Two tier Nord setup rotary problems

[Steve Beach]

When using my Nord Stage 2 on the bottom tier, and my Electro 6D on the top tier, I like to use one set of foot controlled switches for expression (cc#11) sustain (#64) and rotary speed (#82) to control whatever keyboard my hands happen to be playing. Expression and sustain work fine, but it seem after years of using cc#82 for rotary speed, on the Electro 6, Nord has switched the rotary speed cc# to 108. Instead of using just one simple MIDI cable, this involves re-programming my Midi Solutions Event Processor Plus black box to convert #82 signals to #108. At least that’s how I understand it. Only thus far I haven’t been able to get it to work. Why would Nord suddenly change their Midi cc#’s?  I’ve owned about 6 Nords over the years and otherwise quite enjoy them.

 

TIA 

Steve B. 

[Delaware Dave]

Same reason why crumar uses different footswitch logic for different models so if you purchase a footswitch to control rotary for the mojo61 it wont work on the mojo XT.

[cphollis]

FWIW, it's the same #108 (rotary speed) that you'll find on the NS4.  I'm guessing they chose a new "standard" at some point a while back.  

[stoken6]

Presumably Controller #82 is the continuously-variable "set the rotor speed to any intermediate value you like, morphable with AT/wheel/pedal" thing, rather than the rotary toggle control?

 

If it is, you should be able to use a NS2 Extern section:

- Set its range to be the whole NS2 keyboard

- Set the extern channel to whatever the Electro is listening on (and don't send anything else on that channel)

- Set sustain pedal active in the extern section (I think CC#11 will transmit automatically by default)

- Configure the Extern control encoder to CC#104

- Configure a morph (on whatever controller you're using) to the Extern control encoder 

 

Would that work for you?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

[Steve Beach]

13 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Presumably Controller #82 is the continuously-variable "set the rotor speed to any intermediate value you like, morphable with AT/wheel/pedal" thing, rather than the rotary toggle control?

 

If it is, you should be able to use a NS2 Extern section:

- Set its range to be the whole NS2 keyboard

- Set the extern channel to whatever the Electro is listening on (and don't send anything else on that channel)

- Set sustain pedal active in the extern section (I think CC#11 will transmit automatically by default)

- Configure the Extern control encoder to CC#104

- Configure a morph (on whatever controller you're using) to the Extern control encoder 

 

Would that work for you?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

I’ll give that a try Mike.  Thank you. 

[obxa]

20 hours ago, Steve Beach said:

When using my Nord Stage 2 on the bottom tier, and my Electro 6D on the top tier, I like to use one set of foot controlled switches for expression (cc#11) sustain (#64) and rotary speed (#82) to control whatever keyboard my hands happen to be playing.

So how were you doing this?  Through Midi out of the Stage to the in of the Electro, and filtering out note info?

 

 I use a Nord Stage or Electro 6 up top  but with  a YC 73 on the bottom.  I need to keep my playing parts separated, but would love to use just one pedal for the Nord's sustain/leslie and Yamaha's leslie speed.    The YC unfortunately doesn't do the combined sustain-leslie thing,  so need sustain, plus a FS.

 

Question for Mike:  I'm wondering if your Stage external  trick could be used?  But that rules out the Electro.   I'd have to look up what CC # the YC uses for leslie speed, or if I would have to remap/filter with that same midi solutions box I also have. 

 

[voxpops]

Although I can't help specifically with regard to Nord, I use a very simple fix for rotary control on two instruments using one pedal. I attach a "Y" splitter to the end of the pedal cable and run from that into the rotary control inputs on both instruments. To function, it requires both instruments to be powered up at the same time, but it's worked flawlessly for me over the past five or six years.

 

I frequently switch between instruments to play organ and this makes life much easier. The same pedal can also provide incremental patch changes or sustain etc. depending on the way I've programmed individual patches.

[obxa]

 

12 minutes ago, voxpops said:

I attach a "Y" splitter to the end of the pedal cable and run from that into the rotary control inputs on both instruments.

That's the first thing I tried, but didn't work with my rig.  But hadn't tried powering them both up at same time. Will have to see if that does it, or maybe try another splitter.  I  just realized I'm also stuck because I use  the Midi-ins to receive BT from Forscore for program changes.

[voxpops]

6 minutes ago, obxa said:

 

That's the first thing I tried, but didn't work with my rig.  But hadn't tried powering them both up at same time. Wil have to see if that does it, or maybe try another splitter.  I  just realized I'm also stuck because I use  the Midi-ins to receive BT from Forscore for program changes.

 

Yes, it would be worth trying again with both instruments powered. I assume that it requires an uninterrupted circuit. Differing polarity requirements might cause issues, but I haven't yet found that to be a problem. I've used this method with my Kurzweil SP6 paired with either a VR-09 or Vox Continental, and also with my Numa X 73 and Vox/VR-09.

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, obxa said:

Question for Mike:  I'm wondering if your Stage external  trick could be used?  But that rules out the Electro.   I'd have to look up what CC # the YC uses for leslie speed, or if I would have to remap/filter with that same midi solutions box I also have. 

More information required please (terseness for brevity not snarkiness)

1. Which keyboard's sound engine do you want for the organ sound?
2. Which keyboard's keys do you want to play for this sound?
3. Yes or no: you want one continuous-type pedal to control organ swell? Do you want this same pedal to control anything else?
4. Yes or no: you want one switch-type pedal to control sustain on both boards simultaneously? Do you want this same pedal to also toggle rotary speed?

