Report: The troublesome audio gig

[Jose EB5AGV]

Gig report

 

So this is the famous gig, with the unknown sound system. And here we arrive, with our band own mixer console (which worked perfectly on last rehearsal just a couple days ago), a monitor for the singer (a Behringer 500W one, don't know the model) and three microphones (singer, drummer as presenter, secondary vocals). The guitar player has his own amplifier as also does the bass player, and I carry both the Behringer K1800FX and the smaller Behringer B205D, which I have just in case the venue audio system is OK to use for the keys, and then it would be used, with a mic stand I have also carried, as a monitor for me. I have used that approach before, and the B205D worked fine for that.

 

First problems

 

So, we setup all our gear and try to connect our mixer console (also Behringer... I see some pattern here 😅) to the venue PA. And there is an horrendous noise, not just the typical 50Hz power line hum, but higher frequency pulsing noises also. We have about two and a half hours to setup things... But we spend about an hour and a half trying to solve that. No way. I work on electronics all day and, to me, it is some weird ground problem (the venue is located on a relatively old building). All in all, we need some alternative.

 

A grin face

 

Of course, by that moment a grin face (like "I told you this could happen!") shows on me, although I try to hide it 😁

 

I am so glad to have with me the K1800FX !!!

 

The solution

 

The club sound guy tells us he has an old mixer console and he sets it up... and noise is mostly gone. Now, in perspective, I think the cause maybe that we used a power cord rolled extender and it was not fully deployed, so it could be acting like an antenna, picking up extra noise, because the ground was so-so. Anyway that old console has some limitations and we finally decide to run only vocals through it, as the connections are limited and, sincerely, the venue size is small enough to use just our individual amps. There are some feedback problems but, after a while, we have at least sounding vocals through venue PA and our monitor, and every one has his own amplifier properly setup.

 

Audio tests

 

We do some audio tests and tweakings with one of our songs. The public is already arriving, even if there is still about half an hour left. We find the sound is decent, not stellar by any means, but well, it may work. It should work.

 

The gig begins

 

So we go to the dressing room, we dress elegantly, and enter the stage. Some applause 😅

 

We start playing, it kind of sounds fine. Too loud for my liking. Drums are too loud for that small venue. Oh well...

 

Gig keeps going without problem... I am on the sweet playing spot, enjoying it. In the public there are several known faces, family and friends, for some of them is the first time they see me playing. I keep smiling at them. Music is s so great way to express myself. I love it! 😍

 

S*it happens

 

Of the 17 songs, we are on the 6th, getting into full gear, with a rock song and... my K1800FX suddently dies!!! 😭. I look at it... no lights. I check power cord and such. Nothing. It is completely gone. The band keeps playing without the keys to end that song.

 

I was not abusing the amp, it was perhaps at 60% if not less... and just died. I feel miserable for a second and then think on the B205D... There is no way I can get my audio through the venue PA with ease, so I fastly go for the small monitor, put it over the K1800FX, rotated 90 degrees as a makeshift stand, and hook it up. I setup volume and, after some talking from our singer to the public to buy me some time, I am ready for the 7th song. Ready, but nervous.

 

7th song and up

 

The small B205D does a surprisingly decent job. I am pushing it to 90% or more. It gets barely warm to the touch, but can imagine how it is inside. I can't do anything else but continue playing and pray for the best 🙏

 

We arrive to song 8th and do an small 15 minute break. I re-analyze my options and think that, due to the problems we had with the audio setup, my best bet is to continue with the monitor and keep the faith...

 

The gig ends

 

We reach the program last song, which is the 16th, and then, as an encore intro, I have some solo piano playing, while the singer thanks the public, and the other band members, which have gone out of the stage, return while I slowly introduce, after some left hand arpeggios and right hand improvising, the real rhythm of Zombie by The Cranberries. For that part, the B205D does an stellar job, sounding nice and crisp, and the effect we wanted with that encore intro is attained.

 

So we play Zombie at full strength and we are done!. More applause 😊

 

I feel a bit stressed, but happy to have gone through this. For sure, it is an experience I will never forget.

 

Some conclusions

 

(1) I am profoundly thankful to all of you for your advice on this, which made me extra cautious and so I carried both amps (although not thinking one could fail as it did, but that is what saved the day!)

 

(2) I can't trust again my old K1800FX until I fix and stress test it (I am already working on it and have found what failed, which were the power transistors. I have already ordered some replacements). I should say this is a barely used but old unit. It is dated 2009 and I got it used, as my first keyboard amplifier. I had used it previously for some hours and nothing indicated an imminent fault.

 

(3) Of course, I will look for a better amplifier ASAP 😄

 

(4) I will erect a monument to the little B205D as the one who saved my ass on that lousy gig!

