NED Synclavier - If Anyone Needs One

[wd8dky]

No, I am NOT the seller. 

 

https://reverb.com/item/65220415-ned-synclavier-psmt-flagship-digital-workstation-synthesizer-jam-lewis-owned-serviced-excellent

 

 

[timwat]

62 large is a lot of cheddar in a world of mature DAW options and multi-core processors priced for the masses.

 

Having never ever touched a Synclavier in the wild, I have no idea if workflow, sound quality, etc. means this price offers real value.

 

I suppose if this is attractive to a real market, they know who they are. 

[CyberGene]

https://apps.apple.com/app/synclavier-go-app-and-plugin/id1378108734
 

From the same company, using the same code as the original. Runs on iPad and iPhone. 

[ProfD]

Brotha @timwat, I think the buyer is paying $60k for the Synclavier hardware enclosure and more importantly Jam & Lewis fingerprints.🤣😎

[Ed A.]

Thanks, but I’ll pass. I already have Arturia’s Synclavier V that was developed by Cameron Jones who designed the original that uses the original code.  Plus it has 12 partials, compared to the hardware’s 4 partials, and each partial has two operators both with additive and sample capability. The hardware only has a sine operator and an additive operator per partial. I can also run the software version on my 16” M1 MacBook Pro compared to the original that needs a proprietary mini computer with noisy cooling fans. But maybe the pedigree is important enough to someone to pay $62k.

[TJ Cornish]

For those like me that are too young to have been Synclavier-aware during its heyday, the Anthony Marinelli videos have been really enlightening as to what the secret sauce was. 

 

The Synclavier is legendary with good reason, and other monster synths of the day including the Fairlight CMI, CS-80, and Yamaha DX1 made huge marks on the world, however in all cases, modern options fully encompass the originals, and based on some historical look backs that I have meandered through the last few months, 40 years of hardware and software advancements have not made me all that nostalgic. I would love to go visit one, but I won’t be getting another mortgage to bring one home.

 

If for some reason I won the lottery, of the two original mega synths, I’d probably opt for the Fairlight, even though the Synclavier was more capable.

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

24 minutes ago, TJ Cornish said:

For those like me that are too young to have been Synclavier-aware during its heyday, the Anthony Marinelli videos have been really enlightening as to what the secret sauce was. 

 

The Synclavier is legendary with good reason, and other monster synths of the day including the Fairlight CMI, CS-80, and Yamaha DX1 made huge marks on the world, however in all cases, modern options fully encompass the originals, and based on some historical look backs that I have meandered through the last few months, 40 years of hardware and software advancements have not made me all that nostalgic. I would love to go visit one, but I won’t be getting another mortgage to bring one home.

 

If for some reason I won the lottery, of the two original mega synths, I’d probably opt for the Fairlight, even though the Synclavier was more capable.

 

 

I disagree with the quote in the title. Leo Fender's original P-Bass and Telecaster were by far the most revolutionary instruments. Yes, others made similar guitars but not at the same level of worldwide distribution that both these iconic creations achieved . The P-Bass is the most popular bass guitar in the world and has been for decades. No more lugging around a standup bass, no feedback when the amp is turned up, music was changed forever. The Synclavier is very cool and was revolutionary but you won't find one on nearly as many successful recordings, or at live music events. The Telecaster and Leo's amplifiers also changed the way guitar was played forever. It's rare that you will see any band that doesn't have a Fender instrument on stage. 

[Ed A.]

16 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

The Synclavier is very cool and was revolutionary but you won't find one on nearly as many successful recordings, or at live music events. 

Probably because the Synclavier cost $15k on the low end (typically much more) compared to a Fender guitar that sold for maybe $500 back in the day.

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, Ed A. said:

Probably because the Synclavier cost $15k on the low end (typically much more) compared to a Fender guitar that sold for maybe $500 back in the day.

A Squier bass is less expensive still. 

Your point is well taken but also you will see far more bands with a bassist than a keyboard player. Bass is essential for popular music, Leo got that one right beyond any doubt. Now the Stratocaster is the most popular guitar, the Tele is down the page a bit. I do enjoy the sounds of keyboards, don't get me wrong. I was in a Motown band and our keys player was an essential part of our music. I've seen LOTS of great bands with keyboard players, ELP, Deep Purple and YES all come to mind quickly. I saw Artur Rubenstein when I was about 8, Mom took us. A few months later she took us to see Carlos Montoya. Rubenstein was exquisite, wonderful music and I loved it. Montoya was on fire, he got a standing ovation on the first piece. That's when I decided that guitar was for me. 

