What is Hip?....without a horn section?

[ewall08530]

This video has 17 years of dust on it but we did have a sax and had it fairly tight.  I’ve never had the pleasure of doing this tune with a horn section….

[ProfD]

12 hours ago, timwat said:

An interesting cover

That's how cover tunes should be played...own it.😎

[Joe P]

3 hours ago, ewall08530 said:

This video has 17 years of dust on it but we did have a sax and had it fairly tight.  I’ve never had the pleasure of doing this tune with a horn section….

Tracy knocking it out of the park as usual!

[MAJUSCULE]

I'd just be worried about playing a fake brass sound with a real horn player if it's not a tight, rehearsed thing. As said, so much of the sound of TOP is the tightness and punchiness of the brass. Playing a different sound, like B3, can help smooth over the rough edges.

[TJ Cornish]

On 5/19/2023 at 12:16 AM, timwat said:

An interesting cover:

 

 

Love the sound; I think I would at least have plugged in the keyboard for the music video. I kept looking for a USB cable from the Nord Lead and then I caught a glimpse of the empty mains socket.

 

[HammondDave]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:16 PM, timwat said:

An interesting cover:

 

 

 That was so cool I really enjoyed it. Great playing all around. In regards to one of the  commenters saying that they would not be sued if they called the song something else, well, I argue that point. These parts are taken directly from the original.  Also, not taking anything away from her excellent musicianship, I am surprised that the organ player did not open that split point during her solo, for being such an excellent player… why would she do that? Finally, I can’t believe that people think that Nord creates a good Hammond sound. No Hammond sounds that thin and artificial. 

[o0Ampy0o]

4 hours ago, HammondDave said:

 That was so cool I really enjoyed it. Great playing all around. In regards to one of the  commenters saying that they would not be sued if they called the song something else, well, I argue that point. These parts are taken directly from the original.  Also, not taking anything away from her excellent musicianship, I am surprised that the organ player did not open that split point during her solo, for being such an excellent player… why would she do that? Finally, I can’t believe that people think that Nord creates a good Hammond sound. No Hammond sounds that thin and artificial. 

It might be interesting academically but a stretch legally. Had this not been labeled a cover of What Is Hip? few people would notice enough similarity to connect the two unless they were making some other point like saying both songs include drummers.

[MathOfInsects]

I actually think the complication isn't the lack of the horn section, but the presence of the trumpet player. 

I've got a couple of musical suggestions, but my very first suggestion would be to reach out to the bandleader and see what he or she prefers that you do. Ultimately we're just employees hired to do a job. I'd want to find out what that job is--e.g., is this a project that prefers that things sound like the recordings? Or is this potentially going to be a J-Pop version of that tune anyway?

Then (or alternatively), I would ask the trumpet player the same question. "What do you need or want from me on that tune?"

Then and only then, I'd plan the attack, for which my first impulse was to say "organ playing horn parts" but when I took myself into the moment of the gig/song, I actually found myself thinking more along the lines of a Prince/Minneapolis pad playing under the trumpet instead. It's horn-ly but not a synthesizer playing horns, and organ- and pad-ly but not the organ player ignoring that it's really horns. It feels intentional and funky without pointing out everything it's not. 

[Stephen Fortner]

As far as samples, modeling, and divisi programming have come, I still never try to fake a horn section in the sense of making it sound like acoustic instruments. And I had this exact issue in a cover band that had one trumpet and one tenor sax. We were also doing tunes like "You Got To Funkifize" and "Getaway" by EWF. I prefer unapologetic sawtooth synth brass and/or Hammond with all drawbars out. I don't go for too much amplitude or filter envelope on the attack phase because at a live gig that's going to get lost and make things sound wheezy. You just want to fill up the spectrum with those bright harmonics and slap people in the face audio-wise.

[bjosko]

On 5/20/2023 at 6:37 PM, HammondDave said:

 Finally, I can’t believe that people think that Nord creates a good Hammond sound. No Hammond sounds that thin and artificial. 

Remember as the poster told this is a 17 year old video. Which other brands made a good clone back then ?
When listening to my old Nord C1 today (released in 2007) , even with a Vent, I have to say both Nord and the competitors have come a long way.

