.  I know its not quite *that* simple, but it has to be simple.

 

I found a great guy on a Facebook QSC page and he spent an hour on the phone with me and I wrote all the steps down and STILL was friggin lost.

[Papa.J]

For small number the inputs you have, and the simplicity of just hitting record, you could consider the new Zoom LiveTrak L6

[Stokely]

Yeah that thing looks great.  One thing I wonder just glancing at it--if you want to mix what you recorded and save that as a stereo file, is that possible on the unit?  It does mention "your live mix".   I'd personally use the sd card stems in my DAW (it definitely says you can do that), but make sure you know what it can do (or can't) when it comes to generating a stereo file if you want it to.   Maybe even storing individual stems is more than you need in any case, it's always my preference but then I really enjoy the "mixing later" part  

Might be a bit of a squeeze on tracks if you want to go stereo acoustic plus 2 stereo keyboards (mono acoustic mic is likely just fine, or he might have a pickup).  I'm normally a fan of buying a bit larger than channels I know I'll need, but that's more of a gig philosophy.  And of course in a pinch you could submix the keyboards (some have inputs to do it right on the keyboard...)

[D. Gauss]

i own and use the A&H CQ-18T.  It is a super compact (much small than it appears in pics), powerful, wonderful mixer.  Recording 18 or more tracks to $7 dollar SD card is a simple push of a button. It might be overkill for what you want/need to do, but it is a serious quality piece of kit.

 

[cphollis]

The best experience I've had has been on the A&H SQ series (pricey!) yet super easy for recording a group, and then immediately playing it back.

 

When we rehearse/play, I grab both a FOH stereo mix as well as 16 individual channels to a flash drive.  Playback is routed through additional channels which are mirrored to the original, so you can mix playback separately without disturbing the input side.

 

Good news: you get "one button" recording and playback of the tracks.  The one wrinkle is that you can't do it using the app unless you config some of the "soft" mixer buttons to act as your transport.

 

I'm sure there are less expensive ways of doing this.  I had a TouchMix 16 for a while, hated it.  Ran with XR18 and X32 for a while, then upgraded to A&H.

 

If you're shopping real mixers, there's a new Behringer Wing Rack coming that's taking the place of the X32, making them dirt cheap these days.

 

Best of luck!

[kaptainkeys]

If you want something that is going to be super simple, the Tascam Model 24 and Zoom L20 have a very analogue-like workflow, especially the 24.  I've used both on various live sound gigs and it took me about 5 minutes to get used to each (coming from other analog and digital boards) just to get my head around the channel strips and routing.

[cphollis]

On 11/8/2024 at 3:36 PM, D. Gauss said:

i own and use the A&H CQ-18T.  It is a super compact (much small than it appears in pics), powerful, wonderful mixer.  Recording 18 or more tracks to $7 dollar SD card is a simple push of a button. It might be overkill for what you want/need to do, but it is a serious quality piece of kit.

 

Another awesome recommendation, but again likely more than you need.  This is the one I almost bought, but I needed more I/O.

 

Same guts as the SQ series, which is major goodness across the board: audio quality, workflow, FX, etc.  I see it showing up in small bands everywhere now, displacing the XR18 and X32 for people who don't want to rely on a tablet or laptop to mix, although it does that nicely as well.   

 

I'd use a decent SSD though if you're doing any number of tracks -- some of those cheapo ones are awfully slow.

[MrVegas]

I have been doing some research and watching some youtube on these units.  The CQ-18T looks kind of awesome but I'm wondering if the steps needed to arm it etc are too much like the TouchMix.  Probably not.  Maybe you just arm the tracks and hit record and you're done.

 

I kind of liked the sheer simplicity of the Zoom LiveTrak L6 but maybe it's too simple (limited).  So I looked at the Zoom L12 and might go with that one.  Anybody used the L12 for simple home recording?  

[D. Gauss]

6 minutes ago, MrVegas said:

 The CQ-18T looks kind of awesome but I'm wondering if the steps needed to arm it etc are too much like the TouchMix.  Probably not.  Maybe you just arm the tracks and hit record and you're done.

 

yup.  arm and hit record. 

actually, once you set up a scene and save it, the tracks will already be armed, so all you do is hit record.  also to address comment upthread,  the 32gb SD card they recommend (which costs $7 bucks on Scamazon) is plenty fast and solid. (i've recorded dozens of shows so far with no issues).  

 

fwiw, If you take the time to setup scenes, custom views etc. in advance, you really don't have to do much thinking on the gig.  i.e.  i play in several bands in different configurations (5 piece rock, 3 piece acoustic, etc).  I have scenes for each band stored.  At the gig, i call up the scene for whatever band, plug in the mics/DI's to the labeled inputs, and boom, i'm up and running and recording in a flash.  There's even a club i play that has a house PA.  It's always in some weird state of disarray that takes forever to sort out.  Now, I just bring my mixer, and tap into the house mains and monitors instead of using their mess of a system.

