32-bit floating point interface with 4 channel dac for two input channels by Zoom

[ElmerJFudd]

$199.99 interface from Zoom UAC-232

An 832 is on the way.  
https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/news/zoom-introduces-32-bit-float-audio-interfaces/

 

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

Thanks for sharing!

 

OK, progress. I think I'll wait, this will get better and competitors will step up as well. 😋

[Anderton]

Very interesting. It reminds me of the (IIRC) Sony recorders that had a "safe" mode when recording mono. It sent the same mono signal to the left and right channels, but one was like -10 dB lower or something like that. The reasoning was that if the main channel went over, you had undistorted audio in the other channel you could use. The idea of applying that to A/D converters is certainly novel. 

 

[KuruPrionz]

8 minutes ago, Anderton said:

Very interesting. It reminds me of the (IIRC) Sony recorders that had a "safe" mode when recording mono. It sent the same mono signal to the left and right channels, but one was like -10 dB lower or something like that. The reasoning was that if the main channel went over, you had undistorted audio in the other channel you could use. The idea of applying that to A/D converters is certainly novel. 

 

Tascam DR 40 can do that too. 4 channels so 2 stereo tracks with one -6db to the other one, up to 24 bit 96 khz. 

I never used it but it's a good trick. So obviously, Zoom isn't quite the first to come up with something along these lines. 

 

And, isn't it 32 bit, not 32 gb?

[spokenward]

13 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Tascam DR 40 can do that too. 4 channels so 2 stereo tracks with one -6db to the other one, up to 24 bit 96 khz. 

I never used it but it's a good trick. So obviously, Zoom isn't quite the first to come up with something along these lines. 

 

And, isn't it 32 bit, not 32 gb?

 

Yes, agreed 32 bit, but it is more ambitious and more powerful than the "one up - one down" approach of earlier field recorders. Julian Krause did a video 3 years ago on another Zoom 32 bit no-levels device. https://youtu.be/NTuJ1fk3PsY that he refers to but did not link.

 

 

In the new video he is just speculating from the topology that the 4 channel DACs are mediated by an ARM controller chip and splitting high level signal and low level signal. That's a lot more powerful than the safety recording approach, even though the metaphor is similar. Here's the bit at (03:14).

 

 

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

7 minutes ago, spokenward said:

 

Yes, agreed 32 bit, but it is more ambitious and more powerful than the "one up - one down" approach of earlier field recorders. Julian Krause did a video 3 years ago on another Zoom 32 bit no-levels device. https://youtu.be/NTuJ1fk3PsY that he refers to but did not link.

 

 

In the new video he is just speculating from the topology that the 4 channel DACs are mediated by an ARM controller chip and splitting high level signal and low level signal. That's a lot more powerful than the safety recording approach, even though the metaphor is similar. Here's the bit at (03:14).

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I don't doubt the progress made by Zoom compared to previous attempts to prevent clipping. 

I also don't doubt that other major players will dive in and the world of home studio recording will never be the same again.

For now, I'll keep using my SSL 2+ and wait for this concept to be more fully developed and competition to arrive. 🙂

[spokenward]

40 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Thanks, I don't doubt the progress made by Zoom compared to previous attempts to prevent clipping. 

I also don't doubt that other major players will dive in and the world of home studio recording will never be the same again.

For now, I'll keep using my SSL 2+ and wait for this concept to be more fully developed and competition to arrive. 🙂

Like everything in audio there will be controversies along the way and I don't think that this a one-way path beyond 24 bit.  In the video he documents a notable dip in the response that is at an impossibly low level. Somebody will figure out what that sounds like. The application of this 32 bit tech though is valuable for the film and video people who don't get a callback if there is an unfixable problem with the audio. I see it as being valuable, but the value is more apparent to markets other than the home studio. Our duty is to please our ears and not to explain to dozens of people that they can't go home yet because the sound guy needs another take. Or the video and streaming audio that was live-mixed with fubared channels and can't be cleaned up for broadcast or upload.

[KuruPrionz]

3 minutes ago, spokenward said:

Like everything in audio there will be controversies along the way and I don't think that this a one-way path beyond 24 bit.  In the video he documents a notable dip in the response that is at an impossibly low level. Somebody will figure out what that sounds like. The application of this 32 bit tech though is valuable for the film and video people who don't get a callback if there is an unfixable problem with the audio. I see it as being valuable, but the value is more apparent to markets other than the home studio. Our duty is to please our ears and not to explain to dozens of people that they can't go home yet because the sound guy needs another take. Or the video and streaming audio that was live-mixed with fubared channels and can't be cleaned up for broadcast or upload.

Progress like this ends up heading in multiple directions, some of them may be unexpected. 

Time will tell. I'm doing fine with what I have now, more important to me are instruments, good microphones and speakers. 

Everybody has their favorites and their reasons, all are valid if they make the owner happy. 

[Anderton]

My "never clip again" moment was when converters went from 12- or 16-bit to 24-bit, and I could leave 12 dB or more of headroom and not pay a penalty in sound quality.

[Anderton]

On 4/27/2023 at 10:23 PM, KuruPrionz said:

And, isn't it 32 bit, not 32 gb?

 

Yes! I fixed the title.

[Nathanael_I]

On 4/27/2023 at 8:23 PM, KuruPrionz said:

Tascam DR 40 can do that too. 4 channels so 2 stereo tracks with one -6db to the other one, up to 24 bit 96 khz. 

I never used it but it's a good trick. So obviously, Zoom isn't quite the first to come up with something along these lines. 

 

And, isn't it 32 bit, not 32 gb?

Not even close to first. This started in the professional field recorders used by the movie industry. And the purpose is eliminating “overs” in dialog or field audio. It came down into the $1000 recorders a year or two ago.  There’s no reason it won’t go everywhere. 24bit doesn’t take up 32 or 64 bits that modern CPUs use, so it’s not really any more burden to process and storage is cheap. All the dynamic range stuff can be ignored. But, this is also how some of the new digital mics without gain control work …..  slap an ADC on with greater range than the capsule - now you can capture anything the mic can do without distortion.   
 

Recording and DAWs will get simpler for most users. There’s no reason for everyone to struggle with products designed for niche, albeit professional and profitable, uses.  The average musician has little need for the advanced features used on dubbing stages for 800 track movie scores. 

[KuruPrionz]

6 minutes ago, Nathanael_I said:

Not even close to first. This started in the professional field recorders used by the movie industry.

True, and I never said the Tascam was first. It just happens that I have one and it does proceed the Zoom by quite a few years so I mentioned it. 

I'm pretty happy with my current DAW, interface and mics so I can wait while this works it's way down the food chain. Cheers, Kuru

[ElmerJFudd]

As a side note - delivery format for streaming platforms - Apple Music, Spotify, Amazon Music - what are producers currently providing them?  Still 16bit 44.1k wav? 

[Anderton]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

As a side note - delivery format for streaming platforms - Apple Music, Spotify, Amazon Music - what are producers currently providing them?  Still 16bit 44.1k wav? 

 

Most services accept 24-bit files and sample rates above 44.1 kHz, but the requirements vary with different companies. For example Spotify will accept 192 kHz files IIRC. The only major service I know that's still locked in to 16-bit/44.1 kHz is CD Baby, because the person submitting the material might want it to end up on CD.

 

This is still a murky area because most services will downshift whatever you send them to a compressed file format. Some people say that if a service accepts 96 kHz files, but they play back at 44.1 kHz, you're better off sending them 44. 1 kHz files that used your sample rate converter to downshift from 96 kHz instead of whatever they used.