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Lets Pray for Jamaica


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It looks like Ivan is going to decimate Jamaica, I usually don't pray too much, but I really fear for these poor people. I usually don't think about God that much either, but I think he/she is saying, "look upon this force of nature and learn" - meaning, we can use this somehow, for our own "good" if we could just understand it.......
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
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I have family and friends in Jamaica and the West Indies mainly Monserratt.

I really hope things are going to be ok there as they are all in my thoughts and just had my ex mother-in-laws mother in the UK and she left to go back on Tuesday so I am hoping all will be ok there.

Currently alot of Jamaican neighbours are worried and they are certainly in mine and the familys prayers today.

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Originally posted by Tedster:

Our own NYC Drew is from Jamaica, I believe. I would gather that he probably has family still there.

 

Thoughts and prayers to all...

Yeah. MY 13 yr old kid started school on Tuesday. He left on Sunday, before Ivan was a solid threat.

 

It's going to be eventful, no matter where it hits - Cuba, Cayman, Jamaica, Florida, Gulf states....

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Originally posted by NYC Drew:

Yeah. MY 13 yr old kid started school on Tuesday. He left on Sunday, before Ivan was a solid threat.

 

It's going to be eventful, no matter where it hits - Cuba, Cayman, Jamaica, Florida, Gulf states....

Please let us know how things are with your family Drew and I will do the same.

Its going to be a worrying time for sure

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Originally posted by YaCaBaby:

I have family and friends in Jamaica and the West Indies mainly Monserratt.

Monserrat! HA! Where hurricane winds can blow volcanic ash from Soufriere Hills at 140 knots. Man...a hurricane AND a volcano.

 

AHARRRRRRR, mateys, batten down the hatches, thar be a storm a brewin'.

 

Drew, I'm not quite following you, is your son going to school in Jamaica, or did he leave Jamaica to come back here?

"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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Originally posted by NYC Drew:

It's going to be eventful, no matter where it hits - Cuba, Cayman, Jamaica, Florida, Gulf states....[/QB]

Yes, they all are in my thoughts and prayers as well. I can't imagine dealing with one after another storm slamming in.

bbach

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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I found this article interesting about the current hurricane situation.

 

Ivan latest in vicious decade of hurricanes

 

Seth Borenstein

Knight Ridder Newspapers

Sept. 10, 2004 12:00 AM

 

MIAMI - Soon-to-strike Ivan is the latest and nastiest of a trio of monster hurricanes toying with Florida and the rest of the United States, showing Americans what hurricane experts have known for the past several years: We're in the midst of a record-breaking decade of hurricane activity.

 

And it's likely to get worse, some experts predict, in the Atlantic hurricane season in which Sept. 10 is the midpoint.

 

The number of U.S. deaths from Charley and Frances is about 45, based on unofficial reports. That's already the highest yearly U.S. hurricane death toll since 1999. If Ivan and whatever follows kill only half as many people as the two earlier storms, 2004 will go down as the deadliest U.S. storm season in more than three decades.

 

Florida has been struck by three hurricanes in the same year before: In 1964, Cleo, Donna and Isbell rolled in. In 1947, two hurricanes and a tropical storm struck Palm Beach County in just five weeks.

 

"We've been very lucky until this year," said William Gray of Colorado State University in Fort Collins, the scientist who pioneered hurricane-season forecasting.

 

The good news is that the beginning of an El Niño weather event in the equatorial Pacific should make October a quieter month than normal, Gray said.

 

El Niño is the name used to describe the climate and weather effects of changing water temperatures in the Pacific tropics. El Niño conditions typically produce wetter weather across the Southern tier of states and drier weather across much of the North.

 

But right now, all conditions are ripe for bigger and more frequent hurricanes, said Roger Pielke Sr., an atmospheric scientist at Colorado State.

 

Key ingredients for forming hurricanes are atmospheric disturbances, rainstorms that often chug off Africa's Cape Verde and grow as they move west over the Atlantic, and the lack of upper-level winds that cut off storm tops, Pielke said. Those conditions are still favorable for more storms.

 

A major factor that allows hurricanes, such as Frances, to grow bigger and stronger is warm water.

 

"The Atlantic is a degree warmer than average this year. That may be a part of what's causing what's going on," said Hugh Willoughby, a senior scientist at the International Hurricane Research Center in Miami who used to direct the federal government's Hurricane Research Division.

 

And one weather condition that steers hurricanes, the Bermuda high-pressure ridge, is in a position that will direct storms into the U.S. mainland, not away as it has in past years, Pielke said.

