Considering iPad to Macbook Mainstage migration and have questions

[Sam Mullins]

As some of you may have seen in other threads, I recently went through a rig conversion from Nord Stage 3/Korg Kronos to Yamaha CK88/Arturia Keylab mkii/iPad with Camelot Pro and apps. So far so good.  I've played a few gigs and only had minor issues. Camelot Pro has been stable and the apps have been mostly stable.

 

My problem is with the overall quality of sounds.  No complaints on bread and butter sounds (B-3X, Neo-Soul Keys, Ravenscroft). And there are a lot of interesting synth apps that have their strengths.  But I find it lacking in what I would call the ROMpler realm, i.e. quality samples of real world instruments. My main sources for this are Module and Pure Synth Platinum.

 

So I'm thinking of replacing the iPad/apps with:

- low end Macbook Air 13 M1 (512GB SSD and 8GB memory). 
- Mainstage and associated sound libraries
- NI Komplete
- Arturia Analog Lab

- A few specialty apps (Ravenscroft, B-3X)

 

I already have all of this software on my M1 Mac mini, so the good part is I can experiment prior to making the decision.  I'm must starting to play with Mainstage and some questions.

 

It seems that memory management is a concern.  It is my understanding that every instrument used in the patches of a set stays in memory and that can be problem.  I understand the use of aliases to reduce this but still have concerns.  In Camelot Pro, I have default Set list with all 80 songs we play.  For each gig, I simply make a duplicate of that default set list with "ghost copies" (similar to Mainstage alias) and rearrange the order of the songs.  In addition, Camelot Pro has an option to unload all apps when you change songs within the set list. So memory is never an issue. As far as I can tell this is not an option with a set for Mainstage.  Any advice on how to deal with this?

 

The premium for going from 8GB to 16GB is pretty steep (like $450) and I would rather avoid that.  

[ElmerJFudd]

You are correct that you need to decide 8gb or 16gb (or more) at point of sale because the SoC in Apple Silicon Macs have the RAM soldered in.  There is a performance gain for this but also forces us to pay Apple‘s price for RAM. 
 

I would suggest at this time, any Mac you intend to keep for 8+ years should he configured with at least 16gb of RAM. You’ll kick yourself that you skimped on it with each passing year.  

Logic/MainStage, Final Cut, Adobe Suite, etc. etc. all benefit from more than 8gb RAM. 
 

 

[Sam Mullins]

5 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

You are correct that you need to decide 8gb or 16gb (or more) at point of sale because the SoC in Apple Silicon Macs have the RAM soldered in.  There is a performance gain for this but also forces us to pay Apple‘s price for RAM. 
 

I would suggest at this time, any Mac you intend to keep for 8+ years should he configured with at least 16gb of RAM. You’ll kick yourself that you skimped on it with each passing year.  

Logic/MainStage, Final Cut, Adobe Suite, etc. etc. all benefit from more than 8gb RAM. 
 

 

Yeah, my Mac Mini has 16GB because I was pretty sure I would regret it on Logic if I went with 8GB.  Was hoping to get away cheaper on this live thing...can't imagine for a given song that 8GB would be a problem, but a whole set's worth of songs is obviously a bigger concern.  Thus my question on the memory management options.  

[ElmerJFudd]

2 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

Yeah, my Mac Mini has 16GB because I was pretty sure I would regret it on Logic if I went with 8GB.  Was hoping to get away cheaper on this live thing...can't imagine for a given song that 8GB would be a problem, but a whole set's worth of songs is obviously a bigger concern.  Thus my question on the memory management options.  

Have you thought about gigging the mini?  You could get away with a small monitor or use your iPad as a portable monitor? 

[ElmerJFudd]

Luna display wired over USB-C Cable, iPad to Mac MINI.

 

 

[Docbop]

As the old saying went....  You can never be too skinny or have too much RAM.       Especially in Apple SoC and RAM is part of the CPU and can't be upgraded.      Sure you could get away with smaller RAM but with lots of plugins an etc that means memory is getting juggled a lot, and that mean the CPU is stopping, doing a context switch to juggle RAM, and starting back up again.   Those context switches is what can slow things and create latency.    So having more RAM more can be kept in RAM at the ready reducing the number of context switching to juggle RAM.    

 

There is always context switch going on in CPU's so you want to try and reduce the amount that goes on. 

[Sam Mullins]

46 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Have you thought about gigging the mini?  You could get away with a small monitor or use your iPad as a portable monitor? 

