Longevity as a Keyboardist

[El Lobo]

17 minutes ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

I began with three used guitars: an Epiphone, an Squier and a humble Yamaha C40. Just today I have paid a reservation for a Mexican Fender Stratocaster... What will come next? 😅

more guitars ... 

[Polychrest]

On 5/29/2024 at 6:50 PM, drawback said:

Agree with all points above – and I'll add 'try to keep a positive attitude' in general. Not much you can do about arthritis (thumbs for years n years) and I'm at the beginning stage of Dupuytren Contracture which will take me out for hand surgery at some unknown future time. I have a regular piano gig, I'm 72, have never stopped playing and don't plan to... until they carry me out. 

 

On 5/29/2024 at 9:10 PM, wineandkeyz said:

I wish you well in your surgery. I’ve had two surgeries for Dupuytren’s in the past 12 years or so on the same finger (my left pinky). Both surgeries were successful — I was back to gigging within about 4-5 weeks each time — but I suspect it will be back in a few years.

 

On 5/30/2024 at 9:15 AM, re Pete said:

Me too. Right after needing to take statins I started to develop Dupuytrens. Very depressing. 

 

I turned 75 this year.  For several years, I'd been losing function in my left pinkie, an important tool for the rock and blues keyboard stuff I still occasionally flail away at in public.  Dupuytren's Contracture (Viking's Disease, as my surgeon called it) had curled up the digit, immobilized it laterally and planted a chiclet-sized lump of scar tissue at its base.  When I couldn't play left-hand octaves any more, I knew I had to get it fixed.  After a long health care wait, first for assessment and then the operation, I had it repaired last July.  It was outpatient surgery under a local anaesthetic.

 

Here's how I spent my summer after the operation....  

 

1.  Two weeks with my left hand wrapped in a plaster cast.  Big post-op pain receded after a couple of days.  Simple tasks like tying shoelaces and buttoning pants are challenging.  

 

2.  Another week loosely-bandaged.  I can inspect the long zig-zag incision the surgeon used to get at the scar tissue and afflicted tendons.  Yikes.  Low-grade pain and stitch-itch are unwelcome companions, but using the toilet is easier.

 

3.  Week four:  Stitches out, physiotherapy begins.  Although it's gouged and scabby like some miniature diorama of the Russian-Ukrainian front lines around Bakhmut, the finger is working again--my range of motion is back!  Still hurts to move it, though.  

 

4.  Week seven:  The scars have healed, the lump is gone and I'm playing piano and organ again.  A little stiffness, irritation and rust to deal with, but it feels....wonderful.  My wingspan is back.  Now I just need to practice, practice, practice....there's a Carnegie Hall joke in here somewhere.

 

Even though there was more physiotherapy in my future--for a while, I couldn't fit my wedding band on the swollen ring finger adjacent to the surgically repaired one--the operation was a tangible success.  I quickly recovered most of my old keyboard chops and was feelin' stronger every day (cheap Chicago song reference).  In my creative dotage, that was a big gift for which I'm still very appreciative.

 

If you need to get it done, get it done.

 

[ProfD]

4 hours ago, El Lobo said:

I'm going to be contrarian here. The one thing I've learned about life is you don't know how much time you've got.

 

Life is a crap shoot. Enjoy it while you can. 

Right. No magic pill or guarantees.

 

It doesn't cost much to take care of yourself as much as possible both mentally and physically in order to play and enjoy life to the fullest.😎

[El Lobo]

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

It doesn't cost much to take care of yourself as much as possible both mentally and physically in order to play and enjoy life to the fullest.😎

"If I'd known I was going to live this long, I wouldn't have done all those drugs."

[Stan Martin]

I am 70. Classically trained. Bounced around as a full time pro and a weekend warrior since I was 15. 

Pro tip - try to keep your head out of the direct earsight of a Twin Reverb. That was the last time I toured with a rock band (in the 70's)

 

I do scales almost everyday - 4 octaves, all 12 keys, major. Keeps my hands. agile, even when I'm not working on a project.

[El Lobo]

20 minutes ago, StansHands said:

Pro tip - try to keep your head out of the direct earsight of a Twin Reverb.

Always good advice.

 

I'm so glad nobody plays through Marshall stacks anymore, at least nobody I play with. And more and more guitarists favor these 25 watt amps (and less). One guy I know uses one of those lunchbox amps, so-called because they are no bigger than ...

 

Still, always good to keep your ears out of the line of fire.

