STAX: Soulsville U.S.A.

[CrossRhodes]

A new docuseries on Stax is airing on HBO right now. I'm a few episodes in and really enjoying it. Definitely worth a watch if you dig this era of music!


 

 

[Docbop]

When I got into playing music it was songs from Stax that I learned on from Booker T & MGs Green Onions, Sam & Dave, Otis Redding, Eddie Floyd, and on.   After that came Motown and Atlantic Records for me.

 

 

[mate stubb]

My Stax visit was the highlight of my trip to Memphis, with Sun Records a close second. So much music history.

[Baldwin Funster]

I'm waiting for the youtube leak of the series. Stax, musselshoals, motown. More soul came out of there than anywhere ever.

[El Lobo]

I loved this series. There are 4 episodes and each is interesting in its own way. This was my rock/soul/R&B youth, the music I learned to play in a band. Booker T, Steve Cropper, Duck Dunn, Rufus Thomas, Otis Redding, Sam and Dave, Isaac Hayes.

[HammondDave]

Saw it when it first premiered. Loved it!

[SteveNathan]

I was amused to see they chose “I’ll Take You There” by the Staple Singers as the theme song. The Staples do have ties to Stax, but that record was cut with Muscle Shoals musicians. 

[Dave Bryce]

Steve, did you get to do any work at Stax?

 

dB

[CrossRhodes]

3 hours ago, SteveNathan said:

I was amused to see they chose “I’ll Take You There” by the Staple Singers as the theme song. The Staples do have ties to Stax, but that record was cut with Muscle Shoals musicians. 

Yeah, suppose they could’ve chosen something more representative of their in house musicians but in fairness, the docuseries does focus quite a bit on the label and the owners/employees so as a Stax release it does seem fair game. 

[SteveNathan]

14 minutes ago, CrossRhodes said:

Yeah, suppose they could’ve chosen something more representative of their in house musicians but in fairness, the docuseries does focus quite a bit on the label and the owners/employees so as a Stax release it does seem fair game. 

My feeling is it ignores the fact that Cropper, Duck, Al, Booker, etc are a huge part of why Stax records were so successful. With so many great records to choose from, their choice shows the producers of the Doc were ignorant of the significance, & as is often the case, the musicians are overlooked. 
 

[Baldwin Funster]

1 minute ago, SteveNathan said:

My feeling is it ignores the fact that Cropper, Duck, Al, Booker, etc are a huge part of why Stax records were so successful. With so many great records to choose from, their choice shows the producers of the Doc were ignorant of the significance, & as is often the case, the musicians are overlooked. 
 

Musicians were overlooked back then too. Imagine if all musicians were fully credited on all songs they played. And received royalties for melodies they wrote like I believe the UK does now. Our recollection of these records would be very different. 

[CrossRhodes]

13 minutes ago, SteveNathan said:

My feeling is it ignores the fact that Cropper, Duck, Al, Booker, etc are a huge part of why Stax records were so successful. With so many great records to choose from, their choice shows the producers of the Doc were ignorant of the significance, & as is often the case, the musicians are overlooked. 
 

Have you watched it yet or just don’t like the trailer? There’s a lot of focus on the musicians and plenty of interviews with Cropper, Booker T etc. It really is an enjoyable watch. I wouldn’t let the song choice in the trailer put you off of checking it out.

[Sam Mullins]

I enjoyed it a lot although the focus starts more with the music and increasingly is on politics and business shenanigans as it goes on.  Obviously those things are important historically and as part of the story of Stax.  But no William Bell?  No mention of the failure in promoting one of the most influential non-soul acts Big Star.  Would have liked more coverage of the actual music.  
 

But still worthwhile 

[SteveNathan]

4 hours ago, CrossRhodes said:

Have you watched it yet or just don’t like the trailer? There’s a lot of focus on the musicians and plenty of interviews with Cropper, Booker T etc. It really is an enjoyable watch. I wouldn’t let the song choice in the trailer put you off of checking it out.

Yes I have watched it & enjoyed it, and yes there’s plenty of interview time for Steve & Booker.  The Staples song leads off every episode. It’s not just in the trailer, & it tells me the Doc producers probably loved the artist & records but lacked depth in their understanding of just how those records got made & who made them special. 

