Enron

[Magpel]

[quote]Originally posted by Magpel: [b]Sorry, it's Micahel Perenti [/b][/quote] Double oops. It's Michael Parenti after all. Gosh darn liberal media sources misled me once again.

[henrysb3]

Remember last year's California energy "crisis". Wasn't Enron a big player in that?

[Flea man]

Synthguy wrote: [quote]I think those orf you thinking that Republicans are in bed with big business clearly haven't heard the truth, but since the media are more than 90% registered Democrats that hardly surprises me. [/quote] They are both in bed with big business, but the Republicans are willing to blow while most of the Democrats enjoy just watching. Davis is telling Democrats to drop the issue because all the facts are not in yet (about this particular scandal). What is known is Bush got more $$$ from Enron than Gore. Bush won. Enron got to hand pick it's own federal regulators (thank you Bush). Enron practiced their own style of business while the Fed. regulators were playing golf (probably @ Enron's Golf course). That's the "truth". (Well, maybe not the golf part ;) ) Flea Man

[Synthguy]

If you think the media is conservative, I find it interesting that almost every story is slanted towards abortion on demand, or gun control/banning, gay special rights, environmentalism, big government, high taxes, bureaucracy over freedom, and so on, things I sincerely doubt conservatives are for. It's pretty clear people will believe whatever they want to, facts be danged. I now return you to your preconceived notions. :D

[Lee Flier]

Geesh. I'm sure Clinton was in bed with Enron. I'm sure Bush is in bed with Enron. "The media" is not conservative and it is not liberal. I see lots of individual articles and/or publications that represent both sides. And many times both representations are so extreme that you have to wonder whether the publication "planted" them there just to get ratings and/or give biased lip service to the "other side". In any case, media outlets are there to make money so if there really is any political bias going on, it's only because that's what they think will sell. I am strictly non partisan, I call the issues like I see 'em and don't care what any politician thinks about it. They all suck and they all have their special agendas which have very little in common with mine. Party politics is just an excuse for people not to think for themselves and have a simplistic cookie-cutter answer for every occasion. --Lee

[Flea man]

Synthguy wrote: [quote]If you think the media is conservative, I find it interesting that almost every story is slanted towards...gay special rights... [/quote] The media is going to write about straight rights?? [quote] environmentalism [/quote] They are going to write about the pro's of a big polluter? Lets see; "Yes Exxon might of ruined a few environments, but we can't impose any regulations/penalties on them as that would hurt profits and trickle down to the gas station attendant who will lose his job...and he has a family of 6 kids and..." [quote] gun control/banning[/quote] They are going to write "more guns for everyone, it is just what the doctor ordered"... [quote] It's pretty clear people will believe whatever they want to, facts be danged. [/quote] What media are you reading/watching? I think it is pretty clear to me that if your a far right wing christian conservative, not much in mainstream media is going to make you happy---Just like if your a far left wing liberal tree hugger. The mass media writes for the masses and tends to give both sides of the story. Sometimes those "slanted" stories have some truth and common sense to them. Maybe that is "slanted" to one person while "Reality" to another. If you want far right conservative, there are plenty of 1 sided media sources for you. Same goes for far left liberals. If you want both sides of the story (slanted or not), you have the mass media of news, 60 Mins, nightline, NPR, P.I., major newspapers, etc. I myself prefer to hear both sides of the story---even if it is "slanted". Any media that would write about "straight rights" would certainly give me a chuckle. Flea Man

[Magpel]

I didn't say the mainstream media was conservative. I just said that it's hogwash to believe that it's liberal. Just ask the true lefties! They disavow the media every bit as much as the far right. Neither liberal nor conservative, but corporate. Make what you will of that.

