Apple announces Logic Pro for iPad

[D. Gauss]

39 minutes ago, ErrkaPetti said:

Hundreds of million people is living in apartments that they don’t own, they pay subscription fee to the real estate company…

 

50 bucks for using Logic Pro on iPad for a whole year, bargain…

If yon can’t afford it, don’t jump on the train and go for the free Garageband… Easy choice…

 

and look at the wonderful, positive reputation landlords have.    

no one "wants" to pay apartment rent, but shelter is a basic life necessity. 

many people "want" to buy a house though if the could.

 

 

 

 

[Docbop]

I prefer to own things and hate subscription anything.     Being old I've gone through tough financial times more than once and owning things made that easier to deal with.   In today subscription world when you're in a tough financial time and you have to stopped all those subscription until on your feet again if going to be even harder.   How you going to keep your skills sharp to find work when most of your tools had to give up the subscriptions to them.    Nope do not like this direction companies are pushing people to life based on how much you can subscribe to every month. 

[Stokely]

I don't really need to think about pros and cons of subscriptions.  My philosophy for anything cheaper than a house or new car (which I tend to drive for 10+ years) is to have the money and buy it free and clear.  You could tell me that it's cheaper overall to subscribe and I still wouldn't be interested.

I'm not going to say I'll NEVER do a subscription, but the thing in question would have to be a must-have, no-alternative type of item.  This doesn't qualify for me.  Hell if Logic Pro on Mac went subscription I'd probably move on to Bitwig or Reaper or something else.  I've changed sequencers/daws a ton over the years, I won't fret doing it again.

[ErrkaPetti]

2 minutes ago, Docbop said:

I prefer to own things and hate subscription anything.     Being old I've gone through tough financial times more than once and owning things made that easier to deal with.   In today subscription world when you're in a tough financial time and you have to stopped all those subscription until on your feet again if going to be even harder.   How you going to keep your skills sharp to find work when most of your tools had to give up the subscriptions to them.    Nope do not like this direction companies are pushing people to life based on how much you can subscribe to every month. 

But, what’s the difference if you had to pay $200 for Logic Pro for iPad?

Certainly in four years from now, Apple will release Logic Pro v12 and that will be another $100 to upgrade…

50 bucks a year for this tremendous super fantastic app to iPad is NOTHING to moan at…

[ErrkaPetti]

1 minute ago, Stokely said:

I don't really need to think about pros and cons of subscriptions.  My philosophy for anything cheaper than a house or new car (which I tend to drive for 10+ years) is to have the money and buy it free and clear.  You could tell me that it's cheaper overall to subscribe and I still wouldn't be interested.

I'm not going to say I'll NEVER do a subscription, but the thing in question would have to be a must-have, no-alternative type of item.  This doesn't qualify for me.  Hell if Logic Pro on Mac went subscription I'd probably move on to Bitwig or Reaper or something else.  I've changed sequencers/daws a ton over the years, I won't fret doing it again.

Apple doesn’t care if you leave the Logic Pro community - there’s alot of new customers coming toward Apple ecosystem, so, yours threats to leave is worth nothing…

[Stokely]

Ok then!

I suspect you are right, as Apple certainly does their marketing homework.  They have done the math and figure the number of people that would sign up for  subscription is more than the people like me. 

That's fine, we move on.

I'm not "threatening" anything, just stating that I'd prefer to work on a platform that I purchased without a subscription.  I've worked on many and am not some fanboy of any of them.  They are tools to get stuff done on.   I don't lease cars so if I wanted to purchase (for example) a Ford but they went to all lease, I'd move on to another company unless that Ford was a must-have item that does things the competition can't do.

[Docbop]

This guy explains the issues I think very well.   

 

 

[Docbop]

12 minutes ago, ErrkaPetti said:

But, what’s the difference if you had to pay $200 for Logic Pro for iPad?

Certainly in four years from now, Apple will release Logic Pro v12 and that will be another $100 to upgrade…

50 bucks a year for this tremendous super fantastic app to iPad is NOTHING to moan at…

 

If I CHOOSE to go to the Logic vXXX   that is my choice to spend more,   I can also stay on what I previously purchased and continue to use that.  If fact I might prefer the older version and want to keep it.    It's my decision not Apple. 

