Has Roland ever replaced the XP30?

[Dave Bryce]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 Like any other feature - having accurate data on what users want and predicting what they will open their wallets for is the challenge.  

 

True…but, as you observed, getting “accurate” data is only part of the battle.  Interpreting it to suit the instrument in question is also not a lot of fun.

 

Then once you’ve decided that you wanna take a chance on the 76 key thing, there’s this other decision - semi-weighted synth action? Fully weighted?  Hammer action?  No matter which way you go, you’ll probably be second-guessed.

 

 

dB

[GovernorSilver]

Since Juno X was mentioned, I'll mention I got an email from Sweetwater saying its currently $200 off.  3 other Roland synths are also currently discounted at multiple stores.

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

The Juno DS seems to me to be more of an XP than a juno.

 

In fact, it is also marketed as an XPS-30.

 

Juno started as a low-end (Jupiter alternative) analog synth (e.g. Juno 6, 60, 106). Then the name was used for low-end (Fantom S/X/G alternative) sample-based board (e.g. Juno Stage, D, DI, DS). Now they still have the Juno DS but have also added the Juno X, which although based somewhat on the current Fantom, is basically a VA take on the old analog Junos (though it does still include a sample-based sound library). So depending on which model you're looking at, a Juno could be a classic analog-style synth, or more of a rompler-style board.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

36 minutes ago, Dave Bryce said:

 

True…but, as you observed, getting “accurate” data is only part of the battle.  Interpreting it to suit the instrument in question is also not a lot of fun.

 

Then once you’ve decided that you wanna take a chance on the 76 key thing, there’s this other decision - semi-weighted synth action? Fully weighted?  Hammer action?  No matter which way you go, you’ll probably be second-guessed.

 

 

dB

Too many people to please! 

[David Emm]

7 hours ago, Ibarch said:

Pulled my U-20 from storage yesterday to find the curse of the red goo had struck. Fortunately due to the angle of storage it seeped away from the main board, not into it. The keyboard noted up first time and sounds working perfectly over Midi. The keybed needs a lot of work though.

 

UGH! Hey, you! I had a mouthful of hoagie when I saw the shot of the red goo! Thanks a pile! 🤨😁

 

The XP-30 was a dreamboat. I was gently muscled into a very nice trade, but I would have been far better off keeping it. The range of sounds & welcoming keybed were impressive. The XP-50/80 GUIs were too fidgety; the 30 was right in the pocket for me as a sort-of pianist. I became a Korg man because their company voice hit the most marks for me, but I still see the XP-30 as a high point. The Juno-X is probably as close as Roland will come to a re-release, with the market being mostly controllers and near-flagships now. The XP-30 was the first "VST in a box," IMO. Shweet.

[Ibarch]

26 minutes ago, David Emm said:

 

UGH! Hey, you! I had a mouthful of hoagie when I saw the shot of the red goo! Thanks a pile! 🤨😁

 

The XP-30 was a dreamboat. I was gently muscled into a very nice trade, but I would have been far better off keeping it. The range of sounds & welcoming keybed were impressive. The XP-50/80 GUIs were too fidgety; the 30 was right in the pocket for me as a sort-of pianist. I became a Korg man because their company voice hit the most marks for me, but I still see the XP-30 as a high point. The Juno-X is probably as close as Roland will come to a re-release, with the market being mostly controllers and near-flagships now. The XP-30 was the first "VST in a box," IMO. Shweet.

 

I kept looking at the XP range but with a home and young family to pay for I could never justify replacing my U-20. It gave me 15 years of solid service before I eventually moved over to an RD-300sx. 

 

Having got a Fantom 0 last year, I finally obtained my 16 parts and all those Roland sound libraries. 

 

I would say that with  the Fantom 06 and/or the Juno DS they have delivered a modern successor to the XP-30. What is still missing that would not be covered by either of these boards - and be distinct enough to make up a new XP product line? 

 

 

 

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

I’m really happy with my FA 07 for most of the reasons people seem to like the XP 30 and similar synths. Good synth action (specifically on the 76 version), quick interface for selecting and editing sounds, good variety of high quality sounds, complements other keyboards nice and fits easily on top of just about any rig. Sure the external power supply and plastic build isn’t ideal, but it’s held up fine after lots of gigs. 