[Flea man]

Magpel wrote: [quote]I didn't say the mainstream media was conservative. I just said that it's hogwash to believe that it's liberal. Just ask the true lefties! They disavow the media every bit as much as the far right. [/quote] Tell me about it! I thought I was kinda left...until I met a REAL lefty. Man, do they distaste the mass media...you should see all the web newsletters he sent me. It made me realize that the far left can be just as close minded as the far right. But even though I'm neither, I still think we need to have both for balance...they are almost like our media private cops, every once and a while they do bring something to the surface that even the mass media will take notice of. [quote] [b]Neither liberal nor conservative, but corporate. Make what you will of that. [/b] [/quote] That's about right. They are more interested in not losing their advertising revenue (those big Advertisers are always holding the "we will pull our ad..." over their heads, or being sued). Just look at what happened with the Big Tobacco vs 60 Mins story. We must not forget that Mass media is a big business too. They give to both parties...but tend to give to the party that affects them most (regarding free speech) and that is usually the Democrats. Free speach is not really a Republican forte. Flea Man [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: Flea man ]

[Curve Dominant]

Jumping in a little late here, but, I've been following this story in the news lately. This was one big-time scam. This one's for the history books. What these Enron guys pulled off makes anything La Cosa Nostra ever did look like peanuts. And we can be certain of this: George W. is one pissed-off mutherf*cker about this crew, from his home state. I predict he's gonna come down on them pretty hard. The public wants to see these Enron guys in prison uniforms, and I think W is gonna give it to them. It's just a prediction. Any odds? E :)

[alphajerk]

i doubt it, dubya is so far in their pockets he probably wont do a damn thing.

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by gbtank@home.com: [b] To me, this is a sad post. If we're going to hope, couldn't we hope for something good? [/b][/quote] That *was* hoping for something good...

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b] Yep... that's why one of my favorite web sites during the last election was this: http://www.billionairesforbushorgore.com --Lee[/b][/quote] That's a great page....

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by henrysb3: [b]Remember last year's California energy "crisis". Wasn't Enron a big player in that?[/b][/quote] Were they? It'd make sense. I always thought it was "curious" how right after the election an "energy crisis" happens - and suddenly we're talking about spending money on oil companies to go drilling in Alaska. Very curious timing.

[Dogfur]

[quote]Originally posted by Curve Dominant: [b]Jumping in a little late here, but, I've been following this story in the news lately. This was one big-time scam. This one's for the history books. What these Enron guys pulled off makes anything La Cosa Nostra ever did look like peanuts. And we can be certain of this: George W. is one pissed-off mutherf*cker about this crew, from his home state. I predict he's gonna come down on them pretty hard. The public wants to see these Enron guys in prison uniforms, and I think W is gonna give it to them. It's just a prediction. Any odds? E :) [/b][/quote] Yo Curve; I'm betting it goes the other way - GWB will sputter and hide behind references to 401k reform and partisan "witchhunts". My bet is that in Texas Bush SR. is covering tracks, shredding docs and whipping ass, because he probably can be at least implicated, if not charged, with crimes from the scam. Bush Sr., Gramm and the ever silent Cheney go wwaaayy back in the energy industry. ( Although Sr.'s new bag is defense contracting...while we are at war...again...hhmmm...) Sr. is pissed that he was off the hook from people checking out his Presidential records since W repealed the public's right to them under executive order, for "security" recently( A whole other can of f**king worms there!), and now has to deal with this. Dogfur's Top 10 picks: 1) Corrupted politicians weasel out of prosecution, but lose office in upcoming election - medium probability 2) High level Enron execs make backdoor deals to PAC's, shrug shoulders and walk with no punishment - very high probability. 3) Lower level Enron management and Andersen Accounting employees take wrap, despite testimony implicating higher ups - highest probability, almost certain. 4) Mysterious deaths/disappearances occur to people who might testify their knowledge of deeper ties of Enron/Bush Admin. nature. - medium/high probability 5) Screwed Enron employees never see a dime from all the legal proceedings - high probability 6) Democrats drag proceedings through election year, numbing public opinion and hostility in the process - Highest probability, almost certain. 7) Escalation of hostilities in the middle east ( probably Iraq -Phil O'Keefe you were right ) at sensitive times during investigations - Certainty -100% - this will happen. 8)Media drops coverage of investigations to tell about Brittney/Justin/Olsen twins love square or such. - highest probability, almost certain. 9)American people forget about it and elect another bunch of crooked leetches - highest probability, almost certain. 10) The dust clears and real campaign finance reform occurs - nil ( Dogfur circles, squats, relieves himself on his Senator's lawn, kicks with his hind feet to lightly cover the excrement with grass and dust. He trots off, tail wagging as the scene fades with a tattered and torn barely recognizable American flag in the background)