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, SteveNathan said:

Yes I have watched it & enjoyed it, and yes there’s plenty of interview time for Steve & Booker.  The Staples song leads off every episode. It’s not just in the trailer, & it tells me the Doc producers probably loved the artist & records but lacked depth in their understanding of just how those records got made & who made them special. 

 

I've been watching some of the reaction Youtubes and seems like once people today look back about 20-25 years everything past that starts blurring together.   They never seem to look up actual years something was done a decade is as close enough.  

[Baldwin Funster]

19 minutes ago, Docbop said:

 

I've been watching some of the reaction Youtubes and seems like once people today look back about 20-25 years everything past that starts blurring together.   They never seem to look up actual years something was done a decade is as close enough.  

In the 70s I wouldn't have been able to tell you about music in the 1940s. Even the 1950s was vague except for Elvis. I know more about that era now but only because I got old and interested in old stuff like old movies and old music. 

[El Lobo]

21 hours ago, SteveNathan said:

My feeling is it ignores the fact that Cropper, Duck, Al, Booker, etc are a huge part of why Stax records were so successful.
 

 

21 hours ago, CrossRhodes said:

There’s a lot of focus on the musicians and plenty of interviews with Cropper, Booker T etc. 

 

16 hours ago, SteveNathan said:

... yes there’s plenty of interview time for Steve & Booker.  ... the Doc producers probably loved the artist & records but lacked depth in their understanding of just how those records got made & who made them special. 

The 1st episode focuses on the musicians who made those records, especially Booker T and Steve Cropper. I think those 2 are featured mainly because they're still alive. The great drummer Al Jackson Jr. died in 1975. Duck Dunn died in 2012. Otis Redding died in 1967 (plane crash in Madison, Wisconsin, where I used to live). Rufus Thomas died in 2001. Isaac Hayes died in 2008. Dave Prater of Sam and Dave died in 1988, Sam Moore is still alive at age 88. You could do a documentary episode on each of these individually -- the people who made soul music and Memphis R&B.

 

The later episodes focus more on what happened to Stax as a company and business, politics, racism, etc. 

[SteveNathan]

On 6/15/2024 at 11:25 AM, Dave Bryce said:

Steve, did you get to do any work at Stax?

 

dB

I did some records with Willy Mitchel, but he came to Shoals. I never worked in Memphis. They didn’t need me 😜

[TommyRude]

The roads of life are littered with those who did not give, and those who did not receive, proper credit

[MathOfInsects]

I saw it a couple of weeks ago and really liked it. I particularly liked the social elements they drew out, which I never fully knew about, even as I played that Wattstax record into dust. 

To put an even finer point on what @SteveNathan is saying, when I heard that Staples Singers tune on the credits, I literally thought to myself, "Oh, I didn't realize they were Stax." It made me decide that they were even though I didn't previously think it was true. So it had the exact effect Steve is saying, at least in my case.

On the flip side, I thought the living Stax folks, musicians and otherwise, were given extensive and respectful coverage, and I started recommending the doc to folks I thought might be interested as soon as I watched it. 

[musicbysterling]

Made me embarrassed to be a Caucasian 

[Doerfler]

Just finished watching. I learned so much. 

[D. Gauss]

On 6/15/2024 at 11:41 AM, SteveNathan said:

I was amused to see they chose “I’ll Take You There” by the Staple Singers as the theme song. The Staples do have ties to Stax, but that record was cut with Muscle Shoals musicians. 

 

Ties to Stax?  Jeez. Stax co-owner Al Bell freakin' wrote it and produced it, Stax engineer Terry Manning mixed it and played all kinds of parts all over it, and it went to number one, released on STAX records.  As for Muscle Shoals, there's a reason for that: 

 https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/classic-tracks-staple-singers-ill-take-you-there

[Joe Muscara]

It's a great documentary and I learned a lot, but even spread out over four episodes, I knew they left out a ton (I have the nine CD box set of singles that covers 1959 - 1968 and I have read the excellent book that comes with it several times). If you really want to know a lot, read Rob Bowman's book Soulsville U. S. A.: The Story of Stax Records. I just started it and the detail he has in there is amazing. I mean, it has footnotes like this:

 

"Axton says $100; Moman thinks $75."

