Keyboard Gear--Nostalgia and Romanticism and New Technology

[YashN]

15 minutes ago, ProfD said:

The good news is Osmose has MPE.  Unfortunately, it does not have VAST.😁😎

 

Then there is what Osmose has internally and whether V.A.S.T. also has it in its depths.

 

I might know a thing or two about that.

 

Wicked Pairing indeed.

[Ibarch]

17 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

E-mu had some sort of magic dust to sprinkle. I have several of Digital Sound Factory's sets of same and they're quite useful. I left their Virtuoso orchestral set in the dust when Spitfire appeared, but the rest have held up well. The XL-1 has a dated techno aroma to it, although its still a viable grab bag with some useful surprises in it. I had a Proteus-1 that ate it in a friend's garage fire, but I still play a Planet Earth module. I recommend the Proteus 2000 line as excellent Synthesizer Helper. Their gear can really lift a mix.

 

I loved the bleep out of my Roland Juno-1. It was the best of my simpler synths. TAL makes a good version of it called TAL-PHA, with MPE, aftertouch, microtuning & effects. It deserves a look. https://tal-software.com/products/tal-pha

 

Have acquired a couple of cheap racks, the Roland U-220 and Kawai K1r for no other reason than to wallow in the nostalgic sounds of my youth in the late 80s. E-MU is next on the list. 

 

Which of the originals are best to look out for, or should I jump ahead to the proteus 2000?

[kpl1228]

On 11/2/2024 at 10:32 AM, CEB said:

My true nostalgia lies in rig amplification.  Today’s IEM or class D powered speaker goto options are rather quaint.   Our old rigs were awesome.  My stage amplification in 1988 literally blows away what we use today.  We moved a lot of air in the 1900’s.  Typically our stage rigs were huge dual 3 way passive cabs, Crown power amps, rack mixer and some out board effects units for verb and delay.   A loud pedal tone was spiritual experience.   
 

The downside was we had to have that much amplification to hear ourselves but I loved the sound checks.   We do gig smarter today. Shows aren’t any quieter but FOH does the heavy lifting.  

I miss the true power of a power amp and a two-way 15!

[Stokely]

Ugh, I personally do not.  I've never heard myself near as clearly as I do with in-ear monitors (in stereo), and as an added bonus I go home without my ears ringing.

Granted if I'm forced to use a mono wedge, it's jarring and you have the old problem of the damn keyboard(s) blocking the highs.  I really dislike a wedge hitting me only in one ear... I do bring a powered monitor to those gigs in case I decide to use an "amp" but it's been a few years since I needed it.  A lot of the sound companies let you connect up your ipad to their router to control your own mix, so I just put keys in my wedge if they are ok with it.

I definitely have some luddite-ish (is that a word) tendencies but in no way were my old rigs even in the ballpark with what I can bring out now, and with way less work to set up (thinking here mostly about my old A-frame stand).  Same certainly applies to PAs.  I can't think of a single thing I miss from the old days compared to now, other than being thinner and having hair  

[kpl1228]

Nostalgia drives a lot for me at 60 years of age when looking at my wish list, but I rarely pull the trigger on old stuff, with the exception of stuff you can't get in any way close to it, such as Invisible stands. Those are truly the best for me and will be forever.

All I do is lust after an OB-X8, but it's because the Oberheim OB series was all I wanted as a young man. 

Not sure i'd have any real use for it, especially when I can get 85% of it on newer boards I have, and with effects to boot. No one out there would know but me.

Something tells me I'd play it for a weekend and get my nostalgia fix and sell it, which probably explains the number of used OB-X8's out there already.

Nostalgia is a very, very powerful thing, be it with cars or food or places or musical instruments.

[David Emm]

4 hours ago, Ibarch said:

Have acquired a couple of cheap racks, the Roland U-220 and Kawai K1r for no other reason than to wallow in the nostalgic sounds of my youth in the late 80s. E-MU is next on the list. 

Which of the originals are best to look out for, or should I jump ahead to the proteus 2000?

 

My basic opinion is to go for the 2000 proper. Its a serious Swiss army knife. Some sounds are Meh, but many are Wow. Things like E-mu's XL-1 or their B-3 are quite usable, but tend to sound dated next to more refined modern options. It depends on personal style and your willingness to EQ/effect the goods. Their Virtuoso orchestra sounds downright dusty now, but no one touched it back then. The techno tool chest XL-1 perks up a lot when you add a bit  of harmonic exciter or expander. The hardware is rather elderly now, so do consider that. Digital Sound Factory is the place to go for E-mu sounds in several formats, but you don't get the arpeggiators or amazing loops of the modules.