[Curve Dominant]

[quote]posted by Dogfur: [b]The public wants to see these Enron guys in prison uniforms, and I think W is gonna give it to them. It's just a prediction. Any odds? E ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yo Curve; I'm betting it goes the other way[/b][/quote] So, Dogfur, it looks like we got ourselves a bet. Once again: whattdya think the odds are? And for how much? I'll let you open. Anyone else? E :)

[Brian T]

[quote]Originally posted by Curve Dominant: [b]Jumping in a little late here, but, I've been following this story in the news lately. This was one big-time scam. This one's for the history books. What these Enron guys pulled off makes anything La Cosa Nostra ever did look like peanuts. And we can be certain of this: George W. is one pissed-off mutherf*cker about this crew, from his home state. I predict he's gonna come down on them pretty hard. The public wants to see these Enron guys in prison uniforms, and I think W is gonna give it to them. It's just a prediction. Any odds? E :) [/b][/quote] I'll back you on that. Bush will drop da' bomb on them. What if he turned out to be a stand up guy? Think of all the disappointed people. Think about these scenarios. 1. Bush bails out Enron when they come calling. For doing so, he's accused of being an energy stooge and vilified by all who have the agenda to do so. He must be "in on it". He's got to be guilty of "something", right? 2. Bush blows Enron off when they come calling. He gets reamed for not "doing something". He must have been "in on it". He must have something to hide, critics say. He's got to be guilty of "something", right? As it turns out, it's the number 2 scenario. But no matter what Bush or Cheney decided to do, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Because people who didn't vote for them still ain't too happy. And that's America. Regards, Brian T

[beatfreq]

I think if the public were to know what is really going on with "W" and his cronies, the Enron situation would look like kindergarten. It's good to see at least some of the evil doing being found out. Maybe there is still hope that they will not have covered their track so well in other areas, too. At some point even the ineffective US media will have to start telling the truth occasionally. M

[michael saulnier]

Sure the media is up in arms about Enron. But when the next "Media Frenzy" hits, this story will drop off the radar... never to be found. And the "people" won't care. Remember the "savings and loan crisis"? The "collapse of the Russian economy"? How about the recent "energy crisis" in CA and the West? Still checking your mail everyday for anthrax? :eek: BTW, Jennifer Anniston was in a car crash... THAT made the news! :rolleyes: guitplayer

[Curve Dominant]

[quote]Brian T posted: [b]Think about these scenarios. 1. Bush bails out Enron when they come calling. For doing so, he's accused of being an energy stooge and vilified by all who have the agenda to do so. He must be "in on it". He's got to be guilty of "something", right? 2. Bush blows Enron off when they come calling. He gets reamed for not "doing something". He must have been "in on it". He must have something to hide, critics say. He's got to be guilty of "something", right?[/b][/quote] Then there's scenario #3: Bush is genuinely pissed off at these Enron guys, and decides to string them up by the balls. Is W capable of doing that? I met him when he was in Philly, running for president, and based on my impression of the guy in that brief encounter: yes. W has an independent streak. I can see him putting friends of his father's in jail, if it will distance himself from scandal. I would even bet that it was W who ordered Att'y General Ashcroft to recuse himself from the case - that's one less middleman to deal with. I haven't detected any direct connection betweem W and Enron yet. I could be wrong...we'll find out soon enough. I just don't see it, though. Bush Sr was an old-school oil driller. W owned the Texas Rangers. Enron wasn't really an energy company, they were more like an investment bank. I just don't see the connection. But it's still a major embarrassment to the Bush administration. My $$$ are still on W removing the stone from his shoe. [i]"Livarse na petra de la scarpa..."[/i] Eric :)

[not coaster MODERATOR]

Whoa Nellie..... Aren't we jumping the gun in the blame game here? No one on the investigation teams has suggested wrong doing by either the current or past White House gang. They are merely following due diligence by investigating any government corruption. They are still looking for a higher up in Enron who is willing to sing in exchange for leniency. We do know Arthur Andersen is up to their eyeballs in it. Other players will surface as this thing pans out.

