Why Casio WK 3200 is a classic/ possible upgrade?

[mrk7421]

I have a Casio WK 3200 and I love it!!!! A big reason is the drawbar organ feature. I get a very acceptable 80800000 drawbar setting from it and also a very good slow chorale Leslie sound from the stereo phaser DSP setting. I have gotten a lot of practice miles using just this . I am not wild about the percussion volume level which makes it virtually useless....but I am  wondering if a percussion sound could be added using a sim card and the layer function  . There are many other things  about this WK series I find useful including it's 5 pin midi out .....but for now I am just wondering if there is some way to add percussion via layer function . WK3200 kicks ants!!!

[mrk7421]

I also find the Casio 200 series useful because of it's 038 Dyno EP but the 200 has nowhere near the editing capability of the previous WK3000..... particularly drawbar organ.

 

 

[Shamanzarek]

For many years the WK3800 even with some of its shortcomings has been an essential piece of gear for me. I initially bought it on sale for $300 at Sam Ash for home practice. I soon discovered some capabilities that are not available on any other keyboard I know of at any price and perfectly fit in with what I do. The Organ section alone makes owning this keyboard worthwhile but it goes well beyond just organs. The Tonewheel model is useable but there are much better options available. What really sets it apart from anything else is being able to modify the organ through the Synth section. This gives you control over Attack and Release as well as Filter Cutoff, Resonance, and Modulation so you can simulate many other types of organs besides just Tonewheels. Plus the Effects section can be applied for even more options. On the Nord Stage 3 you can apply Synth functions to the Sample section but not the Piano or Organ section all of which the Casio can do. The WK series could have been a versatile do-it-all keyboard to surpass Nord with a few upgrades like better keyboard action and improved quality of some sounds. Casio did make some improvements while taking away some functions with the WK7600. The WK7600 is still available but Casio hasn't bothered to update the WK series in well over 10 years. It is unfortunate that Casio could come up with a brilliant piece like this and not take it to a fully professional level. I doubt if most of the novice musicians who were the target market for these keyboards ever found these hidden capabilities which are not documented in the manual.

 

As far as increasing Percussion level you might try layering a Tonewheel organ sound with another Tonewheel with just the Percussion activated and balance the levels of of the two organ sounds as desired. This would also allow you to have both Percussion harmonics available at the same time. Also it might be possible to have the Rotary simulation turned off for the Percussion-only organ sound which might give it enhanced clarity. This will reduce polyphony in half but should still be usable.

[Baldwin Funster]

I used a 3800 before I was serious enough to plunk down the bucks for an actual clonewheel. If only the exterior wasn't so bulbous. If they were shaped like a typical roland i could have used it at gigs without the looks of disdain coming at me. I have used prosumer gear instead of progear at times but sometimes people listen with their eyes and hold back their enthusiasm if the gear is considered toyish.

[kaptainkeys]

20 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:

I used a 3800 before I was serious enough to plunk down the bucks for an actual clonewheel. If only the exterior wasn't so bulbous. If they were shaped like a typical roland i could have used it at gigs without the looks of disdain coming at me. I have used prosumer gear instead of progear at times but sometimes people listen with their eyes and hold back their enthusiasm if the gear is considered toyish.

It's for this exact reason that I wish that Casio would take the amazing technologies they've created and put them into a proper chassis that looked like something a pro could use on stage.  If they put the hex layer synth and an updated version of their tonewheel engine with a good leslie combined with some great APs and EPs into a nice looking chassis that a pro wouldn't be embarrassed to gig with and add in a front panel with tons of real-time controls with they could seriously compete the Nord Stage and Yamaha YC.  Throw in a basic sequencer and 8 or 16 zones and they're well into Yamaha MODX and Roland Fantom-0 territory.  I'd buy one.

[The Piano Man]

Totally agree. The Roland sleek black box approach is the way to go. I feel the same about the Dexibell range, albeit they look better than Casios.

 

The closest Casio came to a decent design, in my opinion, was the old PX3 and the PX350m stage pianos.

 

Their 61 and 76 key models all look horrendous.

 

 

[Shamanzarek]

The WK7600 does have the black box professional look and from what I can tell from YouTube videos improved acoustic pianos in particular which was a major shortcoming of the 3xxx models. It has 9 sliders for the Tonewheel organ and can get all drawbar positions rather the 4 on the 3xxx series. I have been interested in the 7600 but have never seen one in a store where I could try it. I have read the manual but can't tell for sure if it will do all the things I love about the 3xxx series. They did eliminate the Resonance in the Synth section and replaced the Modulation wheel with an on/off button. I like the Modulation wheel for setting vibrato depth on the fly.