 

BTW, E-mu had one of the most potent, advanced modulation matrixes ever seen until recent times. It was immense, but with no software editor as we now know them and a modest display, programming it was a real ship-in-a-bottle ordeal. One guarantee: adding appropriate E-mu sounds under brighter modern ones lifts them to some enjoyable heights. A Proteus 2000 could make a serious pal for a U-220.

[Sundown]

On 11/3/2024 at 6:56 PM, David Emm said:

I loved the bleep out of my Roland Juno-1. It was the best of my simpler synths. TAL makes a good version of it called TAL-PHA, with MPE, aftertouch, microtuning & effects. It deserves a look. https://tal-software.com/products/tal-pha

 

I’ll have to get my hands on that TAL-PHA this Christmas. The demos sound great. I use TAL’s chorus plug-in as my go-to in the studio.

 

Todd

[Thethirdapple]

of the several threads where this could be posted, nostalgia seemed to fit best

 

that “marketing” neglects the WHOLE truth is nothing new, yet this is a fun romp thru yesteryear 

And it is ironic that the magazines of yesteryear ate the “content” of today with embedded ads and self promotion.

its a racket any way you hack it

 

 

 

 

 

PEACE

_
_
_

[J.F.N.]

I love my KORG Prologue, partly because it takes me into Prophet VS territory, a synth I always loved, had access to but didn't own, the keybed was really terrible but for the rest the VS was Synth Engineering at its finest back then (for us that had no cash for a Synclavier that is...). I experience the Prologue having that X-factor kind of mojo, it's a limited synth in many ways, but thanks to the multi engine oscillator it becomes unlimited and opens up for very creative sound creation. And 16 voices is good, less would have been too few, I think there should be a law that Polyphonic Synths can never have less than 16, and are recommended at least 24, voices!

 

What I don't love about my Prologue, is that KORG missed that we players do enjoy Aftertouch, standard good old channel pressure would have been fine, though it seems as overall, looking at KORG's releases the last years, they've not understood this at all and miss it all the time.

 

 

[Demonseed]

I agree 100%

 

And I disagree. 🥶

 

I’m sorta living this right now. I have a Hammond A100 and Leslie. When I used to gig with the A100, I figured out how to move it all by myself. Even up/down a flight of stairs. (My 62yo back has no interest in that anymore lol) But even then I did not use the Leslie out on the road. I used a MotionSound Pro3T (along with a Marshall half stack for low rotor sim). 
 

So now I just acquired the Yamaha CK61. Drawbars, crosstalk, Leslie sim. Sounds good enough for now. And has representations of all the other classic sounds, along with the ability to connect to more sounds. Small and light - so much so that it can run on a handful of AA batteries. Wonderful!

 

I will eventually get that Hammond restored though. Because even though I’m satisfied with the CK61, there is something missing. And it’s not nostalgia. Anyone who ordinarily plays piano on an electronic instrument, and then one day sits down to play a fine grand piano, knows what I’m talking about. There’s a feeling, and a sonic experience, there that cannot be had playing your Casio or Nord. It’s a massive thing that you can “dig into”, and it won’t budge. It’s not sound coming out of that speaker over there; it’s a sonic presence that encompasses the entire space.
 

And with the Leslie, it’s not just a tremolo with a bit of phase shift. Those rotating horns actually whip the air, changing the sonic experience in ways no mere electronic emulation can quite touch no matter how good. Just like the grand piano, it’s more an encompassing omnidirectional sonic presence than mere sound from a speaker over there.

 

With all the other ‘classic’ keys, I always wanted emulations instead of the real thing. Spindly legs, curved tops on which stacking another instrument was precarious, dangling magnetic tape strips? No thanks. And the inventors of the Mellotron would likely never have bothered had more modern sampling methods been developed.

 

But that does bring me to one of my pet peeves about modern gear. Why are these ‘slab’ keyboards designed such that you still cannot stack another board on top - even if they aren’t loaded with knobs and buttons? That was the best thing about my Rhodes (Roland) MK80. 
 

Last point: the nature of nostalgia. When I was growing up, 50s nostalgia was big. HappyDays was on tv, kids were abandoning the hippie thing and becoming greasers. But those kids had never experienced the 1950s! How can you be nostalgic for something you never experienced? So it’s not tied to getting old.