[Dogfur]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Curve Dominant: [qb] So, Dogfur, it looks like we got ourselves a bet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah Curve! Step right up, place your bets, puhlaaccee your betsss...We have to solidify predictions and figure out a timeline. I made alot of far reaching predictions ( as is my right as a member of the canine psychic network!) so I'll have to reign them in a bit to match yours. Right now ( please correct me if I'm wrong )it looks like this: Curve: GWB - Rebels against GOP structure, takes Enron execs down, perhaps with Texan energy ties, possible " sacrifice" of old school Bush cronies to avoid implication in scandal. Dogfur: GWB - Wallows in 401k reform and "partisan witchhunt" rhetoric while investigation continues, with soft "justice must be done" gurglings when the shit hits the fan. Negotiates ( from behind the scenes ) Enron execs off with wrist slap if anything, escalates hostilities in middle east to detract while cronies get deals. I do think GWB would sacrifice friends and old school Texan ties to keep clean on this, so that can't be the deciding factor. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Once again: whattdya think the odds are? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The odds are hard to set because of the lack of info - my previous post has my predictions and rough probabilities. Of course the lack of info is what this is all about, heh heh ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And for how much? I'll let you open. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oooh, what to wager on a bbs for audio engineers? Here in Nevada you can bet on just about anything for cash, but this bbs is too classy for that - OK, I've got a CD of studio outtakes and generally embarrassing shit of alot of artists - You know, Buddy Rich chewing out the band, Ray Charles' guitar player freaking out on the gig, Barry White trying to do a PSA, etc...I say we outline some requirements and award the person with the most insight the booty - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anyone else? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come on, folks, lets have some fun at our governments' expense, since I absof**kin'lutely guarantee they are having fun at yours...Post a prediction with a useless wager, win fabulous prizes! What could be better? Still need to set timelines for predictions, and closing actions of govt. Could be long time! What do you think? ( Dogfur drops front paws to ground for playtime, hind legs and ass up, tail wagging vigorously with gambling delight! ) [ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Dogfur ]

[alphajerk]

[quote]Originally posted by guitplayer: [b]BTW, Jennifer Anniston was in a car crash... THAT made the news! :rolleyes: [/b][/quote] really? is she alright? i hate fucking getting in wrecks.

[strat0124]

[quote]Originally posted by alphajerk: [b]i doubt it, dubya is so far in their pockets he probably wont do a damn thing.[/b][/quote] Rumor central has it that Dubya's little face abrasion wasn't inflicted as the White House spin has it. Which would lead us to believe that he really is controlled by someone or another. Quite frankly I have a hard time believing anything outa DC, or the news...... Like the confessions of the Taliban on video....a sophisticated and highly secretive organization leaving that kind of evidence behind?????? Come on! [ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: strat0124 ]

[Dogfur]

[quote]Originally posted by strat0124: [b] Rumor central has it that Dubya's little face abrasion wasn't inflicted as the White House spin has it. [ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: strat0124 ][/b][/quote] I think that the abrasion on Bush's face leads to the logical conclusion that Laura Bush has a fierce right jab. :p

[Dogfur]

Boy, do I know how to kill a relevent thread -sorry!

[good morning]

Nah, it was karma.

[Dan South]

One of the Enron executives, a vice-chairman who resigned his post last May, reportedly killed himself this past evening. He had made $22,000,000.00 on stock options but allegedly had issues with the way that the business was being managed. He was 43.

[tnb]

Dan are we supposed to believe that he had a crisis of conscience? Why now? Why not while they were ripping off their stockholders? I am not buying it.

[alphajerk]

he was "taken out"... he DID have a conscience and was supposed to testify.

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by alphajerk: [b]he was "taken out"... he DID have a conscience and was supposed to testify.[/b][/quote] ... and isn't it funny how it will never be "fully investigated"...