Single keyboard rig

[AnotherScott]

On 10/4/2024 at 8:32 AM, stoken6 said:

I'll add a 9th to Scott's list

9. Two boards can be lighter than one.

 

Yes, you might find that two boards that do just one you need, combined, weigh less than any single board that can give you that same combination of features' you're looking for.

 

I'll also add one more... an opportunity for more sonic variety.

 

It's also related to my point about having good enough sounds for all the things you really care about. With two boards, you increase the odds of being able to say, for example, you have a clav or rhodes you love and also an organ you love, as opposed to only "good enough" of one (or both) of them.

 

On 10/4/2024 at 9:08 AM, Reezekeys said:

IMO it boils down to the requirements of the gig and the music. I'm not in a cover band playing a mix of different bands' music from different eras - it might change my point of view on this if I was.

 

Yes. Related... do you do more or less the same sets every gig? Or can one gig be very different from the next, in terms of the sound combinations you need and the sound switching you'll have to do? The more predictable and consistent your shows are, the easier it would be to set up one board that is optimized for that workflow. But if what you do changes all the time, you play with numerous bands, etc., prepping and changing that stuff all the time can be its own full time job.

 

On 10/4/2024 at 9:15 AM, Stokely said:

There's also a "comfort" in simply dialing up say a piano on one and an organ on the other and just knowing I don't have to worry about a split.

 

Again, yes... and expounding on not having to worry about a split, it's nice to know that, if you need to play piano, you just reach for that board and play, and not olnly don't need to worry about a split meaning you may run out of notes or cross a barrier, but also you don't need to remember, okay, on this patch, the piano is on the left and octave shifted, but on that patch the piano is on the right, that kind of thing. You'll have more consistency in what sound is where from one song to another.

[Stokely]

The funny thing about that is that my more flexible board (Fantom) is currently mostly on "piano duty" while the Nord stage 3 is doing most of the other stuff. And my main piano scene has other sounds on zones ready for action, so it's sort of a super-patch.   I expect that will change gradually, it's the newer of the two.    Part of it is trying to keep both a one and two keyboard rig possible (as many of you also do), so I have to do all the programming I need multiple times and it's a headache.   Everything has to be on the Stage in case I do a single-board gig.  I'd *like* to just say "always use both" but these damn outdoor gigs make me hesitate.  I've had to pack up in a huge hurry before and I'm sure I will again.   And if I did more multi-band single-set gigs (haven't done one in ages) that would be another big reason for one keyboard.

[sherry]

I've been using a single board set-up for more years than I can count.  To me, it's so worth the time and energy to program whatever splits and layers I need to get through a gig.  Of course, you need a board that is capable of everything you need.  For me, it's the Korg Kronos.  As much as I HATE and I mean HATE using a 61 key keyboard, I've been able to manage doing some pretty complex setups using the Korg.  Of course I have to use the switches for octave changes, but I've been able to pull off whatever is needed for a particular song.  The huge advantage is, setup is maybe 5 minutes and you're not breaking your back because of weight.  Unfold stand, set keyboard on stand, plug in DI box and cables, sus pedal and you're good to go.  Tear-down is lightning fast when needed.  Of course, your milage may vary.

[DanL]

On 10/1/2024 at 6:33 AM, ewall08530 said:

This Atlantic City scenario happened to me about 16 years ago. After having our 8 piece band jockeying for 2 baggage carts to transport gear an ungodly distance to the event room, I spent the next day and most of my pay purchasing my first Rock N Roller cart.  
Since then it’s been a back and time saver on so many occasions.  

All the AC gigs I've done have union people that unload the gear for me. We just say "that goes over here" when we get to the stage. 

[DanL]

I think it goes without saying that whether you use 1 board or 6, you have accessories that need to be schlepped. Stand, stool, amps/speakers etc. 

 

My 1 board rig is my Stage 3. I'm doing a gig today with a pickup band at a wedding and it is covering everything I need. I'm not sure if I can run IEMs (I'll only use them if I can control my own mix) so I'm bringing my Motion Sound amp, a 4 space rack that has a line mixer, power, IEM mixer, and a DI, Z stand, stool, pedal board, and a 10 space rack I use to hold my fan, ipad in it's case, extra cables and other knick knacks I might need. It'll be 1 trip with my cart.

 

For my multi board rig, the only difference is 2 more keyboard cases, a 2nd stand, and a 2nd pedalboard.  

[Reezekeys]

19 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

On 10/4/2024 at 9:08 AM, Reezekeys said:

IMO it boils down to the requirements of the gig and the music. I'm not in a cover band playing a mix of different bands' music from different eras - it might change my point of view on this if I was.

 

Yes. Related... do you do more or less the same sets every gig? Or can one gig be very different from the next, in terms of the sound combinations you need and the sound switching you'll have to do?

AWB is the only gig I do that uses presets. Same tunes for the past 11 years. All the local gigs I do are informal jazzy - funky (old people music) affairs, where I’m just switching between rhodes and acoustic piano, maybe a little organ or strings once in a while.

 

Only five AWB songs use presets, but some of them are quite involved with odd transpositions, keyswitching, one-finger chording, etc. As i said through, I’m not constrained by a hardware board’s architecture - I get to design presets to work exactly how I want.

[nursers]

On 10/4/2024 at 11:22 PM, cphollis said:

This guy says "hold my beer" ... not the way I'd want to do it, but you gotta admit it's impressive ....