[David Emm]

On 6/1/2024 at 8:28 PM, El Lobo said:

"If I'd known I was going to live this long, I wouldn't have done all those drugs."

 

 "People ask if I worked hard to get where I am, but no, I did drugs, smoked and drank to get here.

  I do drugs to take me outside of your mundane reality, I smoke so I can focus enough write everything down in a family-friendly form

   and then I have to drink to get up the courage to come out here and present it to you judgmental pricks."  ~ Doug Stanhope 😜

[Montunoman 2]

If you’re so inclined to settle down with a life partner, that person should be supportive of your musical endeavors. 

I had a friend who was a very good pianist. Although he played very well, he wanted to improve and keep growing, but whenever he practiced his wife would always complain, saying. ‘ why do you practice? You already know how to play the piano.”, 

 

Being a musician, even as an amateur is a time commitment, that many people don’t understand, appreciate, or even respect. Life would be quite miserable with an unsupportive partner. 

[ProfD]

4 minutes ago, Montunoman 2 said:

Being a musician, even as an amateur is a time commitment, that many people don’t understand, appreciate, or even respect. Life would be quite miserable with an unsupportive partner. 

That's why so many musicians choose to marry their craft.😎

[El Lobo]

 

54 minutes ago, Montunoman 2 said:

If you’re so inclined to settle down with a life partner, that person should be supportive of your musical endeavors. 

My (late) wife was always supportive of my musical adventures. We were together for 44 years. My first wife was not supportive. When we were dating before getting married, she called my gig calendar her "shit list." If you're going to have a life partner and play music, having a partner who is supportive makes all the difference in the world.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, El Lobo said:

My first wife was not supportive. When we were dating before getting married, she called my gig calendar her "shit list." 

That was a major red flag.  She should not have gotten a ring....neither in hardware or another phone call.🤣

 

The 1st thing a potential life partner should know is any pre-existing conditions....being a musician full stop qualifies.😁😎

[Synthaholic]

On 5/29/2024 at 3:47 PM, CHarrell said:

All of this got me thinking: as long as I have arms and hands, I want to play the keys for the rest of my life. I know there's a fair amount of people here who've been playing actively for decades, and are now in their golden years. For those people, what did you do, do you do, to maintain your playing ability over the years? I'm only 30 now, but I want to be proactive and take potential steps now so I can be like you as I advance in age! 

Are you a homeowner? Are you planning to be? Consider yard work in any home buying decisions. I've done way more than my share over the decades, and I never considered the effect on my hands until about 15 years ago. I would love to get back all of the wear and tear from hedge trimmers, loppers, chain saws, and vibrating lawn mowers. I could never justify paying some other man to mow my lawn, and I actually enjoy a lot of it. But it takes a bit of a toll. And I think this could apply to a few other duties or hobbies, too.

[GovernorSilver]

On 6/1/2024 at 4:55 AM, Jose EB5AGV said:

I have a question for you which this thread has triggered... Do you think playing guitar is detrimental to playing keys in the long run?. Because I am finally getting serious on my attempt to play the guitar and, at 56, I wonder if maybe is the wrong move, as my main instrument is the keyboard 🤔

 

I too am a victim of double GAS.  I own more guitars than I actually need, and same problem with keyboards/synths.  😀

 

There is no denying that every hour you spend on guitar was an hour you could have spent on the keys.   Whether this or not this is truly a detriment to you depends on what you hope to achieve musically, how you wish to express yourself musically in various situations, etc.   For example if your main genre is pop music, are you being asked to play keyboard solos like Jesus Molina on every song?  Probably not.  And it's not like you'll be asked to solo on guitar like Matteo Mancuso or Isaiah Sharkey on every song either.

 

If you have limited time to devote to guitar playing but want to do it anyway, you could probably get a lot of mileage of focusing on rhythm guitar playing.  Rhythm guitar is a desirable skill to have for any band situation.  

 

Egberto Gismonti and Ralph Towner developed skills on both instruments.   That said, I notice both musicians stuck to acoustic guitar playing, which simplified their lives as guitarists quite a bit - once you get into electric guitar amplification, effects, etc. those things can be potentially endless distractions, and thus time lost, from actual music making on the guitar.  

[jazzpiano88]

1 hour ago, Synthaholic said:

Are you a homeowner? Are you planning to be? Consider yard work in any home buying decisions.

 

OT, but this is killing me!    I've got the dream acreage but the hired-out the $200 per mowing kills me during peak growing season!    It's beautiful though!

