Class compliant sound module options

[Paul Woodward]

Have a funny feeling we covered this before but..

I have had several boards (YC, CK, Keystage) that can integrate USB Midi/audio. I nearly bought the Roland SH4D thinking it would be fun to turn the Keystage into a 'synth', but turns out it's not class compliant. Roland D05 was another idea to make a modern D50 but seems Roland just don't like support this.

Of course, an iPad or laptop are the obvious solution, but I wondered what small modules/expanders out there can be integrated with such boards over USB without needing drivers...

[AROIOS]

Most synths and controllers aren't "USB hosts", that means simply connecting two class compliant devices won't automatically enable you to use one of them as a "master". You'll still need a usb midi host box.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

I wondered what small modules/expanders out there can be integrated with such boards over USB without needing drivers...

 

I think Yamaha Seqtrak and Dexibel SX7/SX8 are class compliant for MIDI and audio. (Some others are at least class compliant for MIDI.)

[Paul Woodward]

26 minutes ago, AROIOS said:

Most synths and controllers aren't "USB hosts", that means simply connecting two class compliant devices won't automatically enable you to use one of them as a "master". You'll still need a usb midi host box.

The Keystage, in my example, has an audio interface so surely any device that does USB Midi/audio without needing drivers, should work.

[Paul Woodward]

40 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I think Yamaha Seqtrak and Dexibel SX7/SX8 are class compliant for MIDI and audio. (Some others are at least class compliant for MIDI.)

Interesting. I wonder if the hardware has any advantages over an iPad and apps, other than hands on tactility.

[Garubi]

13 hours ago, AROIOS said:

Most synths and controllers aren't "USB hosts", that means simply connecting two class compliant devices won't automatically enable you to use one of them as a "master". You'll still need a usb midi host box.

@Paul Woodward as said by @AROIOS if the module / expander is not an USB Host you can't "drive" it from a keyboard: being it class compliant or not.

 

The GSI Gemini I own has a USB Host port so you can play it with a keyboard connected over USB. There could be others... but be sure to check if they have USB Host functionality.

 

[AnotherScott]

57 minutes ago, Garubi said:

@Paul Woodward as said by @AROIOS if the module / expander is not an USB Host you can't "drive" it from a keyboard: being it class compliant or not.

 

The GSI Gemini I own has a USB Host port so you can play it with a keyboard connected over USB. There could be others... but be sure to check if they have USB Host functionality.

 

There are actually two different issues here. The ability to function as a USB host allows you to attach a class-compliant slave device to it via USB, and that function is enough to support MIDI.

 

However, audio over USB is another matter. And I should clarify my earlier post...

 

Dexibel SX7/SX8 host function supports a USB MIDI controller. When connected to a computer, it supports audio over USB as well (in that case, it is the computer that is the host). Whether it could send audio over USB to any other keyboard (based on the functionality of that keyboard) is not something I can answer. Seqtrak similar. So to answer Paul's question, while these can send audio to a computer or iPad over USB (no driver needed), I do not know if there is a way to send audio from them to the Korg Keystage.

[The Piano Man]

For the simpletons amongst us, what are we asking here?

 

Is the question thus:

 

Can I connect my keyboard via a usb cable to a module, such as Dexibell SX8 or GSI Gemini, and have the sounds from the module be controlled by the keyboard? 
 

I have a Korg XE20 and a Korg Liano, both of which lack 5 pin midi. Can they connect to the aforementioned modules via a USB cable?
 

Or is it a different question! 

[Paul Woodward]

Sorry, I was just musing really. I know the best answer is an iPad, but I'm a curious sort and wondered if a sound module/expander could be connected in the same way an iPad can to act as an additional sound source for boards like the YC/CK and Keystage. Sort of like adding an expansion board and, in the case of the KS, turning it into a synth or workstation.

They can all be MIDI'd up, but with USB, your audio comes from the one board. Great for the Yamaha's, fairly pointless for the KS actually as you just take the audio out of the module rather than the KS.