 

I understand why companies like subscriptions they have a guaranteed income flow that make banks and investors happy.   They don't have to worry when or if someone will update or buy again, they have steady cashflow.   That also takes some of the incentive out to keep doing better because they are guaranteed a chunk of your money on a regular basis.   Bottom line I want to control my life as much as possible and not turn over control to corporations and others.   I can think for myself. 

 

 

[CyberGene]

As a software engineer myself (but I’ve only worked for companies, never trying with my own business) I can’t imagine selling software to people and updating it for years with them paying only once. You either sell it for thousands, so that it’s profitable in the long run, or charge for updates. Or offer a subscription model. 
 

Apple sells you a lot of functionality for €200 (the sheer number of included instruments and effects is mind boggling) and updates it all the time and never charges you. Do you think that’s profitable for them on its own? 😉 One must be pretty naive to think so. They use it to “trap” you in their (wonderful and feature rich hardware, software, cloud, AppStore, iTunes, Music, TV, etc) ecosystem. 

But that’s not the norm and you shouldn’t expect for professional software to be sold for €200 and give you a lifetime ticket. 

[Stokely]

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.  If the amount they charge for 11.0 or whatever is too high for me, I'll move on.  If they go to subscription, I'll move on.

I'd be way more inclined to pay for periodic updates than go for subscriptions even if the latter were cheaper.  That is a philosophical thing and has little to do with money.  Others disagree, fine.  Right now I have some worry about Native Instruments moving to subscription (as has been rumored) and that may be a factor in whether I update Komplete or not this summer.

Daws are mostly the same when you get down to it, provided you have a fair number of 3rd party plugins.  Drummer is probably the thing I'd miss most in this hypothetical situation with desktop Logic--that, and having all my old Logic projects that I couldn't open  

[D. Gauss]

charging for updates is completely different than subscriptions.  you choose whether the update warrants the additional cost to you. in the meantime you still have what you purchased and can use it with no problems.  it is my understanding that the IOS app ceases to work if you miss payment.

 

[Docbop]

I go back to Logic when it was $800 or $900 and updates would be around $100 and I paid it.    Then Apple was talking about killing Logic for various reasons cost being one.   Then out of nowhere they dropped the price to $200 and added tons of features and etc.  That threw a lot of people trying to figure out why, but hey they want to make a drastic price cut we'll take it of course.    My feeling is they finally realized Logic was a pain from the developer side (from stories I heard), but Logic generated a lot of Apple computer sale especially for the old Mac Pros.   So Logic was a loss leader to drive hardware sales.   But economy is getting tight and Apple is getting more into subscriptions for that guaranteed monthly cash flow lets see if this flies with our Pro apps.   

[CyberGene]

1 hour ago, D. Gauss said:

charging for updates is completely different than subscriptions.  you choose whether the update warrants the additional cost to you. in the meantime you still have what you purchased and can use it with no problems.  it is my understanding that the IOS app ceases to work if you miss payment.

That’s a fair point. OTOH, the subscription is pretty cheap to start with, you can basically access the entire full app for €5 for an entire month. You can then cancel. And after a year you can pay another month and open/edit your project and use the newest version of the app. Paying only €10 in total up to that point. It’s not all black or white. 

[Nievski]

I think the better way is for companies is to offer both a subscription and one-time purchase path for their software. Give the customers the choice; the companies win either way. For example, Logic Pro 11 - offer a one-time purchase of US$300 with free updates until the next version comes out - then charge to upgrade to Logic Pro 12. This way people can lock-in / own a specific version that's compatible with past/archived projects. They can have the peace of mind that they have a working setup that they can keep into the future, with the option to upgrade. At the same time, users who just want the newest updates can use the subscription model. It's a win-win for everyone. 

[Stokely]

Someone in the music plugin scene (or daw) is doing exactly that, I can't remember the product right now.

 

[yannis D]

16 hours ago, ErrkaPetti said:

Hundreds of million people is living in apartments that they don’t own, they pay subscription fee to the real estate company…

 

50 bucks for using Logic Pro on iPad for a whole year, bargain…

If yon can’t afford it, don’t jump on the train and go for the free Garageband… Easy choice

You don't get my point here: I will use MS in my Mac and Camelot in my ipad. The ones I've payed once and for good. I don't care for freebies.

 

Hundreds of millions pay for rent because they have no other alternative - we have.

 

[cphollis]

A couple of thoughts?

- as I am already a user of Logic Pro on Mac, why would I want the iPad version?  Ok, the touch interface would be nice vs. mousing to everything or keyboard shortcuts, but what else?

