DAW user - your setup

[Mr Darling]

As I'm in the process of upgrading my studio I was wandering about your setup : Especially how you use your DAW and your mixing. This is not for recording many live tracks - I never record more then stereo at a time (vocals, guitar, perc..) 1 Computer and audio card of choice , mixer? 2 Convertors ? Bit depth ? KHZ ? 3 Does every audio track get a separate track on the mixer, or do you mix inside the software as well. 4 Do you record the mix back to DAW? I'm basically looking to be convinced that I can do much more mixing inside the computer, reducing the need of a better mixing desk (I own O3D) Thanks for all response PS . this is not for blowen up PT systems with 32+ i/o in their mac [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ------------------ Visit http://www.DarlingNikkie.com/sounds for free MP3's

[AmadMozart]

Here's the DAW part of my setup, and my own opinions as to why I chose this route. Computer Hardware: Macintosh G4 / 533 MHz DP / 640 Mb of ram / 40 Gb internal drive (not used for recording) / CD-RW - - I have this rack mounted in a Marathon case and tucked inside of a sound proof rack from Raxxess. Glyph Project 30 Gb Firewire for recording (this is good for about 24 tracks of 24 bit/48 Hz (if you need more I would strongly suggest a SCSI solution until faster Firewire drivers and controllers start coming out). DDS-3 tape backup / 1 Gb Jaz Drive Audio Software: DAW and Midi Sequencing: Digital Performer 2.72 (patiently waiting for my upgrade to Digital Performer 3.0 which takes advantage of the dual processors in the Mac. Opcode SVP 4.53 - this was my main DAW until they went out of business, it is still on the system in case I need to work with old files. Bias Peak 2.61 - This is a great tool for manipulating any sound but ultimately I use it to edit and master final mixes. Plug-Ins: Waves Native Gold Bundle, Antares Auto Tune 3, Metric Halo Channel Strip, Hyperprism Plug-in-Pack, Arboretum Ray Gun, whatever was bundled with Digital Performer (not used very much). Propellerhead Reason - this is a phenomenal tool if you are doing loop based music, techno, hip/hop, etc. - as much fun as you can have while still clothed - I am trying to figure out how to incorporate some of this sound into my compositions without making the compositions themselves techno or hip/hop. Audio Interface - MOTU 2408 with the PCI-324 card. This device gives you phenomenal format conversion capabilities between lightpipe, TDIF and SPDIF format - as well as 24 tracks of either lightpipe or TDIF. But the converters are only 20 bit and suck. It integrates seamlessly with Digital Performer as you might expect and works flawlessly. I am planning on changing to different converters that have either lightpipe or TDIF I/O so that I can continue to make use of the interface to Digital Performer, and the large I/0 capability of the PCI-324 card. Probably I will upgrade to Apogee PSX-100 which has a nice suite of features. Okay, well that is it for the DAW setup - this approach has worked extremely well for me - is very comprehensive and if you are planning on mixing everything inside of the DAW has an enormous amount of mix automation features (I might suggest a control surface to aid with that, but I know lots of people who don't use one). Cheers, Amad

[Mr Darling]

[quote]Originally posted by AmadMozart: [b]Macintosh G4 / 533 MHz DP / 640 Mb of ram / 40 Gb internal drive (not used for recording) / CD-RW - - I have this rack mounted in a Marathon case and tucked inside of a sound proof rack from Raxxess. Glyph Project 30 Gb Firewire for recording (this is good for about 24 tracks of 24 bit/48 Hz (if you need more I would strongly suggest a SCSI solution until faster Firewire drivers and controllers start coming out). Amad[/b][/quote] Why don't you use the internal for audio? isn't it faster then added driver? Thanks for the quick reply. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] ------------------ Visit http://www.DarlingNikkie.com/sounds for free MP3's

[AmadMozart]

The main reason not to use the *main* internal drive for your audio recording, regardless of it's speed, is that it is a good idea to have a separate drives for your application programs and operating system and one drive dedicated to nothing more than recording. In the case of the MAC internal drives - mine is a 40Gb ATA/Ultra66 which has a spindle speed of only 5400 rpm - which frankly is just going to choke on very much data even as a stand alone drive. You want at least 7200 rpm and since 24 bit/48Hz data eats about 8.5 Mb/min/track - you need a drive that has *sustained* throughput rates that can keep up with that. Cheers, Amad

[Trash Monkey]

Got just about the same setup as Amad-the only addition I could make to his posts would be that if latency bothers you or you can't manage it-do buget in an external mixer as this will decrease the issue. I personally have always been able to work around latency but have read COUNTLESS posts where others are plagued with it.