 

That's a change for Florida. Even though the past nine years have been active, Florida has been unusually lucky and spared major hurricanes recently, Gray said.

 

Just why the season has been so busy lately is widely debated. Most experts say it's part of natural cycles, but the future effects of global warming are another factor to be considered.

 

Hurricanes go through multidecade cycles of many storms and few storms, Gray said. In the 1950s and 1960s, there were a lot of storms, then few from 1970 to 1994. Gray theorizes that it's based on changes of temperature and salinity in the ocean on a massive scale that then changes atmospheric conditions. All of those conditions are just perfect for more storms right now, he said.

 

The past nine years, from 1995 through 2003, marked the busiest, most intense nine-year storm period on record, based on the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's hurricane season index. The number takes into account how many storms develop, how strong their winds are and how long they last.

 

That means we're experiencing more storms that are bigger and nastier.

 

As of Thursday, this season had nine named storms, five of which became hurricanes and four of which (Alex, Charley, Frances and now Ivan) are major hurricanes.

 

Staff reporter Shaun McKinnon and Cox News Service contributed to this article.

 

 

I guess being prepared is about the best thing, good luck everyone.

WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
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Definitely, prayers or mojo or whatever gift of the heart you can muster is in serious order here. This has just been a bruital season... Japan has taken a record 7 typhoon hits and a couple of earthquakes this season already... This is just nuts... Boggs
Check out my Rock Beach Guitars page showing guitars I have built and repaired... http://www.rockbeachguitars.com
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Friends and musicians of mine are mostly back here luckily,but I pray for the rest.A bit of chaos over there at the moment and my friends have been very busy trying to transport their freinds and families.
"A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
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Perhaps this isn't the thread for this, but I just really really don't understand the prayer thing.

 

Storms are storms. You know, there's this really awful storm on Jupiter that's about the size of earth. I don't think that prayer has anything to do with the storm on Jupiter,so why would it have to do anything with the storm on earth? If there is a God, isn't he/she beyond this? I agree with Bill Mahr on this one -- I just don't see God as Santa Claus saying "OK, you prayed for me to turn the storm down a notch, so I'll turn it down a notch."

 

Storms are just part of earth, of life, of our existence, but if there is a God, I just don't see him as a micromanaging God.

 

If you look at Ivan from space, it's remarkable how close it resembles galaxies made up of hundreds of billions of stars -- the similarity is remarkable. That incredible similarity accross the heavens gives me a whiff of God.

 

but I just don't see God responding to prayers as if he were taking a poll, although I understand that it may make us feel a little better.

 

This isn't to say that I don't "hope for the best," and maybe saying that someone is in your prayers is just your way of expressing the same sentiment. Both of us hope for the best, both of us would try and help if we could.

Dooby Dooby Doo
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Originally posted by Duddits:

Perhaps this isn't the thread for this, but I just really really don't understand the prayer thing.

To be brief, it doesn't require understanding. That some derive some comfort from it is enough. There are enough Biblical precedents, for those who lend credence to that sort of thing, to indicate that prayer won't hurt the situation. (shrug)...
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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Originally posted by Tedster:

To be brief, it doesn't require understanding.

But Tedster, you are claiming an understanding in this very sentence. Your sentence is an explanation for what you say is unexplainable. You are claiming that prayer is effective and then claiming that it doesn't require understanding.

 

You are being perfectly respectful about it but there's nothing to stop another person from being perfectly evil under the same beliefs. If Gods start and stop storms at our request then the Gods will meet any of our requests. Anything goes at that point.

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JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- A South Florida businessman says he's going to try to reduce the strength of Hurricane Ivan by flying a Boeing 747 into the edge of the hurricane and dumping thousands of pounds of an absorbent material into the storm.

 

Peter Cordani, of Jupiter, plans to try to knock the storm down by one or two categories by dropping tons of powder that absorbs 3,000 to 4,000 times its weight.

 

Cordani is chief operating officer of Dyn-O-Mat, a company that sells environmental absorbent products such as mats for mechanics. He believes his product, SK1000, would cause a shearing action and a 15-degree cooling of the storm.

 

Cordani has been working on his plan for five years. He has assembled a team of experts, including two former astronauts, moonwalker Edgar Mitchell and Scott Mac Leod, who tested the lunar module.

 

Cordani is in contract talks to lease a 747 tanker from Evergreen Aviation in McMinnville, Ore.

