Nashville Tuning

[Old Music Guy]

I strung up a Strat tonight, Nashville style. Notwithstanding I put a .013 on the G (should have used a 10 or 11), I am absolutely blown away by the sound. Anyone else done this? What are your thoughts?

[CEB]

Yes. It’s a go to for laying down acoustic rhythm tracks. 

[KuruPrionz]

I found a short scale Johnson Strat knock off at Goodwill for 30 bucks in excellent condition. 22.5" scale. 

I've had Nashville tuned guitars in the past but I LOVE this one. 

I used the octave strings at the same gauge as a 12 string. What's great about it is that the six saddle bridge allows me to get it correctly intonated for Nashville tuning. 

And, as much as I mostly dislike having 3 pickups and a 5 way switch, it's great for Nashville. tuning. I usually run the neck and middle pickups. 

 

Because it's fully intonated, I can capo it too and add another track. For that trick I like to do the open part with the bridge and middle pickup and the capoed part with the neck and middle so they have a little different tone as well as play different notes. 

 

What I find interesting is that it blends well with either electric or acoustic guitar and doesn't impose an electric sound on either of them . 

 

You probably want a .009 for the octave G string. Pretty tight with a thicker gauge. 

[Old Music Guy]

Great feedback. For all those reasons is why I wanted to try it out. I agree with you @KuruPrionz about the .009. I've also heard that short scales are preferable. Not exactly sure why, but if you can enlighten me?

 

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, Old Music Guy said:

Great feedback. For all those reasons is why I wanted to try it out. I agree with you @KuruPrionz about the .009. I've also heard that short scales are preferable. Not exactly sure why, but if you can enlighten me?

 

Shorter scale will reduce the tension on the strings and you won't break them as often. Simple but true. 

[Old Music Guy]

5 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Shorter scale will reduce the tension on the strings and you won't break them as often. Simple but true. 

Understood. But I really won't spend $700 for a short scale neck. I can buy a boatload of stings for that $$$. 

[KuruPrionz]

3 minutes ago, Old Music Guy said:

Understood. But I really won't spend $700 for a short scale neck. I can buy a boatload of stings for that $$$. 

As I mentioned above, I bought a short scale Johnson Strat for $30 used. It even has passive EMG pickups in it. $700 is a fantasy.

[Mark Schmieder]

I'm not as convinced I need an electric guitar in Nashville tuning as my Gretsch 12-string is so easy to play and can be tuned to regular pitch, but here's what I picked out for the job should I go down that road once I am out of my current financial hole:

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/STK59T--danelectro-stock-59-turquoise

 

For acoustic, I recently had a Taylor GS Mini set up for Nashville tuning. I had bought two other acoustic guitars before that one, that were supposed to be for that purpose, but liked them so much as they were that I wasn't willing to sacrifice them! To this day, I remain in a quandry regarding allocating a guitar for Celtic tuning.

 

Strats and Telecasters should make nice Nashville guitars (just ask Keith Richards!). Really, any single-coil guitar is a good match.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Why yes I have done that before, and it is a lot of fun and a great sound! Even with only the 3rd/G swapped and up an octave.

[Old Music Guy]

23 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

As I mentioned above, I bought a short scale Johnson Strat for $30 used. It even has passive EMG pickups in it. $700 is a fantasy.

I just don't have the time or inclination to go searching for another guitar that only suits one purpose. Besides, if I buy another guitar, I will be out on the street. I was jamming tonight with a buddy, and it sounds just great on my cheapo Strat (actually, not that cheap) ☹️

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, Old Music Guy said:

I just don't have the time or inclination to go searching for another guitar that only suits one purpose. Besides, if I buy another guitar, I will be out on the street. I was jamming tonight with a buddy, and it sounds just great on my cheapo Strat (actually, not that cheap) ☹️

I'm only telling you what I did and why I think a "$700 short scale neck" is not a real world concept. 

What you do and how you go about it is entirely up to you. 

[Old Music Guy]

18 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

I'm only telling you what I did and why I think a "$700 short scale neck" is not a real world concept. 

What you do and how you go about it is entirely up to you.

I completely understood your comment, and appreciate your answer. Sorry if I came off snarky. It was not my intent. 

[KuruPrionz]

3 minutes ago, Old Music Guy said:

I completely understood your comment, and appreciate your answer. Sorry if I came off snarky. It was not my intent. 