[D. Gauss]

2 hours ago, Ed A. said:

Probably because the Synclavier cost $15k on the low end (typically much more) compared to a Fender guitar that sold for maybe $500 back in the day.

the one we had at the studio i worked at way back then costs $250,000 (synth plus sequencer and hard disk recording).  the Fairlight when it came out later seemed like a bargain

[David Emm]

The older I get, the older all of those vintage keyboards get, too. At the rate my own parts are failing, its hard to see taking on one of the most historically boutique keyboards ever. Hit that repair brick wall much? Hey meester, got a NOS Synclavier in your garage? Timwat nails it about current technology making a Synclavier reside somewhere between quaint and furniture, in my view. There's Synth Luv and then there's just nurturing an OCD. I hear it has a lovely keyboard feel, but that's a lot to pay for a controller. 😬

 

I'm not slagging it, either; I had that clear blue demo LP. Man oh man, did my pals and I quiver joyously over it. Its an icon of its own. I think the Arturia version is the MVP, having been developed by Cameron Jones. That's as close as rationality can get you.   

 

Let me drop some due respect for people who still lean on a Synclavier or Fairlight in the studio. Its madness, but we all bought into it, happily. Oi!

[Stokely]

The funny thing is that I interned in a small studio with what I was told was the "first Synclavier in Nashville"  

I really didn't know much about it, and basically only used it for the occasional sample--it had a ginormous winchester drive attached for loading the tapes containing the samples.  It was not a quick or easy process, but it was the only sampler of any sort we had.   I didn't even realize it was a synth at the time.   We had a number of other keyboards that I messed with, but I wasn't one of the musicians doing the composing (for jingles and corporate spots), just the engineer.

[jazzpiano88]

8 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Your point is well taken but also you will see far more bands with a bassist than a keyboard player. Bass is essential for popular music...

 

Mods, please delete this Thread.   Bass is far far far more important than Keys just going by pure numbers of players.   Bass is also essential, unlike any god damned Synclavier!!!

 

Thread title not withstanding, that claim in the youtube thumbnail has to go! 

[KuruPrionz]

4 minutes ago, jazzpiano88 said:

 

Mods, please delete this Thread.   Bass is far far far more important than Keys just going by pure numbers of players.   Bass is also essential, unlike any god damned Synclavier!!!

 

Thread title not withstanding, that claim in the youtube thumbnail has to go! 

It's just another YouTube inflated opinion. Nothing new there. If the video has useful information then maybe somebody will benefit. I'm totally cool with it being there, just stating my own opinion regarding bass. 

[RABid]

That was a nice walk down memory lane. I would like to know more about the differences between the original and the Synclavier II. I know the price difference is huge. One thing I know, the original was the price of a yacht, the II was the price of a car.

[jazzpiano88]

23 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

It's just another YouTube inflated opinion. Nothing new there. If the video has useful information then maybe somebody will benefit. I'm totally cool with it being there, just stating my own opinion regarding bass. 

I don't know that Bass and Synclaviers are a zero sum game.    I could wax eloquent about Table Saws being more important than Bass.

 

Actually the video is very useful.  It goes into how the instrument works, its history, evolution, capabilities, etc.   It also recounts two of the guys experiences who were involved in creating those iconic sounds for Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones, and others.    The guy was a product rep for NED, no less, as well as sound programmer by night.   Also how the instrument was used for the scores of a lot of movies.   The cool thing is that it was about 10-15 years ahead of its time, which was why it was used by people with unlimited budgets.   The cost was driven by the cost of memory.

 

You don't see that anymore.   Unobtainium music gear.   Gear that can do something no-one else can, that is 10 years ahead of the reach of the average Joe.  Moore's law is the reason why. 

[jazzpiano88]

7 minutes ago, RABid said:

That was a nice walk down memory lane. I would like to know more about the differences between the original and the Synclavier II. I know the price difference is huge. One thing I know, the original was the price of a yacht, the II was the price of a car.

 

I think he quoted the cost of the original was about $12k.   Reason is that it only had 8 tracks and limited voices therefore the memory requirements were modest and reasonably affordable.   They used mostly available HW and integrated it with their SW and R&D as they were just a small shop.  

 

It wasn't until they fleshed out the feature requirements (sampling, added voices and tracks, polyphony) of the next generations that the memory requirements exploded and started adding up to Thousands per MB onto the price.

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, jazzpiano88 said:

I don't know that Bass and Synclaviers are a zero sum game.    I could wax eloquent about Table Saws being more important than Bass.

