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Hammond Tease XK-4


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4 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

Does an XK4 sound that much different than an SKPro?  Maybe the leslie, but I think most of us have invested in Vent's so how much different is an SKPro/Vent than an XK4?  Probably not much.

 

I'd still like to see B3x in hardware or at least the leslie sim in hardware.  That I'd invest in.

Based on videos only of the xk4, I don't hear a major jump up from b3x to the xk4. So it seems that you're paying $2500 for a waterfall keybed with (3?) multi contacts. I'm not saying it's not worth it if you can justify it for yourself.  Although I'd be worried that there will be an xk4c next year.

FunMachine.

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25 minutes ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

Based on videos only of the xk4, I don't hear a major jump up from b3x to the xk4. So it seems that you're paying $2500 for a waterfall keybed with (3?) multi contacts. I'm not saying it's not worth it if you can justify it for yourself.  Although I'd be worried that there will be an xk4c next year.

Why is everyone always worrying about what will be next year? I say go with what you like and make it work. That is like waiting for the next iPad or iPhone - you will never get the latest because things change too fast. It took me a long time to accept this approach, but it works. If I thought an XK4 was for me, I would get it now. Who knows about tomorrow?

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2 hours ago, b3plyr said:

Why is everyone always worrying about what will be next year? I say go with what you like and make it work. That is like waiting for the next iPad or iPhone - you will never get the latest because things change too fast. It took me a long time to accept this approach, but it works. If I thought an XK4 was for me, I would get it now. Who knows about tomorrow?

My Mojo 61 still sounds (and probably feels) better… and it has excellent AP, EP, Clav, and Vox sounds for half the price. Oh, but it does not have the “Hammond” name that Suzuki paid good money for. If the name is so important, have at it! 

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'55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D

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18 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

Based on videos only of the xk4, I don't hear a major jump up from b3x to the xk4.

 

I think the XK4 organ should be compared more to whether it's an improvement from SK Pro, it's an evolution of that tech. How competitive SK Pro is with B3X is, itself, probably open to debate. B-3X at least doesn't have the simulated multi-contact trigger, and sometimes people seem to have trouble getting it to play well with others, if you don't want to dedicate the iPad to running that as the only sound app.

 

18 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

So it seems that you're paying $2500 for a waterfall keybed with (3?) multi contacts.

 

There are only 2 physical contacts in it (the XK5 has the three). And yeah, if you want to run B3X, there's no reason to buy this keyboard. A Numa Organ 2 would be just as good. In fact, if you're looking for a B3X controller, SK Pro (and presumably XK4) are particularly bad choices, because their percussion and CV controls don't send MIDI CC, and B3X doesn't recognize them (IK has never updated their Hammond model compatibility since the initial release). You'd have to use another app in between (or some other device) to get around that. At least the SK Pro gives you other benefits that may make the trouble worthwhile, but since this one is just an organ, there's really no point to using it as a B3X controller, its appeal is as a self-contained instrument.

 

18 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

I'm not saying it's not worth it if you can justify it for yourself.  Although I'd be worried that there will be an xk4c next year.

 

XK1c was an SK1 without extra sounds. XK4 is essentially an SK Pro without extra sounds, albeit with some enhancements of its own. So I don't know how much they could take out to make some version that was further stripped down. I think this is, for all intents and purposes, the updated XK1c.

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I don't really think the XK-4 is targeted at owners of a SK-Pro wanting to "upgrade", like the XK-1c wasn't targeted at owners of the SK1.

I think its market will be pure hammond players who want the latest and greatest emulation, and DON'T already own any other Hammond board.

 

Sure it's an expensive board for a very niche market segment, but hey it's half the price of a XK-5 or Legend Soul!

🤪

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1 hour ago, Spider76 said:

I don't really think the XK-4 is targeted at owners of a SK-Pro wanting to "upgrade", like the XK-1c wasn't targeted at owners of the SK1.

I think its market will be pure hammond players who want the latest and greatest emulation, and DON'T already own any other Hammond board.

 

Sure it's an expensive board for a very niche market segment, but hey it's half the price of a XK-5 or Legend Soul!