 

http://www.nbc6.net/weather/3721722/detail.html

 

:freak:

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Peter Cordani, of Jupiter, plans to try to knock the storm down by one or two categories by dropping tons of powder that absorbs 3,000 to 4,000 times its weight.
Now that is just plain whacky, doesn't this guy have to get some kind of permission from some scientific body to do this?

 

Also, it may not help to pray, but it can't hurt. I say - prepare first, pray second. If you look around the internet the story's of survival and aftermath of these disasters are amazing. The one common factor is that most people aren't prepared for such feats of nature and are unaware of the magnitude they present.

WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
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Originally posted by Duddits:

[QB]Perhaps this isn't the thread for this[QB]

Seems as though this is simply a thread for wishing all those in the path of Ivan to come through this well. It can be thoughts, prayer, musci, dance, or simply a vocal well wish.

bbach

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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Originally posted by LanceMo:

"Cryin' won't help ya and prayin' won't do ya no good"

 

I'm with you, Duddits. Gods didn't send the storm and Gods aren't gonna stop it. I don't know what these claims of "God" refer to.

 

The best alternative we have is to do our best to avoid the brunt of these things.

To be blunt, when there's water swamping the boat, you can either help bale it or get out of the way while someone else does the work. But don't stand around harping that baling water doesn't work. Maybe you can save this argument for AFTER the storm passes out of respect for people whose very lives are in jeopardy this week.

 

"There are more things in heaven and earth,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

 

- William Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act 1, Scene V

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Originally posted by Dan South:

To be blunt, when there's water swamping the boat, you can either help bale it or get out of the way while someone else does the work. But don't stand around harping that baling water doesn't work. Maybe you can save this argument for AFTER the storm passes out of respect for people whose very lives are in jeopardy this week.

I'm sorry if you took either my comment or LanceMo's as a lack of respect for people whose lives are in jeopardy. Certainly I didn't mean it that way, and I don't believe he did either.

 

I think him and I are both saying that when there's water swamping the boat, bailing water is exactly what you want to be doing.

Dooby Dooby Doo
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Originally posted by LanceMo:

Originally posted by Tedster:

To be brief, it doesn't require understanding.

But Tedster, you are claiming an understanding in this very sentence.
WHAT? If you read the next sentence, you'll see that what I actually SAID was that "If SOME (meaning ANYBODY) derive(s) comfort from it, that's enough." You don't have to understand what benefit it gives them. Your job is to be tolerant.

 

Would you have gone to Manhattan on Sept. 11 of 2001, standing by the smoldering wreckage of the WTC, and given the people grief over the debatable effectiveness or lack thereof of the prayers they were offering up for their loved ones? The damage had been done. Their loved ones were either alive or dead...they had no way of knowing. So one could argue "You're stupid to pray. Either your loved one is alive or dead, and prayer won't change that". Even the atheists "hope" for something, whatever it might be, whenever rational means fail..."I hope I get that new job"..."I hope dad makes it through his bypass surgery"...whatever. If that gives them comfort, so be it.

"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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Originally posted by Duddits:

I think him and I are both saying that when there's water swamping the boat, bailing water is exactly what you want to be doing.

Very true...when one is able to bail. Sometimes there are circumstances that are beyond your control...a huge wave bearing down which will sink the boat...no amount of bailing will help. No time to get to shore. Only one thing left to do (after you get your life jacket on).

 

The citizens of Jamaica can't evacuate the country. They're pretty much stuck there. Prayer might not do anyone any good. Who knows? But if people derive comfort from it, so be it.

 

And amen to what Dan said about not arguing about this while people's lives are in danger.

"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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Originally posted by Tedster:

That some derive some comfort from it is enough.

Perhaps you're right.

 

I like Dan's metaphor, though, about bailing water from a flooding boat. When people are in jeopardy, I want to help them. I want to role up my sleeves and bail water. But I'm not inclined to comfort myself, not when others are in jeopardy and I'm not.

 

And while I understand how bailing water can help, I just can't see for the life of me how God might say "Oh. OK. They're praying. In that case, I'll turn it down."

 

I know people feel passionate about this, and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, or criticize anyone in any way. It just seems so strange to me that people -- wonderful, smart, helpful, sophisticated people -- say these things and do these things. I just don't get it.

 

Except, perhaps, as you say, to comfort themselves. Maybe it's ritual -- a common thread to link us to each other and enhance our sense of strength over forces that are truly beyond our control.

 

Oh well. This is what I get for being a cat. Sometimes I can relate, and sometimes I'm just the odd species out.

Dooby Dooby Doo
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