Korg GrandStage X

[LarsHarner2]

17 hours ago, zephonic said:

I don’t get it, a Nautilus 88 is cheaper, has the same sounds and action, and waaay more. What is the added value here? The tube?

I was thinking the same thing; also I was able to load in some expansion piano banks into it as well. I have the 61 key and think 

[LarsHarner2]

One advantage could be the quick load time over the wait on the nautilus?

[AnotherScott]

There's generally something of a premium for boards with direct real-time dedicated controls that eliminate (or at least minimize) menu-diving, though this does seem like a pretty extreme example.

[Paul Woodward]

The news of the GSx prompted me to dive into the original this weekend. It has 564 sounds in it and I played it alongside a Yamaha YC61. First I had forgotten how many great sounds are in it and the synths and strings blow the YC away. I'm ashamed to say I never really messed with the sounds beyond the presets but I was amazed at how much difference using SW1 and SW2 and the mod wheel made to many sounds. One sweeping pad introduced a huge sweeping filter and a sub oscillator, never heard it before. Pianos were better to my ears and everything was so clear and punchy, it made the YC sound, well, dull. And for the record, the GS was passing through the YC audio in. 

Kind of moot now it's discontinued, but this board continues to impress me and anyone getting the X will likely be very happy with it. Anyone grabbing a bargain 1st gen will be equally happy. 

[AnotherScott]

16 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Pianos were better to my ears and everything was so clear and punchy, it made the YC sound, well, dull.

Part of that could also be the YC61 key response, especially if you have not tweaked the Live Set's velocity response settings. But an interesting experiment might be to run a MIDI cable out from th Grandstage and into the YC, and play the YC's pianos that way, and then see how they compare with the YC pianos being played from a more piano-like action.

 

16 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

synths and strings blow the YC away.

Analog-style synth certainly should, since GS has an actual VA synth engine, which the YC does not. Though the YC should excel at the FM sounds. (Kronos includes an FM engine, but that one did not make it into the GS.)

[Paul Woodward]

I connected the GS to the YC when I first got it and, while it played better from a weighted board, the YC keyboard is quite responsive but the sounds from the Korg were fuller, richer and better to my ears.

Both great boards of course (and I was always a Yamaha piano guy), but those Kronos sounds are great.

[Motif88]

Everyone keeps mentioning the curved top. It’s not a curved dome like a 1970’s Rhodes, it is flat on top and curves at the back. The question is, how deep is the flat top?

 

[jason88]

2 minutes ago, Motif88 said:

Everyone keeps mentioning the curved top. It’s not curved dome like a 1970’s Rhodes, it is flat on top and curves at the back. The question is, how deep is the flat top?

 

Yeah, it does look pretty flat! The pics/angle make it look about as deep as the keys (roughly). My Viscount Legend 70s has a flat top and I find it immensely practical; it's a perfect place to rest my ipad, sheet music, etc. Hoping the Grandstage X has class-compliant USB audio, so I can hook up my ipad and interface easily with it and then place it on the flat top

[Paul Woodward]

No mention of USB audio in the spec. Again I’m struggling to see what the big updates are here other than the expanded sample memory and a few quality of life features….and the obvious aesthetic upgrade….

Hell, the effects section is almost the same as the original (added a shimmer?). Yamaha and Nord equivalents put this to shame.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the Grandstage, I just expected more from a new model after so many years.

https://www.korg.com/uk/products/synthesizers/grandstage_x/specifications.php

[AnotherScott]

  

On 1/18/2024 at 5:22 AM, stoken6 said:

And it needs a 73 variant! Korg have use the RH3 in that size many times previously, so I'm surprised it's not included. My only conclusion is that it's not a replacement for the original, but a "halo model" (exactly equivalent to the Nord Grand vs Nord Piano).

Not the halo model as you describe, because the original GS is out of production.

 

But at its weight, I'm sure even a 73 would be way too heavy for me.

 

Getting back to what justifies the price over a Nautilus, besides the control surface premium, there is value to aesthetic appeal.

[Paul Woodward]

You have to wonder how big (high quality) the samples are in this (and the original) when the new Nord Grand 2 still has just 2Gb of Piano samples and 1gb for synth. GSX has 50gb (uncompressed)….