No worries, we all have out moments!

[Old Music Guy]

I just copped a Squire Mini with a 22.5" scale on Goodwill for $58.00. BUT shipping is $28.00!!!!!!!!!!!!! SMH. Such a deal. 

Damn thing weight 8 pounds? That doesn't sound like pine.

We'll see. It's likely to take a month of so to get here. 

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

29 minutes ago, Old Music Guy said:

I just copped a Squire Mini with a 22.5" scale on Goodwill for $58.00. BUT shipping is $28.00!!!!!!!!!!!!! SMH. Such a deal. 

Damn thing weight 8 pounds? That doesn't sound like pine.

We'll see. It's likely to take a month of so to get here. 

 

 

In the long run, it's a good price for that. One of the things I love about using a short scale Strat is that you can fully intonate each string and that means you can play up the neck or use a capo and both of those are fun. Most acoustic Nashville guitars that I've owned or played started sounding a little off by the 5th fret. 

[Caevan O’Shite]

10 hours ago, Old Music Guy said:

I just copped a Squire Mini with a 22.5" scale on Goodwill for $58.00.

That IS a short scale-length, very short! I can see where that would make an excellent guitar for the Nashville Tuning and stringing.

With that short of a scale-length, I'd suggest using the same or similar string-gauges as the Octave and Unison strings in an acoustic 12-String set, maybe even those in a "Medium" acoustic 12-String set; but, of course, NOT acoustic strings, but electric.

Though if you want a looser, lighter feel, maybe putting together a set like:

.010" -  .013" -  .009" - .011" - .017" - .026"(wound),  would do you well.

On the one hand, the round-core, solid/pure-nickel wrap strings that I generally prefer (DR Pure Blues, Thomastik-Infeld BeBop) would sound nice and warm, dovetailing with that short-scale to sound very fat and round and kinda-sorta 'Gibson-y'.

But on the other hand, maybe the more regular hex-core, nickel-plated steel wrapped wound-strings, as usually found in a lot of D'Addario, Ernie Ball, GHS, etc. etc. sets, would suit your Nashville-Strung mini-Strat for a jangly, bright, zingy sort of sound. I may be coming to the same conclusion for an Electric 12-String that I found, in spite of my long time love of the DR PB's and T-I BB's on almost everything else.


Ages and ages ago I had a Peavey T-15, which had a 23-1/2" scale-length, plenty short but as short as yours! I thought it was really cool that it was the same scale-length as a strange custom-made headless guitar that David Gilmour had, that he toured with on his About Face solo-album tour.

I found that the strings could get pretty loose and floppy, and that it was too easy for the 6th/Low-E string to buzz on the frets; so I wound up trying a set of 11's on it, and that was the cure for that guitar- and the beginning of my preferring 11's on most electric guitars, as well!

[KuruPrionz]

2 hours ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

.010" -  .013" -  .009" - .011" - .017" - .026"(wound),  would do you well.
But on the other hand, maybe the more regular hex-core, nickel-plated steel wrapped wound-strings, as usually found in a lot of D'Addario, Ernie Ball, GHS, etc. etc. sets, would suit your Nashville-Strung mini-Strat for a jangly, bright, zingy sort of sound. 

Exactly what I am using and it does work well. The strings have a nice tension on them, not floppy at all. The guitar sounds chimey, Nashville tuning is a decorator extra. I love it but a little goes a long way. 

[Caevan O’Shite]

11 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Nashville tuning is a decorator extra. I love it but a little goes a long way.

I'm finding that to be the case with a cheap 12-String that I picked up not too long ago, that I've dubbed "The Twelviecaster". It's surprisingly nice, it plays and intonates better than the two late-model Danelectro electric-12's that I'd tried and was a Hell of a lot less expensive! It does, however, sorely need better pickups, the stock originals sounding weak, crappy, and VERY noisy- the neck-pickup being so bad on all three offenses that I only use the bridge-pickup, and never the neck or the "middle" position...

I'll probably wind up spending more on new pickups than I did on the guitar itstwelf!    It'd vastly improve the guitar, though, and total cost would still be considerably less than what my upscale choices would be...

Wonktacular shopclass pickguard, but a genuine 12-saddle bridge (not mine, but the same make 'n model and everything):

                                                            

[KuruPrionz]

Project guitar for certain!