 

Yes, it's possible that I would use the mini.   Probably would just get small monitor in that case.  I know there are ways to use iPad but don't really need another possible software interop issue.  

[ElmerJFudd]

1 minute ago, Sam Mullins said:

 

Yes, it's possible that I would use the mini.   Probably would just get small monitor in that case.  I know there are ways to use iPad but don't really need another possible software interop issue.  

A lot of people just close their laptop and go headless once the gig starts.  Similarly you probably just need the monitor and mouse or trackball to get setup.  

[Sam Mullins]

Took a look at Amazon and there are variety of options for a little more than $100 for 15" monitors.  Didn't realize until now that I could use the Thunderbolt/USB-C for both power and video feed so that makes the connection a little bit less hassle.   The more I think about it, it's probably better solution for me to just use my mac mini and put the small monitor in the same holder I used for my iPad pro (which is nicely visible in front of me for song notes, lyrics, etc).   The macbook would probably require me to put it more off to the side, which is not optimal.  Might start this way.  

 

My original question remains...regardless of whether I have 8 Gb or 16 GB, what is the strategy that people have for dealing with memory overload?  Do you break up songs into mini-set lists and manually select?  That seems less than optimal.    Or does this not come up for most people?

[ElmerJFudd]

 

9 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

Took a look at Amazon and there are variety of options for a little more than $100 for 15" monitors.  Didn't realize until now that I could use the Thunderbolt/USB-C for both power and video feed so that makes the connection a little bit less hassle.   The more I think about it, it's probably better solution for me to just use my mac mini and put the small monitor in the same holder I used for my iPad pro (which is nicely visible in front of me for song notes, lyrics, etc).   The macbook would probably require me to put it more off to the side, which is not optimal.  Might start this way.  

 

My original question remains...regardless of whether I have 8 Gb or 16 GB, what is the strategy that people have for dealing with memory overload?  Do you break up songs into mini-set lists and manually select?  That seems less than optimal.    Or does this not come up for most people?

It really depends on each song - which plugins and how many you are using.  

MainStage is very good at dealing with what you call up for the current song/setup.  

I am still on a 2013 MacBook Pro with 8gb of RAM and it's functional for say - pianoteq, a layered pad, bass split, eq and reverb.  

Apple silicon kicks my Mac's ass on the number of concurrent plugins you can run even with 8gb of RAM.  

 

[B4i]

If it helps I use an M1 Mac Mini with Mainstage with 8gb of RAM. I'm pretty heavy with the plugins; one patch per song, a few aliases but not a lot. I've never had any memory overload messages. I largely use Arturia, NI, Roland Cloud, Eventide and Waves. Interestingly Alchemy (built into Mainstage) is the biggest memory hog (about 1.5gb from memory)

 

I only went with the 8gb as I was expecting that M2 was going to be a big step over M1 so thought this Mac Mini was only going to be used for 2 years before swapping out. However its still working great, and M2 doesn't appear to be a big jump, so keeping with it.

 

I use an iPad Pro 12" as a screen using Duet Display perched on the end of my Stage 2EX 88 key.

 

All that said, would i choose 16gb RAM, if I could afford it, yes. If not 8gb does work. 

[Ibarch]

As another option instead of  Mainstage, take a look at Steinburgs VST Live. It can manage a project full of songs, with multiple set lists to define a smaller selection appropriate to load for any given set. It also has options around what to preload. 

[obxa]

On 7/13/2023 at 5:40 PM, Sam Mullins said:

My original question remains...regardless of whether I have 8 Gb or 16 GB, what is the strategy that people have for dealing with memory overload?  Do you break up songs into mini-set lists and manually select? 

In Mainstage,  Aliases are your friend.   Recycling the same patch,  or reference to said patch will save a ton of resources.   

Also, using some of the stock reverb plugins (e.g. Apple's humble Silver Reverb) or Stock EQ will make things run smoother.   With that in mind, some plugs like IK's Organ-can be  resource hogs with their built in FX.  With the exception of the spring reverb stomp box, I always defeat the built in  t "rack" limiter and reverbs if using B3-X.

 

With Kontakt  I use "Lite" versions of most of my string/brass libraries if available. Also routinely disable any convolution reverbs on any plug-ins. 

 

 For generic orchestral sounds only needed for occasional use (e.g. Pit Band) -  I just use stock Apple stuff, or this.  https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/1560-Xpand-2.   then  treat them like a GM module.   Xpand is great for  bread and butter stuff and is low-impact.  Periodically goes on sale cheap, or often free with some packages. 

