Lightweight semi-weighteds: CK61, CT-S500, Liano

[The Piano Man]

Can’t really add much to Scott’s reply.

 

For me, the XE20 gives me a portable piano for wedding ceremonies/accompaniments etc. The built in quarter outs and the quality piano sample, powerful speakers and a reasonable hammer action at a very fair price (£599 UK) made it a no brainer.

 

The Liano is superlight. Sometimes I prefer a semi weighted action if I have a long night of heavy playing in a band context. I could also see me purchasing Hammond and/or Rhodes/Wurly apps for iPad and using the Liano to control it.  Sure, no drawbars for the Hammond but a nice keyboard action. The battery powered ability is a handy tool to have. 
 

I also have Grandstage 73 for when only the highest quality will do. 
 

In summary, I certainly don’t NEED all three but then again, I am sure we all understand the GAS!

[Chummy]

would you say the Numa Compact SE and the Roland go:keys 3/5 belong to this list? I played a tiny bit with the go:keys 3 but couldn't find the Numa at the store sadly. I wonder if anyone tried this model since no videos on YouTube of people demoing it.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Chummy said:

would you say the Numa Compact SE and the Roland go:keys 3/5 belong to this list? I played a tiny bit with the go:keys 3 but couldn't find the Numa at the store sadly. I wonder if anyone tried this model since no videos on YouTube of people demoing it.

I haven't played the SE/XSE, but it seems to be a slightly enhanced Numa Compact 2/2X. I like them, they have a lot of capability for their price/size/weight, though personally, I never connected with playing piano on them, and they're also heavier than those others, though still light at 15.6 lbs. I do wonder how they would play if the keys were less tightly sprung I haven't played a GO.

[Chummy]

@AnotherScott I see

 

I do like the Casio CT-S500 but I wonder, If I could add more cash (even x5/x6 times the price theoretically) and get a better , more professional lightweight portable board that has improvement in any number of the following categories:

* better sound engine

* a drawbar organ engine with drawbars

* more keys than 61, up to 76

* better/louder speakers

 

 

Things I'd compromise about given these^:

* a marginal weight increase

* NO built in speakers, but has the ability to be powered either by batteries or a battery pack

 

I can't find anything... I know there is the CK61, but from reviews I read, the action is... worse? and according to a YouTube review, most of the non piano/EP sounds e.g synths, pads, choirs are absolutely horrendous. So... having NOT played the Yamaha, would you say the Casio better than the Yamaha in every way except for the interface / drawbars/ split layer / audio interface etc. etc. the other stuff I didn't mentioned above that is^

 

I was looking at the Dexibell Vivo S1, but being metal and having a weighty software I'm not sure if it is even portable to take in public transport + long walks (+ an amp, stand etc.) The Casio CT-S500 is seemingly perfect, I just WISH it had more keys and maybe better sounds and controls, for more money ofc.

 

P.S My problem is the Liano is: not enough sounds, the non-piano sounds are bad. But mainly, no split for bass+ upper sound. I really do need to be able to do this in ensemble situations when we have no bass player... Other wise, I'd love korg to make a more "Stage friendly" oriented liano, same form/action, with 73/76 keys, 250 QUALITY sounds and split/layer.

 

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Chummy said:

I do like the Casio CT-S500 but I wonder, If I could add more cash (even x5/x6 times the price theoretically) and get a better , more professional lightweight portable board that has improvement in any number of the following categories:

* better sound engine

* a drawbar organ engine with drawbars

* more keys than 61, up to 76

* better/louder speakers

Casio's WK700 gives you 2 and 3, I don't know about 4 and I suspect not 1!

 

Regards, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, Chummy said:

I do like the Casio CT-S500 but I wonder, If I could add more cash (even x5/x6 times the price theoretically) and get a better , more professional lightweight portable board that has improvement in any number of the following categories:

* better sound engine

* a drawbar organ engine with drawbars

* more keys than 61, up to 76

* better/louder speakers

 

Things I'd compromise about given these^:

* a marginal weight increase

* NO built in speakers, but has the ability to be powered either by batteries or a battery pack

 

I think Mike's comments on the bigger Casio (WK7600 is the actual model) were right, with the additional caveat that earlier Casio action isn't as nice. But it's heavier than the Dexibell S1 which you already find too heavy at its 18.74 lbs. Once you leave the realm of boards with speakers, I think the Kurzweil SP6-7 is the lightest board that will otherwise give you just what you want (allowing for knobs rather than sliders for the drawbar controls), but it's still 17.53 lbs.