 

 

Francis is a lovely guy and his sound packs are amazing - I have em all for my MODX and am using a few of them. Recommended.

[cphollis]

1 minute ago, nursers said:

Francis is a lovely guy and his sound packs are amazing - I have em all for my MODX and am using a few of them. Recommended.

Agreed!  His 80s pack for the NS4 is exceptional, if nothing else as a learning tool.  I'll take his densely-packed programs and spread them over two keyboards, and they're great!

[jarrell]

On 10/4/2024 at 6:08 AM, Reezekeys said:

These are all great points. Maybe I should talk to a therapist: I enjoy the challenge of making a complicated split work on a single 61-key board! 🙂 Part of it is having a laptop & controller setup with a host program (Plogue Bidule) that lets me do crazy stuff like splitting off non-contiguous notes, transposing individual notes to separate intervals while routing them to different VIs, etc. Almost anything I can think of to make it work can be done. If I need the whole range of the keyboard for a solo, I have a button I press to toggle out of "preset" mode and I'm good. With Bidule, *I* designed my "preset system" from scratch, so I could make it work exactly the way I wanted.

 

IMO it boils down to the requirements of the gig and the music. I'm not in a cover band playing a mix of different bands' music from different eras - it might change my point of view on this if I was. In reality, a big part is me just wanting the simplest and easiest schlep without compromising my enjoyment on the gig.

 

I too like the challenge of making a split work for the task at hand. My PC4 is pretty good at various splits and layers in multi mode, e.g. doing stuff like using a foot switch to mute or unmute various programs in a multi. Plus similarly I'm not doing pop music covers (except occasionally) - just jazz and Brazilian music where I get to arrange and decide what sounds I use. I get a lot of mileage out of a few generic multis with acoustic piano and/or Rhodes as the main sounds, and B3, strings, horns, accordion (for the North Eastern Brazilian stuff), or all the same plus and acoustic and electric bass sounds for playing left hand bass.

 

I like having one 29 lb. keyboard to take to gigs, along with my 2 19 lb. Ev Zx-A1's for good quality stereo sound. Now, I wish all connections for power, audio, and pedals were wireless already,  like it eventually will be no doubt after I retire...

[AnotherScott]

 

 

7 hours ago, sherry said:

For me, it's the Korg Kronos.  As much as I HATE and I mean HATE using a 61 key keyboard, I've been able to manage doing some pretty complex setups using the Korg. 

 

The Nautilus 73 was a bit of a temptation (about 32 lbs, so about 15 lbs less than the Kronos 73 was)... but still heavier than I want to deal with. Though you'd also lose the KARMA which IIRC you make good use of.

 

These days, for a lightweight single board solution with more than 61 keys, I'd probably go with the Kurzweil PC4-7. But I do find the interface/navigation off-putting, Which is why even as a top board of a pair, I've been using the Fantom-07 instead. I think the Kurz largely beats it in sounds, action, and functionality, bu it's just a pain to use, by comparison. Too bad the Nautilus 73 isn't similarly under 20 lbs. 😉

 

7 hours ago, DanL said:

I think it goes without saying that whether you use 1 board or 6, you have accessories that need to be schlepped. Stand, stool, amps/speakers etc. 

 

It depends. I stand, so I don't bring a stool. As I mentioned earlier, if I had to be as light and fast (and/or as compact) as possible, a keytar approach means you may not even need a stand. And sometimes, my gigs don't even need an amp  (there's a house PA, and they feed the sound back to me through the stage monitors). So even those givens can vary with circumstances.

 

7 hours ago, DanL said:

For my multi board rig, the only difference is 2 more keyboard cases, a 2nd stand, and a 2nd pedalboard.  

 

If I were to cut down from my 2-board rig to a single board, I could remove the second-tier attachment from my stand (saves 2 lbs), but on my second board, more often than not, I don't even bother plugging in pedals, so other than the keyboard itself (in its bag), all that's left that I could really save is one power cable and one guitar cable (I play in mono). Still, the time to take one more keyboard out of its bag, place it on the stand, get and connect its power adapter and guitar cable, and get rid of the case, will still add some time (as will doing the same thing in reverse for the pack-up); and in some cases, the difference of the second board could also make the difference between one and two car trips (or having  to bother with a cart). So even in my minimal scenario, it can add minutes which can sometimes matter.

 

Though getting back to what stoken6, in terms of total schleppage, some of the two-board pairs I've gigged with have weighed less than a Kronos 61 or some other single-board approaches that have been mentioned.

 

 

[cphollis]

After consideration, my preference for two keyboard controllers is really all about freedom: the ability to move around without having to know where the splits might be on this particular program.  

 

While I do all the "signature parts" on the set list, I also experiment and improvise a bunch where I can.  Never the same way twice.  

 

So having additional real estate to stretch out on is a nice luxury for me.  That, and having two different keyboard weights, a measure of redundancy, etc.

 

 

[Synthaholic]

I'm lugging 8 items:

 

1. Kurz PC4-7
2. Spacestation 
3. On-Stage platform stand for the keyboard
4. 4-space Gator rack bag (module/mixer/vocal processor)
5. RockJam Xfinity X-Stand for the rack (awesome, btw)
6. Musician's Gear bench (meh)
7. Briefcase carrying my iPad, microphone, Kurz power supply
8. gym bag of power cables

They all fit very nicely on my Rock and Roller cart.