The Nord Stage Extern section can potentially help a lot here, although the Electro is a lot more limited.

 

2 hours ago, obxa said:

I  just realized I'm also stuck because I use  the Midi-ins to receive BT from Forscore for program changes.

I route Bandhelper into my Stage on the USB port, and simultaneously note on/off from another board into the 5-pin MIDI IN. So this isn't necessarily a dealbreaker - although if you want to stick with bluetooth, you'll need a USB bluetooth MIDI dongle thing. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[obxa]

Hi Mike,

Thanks-with apologies to OP for hijacking his thread!

3 hours ago, stoken6 said:

1. Which keyboard's sound engine do you want for the organ sound?
2. Which keyboard's keys do you want to play for this sound?
3. Yes or no: you want one continuous-type pedal to control organ swell? Do you want this same pedal to control anything else?
4. Yes or no: you want one switch-type pedal to control sustain on both boards simultaneously? Do you want this same pedal to also toggle rotary speed?

 

So for show gigs- YC is primarily "piano plus" with  light organ layering  and some orchestral stuff (harp,  marimba, celeste etc.)

Either Nord does heavy lifting of strings, brass, synth, & organ- and never any piano stuff.

 

1 & 2:  I actually just want them  both independent and self contained.  I.e. using the Yamaha's organ on its keyboard, and Nord on its own- For these gigs,  often do a sort of a  qausi double manual gospel thing, where the Yamaha  is just layering  its own understated muted (0034400 type )organ under piano, and Nord usually does the main (RH) organ stuff.  Be nice to have  leslies in sync, but not really critical.   Main desire is just to leave one pedal home.  I have a handful of tunes in some shows that need  long string holds and that's what I use Nord's sustain for.    Traditional sustain pedal for the YC  reminds my brain it's only for piano .:)

 

3 & 4 Actually never tried using one  CP  for both organs, that's a great idea! - On Nord Stage: Currently  two pedals:  Swell for organ, and  another for string/brass/synth control and that works great.   When I use  Electro- I just use the CP controlling both organ and other stuff.   The Yamaha has dedicated organ swell pedal.

Embarrassed by my  low rent solution:  Often use two Necktar slim pedals for organ swell that I sometimes rubber band together and control wtih one foot.  

 

4 hours ago, stoken6 said:

route Bandhelper into my Stage on the USB port,

Tell us more please! I've got a bucket of little USB to midi things and old Midi Solutions boxes.

 

Thanks so much

[stoken6]

Using one continuous pedal to control organ-swell and string/brass/synth-volume is easy on the Stage, there's a menu option for that.You say:

2 hours ago, obxa said:

The Yamaha has dedicated organ swell pedal.

So this would bring you down from three continuous pedals to two, one for each board.

 

2 hours ago, obxa said:

Tell us more please!

It just works! I run MIDI program changes from Set List Maker on my iPad into my Stage via USB (Apple CCK + USB cable) and a MIDI controller into my Stage via 5-pin DIN MIDI. The iPad is transmitting on the Global Channel, and the controller on the Dual Kbd channel. So similar to your situation but with a wired connection.

 

That's why I say if you want Bluetooth, you'll need to run it into the USB socket. I think CME do some kind of "Bluetooth on USB" thingy, but tbh their product line confuses me.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[obxa]

Thanks Mike, really appreciate it.

 

Because I was brought up "5 pin" LOL- Other than occasionally doing YC  with Korg Module or librarian use,   always forget about using the USB ports on the Nord or YC  live - that's something I need to look into more.

 

RE:  CME-  I use their BlueTooth Thru box in a similar fashion to Set list maker using Forscore page turns/buttons  to send different  program changes to each board, & occasionally Mainstage.   Basically same as using the CCK and a  thru box,  perhaps a little cleaner at the Ipad end, but still more junk on the floor.

  Forscore only supports one BT device, and Nord & Yamaha don't have midi thru.  BT program changes get sent to the CME Thru box, then regular midi cables from box to each board's Midi in.   

 

 The great thing about the CME  is it also has wired Midi input too, and super low latency.  With that, I've considered using a  midi enabled  footswitctch/pedal  to send select leslie/sustain or expression over the network.

  I've also used their Widi thing when using just one board, as well as the Yamaha BT adaptor which made for a very simple clean connection when using just one keyboard.  

 

[Steve Beach]

23 hours ago, obxa said:

So how were you doing this?  Through Midi out of the Stage to the in of the Electro, and filtering out note info?

 

 I use a Nord Stage or Electro 6 up top  but with  a YC 73 on the bottom.  I need to keep my playing parts separated, but would love to use just one pedal for the Nord's sustain/leslie and Yamaha's leslie speed.    The YC unfortunately doesn't do the combined sustain-leslie thing,  so need sustain, plus a FS.

 

Question for Mike:  I'm wondering if your Stage external  trick could be used?  But that rules out the Electro.   I'd have to look up what CC # the YC uses for leslie speed, or if I would have to remap/filter with that same midi solutions box I also have. 

 

So how were you doing this?  Through Midi out of the Stage to the in of the Electro, and filtering out note info?
 

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m doing.