[ProfD]

16 minutes ago, Demonseed said:

...there is something missing. And it’s not nostalgia. Anyone who ordinarily plays piano on an electronic instrument, and then one day sits down to play a fine grand piano, knows what I’m talking about. There’s a feeling, and a sonic experience, there that cannot be had playing your Casio or Nord.

There's definitely a compromise.

 

Most gigging musicians may not be in a position to backline an acoustic piano or  electromechanical KB or synthesizer.

 

Even those of us who grew up playing and/or gigging with the real deal KBs also remembers the limitations of the old gear, maintenance and logistics of moving it around. 

 

Newer KB technology resolves the challenges of old gear. The sounds get better over time. The feeling is harder to replicate. 

 

Today's KBs encompass a reasonable facsimile of every sound a musician needs in order to play and/or compose music.

 

Newer gear may not provide the same experience (feeling) of vintage gear but it allows musicians to get the job done as it relates to music. It's a compromise.😎

[Demonseed]

6 hours ago, ProfD said:

There's definitely a compromise.

 

Newer KB technology resolves the challenges of old gear. The sounds get better over time. The feeling is harder to replicate. 

Today's KBs encompass a reasonable facsimile of every sound a musician needs in order to play and/or compose music.

 

 

Yes, there are advantages to the newer tech. With the Hammond in the CK61, each keybed can have its own effects. So you can have chorus and Leslie on the top rank, and be playing bass Hammond with no effects on the bottom rank. This is actually something I desired back in the day… and am digging now.

[AROIOS]

8 hours ago, Thethirdapple said:

of the several threads where this could be posted, nostalgia seemed to fit best

 

that “marketing” neglects the WHOLE truth is nothing new, yet this is a fun romp thru yesteryear 

And it is ironic that the magazines of yesteryear ate the “content” of today with embedded ads and self promotion.

its a racket any way you hack it...

He nails it on the absurdity of reading "words" about sounds in the old days. That was the single biggest source of bullshit, delusion, snake oil, and wishful thinking on sound back then.
 

Actually, it's still the single biggest source of bullshit, delusion, snake oil and wishful thinking on sound today.
 

"Talking about sound is like dancing about architecture."  -- Zappa

[SteveCoscia]

"Nostalgia" in this post's title was a serendipitous find. 

 

Three days ago, I stumbled upon a multiple-page and elaborate FB post featuring the Crumar Composer (early 1980s). This keyboard eluded me back in the day - I don't remember seeing them anywhere. 

 

The FB post's PC boards, Curtis 3330, 3320 and 3310 filter chips and the panel layout sucked me in.  Then I searched YT and found two nice demos.  The Crumar Composer is both a mono synth and a poly synth - each with its own resonant filters.  Splitting the keyboard enables full, discrete filter articulation for both sides (unlike TOD articulation).  The sound is warm and much to my liking. 

 

Wouldn't mind having one for nostalgia sake.

 

Here is a YT link: Crumar Composer

 

 

[ABECK]

21 hours ago, AROIOS said:

He nails it on the absurdity of reading "words" about sounds in the old days. That was the single biggest source of bullshit, delusion, snake oil, and wishful thinking on sound back then.
 

Actually, it's still the single biggest source of bullshit, delusion, snake oil and wishful thinking on sound today.
 

"Talking about sound is like dancing about architecture."  -- Zappa

Took the words out of my mouth.  Our ability to determine how any piece of gear was completely dependent upon the ability of the writer to translate the qualities of what they were hearing to words.  As long as we all agreed on what "creamy", or "juicy" really means, we were all just guessing.  I will say there was something nice about looking at gear pics, reading reviews and building a fantasy in our heads of how something will sound and what it could do for us as musicians.  It seems bizarre now, but this is how it was. 

[brenner13]

OT a bit, but I so miss Keyboard Magazine; particularly the Sound Page era. I was a teenager with crappy gear, but remember the excitement and anticipation for the next issue while dreaming of the next great synthesizer and discovering a new artist and interviews with my heroes. 

[Demonseed]

4 minutes ago, brenner13 said:

OT a bit, but I so miss Keyboard Magazine; particularly the Sound Page era. I was a teenager with crappy gear, but remember the excitement and anticipation for the next issue while dreaming of the next great synthesizer and discovering a new artist and interviews with my heroes. 

This ad stood out for me back then. Had such a prog vibe; it was amusing to find out that most of the folks using them were new wave.