[ElmerJFudd]

Given the choice… 

 

Juno-G, Gi, Juno-Stage, Juno-Di, Juno-DS or Juno-X?

[TJ Cornish]

I still have my XP-80 - it’s in the basement for my kids to play on. I will have to take a look for the red goo - as far as I’m aware mine is completely fine including a working floppy drive. It was the first board I really understood, and I happily upgraded to the original Roland Fantom - until I tried the board and found it worse than the XP-80 in several material UI ways and sold it.

 

I looked at the XP-30 and there were some attractive things, but the 61 keys was a dealbreaker, and by that time had moved on to a Kurzweil. I have kept the XP-80 out of sentimentality, but I don’t miss my other boards of that era - Yamaha EX5 (this has a cult following but the thing was so unbelievably underpowered it was pretty useless for anything other than one sound at a time), Alexis QS series, original Korg Triton. We are spoiled today - virtually unlimited memory and CPU power means anything for sale today sounds good and has enough power to at least be reasonably useful.

 

 

[xp50player]

The Fantom O series would be the best option. I have had an XP-50, XP-30 and the 2019 Fantom, as far as Roland. Many companies are doing external PSU on entry level boards now and it’s just the way it is. I would have gladly not paid the money to have my XP-50 internal PSU replaced. The XP50/30 had attached power cables, which is even more annoying than having an external PSU, so I don’t see what the big deal is. If it’s not “pro” enough, spend the pro money and get the flagship. Of course the O series action is not as good as the current flagship, but it’s probably decent compared to the 25 yo XP-30. The affordable options we have in this current market would have been like a Fairlight to us back in the day. Having now like 2000 user patch storage, instead of bumping up against the stupid 128 internal limit for years and years?   

[ksoper]

I bought an XP-30 not for its sounds, though it had a ton, but as a midi controller to replace the fragile and generally frustrating Studiologic SL-161. I can't say I was a huge fan of the sounds on the 30. Grainy, gauzey. But it could do splits which is what I needed. Built like a tank and very affordable. It made an enormous difference in my rig. 

[AROIOS]

13 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

I always thought they had the same sound engine - the JV1080. The sound data was certainly compatible, notwhithstanding some model-specific diffs, e.g. # of outputs.

1080/2080/1010/30/50/60/80 are the "Super JVs". He might be referring to the original JVs (JV80/880/90/1000 etc)

[RABid]

I once asked a Roland rep why the 7 in the various lines were always a lot more than the 6, with a step up to the 8 being only a bit more. He said it is because the 6 and 8 are big sellers, and the 7 does not sell nearly as many units. Thus, there is a bigger up charge to recover the RnD and small runs.

[Baldwin Funster]

4 hours ago, RABid said:

I once asked a Roland rep why the 7 in the various lines were always a lot more than the 6, with a step up to the 8 being only a bit more. He said it is because the 6 and 8 are big sellers, and the 7 does not sell nearly as many units. Thus, there is a bigger up charge to recover the RnD and small runs.

Another reason may be that Roland's typical 61 keybed is shorter front to back by close to an inch than the 7x keys at least on the DS and I bet everything else.

[Reezekeys]

I used an XP50 as my main board for over ten years. Fully stuffed with expansion boards (Session, Keyboards of the 60s & 70s, forgot the other two!). I remember the keybed as being pretty bad - "mushy" would be my description, if that conveys anything. I got used to it though. When I first switched to a laptop/controller setup I bought a JV1010 module as a backup - it fit nicely in my accessory case. I still have that 1010, and set it up every few years to make sure it still works and run through some of the patches. Unfortunately it must be edited from a computer, and sw options for modern Macs are very limited. It's surprising to me how many of those JV patches still sound pretty good - usually the more synth-like ones (ironic since it's a rompler). The acoustic instrument emulations don't hold up as well compared to what we're used to hearing now, of course.