 

3 hours ago, Chummy said:

I can't find anything... I know there is the CK61, but from reviews I read, the action is... worse?

 

I prefer the CT-S500's keys, but others may disagree. It's not a bad action.

 

3 hours ago, Chummy said:

and according to a YouTube review, most of the non piano/EP sounds e.g synths, pads, choirs are absolutely horrendous. So... having NOT played the Yamaha, would you say the Casio better than the Yamaha in every way except for the interface / drawbars/ split layer / audio interface etc. etc. the other stuff I didn't mentioned above that is^

 

I think some of the non-piano sounds are better on the Casio, and some are better on the Yamaha. I never know how to comment on "synths and pads" because there's no reference. I mean, I know what real strings, horns, winds, and reeds sound like, but synths/pads could be anything so it's all subjective. I imagine youtube has sound demos for these things for both boards, though. CK obviously has better organs, though (even apart from having the drawbar control).

 

I'm not sure about comparing the speakers. I think I mentioned elsewhere... out of the box, the Casio speakers seem stronger, but there's a menu option to boost the levels on the Yamaha and I've never compared using that capability. The Yamaha speakers also face forward, which means that the speaker comparison can also vary depending on listening psition. That is, even if you though the Casio speakers sounded better to you as the player, it's possible that the Yamaha speakers could sound better to the audience.

 

3 hours ago, Chummy said:

P.S My problem is the Liano is: not enough sounds, the non-piano sounds are bad. But mainly, no split for bass+ upper sound. I really do need to be able to do this in ensemble situations when we have no bass player... 

 

For non-piano sounds, I think the Liano Rhodes is okay. Not anything spectacular, but perfectly usable. Lack of Wurli is a bummer. Strings are okay. Sadly disappointing harpsichord. It doesn't matter to MathOfInsects, but it matters to me. 🙂

 

Since Liano has a built-in audio interface, it's easy to connect it to an iPad with a single cable, run it in Local Off mode, and get your splits/layers that way, still hearing the sound out of the Liano's speakers. 

[The Piano Man]

9 hours ago, Chummy said:

 

P.S My problem is the Liano is: not enough sounds, the non-piano sounds are bad. But mainly, no split for bass+ upper sound. I really do need to be able to do this in ensemble situations when we have no bass player... Other wise, I'd love korg to make a more "Stage friendly" oriented liano, same form/action, with 73/76 keys, 250 QUALITY sounds and split/layer.

 

Could Korg re-use the Liano case but add in a chip/board with sounds from their arranger series or the Kross series?

 

Alternatively, at the higher end of the market, I could see some mileage in a Vox Continental replacement, perhaps back under the Korg branding. Add real drawbars, internal power supply, 4 way splitting/layering like Yam YC and Nord competitor products, upgrade the CX3 organ engine and voila, sell like hotcakes 

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, The Piano Man said:

Alternatively, at the higher end of the market, I could see some mileage in a Vox Continental replacement, perhaps back under the Korg branding. Add real drawbars, internal power supply, 4 way splitting/layering like Yam YC and Nord competitor products, upgrade the CX3 organ engine and voila, sell like hotcakes 

Absolutely. The Nord Electro is a ready-made template for these kinds of boards, and it's a proven success. (Although even the latest Electro only supports 3-way split I think).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[stoken6]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Once you leave the realm of boards with speakers, I think the Kurzweil SP6-7 is the lightest board that will otherwise give you just what you want

That (sadly no longer manufactured) Kurz was a secret weapon - because it supports high trigger, it makes a great lower manual under a clonewheel. 

 

But if we're leaving speakers behind, the Vox Konti, Roland VR730, and Hammond SK1-73/SK Pro all appear on the radar. Studiologic's Numa Compact 2x is worth a mention (with speakers, although not dramatically better than Casio's), with a slightly unusual 88-note format. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Chummy]

I'm waiting for AnotherScott's comparison between Casio CT-S500 and Roland Go:Keys 5 ! Who's with me?

