I want a Princeton that won't break the bank

[picker]

One of the amps I felt most comfortable with was a silverface Princeton (non-reverb) When I set the volume around 1 o'clock, it had a great tone, on the edge of breakup, and with a good overdrive pedal, it would go into orbit! 
I've looked aound for an amp with the 6V6 powerr section like a Princeton, but with an effects loop, because delay and modulation effects just don't sound right to me going into the front of the amp. 
And, like most of us, money is very MUCH an object to me. I can't afford a high-dollar boutique beauty queen. 
Does anybody know of an amp like what I'm looking for  that isn't gonna put me in debt fot the rest of my life?

 

[KuruPrionz]

Can you solder? Try surfing some amp kits. 

Allen Amps has some kits, they are not the only ones.

 

http://www.allenamps.com/kits.html

 

AND, this is something that I know and nobody else believes until they hear my amp. Overlooked and undervalued. 

I have a Peavey Vypyr VIP 1, it is 20 watts with Transtube (a solid state analog emulation of a tube guitar amp circuit), 3 band EQ, a full array of built-in effects and a master volume. Tech 21 SansAmp is pretty good but the Peavey eats it's lunch for tone. I've owned and still own some Tech 21 gear. Not quite in the same league. 

3 reasons nobody listens - First, the amp comes with a fairly crappy 8" speaker - second, they have a knob labelled "Post Gain" that should be Labelled "Output Gain" or something else that makes sense - third, it says "Peavey" on it. 

I cut a new baffle and put a Peavey Scorpion 10" in mine. I figured out that turning the Post Gain knob way up really does emulate that tone of a great tube amp turned up the way you describe it. Add a Sanpera 1 and you can program a good variety of sounds AND the pedal clicks from a Volume pedal to a Wah pedal on all presets. 

 

FWIW, I've owned half a dozen vintage tweed Fenders (bought a 53 Deluxe once at the Fresno Swap Meet for $15!), at least 5 Fender Champ and Vibro-Champs, a buttload of other small tube amps from way back when, 9 Mesa amps (including 2 Subway Blues and one Blue Angel), a couple of more modern Fenders (Paul Rivera era), an Allen Accomplice, a Red Plate Blues Machine and probably some stuff I'm forgetting. I've played through Marshall half stacks, Fender Twins, a Hi-Watt that a friend left at my practice space for a few months, Princetons like you want and all sorts of other stuff including solid state. 

 

Stuff comes and goes (and is mostly gone now) but that little Peavey stays. It FEELS like I'm playing a tube amp, it SOUNDS like tubes and it's small, light and can be LOUD if you need it or sound LOUD at bedroom volumes. Including the speaker I have well under $200 in it, probably more like $150. 

 

I'll venture a guess that you think I must be insane. 😇 That's OK, I tried. And I'll keep playing the Peavey. I even left the name on it, something I never do. I want other guitarists to stare in disbelief. 😜

[Caevan O’Shite]

If you can find one, and at a price you consider affordable, the Fender Princeton Recording Amp would serve you VERY well, indeed.

GREAT amps, with an effects-loop, built-in reactive-load attenuator perfectly tailored to the amp, TS-style OD, compressor, and other useful, great bells 'n whistles... this amp will wow you and woo you.

I was going to buy a used one in a store years ago, but someone snagged it before I came back with cash (I wasn't plying plastic debit or paper checks at the time). The only thing that I'd want different about it is that overall, I prefer 12" speakers to 10", but YMMV, you'd probably prefer the 10".

The built-in attenuator is GREAT! And it has an effects-loop.

[Caevan O’Shite]

My 2nd post here: Maybe one of these might be well within the ballpark for you, and used specimens might be affordable? It's a bit more powerful than a 'regular' Princeton, but shouldn't be substantially louder in db's, and it's a 1x10 tube-combo that includes an effects-loop...

Supro 1970RK Keeley Custom Amplifier

[Caevan O’Shite]

My 3rd post:

It occurs to me that a Princeton or Princeton-based amp derives most of its overdrive coloration from the output-section of the amp when pushed; so, an effects-loop in such an amp will have very little or no improvement on the clean-to-overdriven character of any pedals placed in the loop, as opposed to any pedals placed in front of the amp's input. So, ultimately, it might be best for you to find the best deal on the best Princeton or Princeton-like amp for your wants here, and either run pedals in another small, clean amp in a 'wet/dry' arrangement, or mic or otherwise slave the amp and insert pedals or other effects at mixer for the PA and monitors...

[KuruPrionz]

Another vendor selling kits.

https://www.mojotone.com/amp-shop/amp-kits/brownface-amp-kits?page=1

[KuruPrionz]

2 hours ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

My 3rd post:

It occurs to me that a Princeton or Princeton-based amp derives most of its overdrive coloration from the output-section of the amp when pushed; so, an effects-loop in such an amp will have very little or no improvement on the clean-to-overdriven character of any pedals placed in the loop, as opposed to any pedals placed in front of the amp's input. So, ultimately, it might be best for you to find the best deal on the best Princeton or Princeton-like amp for your wants here, and either run pedals in another small, clean amp in a 'wet/dry' arrangement, or mic or otherwise slave the amp and insert pedals or other effects at mixer for the PA and monitors...