🤪

 

In EU it's not half the price of the Legend Soul 261, well maybe it is close to half the price after shipping and taxes of that beast but at least you get 2 manuals,

many more drawbars, effects, variety sounds for the Bass part.. and 9 contact keyboard which according to reviews feels way better than the old legend

 

I mean.. it's either the XK-4 had 73 version or variety sound presets like the Mojo, for that price. It doesn't need a virtual synth engine etc.

I'm in the market for such as keyboard! with the exceptions that 61 keys is too cramped, and... what happens when I need to use a Piano or EP sound during a gig? I'm toast

I do mostly small gigs and no roadies so I'd not wanna bring 2 keyboards ever

 

It is definitely a better value than the XK-5 single manual, for sure. Need to compare the sound between the two though to be extra sure

 

Catch me on YouTube for 200 IQ piano covers, musical trivia quizzes, tutorials, reviews and other fun stuff...

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2 hours ago, Chummy said:

 

In EU it's not half the price of the Legend Soul 261

...

I mean.. it's either the XK-4 had 73 version or variety sound presets like the Mojo, for that price. It doesn't need a virtual synth engine etc.

I'm in the market for such as keyboard!

 

Yes I was half joking with my "half the price" comment, but I meant that the HK-4 should be compared to the other top-level, organ-only keyboards.

 

If you compare it to the Mojo or Sk or other multi-purpose boards, you are indeed not "in the market for such a keyboard!" ;) but for something like the Nord Electro/Stage, Yamaha CP/CK/YC, or the aforementioned Mojo61 and Hammond SK.

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3 hours ago, Chummy said:

I mean.. it's either the XK-4 had 73 version or variety sound presets like the Mojo, for that price. It doesn't need a virtual synth engine etc.

I'm in the market for such as keyboard! with the exceptions that 61 keys is too cramped, and... what happens when I need to use a Piano or EP sound during a gig? I'm toast

I do mostly small gigs and no roadies so I'd not wanna bring 2 keyboards ever

 

If that is what you need, just do what I do for small gigs. Use an MODX7 (73 note synth/controller) and an iPad running Korg Module and B3X. Super light weight, quick and easy to setup and strike, and covers every sound you can imagine. 

'55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D

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45 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

If that is what you need, just do what I do for small gigs. Use an MODX7 (73 note synth/controller) and an iPad running Korg Module and B3X. Super light weight, quick and easy to setup and strike, and covers every sound you can imagine. 

 

Or to step up to 9 drawbar controls and a generally better internal organ sound when not connecting an iPad... Kurzweil PC4-7, Vox Continental 73 (if you can still find one), and Numa Compact 2X are 73+ key boards with at least reasonably organ-friendly actions, 9 drawbar-equivalent controls, built-in organ engines (albeit not of Hammond/B3X/Mojo quality), good variety of sounds for at least the most needed basics, and all cheaper and lighter than XK4. Almost as light, you could add the Roland VR-730 to that list. They're not going to give you the organ/leslie quality and/or customizability of the XK4, or the multi-contact simulation, but you can't have everything. 😉(Kurzweil or Numa would be the best B3X controllers of the bunch... e.g. others lack buttons for percussion/CV or require an additional step of sysex-to-CC conversion to run something like B3X. But alas, the others have the waterfall actions!)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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2 hours ago, HammondDave said:

If that is what you need, just do what I do for small gigs. Use an MODX7 (73 note synth/controller) and an iPad running Korg Module and B3X. Super light weight, quick and easy to setup and strike, and covers every sound you can imagine. 

 

Sounds very convenient no doubt, but I like to gig with self contained boards (that's just me)

and the action of the MODX is bad for me, I'm a very demanding player.

I do think the YC73 is what I need but I'm reluctant because some users reported it's not as great as they expected

It has come down to Anotherscott now deciding to sell it, meaning it's probably even worse than I thought.

Now, I know that it's all personal yada yada, and trying out in a music store for a couple precious minutes, when it's very noisy..