[AmadMozart]

Latency has never been an issue for me thankfully. I only laid out the Computer/DAW portion of my studio set-up, but I should have said that I have everything coming out to an external mixer (in my case a Soundcraft Ghost 32x8) - I generally don't mix in the DAW (I use it for midi sequencing, recording, editing, applying plug-ins where appropriate), but then I fly everything out to the Ghost and mix to DAT from there. If I add the PSX-100 to this set-up I will use the bit splitting mode to record to my DA88 at 24/48 and use it as my primary mix-down deck. Cheers, Amad

[Pro Jules]

1&2) Pro Tools: Mix + 888/24, 2 x Apogee AD8000SE, 1 x Cranesong Hedd converters, USD, 16 ch Pro Control, SampleCell 2, Rosendahl house Word Clock. 2 x hot swap drive bays, large collection of drives, DDS3 DATA DAT back up & CDR burner, UPS, 2 x flatscreen monitors. outboard digital FX = Eventide DSP 4000, TC M3000. Z-Sys digital detangler patch bay 3) separate track, but I sum signals like Bass drum mic's (often 2) and gtr mic's (often 2) prior to the converters. I have a Pultec 4 into 1 mono mixer I use for this. (I have no 'real / traditional' console) 4) Yes I do because I can keep it there at 24 bit ready for an 'own mastering session' or subsequent pro mastering (transferred to CDR as 24 bit AIFF data files) I am tempted by the Masterlink and have had one in to use.. but I will stick with what I use now for a while... --------------- I swallowed the Digidesign advertising two years back - hook line and sinker! I was able to raise funds for a studio and needed to figure out which way to jump with my set up spend. I knew if I were going digital, I had better get the best converters around (at that time) because my clients, (rock bands) would be au fait with the tape vs digital issues and I had better make it sound pretty damn good or I would be 'ruined via spread reputation' VERY QUICKLY. So with that worry in the back of my mind, having bought my rig, I sat perched on the Digidesign Users Group (NET newsgroup) for a SOLID YEAR soaking up EVERY SINGLE 'how to get it sounding like tape' or 'how to get happy with digital when you have been used to tape for so long' type of threads. Internal routing protocol, the coolest plug ins... the whole nine yards, anyone struggling or overcoming tape to Digital transitional problems online and I was there man, reading it ALL! I embarked on sessions, my aim, to get the music coming from my speakers - to sound - nice. No different from any other session 'mission'. I had financially committed to working 'all in the DAW' The ProControl would be (and still is) my only 'desk'. IT DROVE ME FUCKING MAD! (and still does) But I bought the shit, I was damn well gonna make it work, (or die trying!) I feel like a pioneer, it has cometogether well for me, it's working for me and my rock music clients. Meanwhile over the past few years since I started, Pro Tools has had a hand in almost all chart music around the western world. My system remains (fingers crossed!) hip and happening. For my new business venture (a studio) I don't have the cashflow / storage space problems 2" tapes bring a small set up. Sessions can be backed up to a $20 Dat. If I want to 'give an act a try' I dont have to take 1 weeks houshold food money and blow it on a reel of tape, (or if the band buys it, be concearned with it's ownership..) I chose my 'trainer' projects very carefully, one, coming in next week, rather well. The first full band recordings I atempted with them over a year and a half ago, netted them a recording deal with Virgin and resulted in their first release, I've had a heap of work off them since. So to conclude, you can mix in the computer but get (at least) an 8 fader control unit / console to go with it. You need that for say, balancing vocal harmonies accross several faders at one time with a pair of hands... 'transport' location, monitoring & talkback options on a controller unit are all VERY worthwhile -highly recomended. With the budget to afford all these goodies I am aware I can sound like a pompous ass from time to time. It truly can be said that I swallowed the digidesign catalog - WHOLE! But that was / is my DAW story, so far.... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Jules

[AEW]

Jules' system will cost you $100K, it's great and something to aspire to. The Digi001 is a great,cheap and easy way to start. You can run it on a Mac or PC (if PC check out Digi specs) and if you don't like it you will have no problem selling it. Buy the Digi001, a mic, powered speakers and computer and away you go, start recording. This is how I started and now I've got something like Jules. Nick

[Mr Darling]

[quote]Originally posted by AEW: [b]. Buy the Digi001, a mic, powered speakers and computer and away you go, start recording. This is how I started and now I've got something like Jules. Nick[/b][/quote] I actoualy lookeed at digi 001 back in the days, but it seems like a step backward. 24 tracks - not enough. And I really need midi to work as well. [quote]Originally posted by Julian [b] separate track, but I sum signals like Bass drum mic's (often 2) and gtr mic's (often 2) prior to the converters. I have a Pultec 4 into 1 mono mixer I use for this. (I have no 'real / traditional' console)[/b][/quote] Since you don't have hardware console you don't do separate tracks. you sum all your tracks in PT (internal mixing)? Thanks. ------------------ Visit http://www.DarlingNikkie.com/sounds for free MP3's

