Kurzweil K2061 61-note synth!

[CyberGene]

Thanks 👍🏻

[ProfD]

A used, fully loaded" K2000 can be bought for a couple hundred dollars if @YashN has motivated a burning interest in V.A.S.T. programming.🤣😎

[YashN]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

A used, fully loaded" K2000 can be bought for a couple hundred dollars if @YashN has motivated a burning interest in V.A.S.T. programming.🤣😎

 

That's an insane amount of music-making value . Kurzweil's own estimate for exploring all it has is '300 man-years'. Effects here are by Digitech, they have their 80's or early 90's charm. It is indeed the best gateway introduction to V.A.S.T. programming.

 

A few years ago, you could get a K2500 rack for $350 too. There was one with the Sampling option near my place recently for CAD350 and a broken Power On button (just the cap missing). Somebody snagged it before me. (yes, I do already have my K2500XS + KDFX). I can upgrade that board in sound-making capabilities, essentially turning it into a new Workstation.

 

It is a user-upgradeable Workstation.

 

It never fails nor cease to amaze me, even 29 years after I got it.

 

I thought I loved it, then I thought I adored it...

 

Now, I revere it and the folks who built it and continue to improve it.

 

Imagine the requirements after Ray's original prime directive of harnessing digital so as to benefit from its exponential growth:

 

- It has to be able to do everything and allow the user to improve his own workstation

- Everything?

- Yes, Everything-Everything.

Ralph Muha + others: I got this

 

You get everything, if you know how.

 

BTW: there are many more people involved: Hal Chamberlin (author of "Musical Applications of Microprocessors"), Bob Moog, Bob Chidlaw (ex-Kurzweil, now at Source Audio, Thank you, Sir), Robert Bristow-Johnson, Tim Williams, John Teele, and many more World-class talents (please add anyone I missed in a reply below). Effects-side: Christopher Moore (Moore is Digital Delay & Reverb Royalty) and others.

NB: The Moore effects Algorithms are in KDFX, not in the K2000, so either a K2500 that has been upgraded with the KDFX card, or the K2600, or the newer branches: PC3, Forte, PC4/K2700, forthcoming K2061/88

[CyberGene]

I get the argument about the supposedly infinite capabilities of V.A.S.T. but since I’m genuinely interested in Kurzweil, I’ve been listening to various Kurz demos for years and frankly speaking they don’t sound better than what I hear from Yamaha, Korg and Roland. Maybe it’s better for programmers than it is for players who just use the presets. I mean, I understand the geeky aspect of having such a powerful engine but I’m wondering if it really has been exploited in depths. From the demos I’ve heard, it’s not. 

[YashN]

8 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I From the demos I’ve heard, it’s not. 

 

I haven't published mine

[YashN]

33 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I get the argument about the supposedly infinite capabilities of V.A.S.T. but since I’m genuinely interested in Kurzweil, I’ve been listening to various Kurz demos for years and frankly speaking they don’t sound better than what I hear from Yamaha, Korg and Roland. Maybe it’s better for programmers than it is for players who just use the presets.

 

There's no 'supposedly', it is a mathematical thing, and it doesn't have to be infinite to be mind-bogglingly powerful.

 

For better presets, I can point you to a talented fellow member here, who specialises in this type of thing. Listen to his PF demos. People say his presets are very good.

 

However, if the actual artists who have settled on this brand, including replacing their older gear with it (I provided verifiable proof from the horses' mouths) haven't been able to convince you by now, nor the numerous comments saying the opposite of what you're saying on the YT comparison videos, I have my own doubts about your real intentions.

[CyberGene]

2 minutes ago, YashN said:

However, if the actual artists who have settled on this brand, including replacing their older gear haven't been able to convince you by now, nor the numerous comments saying the opposite of what you're saying on the YT comparison videos, I have my own doubts about your real intentions.

Earlier in this thread I said I was hoping this might be my first Kurzweil board. However, when I see so extreme fanboyish statements like yours, naturally I get a defensive response and start arguing against Kurzweil 😃 Sorry, man. I’m interested in Kurzweil but somehow I seek more balanced opinion. 

[YashN]

Just now, CyberGene said:

Earlier in this thread I said I was hoping this might be my first Kurzweil board. However, when I see so extreme fanboyish statements like yours, naturally I get a defensive response and start arguing against Kurzweil 😃 Sorry, man. I’m interested in Kurzweil but somehow I seek more balanced opinion. 

 

Your opinions on these PF Demos though... What do you think?

[YashN]

9 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I’m interested in Kurzweil but somehow I seek more balanced opinion. 

 

Maybe this one provides it, you'll have to listen and decide for yourself:

 

 

[Sean M. H.]

