1958 Hammond M3 (black) worth it?

[Jose EB5AGV]

Hi all,

 

There is locally (to me, in Spain, at less than 100km) an as-is, long time not powered, but complete, black Hammond M3 (Form A2, if that is important). It seems all original, with some fading on corners.

 

I have never played an M3 nor a B3. I am good at electronics and mechanics so I think would be able to fix and maintain it.

 

The question is, taking into account the market in Spain has nothing to do with the USA one for this kind of item (I mean, there are lots less and for sure pricier than there), is it a worthy purchase?

 

Asking price is 800€. I guess I could get it a bit cheaper, but anyway, is an M3 a good unit for entering the Hammond world?. It would be just used at home.

 

I know digital options may be lots more convenient... But want to know your view 😉

 

Thanks!

 

Jose 

[ABECK]

The M3 is a great organ for entering the Hammond world.  There are a lot of resources available for maintaining and or customizing.  A while back, I bought one and completely disassembled it so I could fully clean, and add foldback, lowered the bottom manual an octave, tweaked the trigger point to be very high, removed percussion drop, cleaned all the bus bars and added a 1/4" output.  I only regret that I didn't re-cap the tone generator, as mine is fairly dark sounding.  I spent a good 6 months working on it and learned a TON.  I run mine through a Neo Vent II and it is a joy to play.

800 Euro sounds pricey though.  In my neck of the woods, M3s can be found anywhere from free to $500.

[CEB]

If you are getting a spinet then the M3 is the one to get.  The generator has more in common with the B3/C3 than any other spinet.  It’s a spinet with 44 key manuals so there is no stock fold back.  Only 7 drawbars so you won’t be copying 9 tonebar registrations verbatim but the theory is the same.  If you were in the States I would say get the M3. A good M3 has great tone. But 800 € I would probably get a clone.  But that’s just me, an old organ nerd with four Hammonds already. 

[ABECK]

5 minutes ago, CEB said:

Only 7 drawbars so you won’t be copying 9 tonebar registrations verbatim but the theory is the same.  

Upper manual has 9, but no foldback.

 

[mate stubb]

M3 has the waterfall keys like the larger consoles instead of the (IMO inferior) diving board keys of the M-100 and L-100. Chorus vibrato scanner is also faithful to the consoles.

 

See if you can get a better deal.

[Adan]

I'd say that's at least twice the price you'd expect to pay for a non-working M3 in the US.  It doesn't sound like you've been Hammond shopping for very long, so unless you need something soon, I'd sit back and keep an eye on the market.  or you could be "one of those guys" and send a lowball offer.

[Baldwin Funster]

I was disappointed by the M3 when I got one. The magic is on the leslie. So unless you get a leslie with a 6 pin cable connection or know someone who can wire in a neo ventilator and half moon switch, it's going to be a very tame experience. 

[Adan]

12 minutes ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

I was disappointed by the M3 when I got one. The magic is on the leslie. So unless you get a leslie with a 6 pin cable connection or know someone who can wire in a neo ventilator and half moon switch, it's going to be a very tame experience. 

That's how it goes.  In the paddleboard world the conventional wisdom is "save your money on the board, spend it on the paddle."   in a similar vein, I'd look at my budget and think about what it will take to get an organ and leslie paired up, but spend more if needed on the leslie.

[ABECK]

46 minutes ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

I was disappointed by the M3 when I got one. The magic is on the leslie. So unless you get a leslie with a 6 pin cable connection or know someone who can wire in a neo ventilator and half moon switch, it's going to be a very tame experience. 

True...well, half true.   The playability of a real Hammond is also a big factor.  Between the 9 key contacts, key length (all the way back to the pivot point, the tactile rocker switches and the antique smell....it all adds up.  Plus, glissandos, smears and windmill chops are way more confident feeling on a real Hammond than a clone.  But without the leslie, I agree, you are only half way there.

 

[Konnector]

M3's sound great but you'll need a Leslie to bring it to life. The 44 note keyboards can be a compromise sometimes, but otherwise it's got "that" sound. Asking price is way too high if you ask me. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

Many thanks to you all!

 

I will keep an eye for a better deal and will probably also make a low offer on this one. I have nothing to lose!