- if I didn't already have Logic Pro, I would find $50/yr subscription quite reasonable given the level of functionality, ecosystem, etc.

- I just picked up a 10th gen iPad 256GB for ~$500 at Costco.  Has a real USB C port.  Nice piece of hardware if you're upgrading.

- I might give it a try for my next big project

[ElmerJFudd]

Pricing Logic Pro hardware… assuming in 2023 an M2 with 16gb RAM and 512gb storage is a wise starting point since going inside and upgrading is not an option.  
 

M1 Max Mac Studio 10/24 - 32gb (base) $1999

 

M2 13” MacBook Pro 8/10 - $1699

 

M1 iMac 24” 8/7 - $1699 (no M2 model yet)

 

MacBook Air M2 8/8 - $1599

 

M2 11” iPad Pro 8/10 - 16gb/1tb (required pairing for 16gb RAM) $1499 

 

M2 11” iPad Pro 8/10 - 512gb/8gb (dropping 1tb also drops RAM to 8gb) $1099

 

M2 Mac Mini 8/10 - $999

 

I believe the M2 in iPads may be slightly modified to prioritize running on battery.  So not exactly Apples to Apples yet, but neither is iOS quite macOS or Logic for iOS quite Logic for macOS.  

 

[D. Gauss]

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

That’s a fair point. OTOH, the subscription is pretty cheap to start with, you can basically access the entire full app for €5 for an entire month. You can then cancel. And after a year you can pay another month and open/edit your project and use the newest version of the app.  

 

i prefer my recording project to open in the exact same version of the app that i created it on.  been burned too many times where something has changed with the updated program and it doesn't open exactly the same, or it changes some settings and messes something else up. 

   for example, my studio PC never goes online. ever.  once i get everything installed, tweaked and playing nice with each other, it's bye bye interweb connection until i get a new PC.  I've saved all my old studio computers and if need be (i.e. a client wants to revisit a 15 year old record for some reason), i can do it.  i'm able to open a project that was created in windoze XP, that is full of outdated software, and in many cases uses plugins you can't find anymore, or won't even install on newer machines. (Camel audio anyone?)

[DeltaJockey]

2 hours ago, Nievski said:

I think the better way is for companies is to offer both a subscription and one-time purchase path for their software. Give the customers the choice; the companies win either way. For example, Logic Pro 11 - offer a one-time purchase of US$300 with free updates until the next version comes out - then charge to upgrade to Logic Pro 12. This way people can lock-in / own a specific version that's compatible with past/archived projects. They can have the peace of mind that they have a working setup that they can keep into the future, with the option to upgrade. At the same time, users who just want the newest updates can use the subscription model. It's a win-win for everyone. 

That's the way Native Instruments do it. They brought out a subscription model a couple of years ago, and their was a big uproar. They assured everyone that the subscription was an addition, to give less cashed up people access to software, and that the fully paid product was not going anywhere. Let's hope they stick to their word.

 

I don't create music for an income. I too am subscription averse. I bought Logic Pro many years ago for other than the agreeable workflow to me, because of the fact that I had access to all the updates, and more importantly you could install it on any new Mac. That's the whole thing which swayed me. I have a paid copy of Reaper, as a backup. So if Logic ever went totally subscription, I would dump it and just use Reaper, and spent countless hours transcribing my music across I suppose 😬

 

One problem I have with subscription, particularly for other plugins/software, is that I tend to only use stuff occasionally and  sporadically, I can't bear the thought of paying for something just to have the privilege of pulling it out of the virtual cupboard on rare occasion. But I Iike having it there when I need it.

 

 

[TommyRude]

I get why some folks are upset about subscriptions.  I have a somewhat similar pet peeve.  For years and years, I got used to having the Domino's coupons.  The I moved to a new neighborhood, and the local Domino's didn't honor any of the coupons. 

 

Gawd*** that pissed me off!  So much so that I contacted Domino's corporate and lodged a thoroughly worded complaint, replete with examples on why this was such a bad thing for the brand.

