Yamaha YC, CP, CK... what's the verdict?

[stoken6]

28 minutes ago, locture said:

YC is like the do-it-all option, direct competitor with Nord Stage. Same keybed option like CP on 73/88 key versions and the same ap/ep sounds. Dedicated organ engine plus 9 drawbars. Dedicated synth engine. Has lightweight 61 key option and the 61 key is actually waterfall keybed rather than typical semi-weight keys so great organ board.

 

If you have the budget, I'd suggest just go for the YC.

The YC is great (I'm a fan of the lightweight 73-key hammer-action option), but if you need editable synth, you'll need to look elsewhere.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

5 hours ago, locture said:

YC is like the do-it-all option...Same keybed option like CP on 73/88 key versions and the same ap/ep sounds.

 

Not quite same AP/EP sounds, but close. Also expanding on my earlier generalization about which board is best for what, here is a chart I posted a while back:

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/183138-yamaha-ck61-and-ck88/page/13/#comment-2947486

 

I think the only change since then is that the YC now includes the same EQ options as the CK.

 

Then, in terms of organ, YC is best, CK is a substantial step down, and CP has no organ engine at all (just some rompler-style presets).

 

[ewall08530]

   I’m a very satisfied owner of a CK-61 & CK-88. I just turned 74 and I’m still going strong but with the emphasis on light, easy to transport gear that still sounds gig worthy.

 

  I sold a 13 year old Nord Stage 2 76 because of the weight of the board and the anvil case needed to move it properly.  
 

   In April of 2023 I picked up the CK-61 to be a top board option or grab & go board for jams, parties, vacation etc.  I love the interface design of the CK’s as they remind me a bit of the Nord design with plenty of knobs and sliders. I’ve adjusted to the action pretty well and the sounds are fine when I’m using it in a blues, soul band.  I have also managed to get a much improved organ sound by using the insert Rotary effect along with the dedicated Rotary B. Also rolling off the high end and beefing up the lower EQ tames some of the shrillness of 88888888 drawbar settings. And I can save those Roraty, EQ settings to individual organ live sets. I should add that on rare occasions that the organ is featured more, the CK pairs well with Hammond B-3X app on my iPad.  

   My positive experience with the CK-61 led me to get a CK-88 in September of 2023, on sale for $1299. After spending a good deal of time adjusting the sensitivity and offset parameters of the keyboard action I’m pretty pleased with the feel. It’s surely not a dream to play but it’s good for my taste.  
  In addition, I’m monitoring both in Stereo with IEM’s and loving that too. Lastly about 70% of my gigs are solo/duo with piano featured almost exclusively.  

 CK-88 + Piano Teq 8 = ❤️.  

  I realize the CK sounds are a bit of a step down from the Yamaha CP & YC but for my uses, light weight and bang for the buck, I’m very happy with both.  
 

[Paul Woodward]

The YC61 gets a lot of recommendations, but no getting away from the keybed issues which developed on both of mine. Unless Yamaha have announced this has been addressed in later models, I would avoid investing your money in it. In nearly every other respect, it's a fantastic board.

[Stefan011]

20 hours ago, ewall08530 said:

 Lastly about 70% of my gigs are solo/duo with piano featured almost exclusively.  

 CK-88 + Piano Teq 8 = ❤️.  
 

Btw do You run the Pianoteq on laptop or on iphone?

[rogs]

4 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

The YC61 gets a lot of recommendations, but no getting away from the keybed issues which developed on both of mine. Unless Yamaha have announced this has been addressed in later models, I would avoid investing your money in it. In nearly every other respect, it's a fantastic board.

I've had my YC61 for over 3 years now, and still haven't had any keybed problems? .... There is some noise generated by lateral movemnt of the black keys, but it's not loud enough to be of concern - and it hasn't got any worse!

 

Gets played most days .... best board I've ever had!   

 

I just wish they'd made the YC73 a C- C waterfall keybed, and just left the YC88 to have the  weighted keybed.

Playing organ on a weighted keybed just feels very strange to me.

(I know it doesn't bother some folk... )

[ewall08530]

2 hours ago, Stefan011 said:

Btw do You run the Pianoteq on laptop or on iphone?