 

If you're doing planned sets where songs are in a pre-determined order,  you can load specific concerts for each.   In my case: Artist shows, Pit band, and Sunday service I'd typically load other concerts during intermission(s).     I've had a hard time doing some wedding/bar gigs where songs might be audible calls, but if you have a couple of go-to generic synth patches you can pull it off;  and keep the piano/organ stuff always on the ready.

 

After using it since it's inception, I've come full circle with Mainstage - in that I treat it like a sound module. Rarely use it as my sole primary sound source anymore.   My current soundsets  are usually  about 10 patches that utilize Korg Triton/Wavestation, Kontakt (Strings, Epiano, MTron, and orchestral sounds).     I have a Silicon  16gb Macbook that is fearless,  but even my old 2015 8gb Air will still run most everything if not trying to run heavy-duty primary instruments.   That's why depending on the gig, I mix and layer Mainstage  with a hardware piano and/or organ keyboard to create a "hybrid rig".  That's made programming less involved, and less taxing on the computer- and me. 😀

 

FWIW just my opinion, and off-topic:  Personally I've found for peace of mind, having at least one primary keyboard that can make noise on its own, is the safest bet.  But I have friends and many others here  that are 100% mainstage. So whatever works best for you.   All depends on the gigs you're doing and your comfort level.   

 

 

(edited for spelling)

[Sam Mullins]

1 hour ago, obxa said:

In Mainstage,  Aliases are your friend.   Recycling the same patch,  or reference to said patch will save a ton of resources.   

Also, using some of the stock reverb plugins (e.g. Apple's humble Silver Reverb) or Stock EQ will make things run smoother.   With that in mind, some plugs like IK's Organ-can be  resource hogs with their built in FX.  With the exception of the spring reverb stomp box, I always defeat the built in  t "rack" limiter and reverbs if using B3-X.

….

If you're doing planned sets where songs are in a pre-determined order,  you can load specific concerts for each.   In my case: Artist shows, Pit band, and Sunday service I'd typically load other concerts during intermission(s).     I've had a hard time doing some wedding/bar gigs where songs might be audible calls, but if you have a couple of go-to generic synth patches you can pull it off;  and keep the piano/organ stuff always on the ready.

 

After using it since it's inception, I've come full circle with Mainstage - in that I treat it like a sound module. Rarely use it as my sole primary sound source anymore.   My current soundsets  are usually  about 10 patches that utilize Korg Triton/Wavestation, Kontakt (Strings, Epiano, MTron, and orchestral sounds).     I have a Silicon  16gb Macbook that is fearless,  but even my old 2015 8gb Air will still run most everything if not trying to run heavy-duty primary instruments.   That's why depending on the gig, I mix and layer Mainstage  with a hardware piano and/or organ keyboard to create a "hybrid rig".  That's made programming less involved, and less taxing on the computer- and me. 😀

 

FWIW just my opinion, and off-topic:  Personally I've found for peace of mind, having at least one primary keyboard that can make noise on its own, is the safest bet.  But I have friends and many others here  that are 100% mainstage. So whatever works best for you.   All depends on the gigs you're doing and your comfort level.   

 

 

Thanks for the detailed response!  

 

I’ve started down this path using my 16GB Mac mini and am taking an approach much like what you are describing.  In my CK88/Keylab/iPad setup most of the bread and butter keyboard sounds are handled by the CK88m (except doing organ with B-3X).  So at first, I’m just duplicating on MainStage what I did on my iPad.  It’s a lot more than 10 patches but a lot of that will be modeled synths that won’t take much memory.  So I’m guessing my concern about memory won’t manifest itself in this first iteration.  Then I’ll probably start experimenting with using things like Ravenscroft instead of the CK88 piano and see how that goes.  

 

I got the hang of the alias thing.  Not only using for synths, but because I use a lot of the same CK88 patches, I have an external sound alias for each of the common CK setups (CFX only, bass + Rhodes, acoustic bass + piano, etc) that gets reused in the channel strips of many of the patches.  

 

And completely agree on your last point; would never gig without a primary 88 that could cover the basics.  As it stands, I could do about 2/3 of our songs on CK88 alone; so I could get through a typical evening even in the case of complete failure of iPad or MainStage.  