 

 

 

[MPN21]

I have been playing my CT-S500(also CTS1) and Liano for sometime. The Casios are fun to play and easy on my fingers affected by arthritis. I wanted to say thank you to those of you for steering me in the right direction especially AnotherScott. Initially, I had been looking for a 73 weighted key. Then the arthritis in my left hand pinky got much worse, and I stopped playing on weighted keys all together. In the meantime, a forum member suggested a Casiotone key. I ordered a CTS1 and then after I saw AnotherScott's post a CT-S500. The CT-S500 is a lot of keyboard for the money. I knew it was Bluetooth MIDI/Audio ready but I didn't know that it came with an $80 USB Bluetooth Audio/MIDI dongle. What a deal. The dongle works also on the CTS1 and probably other keyboards as well at least for Bluetooth MIDI. Both Casiotones sound and feel good. My arthritis finger is real happy. The Roland Go5 interested me, but then again I already have Zenology Pro with 6,000 sounds, some extra sound packs, and wave expansions.  It's nice that the CT-S500 has an assignable expression pedal input. However, when I control external sounds with the expression pedal , it also affects the built-in piano patch. Maybe it's global. I will have to check it out.

The Liano serves my purpose fine. Easy on my fingers and something light to carry around, 88 keys to play pianistic pieces but I wouldn't mind paying more to get a few more features including 1/4 outputs. Casio would do a better job. Casio, how about CT-S500 with 88 key or 73 key with the lowest note being C?

[mrk7421]

I am curious about Liano but I never see them at GC or anywhere else. Weighted keys are not always a must for me and if it means decreased weight and decreased price I am all for it. Also hoping to check out Go Keys....how are the acoustic and electric pianos on those?

 

Really hoping that Roland would offer the FP-10 acoustic sound in something light weight...to me the FP-10 broke new ground in sound for under $600 list. That sound engine would be wonderful in a light weight board. For some reason Roland has gone in a strange direction with EPs.....the FP30x just sucks. My 15 year old Casio CTK 4200 just blows it away....I just don't get it                                                                                                                                                                                                        For now.....the Rhodes in the Casio CTK 4200 works for me. This is the 61 key version of the WK220 from quite a while back. That Rhodes to me is very similar to some of what was on the Motif...in fact I preferred it to most  of what was on the MOXF awhile back. I see them in the $40 to $50 range on Craigslist occasionally. It gets the job done for a lot of grab and go situations. And the WK220 /CTK4200  acoustic sample will get you by among a dense mix of other electric instruments. Not bad to have one given that they are practically free in the used market .

 

 

[Reezekeys]

I just got a Liano, and am thinking of doing a video review as I explore it more. My use case is completely different from the market this keyboard is aimed at, so my opinions may be of no use to anybody (which is probably the case in general anyway!). I've been playing mostly piano fascimiles on 61 key synth action boards since the mid 1980s, so I knew a light action would probably be fine. Weight was the main consideration as I knew I'd be attaching this to my iPad and using the sounds I like from there. Short story - I can't really use the built-in sounds. The first acoustic piano is fine for an emergency, and the "rhodes" is actually kinda interesting - more like a cross between a rhodes and a wurly imo - but these are not sounds I'd choose to play on a gig considering the simplicity of attaching my iPad or iPhone, where much better sounds live.

 

I'm not gonna expound more at the moment, except to say that I was tempted to return this and get an 88-key controller that gives me the buttons, sliders, pots, and pads I'm used to from my Roland A800. Even though I originally thought I'd take an 88 out on gigs where I just need piano, I realized I like to switch between acoustic and rhodes, layer in strings occasionally, control the amount of reverb, etc. I want to play my normal setup I'm used to, one I work from my A800's controls. There are several 88-key controllers that only cost about $50 more than this Liano, but they weigh 18 lbs as opposed to the Liano's 13, and of course have bigger footprints. I've figured a way to control my regular iPad setup using TouchOSC on my iPhone so I think I'm keeping this Liano. I cannot get over how light and easy to move this thing is! However, I'm now faced with a pressing issue: is there a gig bag that snugly fits the dimensions of this keyboard anywhere? I haven't found it yet!

[AnotherScott]

Yeah, the only sounds I use on it are piano and rhodes. Maybe strings, they're not bad, but it's rare that I'd need to play strings alone (unlayered) on my 
"piano board" if that's what I was using it for. But regardless, I do like it as an iPad controller. Use "local off" and you have a nice one-cable solution that can even play its sounds through the onboard speakers. And the music stand gives you an ideal place to put the ipad, too.

 

7 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

There are several 88-key controllers that only cost about $50 more than this Liano, but they weigh 18 lbs as opposed to the Liano's 13, and of course have bigger footprints.

.. and I suspect are likely to have keys that don't feel as nicely playable for piano. So many low-cost controllers have keys that are too springy or otherwise unpleasant for piano.