 

Another flash of brilliance from Casio was the XW-P1. This a do-it-all keyboard with a very capable Synth section including Mono Mode aimed at a more professional market. I don't know if it can do everything the 3xxx series does but I would have bought one if they had a 76-key option. The XW-P1 has been discontinued for a few years.

[stoken6]

6 hours ago, kaptainkeys said:

If they put the hex layer synth and an updated version of their tonewheel engine with a good leslie combined with some great APs and EPs

100% agree. I'll even excuse them a good leslie (rotary sim is hard to get right), provided you can pan outputs. Casio's AP/EP are pretty good to start with, especially if you compare to something like a Roland VR09. There's an open goal right in front of them.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[The Piano Man]

47 minutes ago, Shamanzarek said:

The WK7600 does have the black box professional look and from what I can tell from YouTube videos improved acoustic pianos in particular which was a major shortcoming of the 3xxx models. It has 9 sliders for the Tonewheel organ and can get all drawbar positions rather the 4 on the 3xxx series. I have been interested in the 7600 but have never seen one in a store where I could try it. I have read the manual but can't tell for sure if it will do all the things I love about the 3xxx series. They did eliminate the Resonance in the Synth section and replaced the Modulation wheel with an on/off button. I like the Modulation wheel for setting vibrato depth on the fly.

 

Another flash of brilliance from Casio was the XW-P1. This a do-it-all keyboard with a very capable Synth section including Mono Mode aimed at a more professional market. I don't know if it can do everything the 3xxx series does but I would have bought one if they had a 76-key option. The XW-P1 has been discontinued for a few years.

not sure I agree about the black box brilliance. It still looks like a lame bulky arranger to me. 
 

Lose the speakers, keep it all black, make the case sleeker, add an internal power supply and they could be on to something.

 

It’s not really their thing though I guess. Casio is more about calculators, watches and fun keyboards for the family. No doubt they have improved their sounds and features a lot over the years and I know some really like the PX5s.

[SteveCoscia]

1 hour ago, Shamanzarek said:

The WK7600 does have the black box professional look and from what I can tell from YouTube videos improved acoustic pianos in particular which was a major shortcoming of the 3xxx models. It has 9 sliders for the Tonewheel organ and can get all drawbar positions rather the 4 on the 3xxx series. I have been interested in the 7600 but have never seen one in a store where I could try it. I have read the manual but can't tell for sure if it will do all the things I love about the 3xxx series. They did eliminate the Resonance in the Synth section and replaced the Modulation wheel with an on/off button. I like the Modulation wheel for setting vibrato depth on the fly.

 

Another flash of brilliance from Casio was the XW-P1. This a do-it-all keyboard with a very capable Synth section including Mono Mode aimed at a more professional market. I don't know if it can do everything the 3xxx series does but I would have bought one if they had a 76-key option. The XW-P1 has been discontinued for a few years.

 

In 2010, I bought Casio's WK-7500 (predecessor to the WK-7600) for composition and arrangements.  For about $500, it was very capable.  In time, and thanks to a Mike Martin YouTube video about the Pattern Sequencer), I started creating arrangements.  The learning curve was steep due to all the button-pressing and menu diving - much of which had to be written down and/or memorized to keep projects moving.  The WK-7500 Pattern Sequencer is a powerful and creative tool and I created a boatload of arrangements.  Since then I bought Casio's MZ-X500, with a more powerful Pattern Sequencer, without all the button-pressing.  

 

At 70 years old, one of my great pleasures is sequencing old prog albums from the 1970s.  One of my most recent projects is a compilation of Tony Banks' keyboard parts from the Genesis Wind and Wuthering album.  It's fun to lay down the backing tracks (drums, bass, guitars, etc.) and then wail away on my synth or accompany the backing tracks with my piano.  Sequencing songs with compound time signatures is possible, sometimes I need to get creative to make the square pegs fit into the round holes ( I usually do this on paper with much notation).  I have also sequenced jazz standards with horn and saxophone arrangements.  All in all, boatloads of fun.   

[The Piano Man]

Fun is the key word.

 

Having said that, I do think Casio’s sounds and keyboard action are now at a level that could sit within a more “pro” board with sleek black case and internal power supply etc. 