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, Synthaholic said:

Are you a homeowner? Are you planning to be?

 

I'm a 30 year old musician in America, I don't have to worry about that anytime soon. 😉

[El Lobo]

On 6/1/2024 at 1:55 AM, Jose EB5AGV said:

I have a question for you which this thread has triggered... Do you think playing guitar is detrimental to playing keys in the long run?. Because I am finally getting serious on my attempt to play the guitar and, at 56, I wonder if maybe is the wrong move, as my main instrument is the keyboard 🤔

 

24 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

I too am a victim of double GAS.  I own more guitars than I actually need, and same problem with keyboards/synths.  😀

 

There is no denying that every hour you spend on guitar was an hour you could have spent on the keys.   Whether this or not this is truly a detriment to you depends on what you hope to achieve musically, how you wish to express yourself musically in various situations, etc.   

Consider that playing the guitar can actually transfer to improvement in your keyboard playing. I have double GAS too. I have many keyboards and many saxophones. (I only own a couple of guitars now, but I used to have more.) I played rhythm guitar as a young rock 'n' roller, but no longer. I've played sax in bands for (gulp) 60 years. I started playing keyboard in my main band 20 years ago, in my late 50's. I got better on keys over the years but I'm still a very mediocre keys player. However, the more keys I played, the more developed I got in my sax playing. I moved away from pentatonics or staying in minor blues scales and got more into playing the 2nd and the 6th and chromatic runs, even finding the sharp 1 (b 2) in those 9th chords, etc. I would say that this was a direct result of thinking as a keyboardist about sus and diminished chords and 11ths and 13ths etc. And I could immediately think in chords on the keyboard because I learned to think in chords on the guitar. I can see that the reverse could easily be true -- that your knowledge of the keyboard could transfer something to your understanding of what to play on a guitar or on the way you learn and develop on guitar. I think something that many of us know and understand is that, if you get music and how it works, you can learn other instruments fairly well and fairly easily. This is not always true because you need to develop specific skills to play any instrument well. I can't play brass instruments (valve horns) because to me it's like learning to speak Russian. But the transfer from chording instruments, guitar to keyboard or vice versa, is fairly good and doesn't require an embouchure. I can play all the saxes well but never could get a good embouchure for flute so I don't play that. Just a different point of view about learning to play another instrument later in life ... 

[Synthaholic]

28 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

I'm a 30 year old musician in America, I don't have to worry about that anytime soon. 😉

Ha! Well, take it as general advice. I have a buddy with bad hands from a lifetime as an auto mechanic. He's not a musician, though.

[Jose EB5AGV]

3 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

I too am a victim of double GAS.  I own more guitars than I actually need, and same problem with keyboards/synths.  😀

 

There is no denying that every hour you spend on guitar was an hour you could have spent on the keys.   Whether this or not this is truly a detriment to you depends on what you hope to achieve musically, how you wish to express yourself musically in various situations, etc.   For example if your main genre is pop music, are you being asked to play keyboard solos like Jesus Molina on every song?  Probably not.  And it's not like you'll be asked to solo on guitar like Matteo Mancuso or Isaiah Sharkey on every song either.

 

If you have limited time to devote to guitar playing but want to do it anyway, you could probably get a lot of mileage of focusing on rhythm guitar playing.  Rhythm guitar is a desirable skill to have for any band situation.  

 

Egberto Gismonti and Ralph Towner developed skills on both instruments.   That said, I notice both musicians stuck to acoustic guitar playing, which simplified their lives as guitarists quite a bit - once you get into electric guitar amplification, effects, etc. those things can be potentially endless distractions, and thus time lost, from actual music making on the guitar.  

 

Well, as a late beginner on keyboard playing (at 50, now 56), and being it a hobby for me (even when our band is paid, if not too much 😉), I am working towards become a fuller musician. That is the reason I continue assisting to music theory classes (now focusing on harmony and composition) and want to add other instruments to my arsenal.

 

And, yes, I won't be asked to play complex solos in any of them 😅. This doesn't mean that I won't pursue becoming a better player, but with no pressure.

 

About guitar related gear, time will tell. Now I have the basics and that is enough to learn. One of my projects is use my Boss RC-600 looper along guitar and keyboard. And perhaps adding some percussion (for that I have some Maschine hardware). As I have told, I am not in a hurry. But also don't have so many years left, so I need to be disciplined and make good use of the practice time.

