Roland VR760/ Your thoughts and experiences.....

The Real MC · July 30

The jazz band at work had instruments supplied by the company (nice gig if you can get it). One keyboard was the Yamaha CP33, the other was the Roland VR760.

Not a bad organ sound if you use the internal Leslie sim.

But if you want to use an external Leslie sim or real Leslie, then ALL of the sounds - organ, piano, strings, synths, etc - go through the external devices. I never did find a way to route organ to its own output separate from the other sounds. And the interface on the 760 was NOT intuitive. I tried to like it, but gave up.

ElmerJFudd · July 31

1 hour ago, The Real MC said:

The jazz band at work had instruments supplied by the company (nice gig if you can get it). One keyboard was the Yamaha CP33, the other was the Roland VR760.

Not a bad organ sound if you use the internal Leslie sim.

But if you want to use an external Leslie sim or real Leslie, then ALL of the sounds - organ, piano, strings, synths, etc - go through the external devices. I never did find a way to route organ to its own output separate from the other sounds. And the interface on the 760 was NOT intuitive. I tried to like it, but gave up.

Yeah, that always comes up on the VRs, as does the drawbars not sending CCs, and no aux out or split voices to Left / Right. But generally speaking that isn’t why one picks a VR. They are really for the player that doesn’t want to bring anything else. One board and an amp for the night. No Leslie, no Leslie pedal, no computer or module, no stage piano or additional synth. I’m amazed they eventually added support for second manual and pedals. But developers always have a hard time predicting how their customers will use an instrument and what features they are going to grumble are missing.

AnotherScott · July 31

15 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

A guess but me thinks yer gonna pref the 09 or 730 over the older 760. Just know the 09's keybed is 'get r done' at best

14 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Nice improvements in every way, just frustrating they ditched the premium action that was so nice to see on the 760 and 700. But they are lighter to carry.

The 760 had some nice advantages over the 09/730 besides the action. It had aftertouch, connection for a third pedal, full size drawbars, 8 registration buttons instead of 4 (plus you could get to any of them without scrolling, and also call them up over MIDI), separate controls for envelope/filter instead of repurposing the drawbars (which also means your current organ registration won't get messed up by moving the drawbars to operate other functions), a "manual" organ function where the organ sound will instantly reflect the current position of the drawbars (so you can manipulate them as you play with no "catch" or "jump" nonsense), volume knobs for all the sound sections (instead of some only having inc/dec buttons), and your two layered or split sounds can each have their own independent effects. Also I think the COSM amp modeling is more capable than the current amp emulation functions. So you lose a lot with the newer models.

OTOH, the current VR does have some advantages of its own (besides light weight). It has a full VA synth function (fully editable externally), and you can split/layer two sounds from the same section. (On the 760, if one of your split/layered sounds was from the Ensemble section, your other sound could only be from the piano or organ sections.) I'm guessing that some of its auxiliary sounds may be better, though I'm not sure. There's also Frank's freeware PC/Mac editor, which adds a bunch of other functionality (including more sounds and more extensive splits/layers).

ElmerJFudd · July 31

25 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

The 760 had some nice advantages over the 09/730 besides the action. It had aftertouch, connection for a third pedal, full size drawbars, 8 registration buttons instead of 4 (plus you could get to any of them without scrolling, and also call them up over MIDI), separate controls for envelope/filter instead of repurposing the drawbars (which also means your current organ registration won't get messed up by moving the drawbars to operate other functions), a "manual" organ function where the organ sound will instantly reflect the current position of the drawbars (so you can manipulate them as you play with no "catch" or "jump" nonsense), volume knobs for all the sound sections (instead of some only having inc/dec buttons), and your two layered or split sounds can each have their own independent effects. Also I think the COSM amp modeling is more capable than the current amp emulation functions. So you lose a lot with the newer models.

OTOH, the current VR does have some advantages of its own (besides light weight). It has a full VA synth function (fully editable externally), and you can split/layer two sounds from the same section. (On the 760, if one of your split/layered sounds was from the Ensemble section, your other sound could only be from the piano or organ sections.) I'm guessing that some of its auxiliary sounds may be better, though I'm not sure. There's also Frank's freeware PC/Mac editor, which adds a bunch of other functionality (including more sounds and more extensive splits/layers).