30 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I get the argument about the supposedly infinite capabilities of V.A.S.T. but since I’m genuinely interested in Kurzweil, I’ve been listening to various Kurz demos for years and frankly speaking they don’t sound better than what I hear from Yamaha, Korg and Roland. Maybe it’s better for programmers than it is for players who just use the presets. I mean, I understand the geeky aspect of having such a powerful engine but I’m wondering if it really has been exploited in depths. From the demos I’ve heard, it’s not. 

 

 

I concur with the gist of what you're getting at here.  To echo what I've already said, having the most flexible synth engine, which--at least to a degree--is objective (or "mathematical" as YashN said), does not necessarily equate to the best sounding instrument.  While it certainly has its strengths, I don't think my PC4 sounds any "better" overall than my MODX, despite having a much more powerful architecture.  Same for Kronos/Nautilus and Fantom I'm sure.  The top Kurzweil boards can compete with any of these boards (as the comparison video highlights)...but don't expect to be blown away by some cutting edge, plugin-rivaling wall of sound that the other boards are incapable of matching,  as some of this V.A.S.T. discourse might lead you to believe...well at least not from the factory.

 

Hope I've provided some balance to the discussion 🤷‍♂️

[YashN]

19 minutes ago, Sean M. H. said:

Hope I've provided some balance to the discussion 🤷‍♂️

 

I could provide more info about the Sound and a comparison of these machines, but before I do that, I'd like to see Cybergene give his feedback about the PF presets I provided a link to.

 

Otherwise my plate is quite full.

[YashN]

21 minutes ago, Sean M. H. said:

I don't think my PC4 sounds any "better"

 

I've heard other people report that, so now I am intrigued enough to look at it.

 

External PSU for the PC4? Can I have a look at the PSU if that's the case? There's no rush, you can take your time, just tag me, I'll have a look.

[CyberGene]

11 minutes ago, YashN said:

I'd like to see Cybergene give his feedback about the PF presets I provided a link to

I think I’ll have some quiet time alone on headphones later today to hopefully listen to those. 

[YashN]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

I think I’ll have some quiet time alone on headphones later today to hopefully listen to those. 

 

Yes, that's cool. Also: there are a lot of gigging player here, with one or more of these workstations or keyboards. You asked the question in a Kurzweil K2061 thread. Your best bet is to make a new thread asking for a comparison of the 4 main Keyboards for your specific purposes. Then you can get more balanced viewpoints and why.

 

Perfectly Balanced will not be possible, so you have to be very specific about what you want to achieve and why.

 

The Kurzweils are in a different class of gear altogether: they are Workstation Generators.

[DroptopBroham]

3 hours ago, YashN said:

if the actual artists who have settled on this brand, including replacing their older gear with it (I provided verifiable proof from the horses' mouths) haven't been able to convince you by now, nor the numerous comments saying the opposite of what you're saying on the YT comparison videos, I have my own doubts about your real intentions.

 

Not in my wildest imagination would I have thought that Ray would create an account on the corner and pump the hard sell, but here we are. Figured he'd be in his safe room awaiting the singularity, guess the transhumanism isn't paying the bills.

[YashN]

37 minutes ago, DroptopBroham said:

 

Not in my wildest imagination would I have thought that Ray would create an account on the corner and pump the hard sell, but here we are. Figured he'd be in his safe room awaiting the singularity, guess the transhumanism isn't paying the bills.

 

Hot Damn, you have a voice!

 

I thought for a minute your wife had sequestered you and your account and was beating up on you so bad the only way you had found to ask for help was repeatedly press on the first icon you could.

 

We'd have had to ask an admin to look into the logs to determine if we could decode a 'H.e.l.p. m.e.' from the intervals.

 

Not sure how Ray's involvement is nowadays. The Prime Directive is to implement with Digital so as to benefit from the exponential progress of it all. As for his life, he is awaiting 'The Bridge'. I hope he gets there.

 

You like movies? I just saw 'Don't move' by Sam Raimi.

 

How's Life in Florida? We were in Miami last year, loved it.

 

Click downvote twice if you need help. Try to be discrete about it, you never know.

[Radagast]

Are we still talking about the K2061 and does this praise for everything Kurzweil stream need its own thread?

[Thethirdapple]

Always wondered what driving a VAST synth with KARMA would be like…both avenues seem to be equally thick as well as  both being loved and completely misunderstood/under used by anybody other than true wing-nuts and evangelist of said tech…

 

On paper I love everything about VAST(yet to have one of my own), in the studio I love everything about KARMA. The ideas of combining the two feels truly limitless. Hopefully the VAST midi implementation is up to the task!

 

TWO TASTES WHICH SHOULD TASTE GREAT TOGETHER!

 

just a thought…

 

 

 

PEACE

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[ProfD]

22 hours ago, YashN said:

There's no 'supposedly', it is a mathematical thing, and it doesn't have to be infinite to be mind-bogglingly powerful.