In the past I bought boards that I thought "cool" when I first tried them at the store but didn't like them from very early on (e.g Roland VR-09, FA-06, Korg MS-20)

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I would love to try out a YC73 to see if the balanced hammer action would work for me, but the stores around here carry very little these days.

I do find the Modx7 works pretty well for organ with it's light shallow action.  Probably the thing it works best for honestly!  Like you I prefer self-contained though.  The Modx is going to be my "really iffy weather gig" keyboard moving forward.

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Do any of the Hammond clonewheels prior to this XK-4 have a real power supply instead of a wall wart adapter? Seems so un-roadworthy. Never understood that.

Roland RD-2000, Yamaha Motif XF7, Mojo 61, Invisible keyboard stand (!!!!!), 1939 Martin Handcraft Imperial trumpet

"Everyone knows rock music attained perfection in 1974. It is a scientific fact." -- Homer Simpson

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13 minutes ago, kpl1228 said:

Do any of the Hammond clonewheels have a real power supply instead of a wall wart adapter? Seems so un-roadworthy. Never understood that.

My SK Pro 73 does - standard iec connector.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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40 minutes ago, Chummy said:

the action of the MODX is bad for me, I'm a very demanding player.

I do think the YC73 is what I need but I'm reluctant because some users reported it's not as great as they expected

If you're particular about action, and organ is your primary focus, the MODX7 action is better than the YC73 action. The YC73 is better for organ than most hammer actions are, but still not as good as a non-hammer action.

 

40 minutes ago, Chummy said:

It has come down to Anotherscott now deciding to sell it, meaning it's probably even worse than I thought.

I like the YC73 a lot, I just think it probably isn't best for my particular priorities at the moment (though I've still gone back and forth about selling it). The sounds are strong, though I could wish for a little better Wurli in a bottom board. Its organ is better than any other board I'm currently choosing for being part of a pair (and the MIDI capabilities easily allow me to play those organs from my other action, if I prefer). But my focus at the moment is mostly on the total dual-board rig ergonomics, which includes things like how close I can keep the top and bottom keys to each other, the patch selection facilities, the feel, the travel weight, the controls available for external sounds, the amount of free surface space for a tablet/module... all things that don't even have anything to do with the sounds! And nothing fits my preferences perfectly. But some of the boards I'm considering are, in many ways, not as good as the YC73. IOW, some of what I might end up choosing over the YC73 would almost certainly be the wrong choice for almost anyone else. 😉

 

Just now, kpl1228 said:

Do any of the Hammond clonewheels have a real power supply instead of a wall wart adapter? Seems so un-roadworthy. Never understood that.

 

SK Pro, SKX Pro, XK5, and XK4, at least.
 

 

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Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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10 hours ago, Spider76 said:

I don't really think the XK-4 is targeted at owners of a SK-Pro wanting to "upgrade", like the XK-1c wasn't targeted at owners of the SK1.

I think its market will be pure hammond players who want the latest and greatest emulation, and DON'T already own any other Hammond board.

 

Sure it's an expensive board for a very niche market segment, but hey it's half the price of a XK-5 or Legend Soul!

🤪

 

It's about 75% to 80% of the price on an XK-5, unless the early pricing is incorrect. As a result, I am not yet certain, especially if the engine is beyond the XK-5's.

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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On 5/6/2023 at 6:40 PM, HammondDave said:

My Mojo 61 still sounds (and probably feels) better… and it has excellent AP, EP, Clav, and Vox sounds for half the price. Oh, but it does not have the “Hammond” name that Suzuki paid good money for. If the name is so important, have at it! 

yamaha , send us a half rack MODX , . . . problem solved !  . . . sorry  , just dreamin' out loud 

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Someone suggested using a Numa 2 as a controller for the B3x. FYI, last I knew, the Numa 2 only transmits MIDI from the lower contact, making for a sluggish experience. 

Endorsing Artist/Ambassador for MAG Organs and Motion Sound Amplifiers, Organ player for SRT - www.srtgroove.com

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On 5/8/2023 at 12:34 PM, Mighty Motif Max said:

My SK Pro 73 does - standard iec connector.