Great detail as usual, Scott. What do you think? Can the OP find a lower manual patch he’s happy with for lower/upper split on VR-760 with SRX-07 Ultimate Keys or SRX-97 Jon Lord?

wineandkeyz · July 31

11 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Great detail as usual, Scott. What do you think? Can the OP find a lower manual patch he’s happy with for lower/upper split on VR-760 with SRX-07 Ultimate Keys or SRX-97 Jon Lord?

Just to jump in, there may be suitable organ patches for one side of a split, but IIRC, that patch cannot be routed through the Leslie sim.

mrk7421 · July 31

Yes Scott....how do I get lower manual split bass out of this?And also....how do you know all this stuff. Do you read tech manuals for fun?

mrk7421 · July 31

The real reason I got this was.....I wanted to revisit what Roland was doing with clonewheels back twenty years ago because I remember how much I enjoyed my VK8m module . At that time Roland had the VK8 which had key bounce issues,the VK8m module which would never bypass the Leslie sim without serious outboard modification and this....the VR760 I had a hunch that the 760 would not have keybounce issues and I was also aware of the bass split issue because a friend had a 760 and told me that. So this is the first time I have ever played or heard a 760. I was able to get this for a song as they say. Roland was definitely serious about it's Hammond emulation apparently. It's holding its own and MORE against everything I throw at it. I am also surprised the Roland haters haven't shown up.

AnotherScott · July 31

39 minutes ago, mrk7421 said:

Yes Scott....how do I get lower manual split bass out of this?

Ah, that's another advantage of the new VRs over the 760... support for organ split/lower manual (and even foot pedals). The VR760 will let you do LH bass by putting an "ensemble" bass sound on the left (and then you can put either an organ or piano section sound on the right), but there's no dual-organ sound out of this AFAIK, if that's what you're looking for.

ElmerJFudd · July 31

26 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Ah, that's another advantage of the new VRs over the 760... support for organ split/lower manual (and even foot pedals). The VR760 will let you do LH bass by putting an "ensemble" bass sound on the left (and then you can put either an organ or piano section sound on the right), but there's no dual-organ sound out of this AFAIK, if that's what you're looking for.

When doing a split, it was suggested that adding an SRX card would allow one side of the split to come from the card. So, if for example, one had SRX-07- ULTIMATE KEYS installed, one side of the split could be a Hammond patch, while the other side the internal organ engine in the VR-760.

Here are two patches from that card - they both seem to have the Leslie baked in.

SRX-07-ULTIMATE KEYS patch #69, Blue B

SRX-07-ULTIMATE KEYS patch #87 Absolute B3

Here are audio examples of other patches included on 07-Ultimate Keys

https://soundcloud.com/rolandcom/sets/srx-07-ultimate-keys

mrk7421 · July 31

Well thank you for the ultimate keys examples.I will look into it.And Scott pretty much made it clear that there are not going to be enough any upper lower organ splits coming from a stock760.....which seems unimaginable to me. Hopefully my last split question would be....could the split function trigger another midi sound source? I have several module options. I may have to consider flipping this and try to go back to something like the VK8m or even maybe consider the VR09 ....hoping it really is as good as this organ.....

AnotherScott · July 31

I have no personal experience with how well the SRX card organs would work here. Typically, SRX cards depend on the host keyboard for their effects, so its rotary effect is probably not "baked in", it's probably using an effect from whatever keyboard it was installed in. As it happens, one other advantage of the 760 over the current VR generation is that the "ensemble" section has a very wide variety of available effects... including its own rotary effect, so it sounds like this method may be viable, even if the rotary effect is not identical to the main organ section's effect. Whether speed change will happen to both sounds simultaneously from a single control point, I don't know.

As for a MIDI solution, that could conceivably work too. Unlike the current VRs, the 760 lets you send MIDI from just one side of a split if desired, so that could be useful for combining, say, an internal organ upper sound with an external organ lower sound. But again, this is nothing I have personal experience with.

JoJoB3 · July 31

Just in regard to buying a gig tool, weapon in the bag (casual/society gig weapon):
I'm not seeing why one would overlook and live with such workarounds of an older 760 when the updated 730 (or VERY affordable VR09) offers better/more useful functionality and sound across the board alongside it being way lighter. I guess price of a used 760 might be the main bonus.

The fact it has a very serviceable clone organ is just a bonus to me though (and it has proven itself well). If organ/B3 is forefront the real deal vintage or XK series is called upon (which is also why I'd love to see a VR sound module).
The 760's organ (example above) however...not so hot. Kinda reminds me of an old M1.

