Single keyboard rig

[DaveMcM]

1 hour ago, Konnector said:

 

Emerson & Wakeman both used a Promega 3 live (for a while a least) in the early 2000's. 

Back in the mid 90's iirc, Wakeman had a radio interview and there was some issue with getting an acoustic piano so he used his Promega 3, unbeknownst to the audience. A number of calls came in to the station after the show praising the sound of the piano. It was/is quite an instrument.

[DaveMcM]

1 hour ago, danstein said:

When I was full-time gigging in NYC, most of my gigs were shared stages with back-to-back bands, so getting on and off stage as fast as possible was essential. If we had 10 minutes for set-up that was luxurious.

 

My best, most streamlined gig was a Nord Electro 73, a CPS Space-Station, and an X-stand. I had one of those little folding luggage carts, and I could actually get to and from gigs on the subway with that rig.

 

(And btw, for those who have never been to NYC and might have an unclear idea of what NYC denizens are like - when I was lugging that rig slowly and painfully one step at a time up the two flights of stairs from the subway, I would say 70-80% of the time someone would just grab the bottom and help me up, without even asking.)

When I lived in Philly, I would occasionally play in Atlantic City and did something similar. A small luggage cart from the parking garage, up multiple escalators, through the casinos, etc.

[Delaware Dave]

24 minutes ago, DaveMcM said:

When I lived in Philly, I would occasionally play in Atlantic City and did something similar. A small luggage cart from the parking garage, up multiple escalators, through the casinos, etc.

+1 on Philly

+1 on promega 3

As you know i have the 76 and 88 Pro Equinox.  The 88 Pro has the Real Piano derivative.  Not only does the piano sound fantastic but the TP20 keybed is also fantastic.  Without a doubt  the best piano action I have ever played on. I can literally play twice as fast on that action as I can on the Kurz's TP40L keybed. And believe it or not the 'puny' 8Mb acoustic piano sample sounds on par to the 3.5Gb sample of the Forte. The Forte has a better low end (better definition), the Equinox has a better high end (clearer) and in the middle of the keybed they are about identical.  Sound balance across the keyboard the Equinox's acoustic piano is even top to bottom where the Forte's is more unbalanced, some adjacent notes are louder, some are softer.  The Equinox is balanced top to bottom, no soft nor loud notes. 

 

Big Equinox CON: 72 Pounds. This is the only reason i dont gig with the keyboard anymore; its too heavy otherwise I'd still be gigging with it. Playability and soundwise, its absolutely wonderful. I've had it 25 years, everything still works.

[DaveMcM]

26 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

+1 on Philly

+1 on promega 3

As you know i have the 76 and 88 Pro Equinox.  The 88 Pro has the Real Piano derivative.  Not only does the piano sound fantastic but the TP20 keybed is also fantastic.  Without a doubt  the best piano action I have ever played on. I can literally play twice as fast on that action as I can on the Kurz's TP40L keybed. And believe it or not the 'puny' 8Mb acoustic piano sample sounds on par to the 3.5Gb sample of the Forte. The Forte has a better low end (better definition), the Equinox has a better high end (clearer) and in the middle of the keybed they are about identical.  Sound balance across the keyboard the Equinox's acoustic piano is even top to bottom where the Forte's is more unbalanced, some adjacent notes are louder, some are softer.  The Equinox is balanced top to bottom, no soft nor loud notes. 

 

Big Equinox CON: 72 Pounds. This is the only reason i dont gig with the keyboard anymore; its too heavy otherwise I'd still be gigging with it. Playability and soundwise, its absolutely wonderful. I've had it 25 years, everything still works.

I would love to have an Equinox again. Even the 61 key would be fine. I do still have my GEM WK-8 which is the 61 key version of the SK880 88 key pro arranger keyboard. Those instrument would still compete against a lot of the current instruments.

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, wjwilcox said:

One trip lightweight schlep:

{image}

Roland VR09b, Stay Slim stand, iPad 2.......around 20 pounds.

From the pictures/specs, I like that stand, super light like my K&M, but more compact for transport. I wish  the legs were somehow attached (either a fold-up, or if they must be removed, they could just somehow attach to the stalk. (I guess maybe you could do that with velcro.)