[ElmerJFudd]

30 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

I used an XP50 as my main board for over ten years. Fully stuffed with expansion boards (Session, Keyboards of the 60s & 70s, forgot the other two!). I remember the keybed as being pretty bad - "mushy" would be my description, if that conveys anything. I got used to it though. When I first switched to a laptop/controller setup I bought a JV1010 module as a backup - it fit nicely in my accessory case. I still have that 1010, and set it up every few years to make sure it still works and run through some of the patches. Unfortunately it must be edited from a computer, and sw options for modern Macs are very limited. It's surprising to me how many of those JV patches still sound pretty good - usually the more synth-like ones (ironic since it's a rompler). The acoustic instrument emulations don't hold up as well compared to what we're used to hearing now, of course.

A ton of these sounds are in Zenology now.  And they reside in the XV-5080, Integra-7 and many others, even the Juno-X. Lots of useful stuff - in a pinch and even the perfect sound depending what we’re emulating.   But yeah, there are much better samples and modeled instruments that are substantially more realistic in more recent attempts - especially from software developers.  

[Reezekeys]

33 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

A ton of these sounds are in Zenology now.  And they reside in the XV-5080, Integra-7 and many others, even the Juno-X. Lots of useful stuff - in a pinch and even the perfect sound depending what we’re emulating. But yeah, there are much better samples and modeled instruments that are substantially more realistic in more recent attempts - especially from software developers.  

 

Absolutely. I think these Roland recreations are all great If you're the nostalgic type. However, technology wrt electronic music instruments has advanced, oh, a tiny bit since the 1990s! Sound-wise, my eight-year-old iPhone can give me everything I ever got from my XP50, with either better, or at minimum, similar quality. I understand that some keyboardists and producers need, or just want, to recreate the "sounds of yore" or Roland wouldn't be offering them up today. Great to have the choice.

[Baldwin Funster]

6 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

my eight-year-old iPhone can give me everything I ever got from my XP50, with either better, or at minimum, similar quality

What apps do you use to get roland sounds? I haven't found any ios xp50 apps or even jv ect..

[Reezekeys]

When I said "my eight-year-old iPhone can give me everything I ever got from my XP50", I was speaking in general terms as to the kinds of sounds - not specific sounds from those early Roland machines that I could duplicate in the phone! Although, If there was an old JV1080 sound I had to have, I would use Logic's autosampler to turn it into a Logic sampler instrument (.exs), which Virsyn's AudioLayer iOS app can import.

[Reezekeys]

To clarify, I have no actual need for "Roland sounds." When you're playing mostly jazz & r&b (i.e., old music!), it's 90% bread & butter acoustic and electromechanical emulations I require - what most any 1990s-era keyboard couldn't do very well (compared to today). Synth-wise, I use KV331's SynthMaster One on my i-devices - I find that a really nice sounding iOS synth with lots of sonic possibilities. Whether or not it can recreate any "Roland sound", I wouldn't know. I do know I'm covered for anything I need - at least for now.

 

And those two expansion boards I forgot - pretty sure they're the World and Pop. The Session piano was my first stereo-sampled piano and made me happy to lug my XP50 and two Mackie SRM450s to any gig I had back in those days! The Roland sounds served me well back then. Today - well I'm not the nostalgic type, I guess.

[ElmerJFudd]

21 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

To clarify, I have no actual need for "Roland sounds." When you're playing mostly jazz & r&b (i.e., old music!), it's 90% bread & butter acoustic and electromechanical emulations I require - what most any 1990s-era keyboard couldn't do very well (compared to today). Synth-wise, I use KV331's SynthMaster One on my i-devices - I find that a really nice sounding iOS synth with lots of sonic possibilities. Whether or not it can recreate any "Roland sound", I wouldn't know. I do know I'm covered for anything I need - at least for now.

 

And those two expansion boards I forgot - pretty sure they're the World and Pop. The Session piano was my first stereo-sampled piano and made me happy to lug my XP50 and two Mackie SRM450s to any gig I had back in those days! The Roland sounds served me well back then. Today - well I'm not the nostalgic type, I guess.

Different gigs, purposes and needs.  A lot of forum members are playing in cover bands and looking to match what they hear on the recording - the Roland ROMplers are great for this and can be had for little money given the time that’s passed.
 

For me one or a few great sounding modern acoustic and electric piano sounds and I’m happy.  If I have to do a pit orch job - MainStage.   For a pop/dance band playing decades of hits - the nostalgic sounds are perfect.  It’s not my favorite gig, but since I sold my XP-80 and JV-2030 some moons ago I’ve been thinking Zenology would be handy.  