 

For a gig bag, I'm using the same one I use for my old Casio Privia (deeper than the current Privias), it's good enough for me, though it may not be quite as snug as you'd prefer.

 

[SteveNathan]

My 2cents doesn’t mean much in this discussion since I don’t use internal sounds ever, but strictly as a “piano feel” controller, I love my Casios 😍 Carry under one arm & good feel. 

[LarsHarner]

I've had my CK61 for a year and like playing it and leave it on 24/7 in case I get a song idea. I am going to use it as a board for taking out.

I am older to the point where if a place doesnt have a keyboard I'm not going and/or just want to carry something light.

[AnotherScott]

31 minutes ago, LarsHarner said:

leave it on 24/7 in case I get a song idea

 

Probably not necessary... it literally powers up in about 3 seconds.

[allan_evett]

Big fan of the CT-S500 here. It's gone with us on several trips. Great, compact keyboard for hotel room use. Works well with my iPad. Will definitely be taking it on a longer road trip planned for his coming fall. I've also gigged it several time - using it for strings, brass and a few other sounds - 2nd tier above my NS 3, 76. The sounds are solid, and it's super helpful for small rig situations. The piano tones are very playable and expressive; for that, this one punches well above its weight. No serious tonewheel organ coverage, but for a live rig that's not needed - especially having the Nord modeled organs. Plus, in a pinch I could always use B3-X on my iPad - if the CT is the only keyboard in use..

[Reezekeys]

On 4/15/2024 at 9:50 AM, Reezekeys said:

I'm tempted to get this Liano just for the keybed as I'm toying with going to 88 keys for some local gigs, but severely allergic to schlep. USB to my iPad for all the sounds, unless I like the built-in piano more than my current one. I'm curious if the USB audio connection makes any difference in latency for iPad sounds vs using the iPad's own headphone out. Thanks for the report!

 

Look at me quoting myself. Just to mention that I did get a Liano a few weeks ago and have gigged it once. I was considering returning it as I found I missed the ability to quickly switch sounds. I thought it would be fine for local gigs where all I need is a piano, but I am so used to switching between rhodes and acoustic, also layering pad sounds – sometimes in a single tune – that I realized I wanted that ability in any keyboard I got for myself. To be clear - I am using the Liano for its keys only, triggering iPad sounds. I know I can easily switch its onboard acoustic to its onboard rhodes!

 

There are several 88-key controllers I saw - I believe Novation & Nektar were the ones – that were only about $50 more than the Liano, and have a full complement of sliders, buttons, knobs, etc. However, searching this forum turned up some not very complimentary posts about their actions. Also, these being 18 lbs (8 kg), I was wary of adding another 5 lbs (2.3 kg) of shlep to the 13 (~6 kg) of the Liano - which is three more than my current shlep of 10 lbs (4.5 kg) for my 61-key Roland A800. I have extreme shleprosy!

 

I'm thinking of doing a comprehensive video review of this board where I'll be going into detail about how I've dealt with the lack of controller features and its other weak points (imo), along with its strong points: the very playable keybed (if you're OK with piano on a lightweight synth-action board of course), and the main attraction (for me!) - having possibly the lightest 88-key keyboard usable in what I would call a pro-level keys rig. It's a keeper.

 

[EDIT - I just saw that I wrote pretty much everything I said above in an earlier post in this same thread (six posts and ten days before this one). Sorry - gotta take more gingko!!] 🙂 

[Paul Woodward]

On 4/15/2024 at 7:30 PM, The Piano Man said:

The Liano is superlight. Sometimes I prefer a semi weighted action if I have a long night of heavy playing in a band context. I could also see me purchasing Hammond and/or Rhodes/Wurly apps for iPad and using the Liano to control it.  Sure, no drawbars for the Hammond but a nice keyboard action. The battery powered ability is a handy tool to have. 
 

I also have Grandstage 73 for when only the highest quality will do. 

As a fellow GS owner, I agree with about the quality of that board, great sound and action. How does the Liano compare for the piano which I believe is based on the Italian Piano from the GS. One for sale near me for under £200 and I could live with some of its limitations if that piano were close to that of the GS, especially as it integrates an iPad so easily.

I am still amazed that they can get a lightweight 88 key board with speakersm USB midi and audio for that price.