 

Actually the video is very useful.  It goes into how the instrument works, its history, evolution, capabilities, etc.   It also recounts two of the guys experiences who were involved in creating those iconic sounds for Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones, and others.    The guy was a product rep for NED, no less, as well as sound programmer by night.   Also how the instrument was used for the scores of a lot of movies.   The cool thing is that it was about 10-15 years ahead of its time, which was why it was used by people with unlimited budgets.   The cost was driven by the cost of memory.

 

You don't see that anymore.   Unobtainium music gear.   Gear that can do something no-one else can, that is 10 years ahead of the reach of the average Joe.  Moore's law is the reason why. 

Yes, and water being infinitely more important than either. I can live my entire life without a bass or a table saw. Without water, I have maybe 4 days to live. So what? 

Synclaviers were expensive primarily because the memory chips were expensive. Technology that is long since outdated. You name a few records featuring Synclavier. I doubt anybody can total up the number of records with a Fender P-Bass, let alone all the other brands and types of electric solid body basses, likely including all the records you mention. 

[TJ Cornish]

24 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Yes, and water being infinitely more important than either. I can live my entire life without a bass or a table saw. Without water, I have maybe 4 days to live. So what? 

Synclaviers were expensive primarily because the memory chips were expensive. Technology that is long since outdated. You name a few records featuring Synclavier. I doubt anybody can total up the number of records with a Fender P-Bass, let alone all the other brands and types of electric solid body basses, likely including all the records you mention. 

Dude, this is a keyboard forum. Take a chill pill. The guy in the video programmed the Synclavier for a ton of people including Michael Jackson. His channel is fascinating and includes fairly deep content on lots of great synths. Sit back and enjoy and let him have an opinion. 

[KuruPrionz]

3 minutes ago, TJ Cornish said:

Dude, this is a keyboard forum. Take a chill pill. The guy in the video programmed the Synclavier for a ton of people including Michael Jackson. His channel is fascinating and includes fairly deep content on lots of great synths. Sit back and enjoy and let him have an opinion. 

Sorry, I'm just having a discussion with jazzpiano88. He makes some excellent points and I think I have as well. I've learned from his position, I've learned from your position. 

Relax, if we can't cross-pollenate on MPN we all lose potentially valuable perspectives. The post that's got you all riled up is simply a response. Some would argue that mentioning table saws in a discussion about musical instruments would be well off the mark but I found it somewhat amusing and worth responding in kind. I respect jazzpiano88, he is welcome to make random and interesting comparisons as far as I'm concerned. 

 

That's Louis Johnson playing bass on those same Michael Jackson records. Great music, a great artist and he hired both keyboards and bass. If I posted in the bass forum I doubt anybody would get their panties in a knot over me mentioning keyboards. That chill pill? It's yours, enjoy. 😇

[TJ Cornish]

17 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Sorry, I'm just having a discussion with jazzpiano88. He makes some excellent points and I think I have as well. I've learned from his position, I've learned from your position. 

Relax, if we can't cross-pollenate on MPN we all lose potentially valuable perspectives. The post that's got you all riled up is simply a response. Some would argue that mentioning table saws in a discussion about musical instruments would be well off the mark but I found it somewhat amusing and worth responding in kind. I respect jazzpiano88, he is welcome to make random and interesting comparisons as far as I'm concerned. 

 

That's Louis Johnson playing bass on those same Michael Jackson records. Great music, a great artist and he hired both keyboards and bass. If I posted in the bass forum I doubt anybody would get their panties in a knot over me mentioning keyboards. That chill pill? It's yours, enjoy. 😇

If you are open to learning stuff, check out his channel. I have learned a lot. I apologize for quoting your more recent post than spending the time to inline quote your various slights about him being vacuous clickbaiter.

[KuruPrionz]

8 minutes ago, TJ Cornish said:

If you are open to learning stuff, check out his channel. I have learned a lot. I apologize for quoting your more recent post than spending the time to inline quote your various slights about him being vacuous clickbaiter.

I've said nothing regarding the OP or Kevin Maloney - certainly zero references about "vacuous click baiters". I'm not here to be belligerent, I think it's very difficult to parse one another given the medium of typed words and that is really the only shortcoming on sites like MPN. 

 

I will watch the video, I don't critique videos and I haven't critiqued this one. If I had seen it and/or didn't find it useful I would never have posted anything about it. Others may benefit in ways that I don't. FWIW, I'm a guitarist who can and will play bass if the gig calls for it. Long ago, I played bass for Bo Diddley and he shook my hand and smiled at the end of the gig. I've certainly been in many bands with keyboardists, I enjoy having those different sounds!

[Tusker]

13 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

For those like me that are too young to have been Synclavier-aware during its heyday, the Anthony Marinelli videos have been really enlightening as to what the secret sauce was. 