*I'm NOT a huge Roland fan btw. No they just made a great answer in regard. Their SP 404 MKII is also really awesome.

AnotherScott · July 31

51 minutes ago, JoJoB3 said:

I'm not seeing why one would overlook and live with such workarounds of an older 760 when the updated 730 (or VERY affordable VR09) offers better/more useful functionality and sound across the board alongside it being way lighter. I guess price of a used 760 might be the main bonus

I listed about a dozen advantages the VR760 has over the 730 in a couple of my posts above. It will depend which things are more important to you.

JoJoB3 · July 31

24 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I listed about a dozen advantages the VR760 has over the 730 in a couple of my posts above. It will depend which things are more important to you.

Ok but I was really talking/replying to the OP (person paying for it).
I have no beef with the 760 (just make sure ya don't pay too much)_

AnotherScott · July 31

Well, if I didn't have to lug it around, I'd much rather have a VR-760 than a VR-730. 😉

mrk7421 · July 31

Why did I get the 760 rather than the 730 etc.?I was looking for THIS sound and this keybed. And yes price was a factor. If this isn't going to work out I will be able to offer it elsewhere for a pretty reasonable price. But it's hard to believe.....no bass split. Were they trying to get you to buy accesory sound cards....not sure. Also my initial experience with VR,,09 was NOT good. With the first CV they offered up...yuck.Havent heard a 730 but.....list price was pretty steep. Plus I like older Roland. 99 percent here seem to have to have the latest....not me.

AnotherScott · August 1

3 minutes ago, mrk7421 said:

But it's hard to believe.....no bass split. Were they trying to get you to buy accesory sound cards....not sure.

Even the extra sound card is a poor solution, e.g. no drawbar control for your lower sound. My best guess is that they were marketing the VK8 to the primarily organ-centric, and the VR-760 as the more all-rounder, and this decision was part of that differentiation. But... who knows.

mrk7421 · August 1

I am back now to finding out if I can trigger a midi organ module from the split section of this keyboard. I did listen to SRX card....not wild about it. I am looking at online manual but there isn't very much info....there is a step that is saying I am supposed to be seeing a UTILITY screen after pushing Edit button....that is not coming up. So I am back to finding out if anyone has triggered midi from the split point.

mrk7421 · August 1

Also....the lower manual audio could probably be run through a mixer....but having on audio source would also be nice of course. Having two sets of audio out would make it hard to gig but I could get by at home. I may want to transfer this thread to a general Roland organ discussion. Because of what I have discovered I strongly think that a lot of people could benefit from the awareness of how good the older Rolands really are. As I said....the ,760 holds its own next to Mojo Viscount HX3 etc. for what I am looking for

AnotherScott · August 1

1 hour ago, mrk7421 said:

I am back now to finding out if I can trigger a midi organ module from the split section of this keyboard.

as I said earlier, "the 760 lets you send MIDI from just one side of a split if desired," which I think is what you're asking for... it's p.70 of the manual, "Determining the MIDI Output Key Range in Split Play" 🙂

ElmerJFudd · August 1

I think the question really is what your use case is for the VR-760. Is it for home or performance? Do you need it to predominantly be a clone-wheel or Swiss Army knife board? Because if the priority is having dual manual organ and/or pedals - there are other instruments, including 700, 730 and 09 that were built to do this but are also still quite focused on being do-it-all boards. Alternatively, there are clone-wheels that focus on organ and don’t bother making compromises for do-it-all functionality.

The Piano Man · August 1

On 7/29/2024 at 7:17 PM, AnotherScott said:

IMO, the older Roland waterfall actions (VK8, VR-700, VR-760) are some of the best organ actions ever made. And somehow, they're still above average for piano as well (as non-hammer actions go).

Agree. I think they are made by Matsushita (Technics) if I remember correctly.

I still have the old EP760 and EP7e models which still use the same keyboard action.

It’s a lovely action and perfect for gigging.