"Wexler thinks it was Williams, while Stewart thinks that it was Reuben."

"Estelle remembers the advance being $1,000. In retrospect, it may be hard to understand how close Stewart and Axton were to bankruptcy. According to Jim, they were having problems even paying musicians for sessions, let alone making the monthly rent. Whatever the actual dollar amount, the Atlantic money was like gold. In Estelle’s words, “That was the biggest thousand dollars I ever saw. It was like today somebody laid a million dollars in your lap. We were struggling.”"

 

Those are just some of the notes from the first chapter.  

[Steve Nathan]

20 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

 

Ties to Stax?  Jeez. Stax co-owner Al Bell freakin' wrote it and produced it, Stax engineer Terry Manning mixed it and played all kinds of parts all over it, and it went to number one, released on STAX records.  As for Muscle Shoals, there's a reason for that: 

 https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/classic-tracks-staple-singers-ill-take-you-there

Geeeeze!  I know everything you've said.  ALL I was saying is that "I'll Take You There, which was arguably their biggest hit was an odd choice given that there are hundreds of other iconic Stax records that were made by Cropper, Jackson, Duck etc.  They surely could have picked something from that body of work instead of one that featured none of the great Memphis musicians that MADE Stax the huge success it was. Al Bell produced it, Terry Maning mixed it, SO WHAT.  My point is that whoever chose that particular record to be the theme for an homage to what made Stax so special probably didn't even know (or care) who played on the record.  For decades, bass players have identified that record specifically for the brilliance of David Hood's bass line.  It's just f*cking tone deaf to make it the Theme Song for this doc.  It freaking blows my mind who panty twisted some folks have gotten over this simple opinion. 

[zxcvbnm098]

On 7/1/2024 at 9:02 PM, D. Gauss said:

 

Ties to Stax?  Jeez. Stax co-owner Al Bell freakin' wrote it and produced it, Stax engineer Terry Manning mixed it and played all kinds of parts all over it, and it went to number one, released on STAX records.  As for Muscle Shoals, there's a reason for that: 

 https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/classic-tracks-staple-singers-ill-take-you-there

Damn, what a great article!

[D. Gauss]

4 hours ago, Steve Nathan said:

Geeeeze!  I know everything you've said.  ALL I was saying is that "I'll Take You There, which was arguably their biggest hit was an odd choice given that there are hundreds of other iconic Stax records that were made by Cropper, Jackson, Duck etc.  They surely could have picked something from that body of work instead of one that featured none of the great Memphis musicians that MADE Stax the huge success it was. Al Bell produced it, Terry Maning mixed it, SO WHAT.  My point is that whoever chose that particular record to be the theme for an homage to what made Stax so special probably didn't even know (or care) who played on the record.  For decades, bass players have identified that record specifically for the brilliance of David Hood's bass line.  It's just f*cking tone deaf to make it the Theme Song for this doc.  It freaking blows my mind who panty twisted some folks have gotten over this simple opinion. 

 

Since Stax was ultimately a record label trying to compete with the big corporations and not a group of musicians (and yes, the MG's are absolutely crucial to the success story and represented as such), I see no problem in choosing what was ostensibly their biggest, highest charting #1 hit for the theme.  I say "ostensibly,"  because Otis Redding's (with the MG's)  "Sittin' On The Dock Of the Bay" was also #1 and iirc sold more, but it was released posthumously and had all his untimely death's baggage attached to it.  Furthermore, since STAX was the little label that made big, lyrically the title "I'll Take You There" plays well to that fact if you're making a documentary about success.  As far as i know, the label's only other Hot 100 (not R&B) #1 was "Shaft" and that too, besides being instrumental (mostly), and also not having any MG's, carries a lot of unintentional baggage because of people's immediate association with the film.    

 

Just curious, knowing that the Sam & Dave hits came out on Atlantic and not Stax (and charted lower than "I'll Take You There"), what, in your opinion if you were making the doc, should the title song have been?