[zxcvbnm098]

Also, many songs that most assume were recorded on a B3 were really done on an M3 -  Booker T. and the MG's "Green Onions" and Boston's " Foreplay/Long Time" being a couple of the more well-known. 

 

I have a feeling M3's might be somewhat uncommon in Spain? As others have said, it is a bit pricey for those of us in the US where they were and are plentiful. But that might not be that bad of a price, although I would certainly try to get it lower. Even B3's are relatively uncommon, at least in the UK. The C3 was far more popular there, and I've heard the spinet L-100 was fairly common over there? Not nearly a desirable as an M3 would be.  But I don't recall people in Europe/UK mentioning M3's......although others here might be more informed?

[bjosko]

I think it is a ok price for an M3 here in Europe, but it might vary from country to country. I have seen them around a bit higher priced where I live ( Denmark). 
My first Hammond was an M100, but I wished back then that I had bought an M3 instead because of the keys.

When I later bought a A100, I often missed the more simple sound from the spinet, it had less body, but could scream trough the guitar wall. 
A good tube Leslie is 80 % of the full experience and sound, but a Ventilator through some decent amplification could come close.

[linwood]

$800 wouldn't bug me if it played nice. Like other have said....grab a Leslie, too. Like same day.

[Outkaster]

Free is better there are a ton of M3s around . We sent 7 to Italy last year.

[stoken6]

I lost my Hammond virginity to an M3 at a blues jam many years ago - we used a real Leslie to be safe. I don't regret the experience, we had a good time. 

 

(I can't comment on how the people watching felt...)

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Jose EB5AGV]

5 hours ago, Outkaster said:

Free is better there are a ton of M3s around . We sent 7 to Italy last year.

 

Interesting... Do you recall how much the shipping for one unit is?

[bjosko]

Remember that if imported from US, you will need both a frequency and a voltage transformer.

A frequency converter from 50 to 60 cycles might be the expensive part of it.

 

[ABECK]

This is a COVID era vid I did with the M3 into a Ventilator II.  Definitely a capable organ.

 

[yannis D]

If you like the Booker T. Sound the price is right for us Europeans. Eventually you will have to find a Leslie or something like a Neo Vent sim to bring it to itsefull potential 

The price is good IMO 

[Outkaster]

3 hours ago, bjosko said:

Remember that if imported from US, you will need both a frequency and a voltage transformer.

A frequency converter from 50 to 60 cycles might be the expensive part of it.

 

Get it from Mike over at Trek

[SMcD]

On 5/22/2023 at 9:46 AM, ABECK said:

The M3 is a great organ for entering the Hammond world.  There are a lot of resources available for maintaining and or customizing.  A while back, I bought one and completely disassembled it so I could fully clean, and add foldback, lowered the bottom manual an octave, tweaked the trigger point to be very high, removed percussion drop, cleaned all the bus bars and added a 1/4" output.  I only regret that I didn't re-cap the tone generator, as mine is fairly dark sounding.  I spent a good 6 months working on it and learned a TON.  I run mine through a Neo Vent II and it is a joy to play.

800 Euro sounds pricey though.  In my neck of the woods, M3s can be found anywhere from free to $500.

 

Maybe this is an ignorant question, but why is foldback an asset? My understanding is that it exists in the B3 as a concession so that you don't need more tonewheels for the frequencies on the low and high ends of the spectrum. Presumably the alternative to foldback is actually having those frequencies (e.g. having the true fundamentals in the bottom octave), right? If so, why wouldn't you want the fuller sound that would provide?

[ABECK]

Without foldback, the 9th drawbar will not produce any sound on the top 18 keys.  (Basically you've reached the upper frequency of the tone generator before you reached the end of the keyboard.)  The solution is to repeat( foldback) a section of frequencies on those upper keys.  The customization on the M3 involves adding longer bus bars and adding a whole mess of wiring.  I got very good at soldering.  

Foldback is great when you want to have anything with that whistle stop sound, like 888000008.

[SMcD]

Ah, I see. I thought "not-foldback" implied having the theoretical frequencies the drawbars should produce, throughout the entire range. In other words, I translated "adding foldback" to "removing fullness". In retrospect it makes more sense that the tone generator doesn't have those frequencies at all, hence foldback being an asset. Thanks for the clarification!