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

Another reason may be that Roland's typical 61 keybed is shorter front to back by close to an inch than the 7x keys at least on the DS and I bet everything else.

I believe that's true on the Juno DS and the (discontinued) FA, but not Fantom or Fantom-0, where I think they use the same actions on the 61 and 76. I think the only other model available in a 61 and a 7x is the VR09/VR730, where the actions are different, but both are on the short side.

 

In the case of DS, FA, and VR, I believe the 7x-key actions (but not the 61s) are made by Fatar. So the very fact that's an entirely different action from the 61, outsourced to a different company, can also play into the price differential. It's not simply more or fewer of the same keys.

 

1 hour ago, Baldwin Funster said:

What apps do you use to get roland sounds? I haven't found any ios xp50 apps or even jv ect..

 

Roland used to have some of their classic sounds available in their Sound Canvas app, but they've discontinued it.

[Reezekeys]

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Different gigs, purposes and needs.  A lot of forum members are playing in cover bands and looking to match what they hear on the recording - the Roland ROMplers are great for this and can be had for little money given the time that’s passed.

 

Understood. I don't do those kinds of gigs (anymore) but if I did, I'd use whatever synth resources I had to get as close as I could to those sounds. I know there have been threads with the subject of cover bands that insist on note-for-note faithfulness to original recordings, which I assume would also mean sound-for-sound faithfulness. Hey if that floats your boat, great. I do think it's a bit of a stretch to think that in 2024, a keyboardist would want to schlep a rack with old JV modules just to get the exact sound on Jump or Beat It. Is this a thing though? Am I out of it and are cover bands' keyboardists actually doing this?

[Baldwin Funster]

22 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Understood. I don't do those kinds of gigs (anymore) but if I did, I'd use whatever synth resources I had to get as close as I could to those sounds. I know there have been threads with the subject of cover bands that insist on note-for-note faithfulness to original recordings, which I assume would also mean sound-for-sound faithfulness. Hey if that floats your boat, great. I do think it's a bit of a stretch to think that in 2024, a keyboardist would want to schlep a rack with old JV modules just to get the exact sound on Jump or Beat It. Is this a thing though? Am I out of it and are cover bands' keyboardists actually doing this?

Actually yes. More than ever. Not me, I now play blues and old soul only but I would play some head east if the op arose. But there is somewhat of an ultra retro thing with the school kids playing dads and granddads music which is one reason why I dropped it. When some youngster plays a classic tune it diminishes the mystique somewhat making it too ordinary to be exciting to see an old guy do it.

[sunspot]

I still have my XP-50 purchased from a dude on craigslist too long ago to figure out.  It's standing in a hard case in my studio storage closet, blown electrolytic caps and batteries probably happily eating away at the circuit boards while they party like it's 1999.  The last time I powered it up several years ago and the display still actually worked, I was pretty amazed at how good I thought some of the patches sounded, in an inspiring way.  However...a truly, truly craptastic keybed...abysmal IMO, and to this day I have no idea why I actually bought the thing when I could have got a JV-1080 instead.  Dumb dumb DUMB AND DUMBERER.

 

[Reezekeys]

I got one of the first batches of XP50s and it died the first gig I used it on. The store took it back and sent me a new one and that lasted me the whole 11 year run I had with it (1995-2006). The keybed was pretty crappy! I got used to the feel though, and was actually pretty happy with it, especially after I loaded all four expansion slots.

[ElmerJFudd]

11 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I believe that's true on the Juno DS and the (discontinued) FA, but not Fantom or Fantom-0, where I think they use the same actions on the 61 and 76. I think the only other model available in a 61 and a 7x is the VR09/VR730, where the actions are different, but both are on the short side.

 

In the case of DS, FA, and VR, I believe the 7x-key actions (but not the 61s) are made by Fatar. So the very fact that's an entirely different action from the 61, outsourced to a different company, can also play into the price differential. It's not simply more or fewer of the same keys.

 

 

Roland used to have some of their classic sounds available in their Sound Canvas app, but they've discontinued it.

There’s a free AU for MainStage made by a meticulous fellow I posted recently.  Apple really needs to get MainStage on iOS.