[Moonglow]

2 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

+1 on Philly

+1 on promega 3

As you know i have the 76 and 88 Pro Equinox.  The 88 Pro has the Real Piano derivative.  Not only does the piano sound fantastic but the TP20 keybed is also fantastic.  Without a doubt  the best piano action I have ever played on. I can literally play twice as fast on that action as I can on the Kurz's TP40L keybed. And believe it or not the 'puny' 8Mb acoustic piano sample sounds on par to the 3.5Gb sample of the Forte. The Forte has a better low end (better definition), the Equinox has a better high end (clearer) and in the middle of the keybed they are about identical.  Sound balance across the keyboard the Equinox's acoustic piano is even top to bottom where the Forte's is more unbalanced, some adjacent notes are louder, some are softer.  The Equinox is balanced top to bottom, no soft nor loud notes. 

 

Big Equinox CON: 72 Pounds. This is the only reason i dont gig with the keyboard anymore; its too heavy otherwise I'd still be gigging with it. Playability and soundwise, its absolutely wonderful. I've had it 25 years, everything still works.

 

1 hour ago, DaveMcM said:

I would love to have an Equinox again. Even the 61 key would be fine. I do still have my GEM WK-8 which is the 61 key version of the SK880 88 key pro arranger keyboard. Those instrument would still compete against a lot of the current instruments.

I have a Pro 2, the DP Keith Emerson used live before the Promega 3. I’m fairly certain he used the Pro 2 on his Christmas album, as well.

 

I also have a Realpiano Expander, essentially representing the rack version of a Pro 1.

 

I then “upgraded” to an RP-X module (which I used live for years) although I probably still prefer the sound of the “Pro” series pianos.

 

A good friend of mine has an Equinox, which I was drooling over the other day.

 

I apologize for the GEM side bar. These were incredible instruments, which as DD noted still hold their own today.

[Motif88]

While I'm too old and too tired to play live gigs anymore...My single keyboard rig would most likely be a Fantom 08. Had one for a few weeks and liked it but wasn't the right gear for the revised home studio. Moved to the Montage M8x and dropped the RD-2000. I could not be happier with my choice.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

8 hours ago, wjwilcox said:

 

 

Stay Slim stand,

 He wj. Im using same stand for sitting but column gets in way of showing me singing so Im thinking on going back to standing although i was thinking of cutiing down my spare stand into the compact size for sitting

 

I see you have your tablet mounted up top. Im assuming you are using the the top tier knuckle without arms to somehow hold the tablet or did you create a top tube lid screwed into the tube to support a tablet holder.

To those who dont have one of these the top tube filler piece is just plastic and reduction fit so falls out easily hence needs a solid piece screwed in

[Dave Bryce]

2 hours ago, Moonglow said:

I apologize for the GEM side bar. These were incredible instruments, which as DD noted still hold their own today.

 
I maintain that they made much better instruments than they ever got credit for in the US.  As far back as the early 90s, I was a big fan of the S2 and S3.  Not only out-spec’d a bunch of the competition, but had fabulous keybeds as well.

 

I kind of believe that if they had been able to call the line GEM in America (as it was in Europe) rather than GeneralMusic that it might have done better.

 

dB

[Leroy C]

A slight digression perhaps ...

 

Those of you who favor single keyboard rigs, what are your priorities?  It sounds like weight / portability is a big one.  After that, do you focus on sounds? Action? other features?

 

I'm just dipping my toes into gigging on keys (I've gigged on bass on and off for decades, but keys are relatively newer for me).  Right now I have two boards: my RD-2000 and VR-730.  I'm picky about actions, so it's hard for me to imagine a single board that would make me happy playing piano, organ, and synth parts.  However, I'd absolutely compromise if I could find an action that's "good enough" for whatever I need to play.  The VR-730 is great for organ and synth, but not super satisfying for piano, while the RD-2000 is great for piano but really not good (for me) for anything else.

[nursers]

39 minutes ago, Leroy C said:

A slight digression perhaps ...

 

Those of you who favor single keyboard rigs, what are your priorities?  It sounds like weight / portability is a big one.  After that, do you focus on sounds? Action? other features?

 

I'm just dipping my toes into gigging on keys (I've gigged on bass on and off for decades, but keys are relatively newer for me).  Right now I have two boards: my RD-2000 and VR-730.  I'm picky about actions, so it's hard for me to imagine a single board that would make me happy playing piano, organ, and synth parts.  However, I'd absolutely compromise if I could find an action that's "good enough" for whatever I need to play.  The VR-730 is great for organ and synth, but not super satisfying for piano, while the RD-2000 is great for piano but really not good (for me) for anything else.