 

Thank you all for reading this and sharing your real-life music knowledge!

 

Jose

[stoken6]

Great gig report. You are earning your dues as a gigging musician.

 

(And a good choice of song for an encore...)

 

Next question - were/are your ears ringing? I ran my B205D-equivalent at 75% last night and it was far too loud for me without protection. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Jose EB5AGV]

10 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Great gig report. You are earning your dues as a gigging musician.

 

(And a good choice of song for an encore...)

 

Next question - were/are your ears ringing? I ran my B205D-equivalent at 75% last night and it was far too loud for me without protection. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Thanks for your comments, deeply appreciated 🫂

 

The B205D was not pointing at me directly, it was at about 50cm from the floor, over the rotated K1800FX, around 60cm to my left, somewhat recessed, and pointing with an angle to project the sound to the public. But it was enough for monitoring purposes.

 

My ears ringed a bit today, but I would say mainly for the drums... 😠

 

Yes, I need to do something about that.

 

Jose

[Jose EB5AGV]

Here you have a picture of the gig... On this picture, taken by a friend, the bass player and sax player are not visible. Nor my audio amp, which was at my left. Those big columns are really a shame of that place!

 

[Baldwin Funster]

So I had a gig yesterday where I was asked am I going to run into the PA. I said yes but I'm also bringing my own powered monitor.

They said really? There are going to be many monitors there.

 

So gig rolls  around and the monitors are doing crazy stuff I won't  mention and every body is complaining.  Except me. I had my own sound and could hear clear as a bell. My expression pedal wouldn't work bur that's a different post. Bring your own monitors or be sorry. I did and I wasn't. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

7 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

So I had a gig yesterday where I was asked am I going to run into the PA. I said yes but I'm also bringing my own powered monitor.

They said really? There are going to be many monitors there.

 

So gig rolls  around and the monitors are doing crazy stuff I won't  mention and every body is complaining.  Except me. I had my own sound and could hear clear as a bell. My expression pedal wouldn't work bur that's a different post. Bring your own monitors or be sorry. I did and I wasn't. 

 

Well done!. I have learned the lesson: always have a Plan-B and, if possible, a Plan-C. And, most important, don't listen to the naysayers!

[Stokely]

A true example of "the show must go on!"
 

People largely won't become aware of "band troubles" unless the band makes them obvious.  I recall my brother telling me about getting to see Toad the Wet Sprocket on a reunion tour--what he noticed most of all was the guitarist fiddling constantly with his pedalboard and being obviously upset over it all night.  

Way back in the day, our frat band (we traveled all around the southeast US playing big fraternity/sorority parties with a huge PA) brought a big power distro box that hooked into the main power supply because you just couldn't trust the power that you'd get at some of these places.  Also because the massive power draw that the amps and lights would have overwhelmed a regular circuit   In these more modern times, I've had a couple issues with certain venues and have tried out a small battery backup with AVR (automatic voltage regulation).  So far it seems to have helped at those problem spots and as a bonus keeps your gear on if you do lose power.  

I've gotten a bit complacent with gig after gig where my in-ears just work.  I've got backups for every component of the rig, yet it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a powered speaker in my car as an "amp" or a wedge.  Having one saved our singer when her wireless system stopped working.   I'll need one for a couple fill-in gigs I've got coming up so I've been shopping around.  

 

[Chris Link]

8 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

Well done!. I have learned the lesson: always have a Plan-B and, if possible, a Plan-C. And, most important, don't listen to the naysayers!

I’m something of a “belt and suspenders” sort myself. I use IEMs as much as possible but typically bring a powered speaker (QSC CP12) along “just in case”. 

[KuruPrionz]

18 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

(2) I can't trust again my old K1800FX until I fix and stress test it (I am already working on it and have found what failed, which were the power transistors. I have already ordered some replacements). I should say this is a barely used but old unit. It is dated 2009 and I got it used, as my first keyboard amplifier. I had used it previously for some hours and nothing indicated an imminent fault.

 

I'm no expert in amp repair (I did build a 200 watt per side Heathkit amp once) and you probably know this but transistors don't usually fail unless something else has failed and passed along fatal current. You'll need to test other components that come ahead of the transistors in the circuit, otherwise the new transistors may fail as well. 

 

I'm also a photographer and was mentored by a pro wedding photographer who told me "One is none and two is one." and your story lends credence to that. Good on ya for having a spare!!!!

[Alexander Nagel]

19 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

So, we setup all our gear and try to connect our mixer console (also Behringer... I see some pattern here 😅) to the venue PA. And there is an horrendous noise, not just the typical 50Hz power line hum, but higher frequency pulsing noises also. We have about two and a half hours to setup things... But we spend about an hour and a half trying to solve that. No way. I work on electronics all day and, to me, it is some weird ground problem (the venue is located on a relatively old building).