I always just wished for a touch more flexibility in the VR series in terms of splits and layers.

mrk7421 · August 1

To answer Elmer's question this is not a swiss army knife scenario. I am primarily interested in the 760 because of the organ sound engine....sample ,model whatever it is. The VK8 from around this era had multiple triggering issues. The VK8m module will not give you Leslie sim bypass unless you get the unit modified. I was vaguely aware of the split issue but it's been awhile since I heard about it. And Thanks to Scott....I may have missed the page 70 reference the first time. And yes I remembered the older VK8 having good keybed. So I was kind of looking for that. This unit showed up quite unexpectedly and at a low buy it now price. So I am trying to make it pan out.And also of interest ...this has 76 notes if organ ...which I have never seen before. I thought it would be good but I didn't think it would be this good. Killer chorus vibrato and better than you would expect Leslie sim

ElmerJFudd · August 1

4 minutes ago, mrk7421 said:

To answer Elmer's question this is not a swiss army knife scenario. I am primarily interested in the 760 because of the organ sound engine....sample ,model whatever it is. The VK8 from around this era had multiple triggering issues. The VK8m module will not give you Leslie sim bypass unless you get the unit modified. I was vaguely aware of the split issue but it's been awhile since I heard about it. And Thanks to Scott....I may have missed the page 70 reference the first time. And yes I remembered the older VK8 having good keybed. So I was kind of looking for that. This unit showed up quite unexpectedly and at a low buy it now price. So I am trying to make it pan out.And also of interest ...this has 76 notes if organ ...which I have never seen before. I thought it would be good but I didn't think it would be this good. Killer chorus vibrato and better than you would expect Leslie sim

If you send midi from a split to a desktop module what are you thinking of pairing the 760 with?

mrk7421 · August 1

8 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I have Viscount.....Mojo and HX3 modules to pair to this. I would just use 808000000 preset probably nothing else needed. Also am looking at p.70 manual but do not know how to get to Midi External Assign they refer to

mrk7421 · August 2

I am thinking about starting a new topic that would cover Roland tonewheel organs and possibly other Roland keyboards. One of the aspects about posting about this 760 was that I was totally unaware of the expansion cards. I don't think that an expansion card is what I need based on some of the prices being asked but I might be interested in some of the electric piano options. I still am baffled about how to get to MIDI edit assign function as listed on page 70. Since I have been using mostly organ I really haven't gotten to all the pianos,synths etc. but it looks like I will be using a module for left hand split. Another possibility is using a Voce Micro B I have had forever. I want to particularly thank Scott and Elmer for hanging in with this. Another factor I have noticed about the VR 760:is it's CLARITY.Somebthing tells me that other companies might be cutting corners here. Also the Leslie sim does not affect the tonality of the percussion like some Sims. Also the percussion does not get louder like some other as I said..the 760 sim sounds like a different animal than the VK8m as I recall it...................anyway thank you for putting up with all this.

ElmerJFudd · August 2

The JV and SRX expansions are a product of the time period where storage space was limited. There are a lot more sounds just included in the 730 and pcm cards aren’t really a thing anymore. Take the Kurzweil PC4 as an example with 2gb of storage for sounds, they just throw in the PC3 Kore 64 sounds along with big piano sample libraries and other sounds from their Forte.

Price for the SRX boards is supply and demand. There are still a lot of Roland ROMplers in use that accept the SRX boards. As the instruments change hands, people usually pull the cards and sell them separately. But if you see one you want and you are patient, you’ll find one at a decent price. Since you are already open to using a module or two, you may not need one at all.

AnotherScott · August 2

9 hours ago, mrk7421 said:

baffled about how to get to MIDI edit assign function as listed on page 70

P. 63 shows you where the setting is (it's in Registration Common), and p. 65 describes how to navigate those menus ("Basic Procedure").

mrk7421 · August 2

Scott to the rescue! Again....I have trouble navigating internet and online manuals because I am working with a tablet and hotspot from my phone. ,The manuals are a bit unstable and I can't just read them like a book.And once again it can be a bit difficult to comprehend....but I am noting which pages I need to reference. But again.... how I got into all this.A super deal appeared in an ad....I sort of jumped on the opportunity to revisit Roland clonewheels. The other sounds are secondary to the organ. Though the organ sound is great but all of the other Rolands from this period have limitations

or other issues. VK8 had that weird double triggering thing....the keys tended to bounce and make multiple contact. This for some reason does not.I also am seeing that the Leslie sim in this may not be the same as the VK8m. Something is definitely different .I almost never see the ,730 locally but I am very curious about the VR09. They show up from time to time. The 760 organ sound is the one I am looking for how ever I have to get it

AnotherScott · August 2

1 hour ago, mrk7421 said:

I have trouble navigating internet and online manuals because I am working with a tablet and hotspot from my phone. ,The manuals are a bit unstable and I can't just read them like a book

You can download them as PDFs and then load them into a PDF reader, that will probably give you a much better experience.

Roland VR760/ Your thoughts and experiences.....

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