[El Lobo]

8 hours ago, Stephen Fortner said:

 fill up the spectrum with those bright harmonics and slap people in the face audio-wise.

I liked that way of putting it.

[El Lobo]

2 hours ago, bjosko said:

Remember as the poster told this is a 17 year old video. Which other brands made a good clone back then ?
When listening to my old Nord C1 today (released in 2007) , even with a Vent, I have to say both Nord and the competitors have come a long way.

I gig with my Nord 5D. Rehearsing with my other band (I'm only on horn) a keyboard player came by to sit in. I set up my old Electro2 for him to play. I was amazed at how bad the sounds were in that board. I thought it sounded pathetic and I was embarrassed that this very good player was playing it. When I first had it and gigged with it, I thought it was the coolest sounding thing on the planet. Times, technology, taste, and sounds change. 

[To B3]

Gov´t Mule´s version is a great example of that song without horns:

 

Gov´t MUle What Is Hip

[obxa]

On 5/21/2023 at 7:19 AM, Stephen Fortner said:

"unapologetic sawtooth synth brass"

I'm stealing this as a new patch name!!   I call many of mine "brass-tooth", and most of my (Nord) organ patches have synthbrass  as a layered option volume controlled by Mod Wheel.

 

 

[niacin]

47 minutes ago, obxa said:

I'm stealing this as a new patch name!!   I call many of mine "brass-tooth", and most of my (Nord) organ patches have synthbrass  as a layered option volume controlled by Mod Wheel.

 

 

I’d go with “Faceslap Brass” 😎

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, obxa said:

most of my (Nord) organ patches have synthbrass  as a layered option volume controlled by Mod Wheel.

Try modulating the filter cutoff a little with the wheel (or expression pedal) to emulate swells - surprisingly effective if you can nail the technique. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Theo Verelst]

The all female "cover" is somewhat attractive, but generally sucks. There's a need for a funky sound, 70s style preferably, which isn't perfect but "lives" in certain sound elements and rhythmic and chord accuracy that's to me a great sound, also approached live by T.O.P., so not just studio production, as I witnessed myself. The whole design of the song with the instruments is hip.

 

Going loud only isn't going to cut it. When I played this song live, with some horns, I noticed my far from copy-of-the-original keyboard parts (analog or digital brass, RD300 piano) could pretty much make or break the flow of yhe song and even the desire of some audiences to dance a bit or not...

 

T

[Adan]

My only contribution to this discussion is to say this might be a case where I'd push back on the BL whether to play the song.  I think it would depend on how much I've played with this lineup and the rhythm section in particular, and opportunities to rehearse.  What is your confidence level going to be going in?  I see moderate upside and potentially bigger downside if it doesn't come off.  Because it's the Bay Area, most people will know the song and will hold you to a higher standard.

 

But I also know nothing about the gig.  Maybe its a function gig and the band is not the focus of attention, in which case you've got more leeway.

 

FWIW, I think of WIH as less of a dance song, more stand in one place and bob your head.  That uber-busy bassline just doesn't make my feet want to move.

[ProfD]

4 hours ago, Theo Verelst said:

There's a need for a funky sound, 70s style preferably, which isn't perfect but "lives" in certain sound elements and rhythmic and chord accuracy that's to me a great sound...

By design, the song is already a 50 year old funk tune.  Everything required is already in there. 

 

The best a non-funk musician can do is play the *right* beat and notes. 

 

Whether or not folks dance to the tune really depends on the audience.😎

[ewall08530]

On 5/21/2023 at 12:55 PM, bjosko said:

Remember as the poster told this is a 17 year old video. Which other brands made a good clone back then ?
When listening to my old Nord C1 today (released in 2007) , even with a Vent, I have to say both Nord and the competitors have come a long way.

I loved having that Nord Electro rack attached with Velcro sitting on the panel of my Roland RD 300SX (later 300GX). It was my 1 keyboard solution before I bought a Stage 2. 
The organ sound was lacking but a couple years later when I put the original Neo Ventilator on it the muffled sound came off the Nord Organ and it made a world of difference.  I still have that Vent and use it on the Stage 2 76. Still love it. ❤️

[TommyRude]

21 hours ago, To B3 said:

Gov´t Mule´s version is a great example of that song without horns:

 

Gov´t MUle What Is Hip

BINGO