 

Would be great to see it, whether an 88 note weighted board or a 76 key semi weighted. 

[Shamanzarek]

For a limited time the Casio WK7600 is on sale at Sweetwater, Guitar Center, Amazon, B & H for $349. That is $100 less than the regular price it has been listed at for many years. This could mean it is about to be discontinued after over 10 years.

[Shamanzarek]

It seems to rarely come up for sale these days but there was an 88-key WK keyboard called the WK8000. This seems to be functionally equivalent to the WK3800 but lacks the floppy disk drive found on this and other WK3xxx keyboards. It also has USB MIDI rather than the 5-pin MIDI found on earlier WK3xxx models.

 

http://arch.casio-intl.com/asia-mea/en/emi/past/high_grade/wk8000.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Piano Man]

45 minutes ago, Shamanzarek said:

It seems to rarely come up for sale these days but there was an 88-key WK keyboard called the WK8000. This seems to be functionally equivalent to the WK3800 but lacks the floppy disk drive found on this and other WK3xxx keyboards. It also has USB MIDI rather than the 5-pin MIDI found on earlier WK3xxx models.

 

http://arch.casio-intl.com/asia-mea/en/emi/past/high_grade/wk8000.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a ghastly looking monstrosity 

[mrk7421]

I really don't care what Casios look like.  Since I started this thread let me repeat....I get good drawbar settings on WK3000 series organs. Good 888000000 and good 80800000 settings ( Casio used 3s and 2s) and some upper register variation as long as they aren't too loud. The thing that I don't like is the loud percussion  If there was a percussion sound that could be layered in using the layer function that might be a solution. As I recall Casio offered upgradable sounds for these....can that still be done? As in.....having second or third organ  harmonics for layering....or am I crazy?

[David Emm]

1 hour ago, The Piano Man said:

What a ghastly looking monstrosity 

 

Keyboards have a stone in their shoes out of the gate. Everyone else can hop around, but YOU have to sit in front of a couple of planks and focus, lest ye emit clams.

 

Some decisions make me feel as if the designers were drunk when the wundertoy was finalized. That includes some inscrutable software choices. Logic's physical modeler Sculpture is a potent tool, but it strikes me like an H. R. Giger painting. I don't want to have to squint that hard to play a synth. Phooey!   

I agree that despite some great-sounding instruments, Casio has never quite cracked the nut of the ergonomics. We all play the bad-keybed horn, but there's a place in proverbial Hell for slick cases that squirt out of your hands, cutesy angles where the jacks are and dark legends on dark backgrounds.

 

OTOH, while the GUI is not exactly inviting, the PX-5s is much closer to the right mark. Its a first cousin to being a Thing of Beauty. 🤔

[mate stubb]

That WK-8000 is giving me Alesis Fusion vibes.

 

[AROIOS]

22 hours ago, The Piano Man said:

What a ghastly looking monstrosity 

From the same designer:

[The Piano Man]

I guess we all have our own idea of what looks good.

 

I think the sleek black box is the way to go. Something like a Roland XP80 or Korg X2.

 

The original Kurzweil Artis 88 prototype looked good too (the unreleased all black version)

 

In modern boards, I think the original Korg Grandstage 88 is tough to beat.

[Shamanzarek]

As of today it looks like the Casio WK7600 has officially been discontinued after about a 12 year run. After the WK3xxx series was discontinued Casio came out with the WK7500. Within a year or so this was upgraded to the WK7600. I had been interested in this model as I still make good use of the WK3800 as a cheap do everything keyboard that in some ways outperforms keyboards costing a few thousand dollars. I never found a WK7600 in a store to try out but was was happy with the 3800. The initial price was $499 and then a few years later the price was lowered to $449 where it has stayed ever since. A few dealers may still be listing it at this price. Early in November I noticed Sweetwater, Amazon, and B & H Photo had lowered the price to $349. Suspecting that it may soon be discontinued I have been keeping watch. A couple days ago Amazon was down to one left in stock so I placed an order. Now the other two dealers are no longer listing it. Who knows if Casio is going to come up with a new WK model but as old as it is the 7600 seems to cover nearly everything my Stage 3 can do and likely does some things like splits/layers better. I will be using this for recording, rehearsals and some gigs.

[Shamanzarek]

Amazon canceled my order for the Casio WK7600. The other dealers who were selling it for $329 are no longer listing it saying it has been discontinued. A few dealers are still listing it for the normal $449 price. Amazon is listing some at $429 apparently from another supplier with four in stock. Going to hold out and see if any other close out deals come up.