As I said, just curious really. Would be interesting to try the Seqtrak as it looks like it would work. I heard the OP-Z can do this too.

At the end of the day, I think the iPad will still win due to it's power, battery, and range of apps.

[stoken6]

21 hours ago, AROIOS said:

Most synths and controllers aren't "USB hosts", that means simply connecting two class compliant devices won't automatically enable you to use one of them as a "master". You'll still need a usb midi host box.

Funnily enough this thing can be a USB host https://www.thomann.co.uk/miditech_pianobox_mini_ii.htm. In theory you could rig up a Yamaha P125 or something to it.

 

The triangular V3 modules seem to have the same capability - or at least a type-A USB port which strongly hints at it.

 

EDIT: I think you're looking for a module which can 1. receive MIDI over a USB cable, and 2. send audio back down the same USB cable. I can't think of anything offhand, but I haven't researched it to any degree.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, The Piano Man said:

Can I connect my keyboard via a usb cable to a module, such as Dexibell SX8 or GSI Gemini, and have the sounds from the module be controlled by the keyboard? 
 

I have a Korg XE20 and a Korg Liano, both of which lack 5 pin midi. Can they connect to the aforementioned modules via a USB cable?

Most modules can't do this (on their own). You'll need a USB host box, or a computer (/ipad/iphone...).

 

Some modules can act as a USB host. As well as the ones I found above, Crumar's desktop module (discontinued?) could do this, as well as the GSi Gemini.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AROIOS]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

Funnily enough this thing can be a USB host https://www.thomann.co.uk/miditech_pianobox_mini_ii.htm. In theory you could rig up a Yamaha P125 or something to it.

 

The triangular V3 modules seem to have the same capability - or at least a type-A USB port which strongly hints at it...

We're two decades into MIDI-over-USB now, the scarcity of synths with "host" capability is kinda mind-boggling. I think most buyers wouldn't mind spending an extra $10~20 on a synth to have that convenience. It looks like another case of disconnect between product design and consumer demand.

[AnotherScott]

I think the models with USB host support are built on Linux (numerous Korgs and Yamahas definitely are), which means the underlying low level OS support is already there, presumably a big factor in making it viable.

[jason88]

17 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

There are actually two different issues here. The ability to function as a USB host allows you to attach a class-compliant slave device to it via USB, and that function is enough to support MIDI.

 

However, audio over USB is another matter. And I should clarify my earlier post...

 

Dexibel SX7/SX8 host function supports a USB MIDI controller. When connected to a computer, it supports audio over USB as well (in that case, it is the computer that is the host). Whether it could send audio over USB to any other keyboard (based on the functionality of that keyboard) is not something I can answer. Seqtrak similar. So to answer Paul's question, while these can send audio to a computer or iPad over USB (no driver needed), I do not know if there is a way to send audio from them to the Korg Keystage.

You are correct. I have the SX8 and it does USB over audio; I can connect my iPad to it and use Pianoteq through the dexibell. However, I can not get the SX8 to send its audio over USB to another keyboard, and tried with my Clavinova and Kronos (both class compliant devices).

[stoken6]

10 hours ago, AROIOS said:

We're two decades into MIDI-over-USB now, the scarcity of synths with "host" capability is kinda mind-boggling. I think most buyers wouldn't mind spending an extra $10~20 on a synth to have that convenience. It looks like another case of disconnect between product design and consumer demand.

The move away from 5-pin MIDI (any-to-any) to USB MIDI ("I can talk to some special things, but I can't talk to you" is driven by precisely the desire to save $10 (probably less) in manufacturing costs. Unfortunately market forces don't help the minority who are gigging musicians with multiple synths. 

 

8 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I think the models with USB host support are built on Linux (numerous Korgs and Yamahas definitely are)

Crumar would likewise fall into this category I think?

 

Regards, Mike.