I'm debating keeping a Daisy Rock Retro 12 string that I picked up along the way. It's a nice guitar but I'm not bonding with it. Heavy for one thing and I really only use 12 string or Nashville as decorator guitars for recordings. I have a Rainsong 12 string acoustic that sounds and plays amazing, I'd consider gigging with that one. 

The Daisy Rock has the fully intonatable 12 saddle tuneomatic, which is nice. It has 2 mini hum buckers, they are quiet and sound good. Just not sure I need or want it. 

Full size Grovers on the headstock and a short upper horn, it doesn't balance well for me. That said, it plays and sounds really nice. 

Photo is interwebz scavenge, not mine either. 

[Old Music Guy]

This is a shot a Gretsch Electromatic I had, but, sadly sold. I LOVED the electronics. While it didn't have the T.V. Jones pickups, the stocks were still very sweet and articulate. The combination of tone and volume controls plus a Master volume was outstanding. It stayed in tune very nicely, but it was very difficult for me to play. (12 strings have always been a problem for my small hands). 

I really liked @KuruPrionz suggestion of a short scale. Finding a cheapo Squire on Goodwill was a bonus. TY  

As for strings, I currently am using the hex nickles but they seem a little bright (That may be due to the pine body). I usually use DA NYXLs exclusively, but for "test" purposes, I use the cheaper DAs. We'll see what happens when we get there. 

[Caevan O’Shite]

55 minutes ago, Old Music Guy said:

As for strings, I currently am using the hex nickles but they seem a little bright

(1) Swap-out the capacitors that are on the tone-pots for caps with a .0015mf value. This will allow you to roll the tone-controls back just a little and ONLY shave-off the high-treble, leaving the upper-mids and mids intact, warming it up a little without getting muddy. A very, very inexpensive CHEAP modification that will make a usable difference, that's also very easy to do, easily and reversible if need be. This may do all you need along with using your amp and pedal controls!

(2) For the only wound-string in the set, the 6th-string,

.010" -  .013" -  .009" - .011" - .017" - .026"(wound).

shop around, find a seller that will do custom singles or mixed-gauge sets for you (Strings & Beyond has done a great job of that for me before!), and try something like a .026" DR Pure Blues, a GHS Nickel Rocker N26, a Thomastik-Infeld BB26, something warmer, mellower, darker, than most with more of a midrange emphasis.

For the remaining five plain strings, maybe try one or another brand and type of treated or coated strings; they tend to be a little less bright than 'regular' plain-steel strings.

(3) Spend a little time adjusting the heights of the pickups by ear.

[Old Music Guy]

1 hour ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

the tone-pots for caps with a .0015mf value

That's an extremely small cap. I would have to do the math and look at a roll-off plot. 

Agreed though that it's an easy tweak.

[Caevan O’Shite]

31 minutes ago, Old Music Guy said:

That's an extremely small cap. I would have to do the math and look at a roll-off plot. 

Agreed though that it's an easy tweak.

That's the idea; it only affects the high treble, and leaves the upper-mids and mids intact, instead of scooping them out in a deep cutting roll-off. It won't leave it sounding like there's a wet wool blanket over your tone, even though it will roll-off the highs just a little.

It's a great choice for players who otherwise never even touch the tone-knobs. And if you crank your amp (and/or pedals) to the point of being overdriven and a little louder than you intend to play most of the time, and roll your guitar's volume-knob back to clean-up while the tone-knobs are all the way up, it'll sound good- and THEN, roll that volume-knob back up for leads while rolling the tone-knobs back to a 'sweet-spot', that tone-knob voicing with that .0015mf cap will then seem like a mid-boost.

Lindy Fralin calls that value a "magic cap" for tone-controls.

[KuruPrionz]

I used to have an Ovation Deacon solid body 12 string. It was HEAVY, single piece of Honduras mahogany for the body and one for the neck with an ebony 24 fret fretboard and Schaller tuners. No upper horn at all so it didn't balance well. I found a NOS neck from the Ovation auction when they discontinued the USA solid bodies and swapped that into the Deacon. I had a good flip on that one, partly because I could honestly say that nobody had ever played that neck before (I took a photo of the back of the headstock before installing, no screw holes. 