[AnotherScott]

On 7/13/2023 at 11:39 AM, Sam Mullins said:

It seems that memory management is a concern.  It is my understanding that every instrument used in the patches of a set stays in memory and that can be problem.  I understand the use of aliases to reduce this but still have concerns.  In Camelot Pro, I have default Set list with all 80 songs we play.  For each gig, I simply make a duplicate of that default set list with "ghost copies" (similar to Mainstage alias) and rearrange the order of the songs.  In addition, Camelot Pro has an option to unload all apps when you change songs within the set list. So memory is never an issue. As far as I can tell this is not an option with a set for Mainstage.  Any advice on how to deal with this?

 

I was wondering if this was satisfactorily resolved.  A couple of related points, in case there is still concern about this...

 

... if Camelot Pro was better able to do what you needed (because of its "option to unload all apps when you change songs within the set list"), you might consider just running the Mac version of CP (plus you already know how to make it do what you want).

 

... Have you looked into Gig Performer? It has a reputation for being particularly efficient in its use of resources, and in their comparison chart, they list a particular feature that sounds relevant here, "Dynamic plugin loading." See: https://gigperformer.com/gig-performer-vs-mainstage-vs-cantabile-vs-camelot-pro.html

 

[Sam Mullins]

On 1/7/2024 at 8:07 AM, AnotherScott said:

 

I was wondering if this was satisfactorily resolved.  A couple of related points, in case there is still concern about this...

 

... if Camelot Pro was better able to do what you needed (because of its "option to unload all apps when you change songs within the set list"), you might consider just running the Mac version of CP (plus you already know how to make it do what you want).

 

... Have you looked into Gig Performer? It has a reputation for being particularly efficient in its use of resources, and in their comparison chart, they list a particular feature that sounds relevant here, "Dynamic plugin loading." See: https://gigperformer.com/gig-performer-vs-mainstage-vs-cantabile-vs-camelot-pro.html

 

 

I've played a couple gigs since changing over and everything seems to be OK.  I'm relatively new to Mac's (last couple years) after using Windows for music for decades.  So part of this was just understanding more about the metrics in Activity Monitor around dynamic memory usage...and not panicking about the used figure but paying some attention to memory pressure and swap.  Also I did the following:

 

- Separated the ~80 songs (by alphabetical order) into four concerts.

- When I do a show with say 3 sets of 13 songs, I just create a new Concert for each of the sets (from a template file) and then pull in the 13 patches for each set from the four concerts above.   

 

It's a slightly more arduous setup process than what I had on Camelot Pro, but not too bad.  And I haven't had any memory issues on a 16GB machine.  

 

Also, I'll add that my use of aliases ended up being pretty limited.  Mostly within a single patch that happened to use the EXACT same instrument and settings but on different key ranges.  When I tried to use aliases across patches (i.e. songs for me), there was almost always some difference in the setting for the patch for the two songs that made aliases unusable.  This is because most of my use of Mainstage/plugins is for non bread and butter sounds.  As mentioned earlier, I try to cover as much of the basic stuff on CK88 as possible so that if there is a Mac/Mainstage problem, I can do 75% of our songs without it.   But that's probably more unique to my use case (traditional performance with set lists) than it is for other paradigms (worship service, musical theater).

 

I have not checked out the other programs mentioned above on a Mac.  I didn't mention one of the other factors in my decision to go from iPad to Mac, which was simply that I'm trying to reduce the number of tools I'm using and become more adept at those tools.  Since I use Logic for sequencing, the MainStage paradigm fits with that philosophy.  Approaching retirement age and the value of my time has become increasingly my focus 😀  Want to spend as much time actually making music rather than learning tech tools (this sounds easy, but I'm an engineer by profession and get sucked into these things if I'm not careful.)

 

[obxa]

6 hours ago, Sam Mullins said:

When I do a show with say 3 sets of 13 songs, I just create a new Concert for each of the sets (from a template file) and then pull in the 13 patches for each set from the four concerts above.   

 

That's perfect and ideal way to do it.   Even if your set list has a couple of curveballs, you can always grab some generic patches to cover, or your CK.   Songs on my Mainstage gigs are 98% set in order, so that method works well with a couple of concert loads for longer shows if needed.  But as you guessed, if you're on a sit-in or loose bar gig might not have what you need for off the cuff calls.  For those gigs,  I do hardware  and divide the audience ratio of alcohol consumption to critical listening  to determine how exact my sounds have to be. 😀. 

 

6 hours ago, Sam Mullins said:

Since I use Logic for sequencing, the MainStage paradigm fits with that philosophy.