[AnotherScott]

On 11/11/2024 at 2:27 PM, The Piano Man said:

I guess we all have our own idea of what looks good.

 

I think the sleek black box is the way to go.

 

I dislike black, especially--as is often the case--when it has controls (sliders/knobs/buttons) that are black as well. It's just an extra impediment to easy operation when a board is under less than optimal stage lighting conditions, or on a lower tier with much light being blocked by a board above, or even in a home environment that has typical "warm" home lighting. Plus the light print on black background for legends are generally not as easy to read as dark-on-light.

[Shamanzarek]

A couple of days ago I ordered a WK7600 described as having damaged packaging from Amazon for $307.00. Maybe I should have waited as I have now found it listed at Roxy Music in La Porte, Indiana for $299.99 with free shipping. This would be a significant upgrade for any Casio fan still using a WK3xxx model.

[mrk7421]

Just to go back a bit my dream would be for Casio to offer percussion sounds that could be layered into the drawbar tones. Just a wish.....I think at one time they offered new tones downloadable for these. I am not sure what Casio has done since with programmable drawbars but I continue to get a lot of mileage from mine as a lower manual/ 808000000 sound .Too bad the percussion sucks!!!!

[Shamanzarek]

To make Percussion stand out you can lower some of the drawbar levels. The WK3xxx has only 3 levels and off for drawbar control which doesn't allow for much fine adjustment as with full 8-degree/off drawbars. One thing that the Casio can do that no other clonewheel can do is apply synth functions to the organ sounds. Possibly by applying Filter Cutoff and/or Filter Resonance the Percussion sound can be enhanced. The Casio is also capable of layering two organ sounds so one layer could be straight or enhanced Percussion-only layered on top of another more complete organ sound also having Percussion enabled. The Percussion-only layer can be slightly detuned against the main organ w/Percussion patch which might beef up the Percussion sound even more.

The great thing about the WK keyboards is that you can almost always find a way to create the sound you want. Casio has sporadically dabbled in the professional market but they really dropped the ball by not making a fully professional version of the WK. The WK series has finally come to an end after being first introduced in 2003.

[SteveCoscia]

17 hours ago, mrk7421 said:

Just to go back a bit my dream would be for Casio to offer percussion sounds that could be layered into the drawbar tones. Just a wish.....

 

While we're discussing Casio dreams and wishes.... I'd like to see a 76 key MZ-X500 with AIR Sound Source and no speakers (no pads either).  More of professional studio workstation for sequencing and arranging.  Regarding the pads, I must be too old to grasp their utility.  There's a brief video about the pads on YouTube - more of an overview than a deep dive.  I might understand if Casio created an in-depth video with examples of useable applications.

[Shamanzarek]

I received my WK7600 today. When I first started playing it the lowest C key didn't work. I worked the key a bit and nothing so I was ready to send it back but not before finding what this keyboard can and can't do. After a few minutes of playing the C started working. Then I noticed the cap on the highest drawbar slider was missing. Not a huge deal. Will search the packaging and see if it fell off.

 

One of the good things is the acoustic pianos are much improved and there are several more variations over the WK3xxx series. Most of the pianos seem to be bright sounding with abrupt velocity switching. I will have to see if I can get used to it. There are also several more variations of Harpsichords, Clavinets, and EPs. Also a good variety of Brass, Strings, and Synths. The WK3800 has a killer fat Sax sound which isn't to be found here and the 3800 also has a Synth lead sound that nailed the All My Love synth solo sound which is not here. That same sound with some modification can also nail the Clavioline solo on Runaway.

 

The drawbar organ section is somewhat improved. Besides having nine physical drawbar slider it has the full range of drawbar positions. The upper drawbar harmonics on the 3xxx don't sound quite right but are much better here. It has a dedicated switches for Rotary Fast/Slow, Second Percussion, and Third Percussion. This allows the Second and Third Percussion to be used simultaneously. Though neither will win any awards so far I like the Rotary sim on the WK3800 better. The big disappointment is the organ section can't be modified by the synth parameters. There are a lot of organs in the sampled instrument section which can be modified but none are suitable for my purposes.

 

For me this will twelve year old instrument will not not replace the even older WK3800. I suppose I can probably find some use for it if I decide to keep it. It's a mystery how Casio over 20 years ago devised some unique features no other keyboard has to this day and implemented them on a novice instrument whose target users would never even know were there.