Between real pipe organs and software...

[David Emm]

Check out the Viscount Cantorum Trio Plus pipe organ. Its a progger's wet dream.

 

https://www.viscountinstruments.com/instrument/cantorum-trio-plus/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQPvcsSXZoU

 

These cost plenty, but you get what you pay for, because the sound is impeccable. The 3-manual model is a bit over $6k, with pedals running $1839 to $2270. Prices range up and down in a similar manner for different configurations.
 
This is the first time I can recall a pipe organ being so well-realized as digital hardware. I suspect a lot of smaller churches welcome these, but I also see universities and well-heeled prog types embracing them. A real pipe organ is hellishly expensive to house, build and maintain. This is the natural bridge.

 

I think I'll stick with my samples and Full Swell rousers I tweaked into shape on my Korgs and the D-50. I'm closer to being under the dirt than above it, so I don't have time enough to properly tackle the Ultimate Real-Deal Cyborg Monster Organ Challenge. 😬 😛    

[Baldwin Funster]

"Dude, you need a more authentic sounding pipe organ" said no one ever...

 

Sorry just kidding.

[ksoper]

$8500 for the whole package is a steal.  Sounds great though I'm not sure how a 6" woofer is going to reproduce the good stuff--the 32' reed for example.  This is going to need some quality amplification.  If I can get someone to take this damn C3 off my hands I'll have room for it.  

[Radagast]

1 hour ago, David Emm said:

Check out the Viscount Cantorum Trio Plus pipe organ. Its a progger's wet dream.

This is the first time I can recall a pipe organ being so well-realized as digital hardware. 

[Radagast]

For some reason I can’t add my own comments. Do you mean a digital pipe organ at this price range?  They’ve been around for quite a while.

[The Real MC]

9 minutes ago, Radagast said:

For some reason I can’t add my own comments. Do you mean a digital pipe organ at this price range?  They’ve been around for quite a while.

 

Allen organ had digital pipe organs in the 1960s.

[The Real MC]

That 32 key non-AGO pedal clavier will be hard to play.  The AGO specified a curved pedal clavier for a REASON.

[Tom Williams]

Just now, The Real MC said:

That 32 key non-AGO pedal clavier will be hard to play.  The AGO specified a curved pedal clavier for a REASON.

You took the words right out of my, uh, fingers.  $6K for non-AGO pedals? 

Aesthetically, I would add that the stop tabs are straight outta my late lamented Farfisa Combo Compact, although from a practical standpoint I would probably program all my registrations into the generously provided pistons, reducing the importance of the stop tabs.

[Tom Williams]

8 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

 

Allen organ had digital pipe organs in the 1960s.

Electronic, yes -- and amazingly accurate except for the chimes.  But the digital Allens came a bit later -- early 1970s. 

 

Wonderful instruments.

[niacin]

 

This is my retirement plan, lol.

[niacin]

1 hour ago, David Emm said:

This is the first time I can recall a pipe organ being so well-realized as digital hardware.

it is just the latest version of Viscount’s ‘portable’ Cantorum series, they’ve been around for a while.

[Radagast]

54 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

 

Allen organ had digital pipe organs in the 1960s.

To be precise, Allen organs came out with the first digital musical instrument in 1971.

[Radagast]

37 minutes ago, niacin said:

it is just the latest version of Viscount’s ‘portable’ Cantorum series, they’ve been around for a while.

What sets this apart is that Viscount uses physical modeling in most, if not all, of their organs, instead of sampling.  They call the tech Physis. It can be voiced to sound like different styles of pipe organ building, like French, British, German, etc.

[niacin]

it’s interesting, but the Viscount sample sets have generally been less well regarded than those found in Johannus organs, and if the modelling doesn’t compare well with those - or Hauptwerk - it’s hardly going to matter what the technology is.

[rogs]

I recall hearng Carlo Curley's huge Allen 'touring organ' being played, during a set up for a concert in one of our southern Cathedrals, here in the UK in the late 70s/ early 80s.

( I think it was Winchester -- it was a while ago ).

 

It was an impressive beast, even though the electronics will have limited the resolution of the actual samples, compared to todays' various sampling/modelling techniques.

What made it really impressive was of course the space in which the organ was being used.

 

There were several pairs of loudspeakers employed  to simulate the 'stereo' positioning of the various pipe 'ranks', and the result in that magnificnet reverberant space was truly impressive.

 

Whether the modern digital organs of today would sound even more impressive in that kind of space, I'm not sure? .... there is a tendency for big reverberant spaces to 'blur' the detail of sound, created within the space.

[Tusker]

I had the opportunity to compare a 1980s Rogers Organ with a sophisticated subwoofer system to a 1929 Hill Norman and Beard installation.