 

The Synclavier is legendary with good reason, and other monster synths of the day including the Fairlight CMI, CS-80, and Yamaha DX1 made huge marks on the world, however in all cases, modern options fully encompass the originals, and based on some historical look backs that I have meandered through the last few months, 40 years of hardware and software advancements have not made me all that nostalgic. I would love to go visit one, but I won’t be getting another mortgage to bring one home.

 

 

I agree with you that Anthony Marinelli is a treasure for those of us who care about synths. Arguably the Synclavier and Fairlight introduced digital sampling technology to music. That technology is ubiquitous today so we don't think very much about it. Like electricity, we just assume it's going to be there. Pat Metheny and Frank Zappa were able to understand its revolutionary significance and it made a difference for them. A friend of mine worked for NED when it was just a couple of Dartmouth professors. When Arturia's Synclavier V came out he had this huge memory lane experience and told me some of his stories. I'll never forget the grin on his face...

[jazzpiano88]

Near the end of the video, he shows the Synclavier Regen tabletop box that runs ported original SW and updated HW.  Looks to be about $2500.    https://www.synclavier.com/synclavier-regen/
 

There’s even an external knob to bypass the zipper control on the unit that connects via usb or Bluetooth. I think it will also control the iPhone and iPad versions.  
 

Neat stuff.  
 

 

[TJ Cornish]

10 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

 

I think he quoted the cost of the original was about $12k.   Reason is that it only had 8 tracks and limited voices therefore the memory requirements were modest and reasonably affordable.   They used mostly available HW and integrated it with their SW and R&D as they were just a small shop.  

 

It wasn't until they fleshed out the feature requirements (sampling, added voices and tracks, polyphony) of the next generations that the memory requirements exploded and started adding up to Thousands per MB onto the price.

“640KB [of RAM] ought to be enough for everybody.” - Bill Gates

 

I think it is interesting to see the progression of technology in fast forward (or actually fast reverse) from our chair in 2024. We stand on the shoulders of giants in every area, for sure. I have wondered what a modern “moon shot” keyboard would look like. Korg did a moon shot in 2005 with the OASYS, and I played my serial number 00034 for 9 years because it was way beyond anything else out there. The Kronos went forward in sound quality but backwards in terms of hardware quality and user interface (among other things, no light ladders on sliders/knobs), and everything Korg has made since are lesser instruments.

 

I picked up a Fantom in 2021 largely to regain the control surface features, and was delighted at the simplicity of the instrument which essentially solved what I thought was the major limitation of the vast majority of boards out there (at least workstations that I have owned) where individual parts don’t sound the same in a performance/combi as they do alone due to insufficient effects processor resources. I now have a Montage M8x which combines the fully-populated effects architecture (and then some) of the Fantom with the better sound quality of the Kronos, however IMO the Yamaha is a step backward in usability.

 

Listening to various forum whinges (including my own), it is clear that there are nits to pick on everything (I have more than a few that I have discovered on the Montage), but many of these relate to UI or feature segmentation decisions (e.g. no sampling on the Montage M8x, no piano roll sequencer). There are a few calls for more polyphony which is definitely hardware-constrained, but it is SOOOO much easier to work around this these days with a little planning and reasonableness.

 

I think probably that any hardware moonshot that would be done today would be in the form of a new generation of ASICs from Yamaha, or another PC integration like the OASYS/Kronos; not sure what could be done with a $25K+ hardware budget these days that couldn’t be done with a $5K hardware budget and software. It’s a good time to be a synth player.

[ABECK]

That setup has been on Reverb for a while now.  I agree, only someone interested in owning some Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis history would fork up that kind of scratch.  Even a straight up Synclav enthusiast with money to burn shouldn't have to spend more than $20K tops.  All the "workstation" extras that contribute to the high price tag IMHO don't really increase the value.  

[CEB]

Apparently Jam and Lewis don’t need it anymore. 😀😀😀

[ABECK]

27 minutes ago, CEB said:

Apparently Jam and Lewis don’t need it anymore. 😀😀😀

They bought a Mac

[jazzpiano88]

Neat video of Pat Metheny using the Synclavier interfaced with a modified Roland GR guitar.   
It had the option for pitch quantization, which clearly he had turned off.  In the article he goes into great length on how he was able to make it work.   One of the interesting things is that he had to pick extremely lightly to not generate noise or strong overtones for the system to accurately track.   He gets into trouble near the end with some clunkers.  But man what a brilliant solo!!
 

https://www.joness.com/gr300/Roland_G-303_Pat-Metheny_NED_Synclavier_Guitar_John-McLaughlin_Player_September_1985.htm