[Reezekeys]

The piano in my iPad is superior to the one in the Liano's, in my opinion. I wouldn't have considered the Liano if not for its iPad integration. If you're thinking of using an iPad with it, that means you'll have the ability to use any acoustic piano the iPad can hold; so why even consider the pros & cons of the Liano's onboard piano? It's a $350 88-key keyboard and you are not going to get the experience of playing a "flagship" or "ultimate" piano sample (Korg's words on the Grandstage web page) for that price. I don't mean to drag the Liano, I bought it and I'm happy with it - but the onboard sounds have zero to do with that happyness!

[Paul Woodward]

I appreciate that but as it’s advertised as having an Italian multi sample piano derived from the Nautilus (and the updated Kronos/GS), I was curious how it sounded to someone who also has the Grandstage. Also interesting that you find the iPad pianos better. I think they are fine at a push in Module, and I really liked the Oasys piano IAP, but assumed the Liano piano would be better.

[Reezekeys]

My iPad piano is custom made - using Logic's "autosampler" plugin to create a Logic sampler (.exs) instrument from my Native Instruments "New York" piano. The iPad/iPhone app AudioLayer can import .exs instruments - ergo, the sound(s) of any plugin you can load into Logic on a Mac can be put into an iPad or iPhone. Of course it's not exactly the same as the original - but it's close enough. I'll throw up a quick A/B for ya, it will be easy to hear the diffs.

 

Also, "derived from" the Nautilus... that could mean a lot of things! To me it sounds like a euphemism for a cut-down version. Cut down how? By how much?

 

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful as I know you're looking for someone who's had direct experience A/B-ing the Liano vs GS. My point of reference is a multi-gigabyte sample library I've been playing on laptops for years. It's possible you'd be happy with the Liano's piano, depending on what you're used to. One of the topics I was thinking about covering on my video review was how you can get more control over the sound by sending it to an app like AUM via USB to add EQ and reverb, and possibly other effects you might want. You can't send the resulting audio from the Liano though - it has to come from the iPad.

[Paul Woodward]

Thanks for the detailed info. It was just curiosity really as @The Piano Man has both the GS and Liano, so could tell how similar the Italian pianos are.

Liano was never on my radar, but I bought the Keystage mainly for its Poly AT and iPad integration (bit of an impulse buy). The Midi 2.0 has hardly been explored, nor does much in my arsenal respond to Poly AT, so this has the full range of keys, is lightweight, and has the iPad integration for what is peanuts (on my local marketplace). 

[Reezekeys]

I may wait a bit on that A/B - I just did some quick recordings to compare the Liano vs the iPad version of my NI piano. While I do feel my piano wins the shootout, there were some elements in the Liano's sound that are not in mine - and that's kinda by design. It's possible that someone may notice these things and prefer the sound of the Liano - as a passive listener. When you're sitting behind the keyboard playing it, hearing your sound coming out of PPAs near you, you are of course feeling the finger-ear connection and it's a completely different experience, imo. I think a simple A/B listening to the two (especially over computer speakers) can't communicate what I believe are the deficiencies of the Liano's "cut down" piano - you really "have to be there." However, if live playing isn't the primary reason for getting the Liano and it feels comfortable to play - both in the keybed feel and the finger-ear connection to its sound - who am I to argue? It's still not an ideal recorded sound imo, but it's not bad, and again, this is a $350 88-key keyboard with a very nice (though super-light) action, easily connectable to i-devices, and a breeze to carry to and from gigs!

[octa]

CT-S1-76 spotted in Casio app update..

[Chummy]

holy moly, if true, I'm glad I was holding off of buying a CT-S500 for my new place... will prolly get the 76 for pro gigs and fun jams too

 

EDIT: just PRAYING for normal outputs... and BANG ! I can live without the rhythms.

[Paul Woodward]

Released yesterday apparently…maybe Japan only.

https://www.soundhouse.co.jp/en/news/detail?NewsNo=20039

 

 

[Reezekeys]

I found a Japanese web site listing this board. I see the cost there as ¥40700. That's ~$250US / £200 /€236. 5.3Kg or around 11.7 lbs.

 

Google refused to translate the whole page, but I'm guessing this is the CT-S1 with extra keys.

[AnotherScott]

Nice. More capable, lighter, probably better feeling, maybe cheaper than Yamaha Piaggero NP-35. And if 76 is enough for you, also another alternative to Korg Liano and Go PIano 88.

 

If only it had 1/4" outs and 5-pin MIDI...

 

I'm not expecting it, but a 76 version of the CT-S500 would be pretty nice.