[Legatoboy]

I wonder if Billy Payne will be gigging one, funny how that's the 1st thing that came to my mind!  i certaintly will not be, but would love to take a test drive anyway..... 

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

You have to wonder how big (high quality) the samples are in this (and the original) when the new Nord Grand 2 still has just 2Gb of Piano samples and 1gb for synth. GSX has 50gb (uncompressed)….

Korg is unique among keyboards for its huge sample libraries, pioneered with the Kronos which was based on a PC motherboard running linux, able to stream samples from SSD. No one else takes that approach. I'm not sure what they're doing in the Grandstage, maybe the same?

 

But as they say, size isn't everything. When the Kronos first came out in 2011 with what were, at the time, groundbreaking piano sample sets of up to 4.7 GB, lots of people still thought the x00 mb Nord pianos still sounded better. I was among them. 😉  But Korg has come out with better piano since then. 

 

As for non-piano sampled instruments sounds, that's an area where Korg has always killed Nord. And it's not just sample-size per se, but Korg could trigger 8 different samples on a single note; the Nord sample library architecture permits only one sample per note on a given instrument (e.g. velocity can still alter the sound via volume and filter cutoff, but it is still playing the same sample). That reduces authenticity and eliminates alternate articulations.

[Paul Woodward]

I imagine the SSD on the Kronos was necessary for recording audio and other data as well as streaming sample sets. The GS only has to store some edits and favourites and storage costs were very little even back in 2017.

Having said that, it does take 30 seconds or more to boot up the GS, but I assume that is just loading the sample sets into memory.

[Stokely]

Long load times are a pretty big deal, unless you are bringing out a battery backup.  I have one but haven't felt I've needed it lately, which is handy because it's heavy.  I've lost power a few times at gigs, usually before the show but sometimes during.   I guess bang a tamborine for 2-3 minutes if you don't have a ups. 

 

[AnotherScott]

13 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

I imagine the SSD on the Kronos was necessary for recording audio and other data as well as streaming sample sets. The GS only has to store some edits and favourites and storage costs were very little even back in 2017.

Having said that, it does take 30 seconds or more to boot up the GS, but I assume that is just loading the sample sets into memory.

Yes, thinking about it more, Grandstage probably is not taking the Kronos approach of PC motherboard plus SSD. More likely it's probably doing what I think Krome does... store the samples on low-cost flash (i.e. SD card), and copy them into RAM at boot. No streaming. And not the 2-3 minute boot time of a Kronos (even if not super-quick either.) In this case, it would mean it actually has a lot more RAM in it than a Kronos/Nautilus does, which might be contributing to the relative pricing.

 

Just now, Stokely said:

Long load times are a pretty big deal, unless you are bringing out a battery backup.  I have one but haven't felt I've needed it lately, which is handy because it's heavy.  I've lost power a few times at gigs, usually before the show but sometimes during.   I guess bang a tamborine for 2-3 minutes if you don't have a ups. 

Or gig with a pair, where your other board has a quick boot, so you can get up-and-running again quickly with something.

[Adan]

How a stage keyboard looks does matter to some extent. On my solo gigs, where there is only one piece of equipment on stage, I can see a difference when it's an eye-catching keyboard versus a boring slab. For instance, people wandering through before or between sets might look at it and ask the hostess "what's happening, is there live music tonight?" Of course, I could be imagining this difference, but I will maintain that there is empirical support for this theory.

 

I for one appreciate Korg's willingness to give their keyboards a little gratuitous sex appeal. No one else is even trying!

 

Now, is that difference worth the extra 15 lbs of the GSX over the GS? That's a hard question to get a handle on quantitatively. That's a huge weight gain, and as discussed in a different thread recently, one also has to factor in the weight of a bigger case to transport it. 

 

I'd like to have been a fly on the wall in the Korg design meeting where someone first said "yeah, the first GS wasn't a big success, but here's what we'll do when we bring it back . . . we'll add a new rhodes sound and make it 40% heavier!"

[Paul Woodward]

11 minutes ago, Adan said:

I'd like to have been a fly on the wall in the Korg design meeting where someone first said "yeah, the first GS wasn't a big success, but here's what we'll do when we bring it back . . . we'll add a new rhodes sound and make it 40% heavier!"