I run it from my iPad but I also have it on my iPhone too.  

[AnotherScott]

26 minutes ago, rogs said:

just wish they'd made the YC73 a C- C waterfall keybed, and just left the YC88 to have the  weighted keybed.

Yeah. They could do that as an addition to the current YC73... a YC73W. But as far as I can remember, nobody but Nord has done 7x-key versions of the same keyboard with hammer and non-hammer actions, e.g. the Nord Stage 4 73 (hammer) and Nord Stage 4 Compact (waterfall). And even they don't go C-to-C on the waterfall, though Fatar should be able to supply it (it was used in the Numa Organ and Numa Organ 2, even though they used reverse colored keys for the bottom octave).

[Chummy]

6 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

The YC61 gets a lot of recommendations, but no getting away from the keybed issues which developed on both of mine. Unless Yamaha have announced this has been addressed in later models, I would avoid investing your money in it. In nearly every other respect, it's a fantastic board.

There seem to be a 'hit and miss' thing with many keyboards. For example: I bought a Yamaha P-515 which had a fault in one of its speakers which would buzz really hard from inside whenever a specific key (or two) were played. I returned it and turns out the OTHER P-515 at the store had the same issue. Seems like, this was not a common issue at all, even though I found 1 or 2 videos online of people with the exact same problem, with the buzzing sound occuring in the exact same key (turned out something inside the speaker was not assembled properly resulting in internal speaker buzz when stimulated by a specific frequency range).

 

I had an issue with a Kawai ES920 which one day just died. Didn't start at all. It spent almost 6 months at the workshop, they switched to a new motherboard but the new one crapped out very soon too ! Since then I received a new ES920 which lasted for 2 years without a single hiccup.

 

Seems to me, that sometimes specific baches will be affected either by bad QC or dodgy parts, as some people do report no issues with their YC61 for years. If that wasn't the case, then I would expect a near 100% of keybed mortality rate. Similarly to how pretty much EVERY single MP7SE of the first batches had that terminal velocity jump problem with the keys - before Kawai addressed it.

[AnthonyM]

Thanks a lot for the replies, they were most appreciated. I think when it comes to acoustic piano though, it is hard to beat software running on an iPAD. I really do like the Royal Grand and White Grand on the Nord's. The Royal Grand is also binural. So this makes a huge difference in the way the sound is perceived. But the expense is out of my ballpark. With the Nord Stage 4 layering capabilities however, it really makes that keyboard attractive. But for organ, I like the new leslie simulation added to the YC series and the new Set List.

 

Sorry to have gotten off topic.

 

Regards,

  Anthony

[Paul Woodward]

2 hours ago, Chummy said:

There seem to be a 'hit and miss' thing with many keyboards. For example: I bought a Yamaha P-515 which had a fault in one of its speakers which would buzz really hard from inside whenever a specific key (or two) were played. I returned it and turns out the OTHER P-515 at the store had the same issue. Seems like, this was not a common issue at all, even though I found 1 or 2 videos online of people with the exact same problem, with the buzzing sound occuring in the exact same key (turned out something inside the speaker was not assembled properly resulting in internal speaker buzz when stimulated by a specific frequency range).

 

I had an issue with a Kawai ES920 which one day just died. Didn't start at all. It spent almost 6 months at the workshop, they switched to a new motherboard but the new one crapped out very soon too ! Since then I received a new ES920 which lasted for 2 years without a single hiccup.

 

Seems to me, that sometimes specific baches will be affected either by bad QC or dodgy parts, as some people do report no issues with their YC61 for years. If that wasn't the case, then I would expect a near 100% of keybed mortality rate. Similarly to how pretty much EVERY single MP7SE of the first batches had that terminal velocity jump problem with the keys - before Kawai addressed it.

I had YC's about a year apart and I thought this keybed was fixed on the second. Few months later, developed again. As far as I know, they have not yet acknowledged this is a problem. Woody thought the YC61 was the ideal board until he also experienced this...