 

I found an Ovation Preacher husk, boogered for a small sum locally. Same scale length. Long term plan is to make that into an electric 12 string. I LOVE the Ovation 12 string necks, they are wide, fairly thick and have ebony fretboards. Still pondering the bridge, the one on the Daisy Rock has me thinking...

[Caevan O’Shite]

1 minute ago, KuruPrionz said:

I used to have an Ovation Deacon solid body 12 string. It was HEAVY, single piece of Honduras mahogany for the body and one for the neck with an ebony 24 fret fretboard and Schaller tuners.

Welcome back to the 1970's, right... ?!  I'm surprised you're not mentioning lots of brass... !  

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, Caevan O’Shite said:

Welcome back to the 1970's, right... ?!  I'm surprised you're not mentioning lots of brass... !  

Every thing was chrome.

 

[KuruPrionz]

3 hours ago, Old Music Guy said:

This is a shot a Gretsch Electromatic I had, but, sadly sold. I LOVED the electronics. While it didn't have the T.V. Jones pickups, the stocks were still very sweet and articulate. The combination of tone and volume controls plus a Master volume was outstanding. It stayed in tune very nicely, but it was very difficult for me to play. (12 strings have always been a problem for my small hands). 

I really liked @KuruPrionz suggestion of a short scale. Finding a cheapo Squire on Goodwill was a bonus. TY  

As for strings, I currently am using the hex nickles but they seem a little bright (That may be due to the pine body). I usually use DA NYXLs exclusively, but for "test" purposes, I use the cheaper DAs. We'll see what happens when we get there. 

NICE!

[Old Music Guy]

5 hours ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

Lindy Fralin calls that value a "magic cap" for tone-controls.

So, I did a little math. (imma gonna get ya for making me do engineering again). 

A 250k pot (full on) with a .0015uF puts the knee @ 400Hz with a 3dB/octave roll off. 

A 125k pot, (R/2) the knee is @ 850Hz more or less with 3dB/octave roll off which makes perfect sense. (half the R = 2x the freq.)

This is going to make me rethink ALL the caps in my Strats. Given that they are all quacky with no warmth...

Damn it all 🥴

 

 

[Old Music Guy]

But yet, again, consideration needs to be given to the DC resistance AND the inductance of the pickups. 

An inductor (PU) in parallel with a resistor (pot) is in and of itself a low pass filter. No cap required. 

While a 7 or 8k pickup, in series with a 250k pot will only move the knee a shade, the inductance of the pup needs to be accounted for. Somehow.

 

[KuruPrionz]

8 minutes ago, Old Music Guy said:

So, I did a little math. (imma gonna get ya for making me do engineering again). 

A 250k pot (full on) with a .0015uF puts the knee @ 400Hz with a 3dB/octave roll off. 

A 125k pot, (R/2) the knee is @ 850Hz more or less with 3dB/octave roll off which makes perfect sense. (half the R = 2x the freq.)

This is going to make me rethink ALL the caps in my Strats. Given that they are all quacky with no warmth...

Damn it all 🥴

 

 

More than one way to skin a cat and more than one cat needs skinnin'. 😉

As a guitar tech, one of the music stores I worked for had the EMG line of active pickups and interesting add-ons.

One customer ordered 3 EMG SA (Strat Alnico) pickups and an SPC (Strat Presence Control) and I did the installation. 

Of course, you really must play something for a bit to make sure everything is working as it should. 

 

Besides being virtually hum free, not requiring a string ground and having very low magnetic drag (better intonation and sustain), they sounded "Stratty" until you cranked the SPC, which boosts the mids and rolls of the trebles just a skoosh. A full, singing tone, great for lead work. 

 

I currently flog a Strat with just the neck and bridge pickup, I prefer the combination of those 2 pickups over anything the middle pickup brings. And an SPC.

I have a Tele with the EMG Tele set and another SPC. Either of those will get me through any gig that comes my way, chime chords and wailing leads. 

 

And I don't do any math!!!! Or roll off the highs with a "tone subtracter knob". 😇

You don't want to do it to a vintage guitar and my live is easier because I just used a Forstner bit and a drill press to make a compartment on the back of the guitar to swap out the battery. If you remember to unplug when you are not playing your batteries should last a year or more, mine do and that includes years where I had over 100 gigs.