Same here.   I gave Gig Performer a good try.   Really liked it, but just wasn't a good fit for me - I was too set with MS.   Would recommend it to someone just getting started who is not using Logic. (...or on Windows)   But for $30,  the two worlds of Logic and Mainstage crossover nicely and as you alluded, you're not having to learn a completely different methodology.

 

There's a wealth of info out there for Mainstage from Theater as well as Worship folks (where like Nords, it's heavily prevalent). Some may not apply to what you're doing musically but you'll find a general consensus on things that carry over. Especially about housekeeping and routing stuff. 

 

Many power users only view MS in edit mode instead of performance page  because it allegedly uses a little less resources.  I find it distracting and haven't noticed any significant difference.  With that in mind, I've simplified my MS sounds enough that I can keep it close by without having to look at it all the time. 

 

  If you haven't already, couple things I'd suggest to always put in concert setups:

 

  1.   Midi activity indicator- I do a big honking round one;   but with low key color that can still be seen from afar more than than the stock CPU/acitivy thing on top.    2.  A panic button with access on-screen, mapped to my nano-control,  and also mapped to the lowest key on my keyboard controller.  That last one works great on 88/73 boards,  but sometimes hit it by mistake on 61 keyboards.     I haven't played a CK yet,  but bet you can easily implement controlling Mainstage from it. 

3. As a back up or layer to your hardware or for a rehearsal rig:  a generic Apple stock piano and organ patch, both un-enabled to save resources. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Sam Mullins said:

Want to spend as much time actually making music rather than learning tech tools

 

I think you're  instinctively on the right path.  Wish I had started with that mindset.  We have a running joke at my church for the stuff I'm having to run.  We call  MS "Pain-stage", and Live11 is "Dis-Abelton" .

 I feel your pain about going too deep- which is why I had to find a comfort level using Mainstage (and Ipad when I tried that route).   My goal is use it as a supplementary  tool and have it get out of my way -even if not using all of it's potential.  You can tweak MS to death, as keyboardists we're prone to do just that.      There are a ton of concert templates both free and low cost, so you don't have to reinvent the wheel.  I've used those to learn concepts, and modified as needed.   

 

When prepping for a  new show/gig now, be it Mainstage or hardware-  I try to spend no more than 35% of time on sound design or tweaks.  I'm getting better, but it's hard. 

 Never regretted spending more time learning/rehearsing the actual music,  but have had diminishing returns on  endless tweaking of  things like horn - string patches or echo settings.

 

 

[Tusker]

5 hours ago, obxa said:

You can tweak MS to death, as keyboardists we're prone to do just that.     

 

+1000

 

Love your entire, informative post, and I hope it's ok that I would use this sentence as a jumping off point. MS is great but it can take you away from being the musical contributor you are. For me, each new project (or setlist) is a tech deep dive, but I have to come up for air if I am to add musical value. So it's a rhythm of dive-surface-dive-surface. Don't forget to resurface and to reconnect with your own sense of music. A comment for those who contribute in church: we don't remember what type of harp David played because it's just not that important. 😉

[Sam Mullins]

9 hours ago, obxa said:

2.  A panic button with access on-screen, mapped to my nano-control,  and also mapped to the lowest key on my keyboard controller.  That last one works great on 88/73 boards,  but sometimes hit it by mistake on 61 keyboards.     I haven't played a CK yet,  but bet you can easily implement controlling Mainstage from it. 

 

This is on my to do list...I occasionally get stuck notes and jumping for the computer keyboard is not great in the middle of a song.  I will likely find a button on my Arturia KeyLab 61 (maybe Transport Stop) that I don't normally use in performance.  

 

Thanks for your detailed post!

[Sam Mullins]

16 hours ago, Sam Mullins said:

It's a slightly more arduous setup process than what I had on Camelot Pro, but not too bad. 

 

I'll just add that this comment is relevant to setting up set lists for each show with the existing patches.  

 

For creating a new individual patch, I find Mainstage to be more straightforward than Camelot Pro on the iPad.  I seem to get to an acceptable place quicker. 

[Sam Mullins]

One more detail on my transition:  In the end, the Mac Mini plus USB-C Monitor route resulted in a lot less cabling mess than the iPad (no USB Hub, no camera kits, no cables for the USB power into the camera kit, etc)  Pretty clean setup on Mac Mini:  two USB cables to keyboards to Mac Mini, one USB-C cable to monitor and AC cord.  Keyboard/mouse is bluetooth.