Weight and breadth of sounds is equal #1 for me - I use a MODX to cover both those but I'm also not fussy on keybed as I know some people hate the MODX and Fantom 0 series keybeds. 

[yannis D]

Since some years I go with my Nord Electro 5d as my main -and most of the times only- keyboard. Sound should always be provided so I don't bother bringing mine. I will take my in ears as well 

When ever a second keyboard is absolutely necessary, production should backline an 88 Nord. If there's no production I'll bring my Mainstage rig with a Bluetooth controller Korg mini keys 37, all fit in a backbag.  

My rig can be transferred on foot, in a taxi, in the subway, and this is my never breaking law.

 

[Al Quinn]

I've tried a few single-board rigs, but the only one that's worked for me is the YC73. The action isn't the best for organ, piano, or synth, but it's quite playable for all. I can't say this about any other keyboard I've had. Having finally found a one-board rig that works for me, I have a hard time not bringing my SK Pro 61: it's so light and sounds so good! The incremental schlep is negligible and, therefore, I find myself using two keyboards most of the time. But at least I have a single-board rig I like when needed.

 

Here's a short video of my single-board rig in action:

 

 

[ewall08530]

14 hours ago, DaveMcM said:

When I lived in Philly, I would occasionally play in Atlantic City and did something similar. A small luggage cart from the parking garage, up multiple escalators, through the casinos, etc.

This Atlantic City scenario happened to me about 16 years ago. After having our 8 piece band jockeying for 2 baggage carts to transport gear an ungodly distance to the event room, I spent the next day and most of my pay purchasing my first Rock N Roller cart.  
Since then it’s been a back and time saver on so many occasions.  

[DaveMcM]

10 hours ago, Dave Bryce said:

 
I maintain that they made much better instruments than they ever got credit for in the US.  As far back as the early 90s, I was a big fan of the S2 and S3.  Not only out-spec’d a bunch of the competition, but had fabulous keybeds as well.

 

I kind of believe that if they had been able to call the line GEM in America (as it was in Europe) rather than GeneralMusic that it might have done better.

 

dB

I agree Dave. The S2/3 as well as the SX (arranger versions) were way ahead of their times. Built-in hard drives, 4 part vocal harmonizes, etc.

 

we had several heated discussions regarding the company name and the logo that replaced the GEM logo.

 

a fellow in the Netherlands had bought the Generalmusic name and what was left of parts and so forth (which wasn’t much) with plans to re-introduce the Promega 2 but haven’t seen anything in quite a while. 

[Delaware Dave]

1 hour ago, DaveMcM said:

I agree Dave. The S2/3 as well as the SX (arranger versions) were way ahead of their times. Built-in hard drives, 4 part vocal harmonizes, etc.

 

we had several heated discussions regarding the company name and the logo that replaced the GEM logo.

 

a fellow in the Netherlands had bought the Generalmusic name and what was left of parts and so forth (which wasn’t much) with plans to re-introduce the Promega 2 but haven’t seen anything in quite a while. 

 

A few years ago i saw pictures of an abandoned warehouse with GEM parts in boxes.  Thought that they were going to inventory and make the parts available for sale. That was pre-covid.  

 

 

 

 

[DaveMcM]

5 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

A few years ago i saw pictures of an abandoned warehouse with GEM parts in boxes.  Thought that they were going to inventory and make the parts available for sale. That was pre-covid.  

 

 

 

 

Yes, very sad.

[wjwilcox]

20 hours ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

 He wj. Im using same stand for sitting but column gets in way of showing me singing so Im thinking on going back to standing although i was thinking of cutiing down my spare stand into the compact size for sitting

 

I see you have your tablet mounted up top. Im assuming you are using the the top tier knuckle without arms to somehow hold the tablet or did you create a top tube lid screwed into the tube to support a tablet holder.

To those who dont have one of these the top tube filler piece is just plastic and reduction fit so falls out easily hence needs a solid piece screwed in

I always thought column stands looked really odd when sitting......but this is a family forum so can't elaborate on details.....😁

 

It's an On-Stage U-Mount holder.  This photo shows the iPad holder and mount more clearly:

[AUSSIEKEYS]

1 hour ago, wjwilcox said:

I always thought column stands looked really odd when sitting.

 

It's an On-Stage U-Mount holder.  This photo shows the iPad holder and mount more clearly:

 

Thanks for the photo.