Bit harsh…it’s got a drumbox as well 😉

And they renamed the Dynamic touch feature…but it’s essentially the same effect.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Adan said:

I'd like to have been a fly on the wall in the Korg design meeting where someone first said "yeah, the first GS wasn't a big success, but here's what we'll do when we bring it back . . . we'll add a new rhodes sound and make it 40% heavier!"

 

Making it heavier adds to the Rhodes authenticity, dontcha' know...

[ElmerJFudd]

5 hours ago, Adan said:

How a stage keyboard looks does matter to some extent. On my solo gigs, where there is only one piece of equipment on stage, I can see a difference when it's an eye-catching keyboard versus a boring slab. For instance, people wandering through before or between sets might look at it and ask the hostess "what's happening, is there live music tonight?" Of course, I could be imagining this difference, but I will maintain that there is empirical support for this theory.

 

I for one appreciate Korg's willingness to give their keyboards a little gratuitous sex appeal. No one else is even trying!

 

Now, is that difference worth the extra 15 lbs of the GSX over the GS? That's a hard question to get a handle on quantitatively. That's a huge weight gain, and as discussed in a different thread recently, one also has to factor in the weight of a bigger case to transport it. 

 

I'd like to have been a fly on the wall in the Korg design meeting where someone first said "yeah, the first GS wasn't a big success, but here's what we'll do when we bring it back . . . we'll add a new rhodes sound and make it 40% heavier!"

I believe the base of their stage pianos has been particle board, an MDF type material for a long time.  It may very well be necessary to accommodate the RH3 action. The SV2 is 44.86lbs and the Nautilus 88 50.93lbs.  
 

Montage M8x 61.93lbs, YC/CP88 41lbs, 

 

 

 

[HammondDave]

Still… heavy as F**k!  And this coming from a guy who used to lug around a C3, a 122, Clavinet, Rhodes, MiniMoog, and an Ampeg V4 stack!

[AnotherScott]

I really wish Korg would put their better quality pianos/EPs and performance-oriented interface in a more portable hammer action stage piano. I really like the piano in their 25 lb XE20, but it has a clumsy interface, and disappointing EPs. A similar (though justifiably higher priced) box with Grandstage X sounds and interface (albeit lesser action and aesthetics) would work for me, preferably 73 key to further minimize weight. Or, essentially, the original Grandstage 73, if it had their lower-end hammer action, assuming that could knock 10 lbs off that board's 37.5 lb weight. I'd like to see something from Korg more function-and-weight competitive with Yamaha CP73 and Numa Piano X 73. But I don't know, maybe those aren't great sellers, and so not a place Korg feels they need to be.

 

(I know, that lower end Korg action gets knocked, but as I've mentioned before, while I've played some Kross/Krome 88s that were justifiably knockable, I've played others that felt perfectly acceptable. So a good implementation is possible.)

[octa]

 

[niacin]

that video popped up in my feed, it looks like something from the USS Enterprise.

[Paul Woodward]

I really shouldnt bite, but it annoys me when he says the all new features are the new look, the sloping panel and seven new engines taken from other Korg products. Even says its totally different from original...err....what?

[The Piano Man]

Personally I think it’s a ghastly beast.

 

I’ve actually recently ordered the original Grandstage 88. Found one in stock. I much prefer the design and price of this. And, of course, the base sound engine is the same, the keyboard action is the same and I will be able to carry it myself and fit it in my car!

 

My long serving Technics P30 (circa 2001) has a dodgy dc jack socket now so I decided it was time for an upgrade!

[Paul Woodward]

1 minute ago, The Piano Man said:

Personally I think it’s a ghastly beast.

 

I’ve actually recently ordered the original Grandstage 88. Found one in stock. I much prefer the design and price of this. And, of course, the base sound engine is the same, the keyboard action is the same and I will be able to carry it myself and fit it in my car!

Nice find.

[U.Honey]

I have to admit that it looks good. Can't think of any other stage piano that would look that hip.

[Fleer]

I love it that Korg almost doubled the factory sound memory in the X when compared to the original. 
But I’m hoping they’re not using MDF underneath, the same cheap-feeling, liquid sucking particleboard they used for the OG and the SV-2. 
Then I’m out. 

[jejefunkyman]

I really think you should go in therapy to get rid of this MDF phobia that you have 🤣