[Chummy]

Yeah, of course I do not underestimate your personal experience here nor Woody's. The thing is, I am truly wondering whether this is an in built issue design issue, or a mistake that commonly happens due to human error or parts being a "hit or miss". To me It does sound like the second one from reading reviews on different websites, and gathering several reviews that said nothing wrong with the keyboard even after several years of use. I do realize that the YC61 is not as "solid" as the FSX Montage keybed though. It does feel much better to me personally - but the Montage FSX keybed specifically is simply a tank.

 

 

[nadroj]

Finally got to try a YC61. 
 

Great sounds, great interface, awesome effects…but the keys themselves aren’t for me. It felt like a good waterfall at first, but after a few minutes I began to realise how short the travel is, especially on piano, and I really noticed the lack of high trigger point on the organ (unforgivable on an organ focussed board). Just couldn’t do what I can do on my SKX, or even the Nord which was next to the YC. 
 

The YC73 felt much more satisfying to play, but I can’t do organ on a weighted keyboard. 
 

The CK is an excellent auxiliary board, with great sounds, but I couldn’t take the keybed seriously. Especially for organ, I’d break the damn thing after one gig. But again, great sounds in a compact package. 

[Paul Woodward]

37 minutes ago, nadroj said:

Finally got to try a YC61. 
 

Great sounds, great interface, awesome effects…but the keys themselves aren’t for me. It felt like a good waterfall at first, but after a few minutes I began to realise how short the travel is, especially on piano, and I really noticed the lack of high trigger point on the organ (unforgivable on an organ focussed board). Just couldn’t do what I can do on my SKX, or even the Nord which was next to the YC. 
 

The CK is an excellent auxiliary board, with great sounds, but I couldn’t take the keybed seriously. Especially for organ, I’d break the damn thing after one gig. But again, great sounds in a compact package. 

The trigger point is another issue and one that has been raised in Ideascale many times. I think its limited to the physical keybed (cant be addressed in a firmware update).

I had a CK and, while it was a lot for the money, it always felt like a cheap substitute for the YC, but I actually preferred the keybed. Thats only because it didnt 'clatter' after a few months play though 😉

[AnotherScott]

I finally got to play the YC61 and the CK61 side-by-side. My guess is that the two share the same basic keyboard design, except I think the YC is semi-weighted and the CK is unweighted (and of course, the YC keys are waterfall shaped while the CK's are diving board shaped).

[Outkaster]

YC is great.  Three people i know that are good players bought one because they tried mine. I loved the S90 series but these boards are great for what I do now.

[Paul Woodward]

5 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I finally got to play the YC61 and the CK61 side-by-side. My guess is that the two share the same basic keyboard design, except I think the YC is semi-weighted and the CK is unweighted (and of course, the YC keys are waterfall shaped while the CK's are diving board shaped).

So not really the same design then 😉

Seriously though, if you mean the living hinge multiple note thing, they are the same. Bloody awful design that doesn't belong on a pro keyboard. I lost faith in the board when I discovered it had this type of key.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

So not really the same design then 😉

Seriously though, if you mean the living hinge multiple note thing, they are the same. Bloody awful design that doesn't belong on a pro keyboard. I lost faith in the board when I discovered it had this type of key.

More than just the hinge. If you slowly press their keys down, you'll feel that same initial resistance with that little "bump" you need to get past before the tension releases. Their front-to-back responsiveness seems the same as well. So as I said, I think it's fundamentally the same design, with the plastic shaped to waterfall instead of diving board, and, I suspect, the addition of a weight toward the front of the key. Though I suppose it's also possible that the sheer additional plastic added to the front of the key (to create the waterfall rather than diving board shape) could, itself, be the source of additional weight toward the front of the key, even if they added nothing else.

[Paul Woodward]

Interesting to know then why the CK remains nice and quiet while the YC develops the noise, and needs re-greasing to solve it.

[AnotherScott]

45 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Interesting to know then why the CK remains nice and quiet while the YC develops the noise, and needs re-greasing to solve it.

It is an interesting question, since I haven't seen any reports of similar issues developing with the CK. Though also, the CK is years newer, so it could be a matter of time? Though not every YC seems to develop the issue either, and I don't know if their age is a factor. Or whether newer production YCs could be less prone to it than earlier ones. Who knows what the variable is. Maybe they've just learned to use more grease to begin with...?