 

The large old pipes speak a bit more slowly. The spacial component Rogs mentioned is arresting. It was not as well executed with this Rogers. Also with the old pipes you can hear wheezes, thumps and squeaks which add to the feeling of the instrument. However ...

 

I'd venture to say that 95% of the challenges of reproducing a pipe organ today are in the sound system. A stone building of sufficient size will brilliantly take care of the rest.

 

[Radagast]

18 minutes ago, Tusker said:

 

 

I'd venture to say that 95% of the challenges of reproducing a pipe organ today are in the sound system. A stone building of sufficient size will brilliantly take care of the rest.

 

A good convolution reverb will help a lot.

[Old No7]

1 hour ago, Tusker said:

...95% of the challenges of reproducing a pipe organ today are in the sound system. A stone building of sufficient size will brilliantly take care of the rest.

 

I once sat inside the pipe room of the oldest 3-manual pipe organ in New England housed in a stone church while the Priest played Bach's "Toccata & Fugue in D Minor" after spending an afternoon helping him tune all the pipes -- what a sonic experience that was!  I recall he said some folks liked the sermon and songs, others the pomp and circumstance of the mass -- and a few of the other parishioners: "Could only be reached with the 64 foot pipe..."

 

Old No7

[Mighty Motif Max]

8 hours ago, Radagast said:

A good convolution reverb will help a lot.

I’ve seriously considered a MOD Devices Dwarf, which is a hardware convolution reverb that can load user impulse responses, as an outboard reverb for my organ setup at home. Not super cheap but seems like an incredible option vs running a laptop for a really good church reverb. Currently using an old Digitech S200 box which isn’t bad but certainly isn’t as great as I’d like.

 

https://mod.audio/reverb/

 

[ElmerJFudd]

https://www.hauptwerk.com/features/

 

and what a controller! 

 

 

 

[ksoper]

14 hours ago, The Real MC said:

That 32 key non-AGO pedal clavier will be hard to play.  The AGO specified a curved pedal clavier for a REASON.

A concave, radiating 32-note pedalboard is an option,which I'd happily spend the extra $$$ for. 

[Aynsley Green]

On 7/30/2024 at 11:45 AM, David Emm said:

Check out the Viscount Cantorum Trio Plus pipe organ. Its a progger's wet dream.

 

https://www.viscountinstruments.com/instrument/cantorum-trio-plus/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQPvcsSXZoU

 

These cost plenty, but you get what you pay for, because the sound is impeccable. The 3-manual model is a bit over $6k, with pedals running $1839 to $2270. Prices range up and down in a similar manner for different configurations.
 
This is the first time I can recall a pipe organ being so well-realized as digital hardware. I suspect a lot of smaller churches welcome these, but I also see universities and well-heeled prog types embracing them. A real pipe organ is hellishly expensive to house, build and maintain. This is the natural bridge.

 

I think I'll stick with my samples and Full Swell rousers I tweaked into shape on my Korgs and the D-50. I'm closer to being under the dirt than above it, so I don't have time enough to properly tackle the Ultimate Real-Deal Cyborg Monster Organ Challenge. 😬 😛    

 

For those also Hammond-inclined, the Viscount Legend Soul has the same  'Physis Plus' Pipe Organ tech inside, with limited registrations & tweakability. It sounds bloody spot on, to my ears - a nice bonus to the already impressive Hammond engine. The Transistor organs are suprisingly weak, oddly - clearly an afterthought. 

[Mark Schmieder]

There are other options besides Hauptwerk but I'm too tired to link them as I haven't looked at them in eons, being that I am so happy with VSL's dedicated interface (the previous version left a lot to be desired in terms of not being very organ-like). The licensing and cost for some of these software solutions can be hidden until you start digging in, and compatibility, bugs, etc., can be an issue. But there's little doubt that Hauptwerk offers the most COMPLETE set of organ models for all eras and all regions.

 

I'm not sure how $8500 compares to digital solutions installed in churches as I've never been in a purchasing or consulting role for such decisions. Perhaps a better comparison would be to that discontinued Roland model that was in the same series as their digital harpsichord (which I owned for many years). I strongly considered buying it several times as I think it sounds great, but now it is even hard to find info on it. I'd imagine this Viscount model is a few steps beyond it though. I forget the Roland price.

[Radagast]

4 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

 

For those also Hammond-inclined, the Viscount Legend Soul has the same  'Physis Plus' Pipe Organ tech inside, with limited registrations & tweakability. It sounds bloody spot on, to my ears - a nice bonus to the already impressive Hammond engine. The Transistor organs are suprisingly weak, oddly - clearly an afterthought. 

I listened to a YT video demoing the pipe organ sounds in the Legend Soul.  Sounds nice, except the Celeste stops need tweaking.  The two ranks should be closer in pitch.  And, it needs to have a coupler function to play the pipe organ stops from both manuals on a single manual.