[marczellm]

I have a Soundcraft Ui24R mixer. It can record to a USB drive. It will record the main mix in stereo, or if your USB stick is fast enough, it can record the individual tracks.

[cphollis]

1 hour ago, MrVegas said:

I have been doing some research and watching some youtube on these units.  The CQ-18T looks kind of awesome but I'm wondering if the steps needed to arm it etc are too much like the TouchMix.  Probably not.  Maybe you just arm the tracks and hit record and you're done.

 

I kind of liked the sheer simplicity of the Zoom LiveTrak L6 but maybe it's too simple (limited).  So I looked at the Zoom L12 and might go with that one.  Anybody used the L12 for simple home recording?  

Assuming the CQ-18T is similar to the SQ5, the workflow goes like this:

1. Patch inputs to USB recorded tracks.  Default is Main L/R for 1 and 2, and then everyone's individual tracks.  I use 1-18.  There's a nice touchscreen GUI on the unit.

2. Two button presses to begin recording.  Meters show what is being recorded, what levels, etc.  A counter looks for audible I/O errors, which is quite useful.

3. For playback, patch the USB outputs into your mix, using additional soft mixer channels.  Can't use the ones you recorded on.  Select the name of the recording, press "play".  Full transport controls, etc.  Sort of a mini-DAW.

 

When it's time to playback for everyone, I can ride the mixer to bring everything into balance, as one would for a live gig.  Five seconds after finishing playing, we're listening to a mixed version of ourselves over room speakers, which is very cool.  If something was exceptionally good, I'll come back later and do a real mix for everyone.

 

If you don't have enough additional logical channels, you can setup a "record" scene and a "playback" scene, and quickly switch between the two.

 

I find the setup is way more robust and smoothly engineered than any other mixer I've tried, and I've tried several.  Again, this is the SQ5, I'm just assuming the CQ-18T works mostly the same way.  There ought to be a youtube video out there that shows this.

[bfields]

On 11/10/2024 at 10:11 AM, cphollis said:

I'd use a decent SSD though if you're doing any number of tracks -- some of those cheapo ones are awfully slow.

 

The SQ-19T says it'll record e.g. 24 tracks with 24 bit samples at 48kHz.  That comes out to

 

  (24 tracks) * (48000Hz) * (24 bits) / (8 bits/byte)

 

which is about 3.5 MB/s?  That isn't really all that much.  And you're just doing long sequential writes here.  (It's the ability to handle lots of little random IOs that justifies the price of SSDs.)

 

Always worth testing if you want to make sure, but stick to their recommendations and buy on price and I think you'll be fine.... (See  https://support.allen-heath.com/hc/en-gb/articles/20018693934481-CQ-How-to-choose-which-SD-card-to-use-with-CQ-consoles)

 

(And if you're streaming over USB to a laptop and recording with your DAW--a modern laptop SSD can manage 100s of MB/s, even an older HD is probably fine.)

[harmonizer]

I use a Zoom L-20 to mix and record our 7-person covers band, in which 6 different people sing at various times, and on some songs we have 2 of us alternating between playing a horn, plunking keys and singing. It has 18 totally independent inputs.

The Zoom L-20 can also produce 6 different monitor mixes.

I absolutely love this board.

 

You would want more than 6 inputs. You wrote:

"I have two stereo keyboards, a microphone and occasionally will have a friend over with an acoustic guitar".

That's 6 inputs already. Eventually your friend will want to sing, or someone will want to add a bass or drum player.... or something.

If you are successful eventually you will want to do more. So don't box yourself in.

 

In the Zoom family, there is a Zoom L-12.

I suggest the non-R flavor just because I am guessing you would want traditional board controls.

 

Whatever product you get, there will be some complexity, because multitrack recording has more to it. As does the later mixing you will do.

Multitrack recording and mixing is a more complicated (but more capable) world to operate in.

If you don't want to deal with any of this complexity, get a portable hand-held recorder such as a Zoom H4 or Zoom H6.

[cphollis]

2 hours ago, bfields said:

 

The SQ-19T says it'll record e.g. 24 tracks with 24 bit samples at 48kHz.  That comes out to

 

  (24 tracks) * (48000Hz) * (24 bits) / (8 bits/byte)

 

which is about 3.5 MB/s?  That isn't really all that much.  And you're just doing long sequential writes here.  (It's the ability to handle lots of little random IOs that justifies the price of SSDs.)

 

Always worth testing if you want to make sure, but stick to their recommendations and buy on price and I think you'll be fine.... (See  https://support.allen-heath.com/hc/en-gb/articles/20018693934481-CQ-How-to-choose-which-SD-card-to-use-with-CQ-consoles)

 

(And if you're streaming over USB to a laptop and recording with your DAW--a modern laptop SSD can manage 100s of MB/s, even an older HD is probably fine.)

You're looking at average transfer rates, not peak response times.  Speaking as an ex-storage guy, you don't always get predictable write response times on inexpensive flash storage.  And one delayed write can mess up an entire recording.

[D. Gauss]

17 hours ago, cphollis said:

Speaking as an ex-storage guy, you don't always get predictable write response times on inexpensive flash storage.  And one delayed write can mess up an entire recording.