Great for synth programmers. Not so appealing to musicians who just need great sounds to play.😎

[YashN]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Great for synth programmers. Not so appealing to musicians who just need great sounds to play.😎

 

https://kurzweil.com/artists/

 

There have been many more and there are many more: Alicia Keys, Pink Floyd, Jordan Rudess (Dream Theater), Duran Duran, New Order, Trent Reznor, FrontLine Assembly/Delirium, etc... Dave Weiser alone has been instrumental in helping both Brian Wilson finally release his mythical Smile, and many Broadway shows around the world make their music.

 

The on-board sounds are usually lauded: a visit to various comparisons on YT, listening with headphones, and reading the comments can give a good impression, but if you can play one, try that, and then try moving the sliders.

 

I have pointed to a resource where custom sounds can be obtained and asked for feedback on this, crickets.

 

You can search YT for specific shootouts, e.g.:
 

 

[J.F.N.]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Great for synth programmers. Not so appealing to musicians who just need great sounds to play.😎

 

It's a workhorse for anyone who wants it to be, regarding the onboard sounds I've not tried either PC4 or K2700, but I have a PC3 76 and even it starting to come to age I find it still got a pretty decent sounding bunch of presets. 

 

Like with everything, buy what rocks your boat, there is no holy grail, and a lot of things to choose from!

[YashN]

6 hours ago, Thethirdapple said:

Always wondered what driving a VAST synth with KARMA would be like…both avenues seem to be equally thick as well as  both being loved and completely misunderstood/under used by anybody other than true wing-nuts and evangelist of said tech…

 

On paper I love everything about VAST(yet to have one of my own), in the studio I love everything about KARMA. The ideas of combining the two feels truly limitless. Hopefully the VAST midi implementation is up to the task!

 

Give me the main takeaways that you find supremely useful in KARMA, I'll have a look.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, YashN said:

https://kurzweil.com/artists/

I was referring to the mathematical aspect of synth programming.  That isn't a selling point for most artists and musicians  Presets will suffice.😁😎

[YashN]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

I was referring to the mathematical aspect of synth programming.  That isn't a selling point for most artists and musicians  Presets will suffice.😁😎

 

Sure, but all the properties are under the hood, it suffices to find the one to help with that in case it's needed.

 

Michael Jackson had Marinelli, for instance.

 

Brian Wilson didn't program everything on the K2600: Dave helped.

[Thethirdapple]

18 hours ago, YashN said:

 

Give me the main takeaways that you find supremely useful in KARMA, I'll have a look.

 

The "problem" I have is with the static sounding and endless loop (riffs) of "hard coding" performance programming in midi, which KARMA solves.

 

I think of KARMA as a "Realtime Automation Sandbox".

 

KARMA provides for an nearly endless combination of key actions, controllers and dynamic triggers to be wired together and act as a realtime "musician" to drive a synth. Creating articulations, phrases and insane grooves. And one can fine tune the responsiveness of KARMA not only when programming a GE (generated effect) but while playing in realtime remaining perfectly in sync. 

 

Watched a few vids going thru the 2700 and was struck by the note mapping, note triggering as a truly liberating architecture. And am most intrigued by the Riff functions as well as any articulation possibilities. Midi CC preferred but sysex is usually the more fine tunable route.

 

In a video of Jim's, he maps a chord to a key which only plays the timbre when the chord is actioned by THAT key... nice but that chord in static and has no dynamic (realtime) articulation nor fun. Granted PF didn't write the song with any of that type, but if Im making my own stuff I want that chord to dance a bit or have a slightly different (real) articulation each time or a variable articulation and phrasing based on how I'm playing. 

 

In my little brain, this completely and wonderfully blurs the lines between performance/performer and their musical instruments.

 

all very much similar and in line with what Jim showcases here:

 

 

PEACE

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[MorayM]

Anyone heard anything more on this one?

[YashN]

26 minutes ago, MorayM said:

Anyone heard anything more on this one?

 

This Winter is all I heard.

[Jim Alfredson]

On 11/6/2024 at 5:34 AM, Thethirdapple said:

In a video of Jim's, he maps a chord to a key which only plays the timbre when the chord is actioned by THAT key... nice but that chord in static and has no dynamic (realtime) articulation nor fun. Granted PF didn't write the song with any of that type, but if Im making my own stuff I want that chord to dance a bit or have a slightly different (real) articulation each time or a variable articulation and phrasing based on how I'm playing. 

You could always set up multiple keys to trigger the same chord but with different velocities for each note of the chord. Yes, still static per key but if you did, say, four of them, you could have some different articulations.

[Thethirdapple]

2 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

You could always set up multiple keys to trigger the same chord but with different velocities for each note of the chord. Yes, still static per key but if you did, say, four of them, you could have some different articulations.

This is simply awesome and provides some great avenues to explore. Note Velocity as multiple triggers for different Karma GE’s within a single chord is getting super close to the mark!

One day I might be able to hit perfect individual finger velocity when playing a chord, until then…

 

Thank you for posting and further “influencing” my V.A.S.T future 🫣

 

 

 

 

PEACE

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