OK.......was not aware. thanks

 

Roland RD-2000, Yamaha Motif XF7, Mojo 61, Invisible keyboard stand (!!!!!), 1939 Martin Handcraft Imperial trumpet

"Everyone knows rock music attained perfection in 1974. It is a scientific fact." -- Homer Simpson

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On the subject of organs, I just went to the shop today and played the YC61 that was there on display. I don't know which OS version it was.

It sounded superb to me, everything on it! Pianos, Organs and EPs were fantastic and I'm quite familiar with Yamaha's String and Brass soundset from other boards.

The action was quite acceptable, great for organ work, using gliss etc. of course while not being completely awful for piano.

The build quality is stellar, knobs drawbars and everything. Form factor is also fantastic.

I wonder how the organ would fair vs Hammond Suzuki sound. I can't find any shop that has both side by side so I can't do a "proper" comparison.

But I set my mind on NOT getting an Sk Pro anyway so it doesn't matter.

 

Sadly no YC73 or CP73 for me to try, I really wanted to feel the key action on those particular models first hand.

Apparently they have a few CP73s on order and people already snatched them before they arrived, seems like an extremely popular model.

 

P.S the action wasn't noisy as I expected. I read some reports about the action getting worse within a few months. Being a floor model I expected the worse but it could have been that not many people played it. Can't tell whether it's still a concern or has it gotten fixed by Yamaha (lubing? idk)

 

Catch me on YouTube for 200 IQ piano covers, musical trivia quizzes, tutorials, reviews and other fun stuff...

https://www.youtube.com/p1anoyc

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  • 1 month later...

Interesting that HammondSuzuki marketed the XK-4 nearly the same way as the Xk1c: “2 or 3 updates to Leslie/organ sounds” which the SK-1 was never able to get in its updates. From what I can tell they were very subtle changes, most probably being along the lines of: “Heh, I can change the Leslie mic from a Shure SM57 to a broken Shure SM58. Lol cool.” When I bought my SK Pro (61 keys, used for a fair price) I definitely thought: “Oh, I bet HS will do that again.” …yup they did that again (I guess Nord, Apple, Ford, Toyota, ….heh, even US Presidents are just all slight updates to the previous entity).
 

But really in the end those SK-1’s still serve a great purpose for organ work. It’s not like my SK-1 suddenly sounded “bad” or “ehhh decent” (no one’s saying that, but I feel like maybe it’s implied) with the XK1c’s out in the world. Who in the hell really can hear these 0.2% differences out in the wild? I’m sure if I was recording organs, the XK1c (and now the XK-4) will be 0.2% more believable to the listener with headphones. I’m sure the update is a bit more significant from SK Pro to XK-4 than SK-1 to XK1c but I doubt I would be just blown away if these were side-by-side (the extrabutton/knobs and dedicated overdrive knob is a sizable upgrade).
 

…I really should MIDI up my SK-1 with my SK Pro before I offload the SK-1 to compare Vox, Farfisa, Pipe, pianos/EP/clav/etc/Leslie …I don’t really have the video capabilities or nice editing abilities, but do have a decent recording rig.

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, Outkaster said:

All these comments and the keyboard hasn't been played by anyone here I bet.

 

Almost certainly, since the board hasn't shipped yet. Though that doesn't mean there's nothing to talk about, based on the info available so far. We always talk about stuff before it comes out, that's how we know who the optimists and pessimists are. 😉 

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Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Genuine question: aside from MIDI uses (and emulating the power-off trick), can anyone who’d be using this organ only board give me a reason why they’d use the pitch/mod wheels? If mod is assignable that makes sense, but wondering if anyone would actually use the pitch bend in an organ setting? I could genuinely see myself using it on organ when playing live, but I’m weird. For some folks pitch bending a rhodes is a sin, let alone organ. 
 

Not complaining - I love that it has them and wish more boards where it doesn’t “make sense” would add them! 

Hammond SKX

Mainstage 3

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Re: the pitch bend wheel, the Bonners video states it was designed to be a “really good MIDI controller.” But yeah, in an organ-centric setting, it is vulnerable to the usual sacrilegious applications.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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