[GovernorSilver]

20 hours ago, El Lobo said:

 

Consider that playing the guitar can actually transfer to improvement in your keyboard playing. I have double GAS too. I have many keyboards and many saxophones. (I only own a couple of guitars now, but I used to have more.) I played rhythm guitar as a young rock 'n' roller, but no longer. I've played sax in bands for (gulp) 60 years. I started playing keyboard in my main band 20 years ago, in my late 50's. I got better on keys over the years but I'm still a very mediocre keys player. However, the more keys I played, the more developed I got in my sax playing. I moved away from pentatonics or staying in minor blues scales and got more into playing the 2nd and the 6th and chromatic runs, even finding the sharp 1 (b 2) in those 9th chords, etc. I would say that this was a direct result of thinking as a keyboardist about sus and diminished chords and 11ths and 13ths etc. And I could immediately think in chords on the keyboard because I learned to think in chords on the guitar. I can see that the reverse could easily be true -- that your knowledge of the keyboard could transfer something to your understanding of what to play on a guitar or on the way you learn and develop on guitar. I think something that many of us know and understand is that, if you get music and how it works, you can learn other instruments fairly well and fairly easily. This is not always true because you need to develop specific skills to play any instrument well. I can't play brass instruments (valve horns) because to me it's like learning to speak Russian. But the transfer from chording instruments, guitar to keyboard or vice versa, is fairly good and doesn't require an embouchure. I can play all the saxes well but never could get a good embouchure for flute so I don't play that. Just a different point of view about learning to play another instrument later in life ... 

 

I have indeed created some chord progressions on guitar that I later adapted to keyboard.  Cycles of 4ths and 5ths are so easy to find on guitar.

 

I had a piano teacher try to teach me ornamentation, such as grace notes and trills, on the piano, as part of a bigger lesson about how to play blues and jazz melodies.  I didn't really get it until I worked on similar ornamentation on the guitar, then brought that to my keyboard playing.  

 

Clifford Brown's solo on Sandu was the first that I tried learning on keys first rather than guitar.  I don't know why I didn't think of trying this before.  For that starting Bb note, there is only one key on a keyboard to play, whereas on guitar there are multiple frets where that same pitch can be found.   Learning solos/melodies on keys first, instead of on guitar first, lets me focus more on the notes and less on the note locations.  The downside is I have a harder time playing the melody smoothly on the keys compared to guitar, but I'm fine with that tradeoff.  Having a good quality melodica like my Suzuki M-37C increases the fun factor, allowing me to approximate horn dynamics more than just playing a piano, as well as giving me opportunities to stand up and take a break from sitting on the piano stool.

 

 

[kpl1228]

On 5/29/2024 at 4:29 PM, David Emm said:

 but avoid snorting a line of coke from an intimate section of a stripper.

Does that make her part of the band? If so, she'd better help with the tear-down.

[Stokely]

On 6/2/2024 at 11:47 AM, El Lobo said:

Always good advice.

 

I'm so glad nobody plays through Marshall stacks anymore, at least nobody I play with. And more and more guitarists favor these 25 watt amps (and less). One guy I know uses one of those lunchbox amps, so-called because they are no bigger than ...

 

Still, always good to keep your ears out of the line of fire.

I have some musical regrets, like not sticking with guitar.  Right up there, if I could go back in time to slap my younger self, would be to tell him to get the hell out of loud practice rooms.  How many hours I spent crowded into small spaces with drums and amps....gah.    Gigs were loud too, but back then there were no IEMs.

I have zero tolerance for it now.  Once in a while we get stuck on a gig where I can't use my IEMs and I'm closer than I'd like to the drummer, but at least there are no amps (we all run direct).

[Tom Williams]

Well, this thread just became a bit more relevant to me: Tuesday I was diagnosed with Myasthenia Gravis, an autoimmune disorder that permanently affects eyesight, strength, and stamina.  Fortunately, it's not progressive, and (almost) never fatal. 

 

Now I am wondering if that's why the action on my just-acquired Young Chang baby grand felt stiffer than I expected.  There's a certain poetic irony in waiting 40 years to get a piano I love to play, and (just maybe) losing the strength to play it.  This may also explain my essentially abandoning my PX-5S due to its heavy action -- perhaps I've had MG for several years and not realized it.

</whine>

 

OTOH, I have a university hospital with pretty good medical care, a good selection of synth- and semi-weighted keyboards with more sounds than I can ever catalog, a band that comprises 80% music readers (which saves tons of time dividing up harmony parts), a garage in which to practice, and a gigabit internet connection to connect with the likes of this bunch.  So I've still got it pretty good.