 

Hee hee. Yes i saw a video of me sitting at it for a demo video for a duo and was not impressed. Havent gigged with my Slim sitting yet as last gigging was sitting at a quality X stand. But till recent years my gigging has always been standing up. 

 

As far as i can see from photo yours is fitted by drilling a hole thru the top tier mount. If so do you feel the plastic of the top tier support is strong. Why I ask this is i had at first toyed with the idea of affixing a flexible microphone adaptor to it which would probably have more leverage.

 

Its impossible to get parts here so dont want to experiment on it and not be able to replace the part if its not strong enough.

 

 

[wjwilcox]

22 hours ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

 

As far as i can see from photo yours is fitted by drilling a hole thru the top tier mount. If so do you feel the plastic of the top tier support is strong. Why I ask this is i had at first toyed with the idea of affixing a flexible microphone adaptor to it which would probably have more leverage.

 

 

 This photo may help.  No holes are drilled or even necessary.  The clamp is attached to the top tier mount.  It was a bit fiddly to get it in there and tightened, but once installed has been solid and robust.  OnStage TCM9163 Quick Table Mount.

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

59 minutes ago, wjwilcox said:

 This photo may help.  OnStage TCM9163 Quick Table Mount.

 

 

You are a flipping GENIUS. At first i couldnt see how that clamp works but I found a photo of the product.

 

We dont have easy time finding products on shelf here in Australia to do a phyical "will this work for me" evaluation so help like yours is very appreciated.

[stoken6]

20 hours ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

You are a flipping GENIUS

KC chalks up another "great place to forum" success.

 

Chees, Mike.

[konaboy]

since synths and workstation keyboards are multitimbral with splits and layers, and we only have 2 hands, why would you not gig with just a single?

 

my last gig with 2 boards was in 1988 with a juno6 and ms20, out of necessity to cover bass and comp. That rig was retired as soon as I got a D10 with keyboard splits and never looked back.

 

curious to hear your thoughts as I never understand why weekend warriors like myself have more than one, let alone 3 or 4 keyboards on the gig.

[cphollis]

56 minutes ago, konaboy said:

since synths and workstation keyboards are multitimbral with splits and layers, and we only have 2 hands, why would you not gig with just a single?

 

my last gig with 2 boards was in 1988 with a juno6 and ms20, out of necessity to cover bass and comp. That rig was retired as soon as I got a D10 with keyboard splits and never looked back.

 

curious to hear your thoughts as I never understand why weekend warriors like myself have more than one, let alone 3 or 4 keyboards on the gig.

I prefer a weighted keybed for piano parts, and an unweighted one for organ, synth, etc.  Worth the schlep for me.

 

So does using a single board with an external controller count as one board, or two?

[AnotherScott]

On 10/3/2024 at 6:11 PM, konaboy said:

since synths and workstation keyboards are multitimbral with splits and layers, and we only have 2 hands, why would you not gig with just a single?

 

my last gig with 2 boards was in 1988 with a juno6 and ms20, out of necessity to cover bass and comp. That rig was retired as soon as I got a D10 with keyboard splits and never looked back.

 

curious to hear your thoughts as I never understand why weekend warriors like myself have more than one, let alone 3 or 4 keyboards on the gig.

1. backup in case of a board failure, you can still get through the gig

 

2. as cphollis said, a single board never has an ideal action for piano and an ideal action for organ

 

3. even action aside, no single board may have everything you might want for your performance, which for some people could be some combination of a wide variety of things... drawbars? aftertouch? high quality pianos, organs, orchestral, and synth sounds? real-time synth and effects controls? at least "good enough" action for both piano and organ? good set list or other patch management for quick access to many sounds? a travel weight you can deal with? a particular amount of MIDI functionality? seamless sound switching? (SSS becomes more important when you've got only one board, when switching to your next sound could otherwise easily abruptly cut out the sound you had been playing.)

 

4. with two boards, it's pretty easy to choose sounds for each hand as you need them, on the fly; but on one board, virtually every song that needs more than one sound played at a time probably needs to be programmed in in advance... meaning a lot more prep time, less ability to easily swap one board one board for another if needed for any reason, and making it more difficult to do gigs that involve "winging things" unless you play only one sound at a time

 

5. related to that, if you're trying to do your LH and RH sounds both on a single board in a way that even comes close to the flexibility of what you can do on the fly with two boards (i.e. without having to set up virtually every combination you might possibly need in advance), you probably also want good quick access to volume, octave, and even patch change functionality for both your LH and RH sounds independently... which really cuts down on the possible options, making it even harder to find a board that has everything else you may want (e.g. the stuff listed in point 3) 

 

6. playing with a spit point is a nuisance for improvisation, it's limiting, plus those limits make it easy to accidentally cross a split point... it's nice to minimize that when you can

 

7. even when playing fixed parts you can completely plan for, you may not have enough keys to play all possible two hand parts that require different sounds, e.g. sometimes a RH part with its sound will need to cross a LH part with its sound, there may be no way to give each part all the keys it needs even on an 88. To say nothing of times you must also be able to quickly switch among even more than the two sounds you're currently playing, which brings me to...