[Dockeys]

13 hours ago, Nievski said:

I think the better way is for companies is to offer both a subscription and one-time purchase path for their software. Give the customers the choice; the companies win either way. For example, Logic Pro 11 - offer a one-time purchase of US$300 with free updates until the next version comes out - then charge to upgrade to Logic Pro 12. This way people can lock-in / own a specific version that's compatible with past/archived projects. They can have the peace of mind that they have a working setup that they can keep into the future, with the option to upgrade. At the same time, users who just want the newest updates can use the subscription model. It's a win-win for everyone. 

agreed. Sibelius do this. I recently bought the “lifetime” (whatever that actually means…..my life or theirs?) one off payment rather than the subscription. It cost roughly what I bought a previous version for many years ago. I also had the money to hand at the time. I like to be given a choice, not just subscribe or don’t. I think that kind of option is limiting. 

[DeltaJockey]

Thinking about it, I'm wondering whether this will be Apple's version of choice. Maybe, the Mac OS version will always be purchase, and the iOS version will always be subscription? Given that the Mac version is more the studio tied down version. Perhaps they will release an iOS Mainstage, aimed at the gigging iOS folk which will be purchase. Just a thought, trying to put the pieces together 😁

[ElmerJFudd]

18 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

 

and look at the wonderful, positive reputation landlords have.    

no one "wants" to pay apartment rent, but shelter is a basic life necessity. 

many people "want" to buy a house though if the could.

 

 

 

 

Most home “owners” don’t own their house either.  If they can pay it off before they’re 60+ they’re doing great! 
 

Perhaps software might consider a rent to own model.  

[Al Quinn]

I would consider buying it, but if it’s subscription only I’ll pass. Doesn’t seem like a good approach for Apple since they won’t get my $$. I guess it’s a business calculation that’s worked out well overall for some. We’ll see how it goes.
 

If I’m remembering correctly Dorico for iPad tried a subscription only approach but caved to customer demand and decided to offer it for purchase. I bought it.

[AnotherScott]

I would want a subscription-based Logic to have some more limited functionality that would always work. The idea above of just paying $5 for the month when you have a project you want to work on can be appealing (as opposed to a $200 purchase for something you may rarely actually use), but it could be irritating to not have "casual" access at other times, e.g. if you just wanted to check to see what was used/done in a particular project, or try something small to see if the app is actually the best tool (of your options at hand) for what you want to do. So I'd be happier with the idea if it could operate in such a "demo mode" when you didn't have a subscription, e.g. it could introduce a second of static every 15 seconds, not permit saving, etc., so you could still have some access for something you wanted to check out without having to pay every time you wanted to open/check something on a whim. I wonder if there's any chance it would work that way?

[ElmerJFudd]

4 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I would want a subscription-based Logic to have some more limited functionality that would always work. The idea above of just paying $5 for the month when you have a project you want to work on can be appealing (as opposed to a $200 purchase for something you may rarely actually use), but it could be irritating to not have "casual" access at other times, e.g. if you just wanted to check to see what was used/done in a particular project, or try something small to see if the app is actually the best tool (of your options at hand) for what you want to do. So I'd be happier with idea if it could operate in such a "demo mode" when you didn't have a subscription, e.g. it could introduce a seconds of static every 15 seconds, not permit saving, etc., so you could still have some access for something you wanted to check out without having to pay every time you wanted to open/check something on a whim. I wonder if there's any chance it would work that way?

The subscription should include cloud storage, a collaboration scheme, and a steady stream of content development (instruments, loops, patches - which Apple typically does already, but perhaps dropping things more regularly).  

[Paul Woodward]

Had no interest but a chance opportunity today and I now have a M2 iPad Pro. That has me wondering how Logic will run on it….hmmmmm

[Docbop]

The thing that is going to be interesting to find out the details on is what was mentioned in that YouTube I posted.   He said Apple is putting a limit/restriction on what that can be transfer back and forth between Logic on a computer and Logic on the iPad.     He said something about a Logic computer project can be exported to Logic iPad, but not back.    From the technical side I kind of understand that, but from a customer POV that really kills having your studio setup and a traveling setup to work away from the studio.  Can also see using the Logic iPad to start a project then Logic computer to finish it.    

 

So going to be interesting to see how people react to it once it getting in peoples hands for a few weeks. 

[Stokely]

Hmm, most definitely I'd have a use case for what you just mentioned:  live show recordings.  Our mixer won't let you simply connect up a hard drive, you need a computer.  Assuming it could connect to an ipad instead of a computer, that would be ideal (I already bring out my ipad but dislike having to find a spot for a laptop).   I'd then take the project and get it somehow over to my mac at home.  Whether or not the band wants me recording more shows, there's another matter  

Other than that, not sure I see any advantage over just bringing my laptop where I need Logic.