[obxa]

Most welcome. 

 

25 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

In the end, the Mac Mini plus USB-C Monitor route resulted in a lot less cabling mess than the iPad

Exactly.  I know others have had better luck than me,  but found the whole Ipad thing to be to a convoluted mess and wouldn't trust it for anything mission critical.  Plus at the time I was trying to use it, was doing a weekly televised service for big church down here.  It looked bad; even using black colored cables/adaptors.    Loved the way stuff sounded at home & invested in ton of apps.  Korg Module or M1/Wavestations apps by themselves ended up being best option, but could never get the amount of control needed, and always had glitchy sound issues. 

Rely heavily on Ipad for charts, so had to either do the multi-app dance (cumbersome while trying to play) or bring another ipad.  Stressful enough doing music part. Found it easier to just do laptop/MS and call it a day.  Since downgrading  MS to supplemental,  even stopped bringing an audio interface and often just use the headphone output.  

 

 If Apple ever ports Mainstage to Ipad, might give it another go for low impact gigs.   

 

Love the idea of using a Mini. So what USB-C monitor did you use?

 

 

[Sam Mullins]

1 hour ago, obxa said:

 

Love the idea of using a Mini. So what USB-C monitor did you use?

 

 

I got an Arzopa 15.6 Portable Monitor last July off of Amazon.  I didn't do a ton of research on it, just found something that was USB-C powered, around 15" and inexpensive ($96) at the time.  Another goal of this transition was to get something bigger than my iPad Pro screen size.  This is nothing I would do a lot of programming on (old eyes) but I do that on my normal 42" monitor.  It's big enough that in Perform screen I get an adequate size on chords/lyrics/etc.  And it's very light and works fine in the iPad holder I was using previously.  Doesn't look like that particular model exists on Amazon anymore. 

FYI, I use the audio interface on my CK88 (works like a charm) and in addition to the cabling hassle, it means that since the Mac audio and CK88 audio are both coming out of the CK88 outputs, I can get the balance right on that single stereo feed and never have to worry about it (unlike when I had two keyboards feeding two mixer channels.)

 

So overall I'm liking the whole change and wish I would have done this initially instead of detouring through the iPad route for a year (after my previous 7 years on Stage 3/Kronos)  But some of that iPad learning will still be useful....I've put together a portable battery powered rig that is iPad mini velcro'd to CT-S500 running Camelot Pro with just a few bread and butter keyboard apps (B-3X, Ravenscroft, Neo-Soul Keys) and a JBL EON One Compact.  One trip from car.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

On 1/9/2024 at 12:00 PM, Sam Mullins said:

One more detail on my transition:  In the end, the Mac Mini plus USB-C Monitor route resulted in a lot less cabling mess than the iPad (no USB Hub, no camera kits, no cables for the USB power into the camera kit, etc)  Pretty clean setup on Mac Mini:  two USB cables to keyboards to Mac Mini, one USB-C cable to monitor and AC cord.  Keyboard/mouse is bluetooth.

You could also use an iPad as a monitor, and depending on how you do it, you might be able to eliminate more cabling... assuming your iPad is fully charged, the iPad would not require a power cable or necessarily even a hard-wired connection to the Mac Mini. I've been looking into the various options here myself. (Some related info at https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/using-ipad-to-control-desktop.2345438/ )

 

On 1/9/2024 at 1:22 PM, obxa said:

Rely heavily on Ipad for charts, so had to either do the multi-app dance (cumbersome while trying to play) or bring another ipad.

If you have one of the newer (and larger) iPads, Stage Manager has improved the ability to work with multiple apps, whether by keeping two apps visible on the screen (more usefully than the earlier slide-over) and/or by giving you ever-present icons along one side that let you switch among apps with single taps. The newest update is supposed to improve that function (i.e. more flexibility in multiple window placement), but I haven't checked that out myself yet.

[Sam Mullins]

12 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

You could also use an iPad as a monitor, and depending on how you do it, you might be able to eliminate more cabling... assuming your iPad is fully charged, the iPad would not require a power cable or necessarily even a hard-wired connection to the Mac Mini. I've been looking into the various options here myself. (Some related info at https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/using-ipad-to-control-desktop.2345438/ )

I looked into it at the time and was dissuaded by a) having to make sure one more piece of software works and b) wanting a bigger display anyway.  But certainly a viable option for some particularly if you are bringing an iPad for other purposes.