 

8. some songs just involve lots of sounds (not just two), and doing them on one board with 88 or fewer keys can then require lots of fast in-song switching, which not only again can mean lots of prep, but also can interfere with the ease and fluidity of the performance

 

I probably missed some. 😉

 

[stoken6]

I'll add a 9th to Scott's list

9. Two boards can be lighter than one. If you want a hammer-action board, a cheap (plastic) Casio, Yamaha or Kawai under a (non-hammer) Montage, Motif, Nautilus etc. can achieve a total weight less than the hammer-action equivalent premium board on its own. The unweighted playing surface is a nice bonus beyond just treating the second board as a sound module. 

 

I'll +1 to Scott's points 1, 2 and 7. I'm much more comfortable playing on a mix of actions / I have had a board fail on me at a gig / and I like a split point that separates one sound from another VERTICALLY. You can't miss/forget where that is!

 

EDIT my 9 might have been mentioned in Scott's 3!

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Reezekeys]

These are all great points. Maybe I should talk to a therapist: I enjoy the challenge of making a complicated split work on a single 61-key board! 🙂 Part of it is having a laptop & controller setup with a host program (Plogue Bidule) that lets me do crazy stuff like splitting off non-contiguous notes, transposing individual notes to separate intervals while routing them to different VIs, etc. Almost anything I can think of to make it work can be done. If I need the whole range of the keyboard for a solo, I have a button I press to toggle out of "preset" mode and I'm good. With Bidule, *I* designed my "preset system" from scratch, so I could make it work exactly the way I wanted.

 

IMO it boils down to the requirements of the gig and the music. I'm not in a cover band playing a mix of different bands' music from different eras - it might change my point of view on this if I was. In reality, a big part is me just wanting the simplest and easiest schlep without compromising my enjoyment on the gig.

[counterpoint]

13 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

8. some songs just involve lots of sounds (not just two), and doing them on one board with 88 or fewer keys can then require lots of fast in-song switching, which not only again can mean lots of prep, but also can interfere with the ease and fluidity of the performance

 

I immediately thought of "Rosanna" where, if you are trying to cover something reasonably close to the recorded parts, you need to have piano, organ, brass and synth sounds...sometimes together in different layers.  There's just not enough real estate on one keyboard even setting up a series without creating a series of several preset changes...and I'm not even sure you could do it with that.  Even with two keyboards, I still use a couple of mid-song preset changes.

[Stokely]

I have done almost all gigs in the past year with one (a Nord stage 3 compact) but on the whole I prefer having a second one.

While I can use splits, I prefer not to if I can.  There's also a "comfort" in simply dialing up say a piano on one and an organ on the other and just knowing I don't have to worry about a split.

Paradoxically, it can help with patch changing urgency between songs--you'd think, double the work and it can be if you use both on every song; but I tend more to use one keyboard more than another per song, which can let me dial up the other one in advance for the following song (our set lists change from gig to gig and I don't want to reprogram each keyboard for each gig).

I also like the redundancy factor in case there is an issue, I've had a couple gear issues at gigs over the years.

And here's a dumb reason for you--I'm a large dude and unfortunately overweight, it looks a bit.....odd....to see me behind a relatively small keyboard like the NS3c   Having two is better visual balance!   Certainly it's not me wanting to hide a bit....

[cphollis]

7 minutes ago, counterpoint said:

 

I immediately thought of "Rosanna" where, if you are trying to cover something reasonably close to the recorded parts, you need to have piano, organ, brass and synth sounds...sometimes together in different layers.  There's just not enough real estate on one keyboard even setting up a series without creating a series of several preset changes...and I'm not even sure you could do it with that.  Even with two keyboards, I still use a couple of mid-song preset changes.

This guy says "hold my beer" ... not the way I'd want to do it, but you gotta admit it's impressive ....