 In situations like these when plugging my mixer into an unknown house system, this little box has been a blessing many times:

 

Palmer PLI 02 Line Isolation Box

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

1 hour ago, KuruPrionz said:

I'm no expert in amp repair (I did build a 200 watt per side Heathkit amp once) and you probably know this but transistors don't usually fail unless something else has failed and passed along fatal current. You'll need to test other components that come ahead of the transistors in the circuit, otherwise the new transistors may fail as well. 

 

I'm also a photographer and was mentored by a pro wedding photographer who told me "One is none and two is one." and your story lends credence to that. Good on ya for having a spare!!!!

 

Yes, I didn't want to get too technical, but I am a pro electronics repairman (it sounds somewhat presumptuous, but it is what I do for a living 😅) and of course have checked all surrounding components, the power supply, the driver transistors, all capacitors, voltage regulators, power resistors and such.

 

And, when testing it once fixed, it will have several pieces of test equipment attached, from ammeter to voltage meter, temperature meter and such. And will run an stress test of it, while monitoring vital constants 😁

 

I want to be sure it is fixed for good!

 

Although a second and better amp will be bought sooner than later 🥳

 

Jose

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

39 minutes ago, Alexander Nagel said:

 In situations like these when plugging my mixer into an unknown house system, this little box has been a blessing many times:

 

Palmer PLI 02 Line Isolation Box

 

 

Good idea. I have some similar boxes at my home studio... Next time I will carry a couple, just in case!

 

Jose

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

Yes, I didn't want to get too technical, but I am a pro electronics repairman (it sounds somewhat presumptuous, but it is what I do for a living 😅) and of course have checked all surrounding components, the power supply, the driver transistors, all capacitors, voltage regulators, power resistors and such.

 

And, when testing it once fixed, it will have several pieces of test equipment attached, from ammeter to voltage meter, temperature meter and such. And will run an stress test of it, while monitoring vital constants 😁

 

I want to be sure it is fixed for good!

 

Although a second and better amp will be bought sooner than later 🥳

 

Jose

 

Excellent!!! And not at all presumptuous, I was a guitar tech for decades in the Central Valley of California. Gear needs fixed!!!! 

[Jose EB5AGV]

This is a bit on the tech side of things 😅, but hope someone finds it interesting and even useful!

 

This is the K1800FX without the speaker grill:

 

 

Because you need to remove the speaker to reach the electronics:

 

 

 

Once separated from the power transformer, here you have the amplifier:

 

 

Now, to put it in perspective... This is my main workbench:

 

 

Here you can see the bottom of the amplifier PCB, labelled as LPA1180:

 

 

And here you have the faulty transistors removed from the circuit:

 

 

The larger ones are shorted. The smaller ones, which are the drivers, test OK but will be also replaced.

 

Sorry if this is of no interest to you! 🙏🏻

 

Jose

[KuruPrionz]

Awesome rig Jose!!!!

I have a work bench for guitars but I'm winding that down and it's not impressive at this point.

Just a few more projects to finish up and it's the end of an era. I just want to play guitars!!!!

Fixing them was great education and my own guitars are set. up to my preferences. It makes a huge difference in what can be played.

Thanks for sharing!

[Jose EB5AGV]

57 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Awesome rig Jose!!!!

I have a work bench for guitars but I'm winding that down and it's not impressive at this point.

Just a few more projects to finish up and it's the end of an era. I just want to play guitars!!!!

Fixing them was great education and my own guitars are set. up to my preferences. It makes a huge difference in what can be played.

Thanks for sharing!

 

BTW, look what I found embedded on the thermal paste of one of the power transistors. If you enlarge it, there is a metal piece close to short two of its pins. That could explain the instant failure it suffered:

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

On 5/16/2023 at 4:46 AM, Jose EB5AGV said:

If you enlarge it, there is a metal piece close to short two of its pins. 

 

 

That almost looks like  an Andersons "powerpole" connector (brand name) as used for connecting ni-cad battery packs to ESC in rc cars

[re Pete]

I remember decades ago playing a place on stage behind the bar. The wiring must of had ground problem. Every time the cash register was used, sound came out of my leslie.

[Jose EB5AGV]

1 hour ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

 

That almost looks like  an Andersons "powerpole" connector (brand name) as used for connecting ni-cad battery packs to ESC in rc cars

 

It was not as big, just a discarded cut pin from another component.

 

Obviously, Behringer has some QC problems, as happens with cold soldering joints.

 

Is a pity, because the amplifier sounds fine. The 12" Bugera woofer has enough punch and the 1" tweeter also has a pretty decent treble on it. If it just kept working! 🤣

 

Jose