 

Not a storage guy, but speaking as a A&H CQ-18T owner/user, as mentioned above, i use these $7 dollar SD-cards (one of the cards that A&H recommends) every single show and have never had an issue.

 

[cphollis]

That's a good find if it works well!  SanDisk is one of the better brands.  Problems can arise with the really cheapo memory sticks.

 

I hadn't checked storage prices in a few years, sheesh!  High quality flash storage (not SSD) now goes for ~$100/TB!    Mind boggling, it is.

 

I think the CQ-18T is a slick piece of gear, and I recommend it when asked.

[MrVegas]

Hey gurus,

 

I just hooked up my CQ 18-T and the recording function is relatively simple.  I just recorded a few 30 second sound bytes (using my Kronos), but when I remove the USB drive and plug it into my laptop for playback, it is BARELY audible.  I can hear it very faintly so I know the signal is getting there.  I think I have the gain on the Kronos set a a loud enough level but for playback it's a non-starter.  Any clues?

 

[MrVegas]

I think I made another big mistake.  Apparently I can easily record my keyboards to the USB drive, but when you try to play it back you can't hear it.  Are you shitting me?  I give up on recording.

 

Is there anybody on here that actually OWNS the CQ-18T?  I would love to pay you $$ for a zoom call to see if I need to return this or try to make it work.

 

[D. Gauss]

yes i own one.  before you freak out, take a step back, take a deep breath and go patiently through your signal flow.  there are input meters on the CQ-18T. make sure you are recording at a proper level via the meters.  As for playback on your laptop, that's another can of worms to doublecheck.  Is the laptop speaker gain all the way up?  is the gain control for the app that is playing back the audio also up?   Also, (and you only need to do this once), you need to make sure you set the proper point in the signal chain where the CQ taps the audio to record to USB.  There are severeal options, but I usually tap right off the preamp gain (pre fader and EQ).  This way no matter what is done to the mixer, your recording isn't affected.  i.e. turning down the fader doesn't affect the recorded volume.  It's a POWERFUL mixer.  As i mentioned upthread, once you take some initial time to set it up correctly, it's really easy and you won't have to think about it again.

[cphollis]

There is a modest learning curve involved with the CQ -- or any similar digital mixer.  A bit of frustration is normal.  Short 'how to' videos on Youtube are very helpful.  If you get frustrated and change horses, you'll have to do it all over again with another piece of gear.  As @D. Gauss says, once you get it configured properly it all works brilliantly.

 

 

[MrVegas]

9 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

yes i own one.  before you freak out, take a step back, take a deep breath and go patiently through your signal flow.  there are input meters on the CQ-18T. make sure you are recording at a proper level via the meters.  As for playback on your laptop, that's another can of worms to doublecheck.  Is the laptop speaker gain all the way up?  is the gain control for the app that is playing back the audio also up?   Also, (and you only need to do this once), you need to make sure you set the proper point in the signal chain where the CQ taps the audio to record to USB.  There are severeal options, but I usually tap right off the preamp gain (pre fader and EQ).  This way no matter what is done to the mixer, your recording isn't affected.  i.e. turning down the fader doesn't affect the recorded volume.  It's a POWERFUL mixer.  As i mentioned upthread, once you take some initial time to set it up correctly, it's really easy and you won't have to think about it again.

 

Yes, the laptop speaker gain and playback app gain are turned all the way up.

 

I'm not clear on what you mean by  "where the CQ taps the audio to record to USB" or "I usually tap right off the preamp gain (pre fader and EQ)."

 

Can you please clarify with step by step instructions?

 

[MrVegas]

Also D.Gauss, could you do me a huge favor and try recording from a keyboard into the CQ on a USB thumb drive.  I would love to know if you had the same experience of not being able to hear the recording.

[ProfD]

On 11/8/2024 at 11:41 AM, The_Star_Guy said:

Actually, The CQ-18T might be overkill, looking at your requirements.

The CQ-18T seems like a sideways move from the TouchMix. May be just as frustrating based on the posts above.

 

I just picked up a Tascam Model 12.  Took it out the box.  Powered up.  Codec Error.      

 

Brand new mixer DOA.  It's going back to Guitar Center.  Not sure if I want a replacement Model 12 or something else.😎

 

[D. Gauss]

10 hours ago, MrVegas said:

 

Yes, the laptop speaker gain and playback app gain are turned all the way up.

 

I'm not clear on what you mean by  "where the CQ taps the audio to record to USB" or "I usually tap right off the preamp gain (pre fader and EQ)."

 

Can you please clarify with step by step instructions?

 

 

 

page 69 in the manual.  you want the source "post preamp."  (it most likey already is, as i think that's the default)   

 

 

 

page 65 in the manual adjust the gain til you get a good healthy level.  for now make sure auto gain and level assist are off.

 

[MrVegas]

D.Gauss,

 

Thanks for your help and pictures of pages in the manual.  I will do a better job of checking the manual going forward.