[AEW]

OK another solution if you want to mix outside of PT. Pro Tools Mix with IO card or Mix Plus, 2 x ADAT 24 Bridge (32 IO), Panasonic DA7 with 3 x ADAT cards (24 IO) and if you want more than 24 IO on the DA7 you will need to link-up 2 of them which will give you the option of 48 IO via the ADAT cards. OR a Nuendo rig with the Hammer Fall and the DA7 option OR Mackie Nick

[Pro Jules]

Mr Darling wrote: Since you don't have hardware console you don't do separate tracks. you sum all your tracks in PT (internal mixing)? Correct, what makes it possible is attaching outboard reverbs via digital i/o - up until JUST RECENTLY plug in reverb has been a let-down / not good enough. It's has just become pretty damn good I have to say. For those on a host / native based system, I strongly recommend a dual engine reverb / multi FX unit (Lexicon just brought out a new budget one) This can be run via SPDIF i/o and will GREATLY save on CPU 'power drain'. It will provide two seperate, far lusher 'deluxe' reverbs than ever available within your computers plug in array and free up your CPU for use with eq's and compressors. + it is fun to tweak a hardware box & 'cheat the computer'! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Jules This message has been edited by Julian standen on 08-11-2001 at 09:29 AM

[Logan]

I'm using a dual P111 800 pc with all Scsi 10,000 Rpm drives I use an Rme hammerfall card which allows 3 sets of light pipe signals in and out plus spidif. For converters I use the RME ADI pro 8 which has 8 IO at 24\48 the card will do 24/96 but I don't find the 96 worth the drive space. I also use a tango 24 as a second set of 8 i/o. I'm using Nuendo and record pretty much at the 32 bit setting as I seem to get more headroom. I'm running Win 2000 as an OS and it's very stable. The Rme converters are very good and I think they are the equal of Apoggees for much less money. I use Waves and TC plugs and will get a UAD card when the win 2000 drivers have been sorted out. I can do 16 tracks in while playing back 16 and this has always met my needs. The RME card allows zero latencey monitoring if you have a mixer. Everything is routed to patchbays and a 32\8 Soundcraft series 800 mixer. I mix in the DAW and through the board depending on what sounds better at the time. The Frontend is mostly pres, a Buzz Ma2.2 some Drawmer mx60s and sometimes a borrowed Great River and a borrowed John Hardy. A 16 track analogue machine is patched in as well and the drums often get recorded here first for some tape compression. Unfortunately a gear split with a former partner ment the loss of the 1" 16 trk analogue and I have to make do with the 1/2 inch fostex G-16, but I still find it adds to the drums to pass through it first. I find the small projects can stay in the DAW and sound fine but the larger the track count the more likely I will mix analogue using outboard gear and run back in to the DAW as a stereo pair. I would love to have the Cranesong converters for this purpose, but they're still on the wish list. I use mostly Lexicon and Yamaha verbs and a bunch of RNCs for outboard gear. Have my eye on a 1" Otari ,but I'm conflicted as tape costs are constantly going up and the punters I record seem to have less money every year. I master in Wavelab for my demo type projects, but would prefer to send projects that will be released out to a proper mastering house, and recommend this to my clients. If you are only recording stereo I'd take a look at Wavelab, it's definitely the best of the Steinberg programs, sounds great, with great editing and Apoggee UV22 dithering to finish up. All that said if I had a richer client base I'd be taking a serious look at the latest Radar. Take care Logan

[copacapripacbell.net]

I am using a dual 533 G4 with 384MB's of RAM 30GB internal HD Storage. 18GB Seagate barracuda For Audio 40Gb Firewire 5400 rpm for storage. RME Hammerfall DSP audio PCI and breakout I/O box Steinberg 8I/O (RME ADi-8) converter 44.1/48k Lucid9624 AD/DA converters for 96k work The new ADi-8 96 is on the wish list. Cubase VST 32 5.0 Nuendo (seriously rocks) Mastelink,Fostex D-5 DAT,MCI Jh110 for 2 track mastering. Alesis ADAT M20,XT20 Waves Gold Bundle,Antares,Just about everything Spectral/Steinberg Plug-ins Rock projects get mixed out to my analog board Dynamix 3000 moded by previous owner. sounds incredible. Reverb: Lexicon 300L,LXP-1 ------------------ Cheers, La Vida Musica Copa Capri Recorders Hollyhood Productions