Output section harmonic distortion and compression IS the TONE!!!! There is a strange battle going on there - the output of the tubes is pushed through the output transformer, which then pushes it through the speaker. When a coil is moving in a magnetic field (speaker) it generates current, which must go somewhere (this is a big reason why speakers can get hot or even die). Some of that current goes back into the output transformer. Transformers do work in both directions so it ends up pushing back on the tubes, which then get hotter than they might if there was no pushback. And, there is your tone. Without that pushback, tube amps would probably run cooler and sound cleaner (which is just no fun for anybody!).

 

That is the aspect that sold me on Transtube, Hartley Peavey knew exactly what was going on and spent considerable time with his R&D department developing a solid state emulation of the sound of that phenomenon and it has it's own adjustment parameters.. Tech 21 got almost everything right but they haven't captured that aspect yet. 

Some of the digital amps do capture it but digital always has (however brief it may be) a lag time so the "feel" isn't quite right - yet. 

 

[picker]

On 3/17/2023 at 4:50 PM, KuruPrionz said:

AND, this is something that I know and nobody else believes until they hear my amp. Overlooked and undervalued. 

I have a Peavey Vypyr VIP 1, it is 20 watts with Transtube (a solid state analog emulation of a tube guitar amp circuit), 3 band EQ, a full array of built-in effects and a master volume. Tech 21 SansAmp is pretty good but the Peavey eats it's lunch for tone. I've owned and still own some Tech 21 gear. Not quite in the same league. 

 

WHat do you think of this model?

[picker]

https://reverb.com/item/39106565-peavey-vypyr-75-w-sanpera-1-footswitch?bk=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJqdGkiOiI4NDdkODhhNC1jZDY2LTQzMDYtOGZkOS0xY2YxM2JhZWQyYmUiLCJpYXQiOjE2NzkzNjE2MDgsInVzZXJfaWQiOiI5MTA0Iiwic2Vzc2lvbl9pZCI6IjEwMzhhYzIyLThiN2EtNDZlZC04ZmYxLTNiMjM3MjgxZWUzYyIsImNvb2tpZV9pZCI6IjFhYTQyNGY1LTFhOTItNGU0NC1iOWQ5LTQwZWRhMGZhZDk5NSIsInByb2R1Y3RfaWQiOiIzOTEwNjU2NSIsInNvdXJjZSI6Ik5PTkUifQ.MHszsrHDSD_nWQX-NUuIYATNSvLX7H7FCy47hmQR4DA Sorry, forgot to paste this link? Peavey Vypyr 75 w/ Sanpera 1 Footswitch | Reverb

[KuruPrionz]

On 3/20/2023 at 6:32 PM, picker said:

https://reverb.com/item/39106565-peavey-vypyr-75-w-sanpera-1-footswitch?bk=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJqdGkiOiI4NDdkODhhNC1jZDY2LTQzMDYtOGZkOS0xY2YxM2JhZWQyYmUiLCJpYXQiOjE2NzkzNjE2MDgsInVzZXJfaWQiOiI5MTA0Iiwic2Vzc2lvbl9pZCI6IjEwMzhhYzIyLThiN2EtNDZlZC04ZmYxLTNiMjM3MjgxZWUzYyIsImNvb2tpZV9pZCI6IjFhYTQyNGY1LTFhOTItNGU0NC1iOWQ5LTQwZWRhMGZhZDk5NSIsInByb2R1Y3RfaWQiOiIzOTEwNjU2NSIsInNvdXJjZSI6Ik5PTkUifQ.MHszsrHDSD_nWQX-NUuIYATNSvLX7H7FCy47hmQR4DA Sorry, forgot to paste this link? Peavey Vypyr 75 w/ Sanpera 1 Footswitch | Reverb

That is the first iteration of Vypyr amp and it's pretty damn good. Note that the ad says clearly "Local Pickup Only" so you'd have to be near Baltimore. 

 

Full disclosure, I only learned about how to use the Post Gain knob more recently and I no longer owned one of the original Vypyrs (I've owned 2 of them). 

So I don't know if it will respond the same way as it does on the VIP. I'm guessing it's pretty close but I really don't know. 

I do know that the stock 12" is pretty good but probably no match for a Scorpion. The 8" in my little amp sucked but most 8"s just aren't enough cone area anyway. 

 

One big difference between that and the VIP series is that the knob to select amplifiers added a middle position for the push switch function. 

On the one you listed you can get a green light for cleaner tones and a red light for very high gain tones. 

The VIP added an orange light for medium overdrive tones. I never managed to come to grips with the red light, it's just too much distortion for me. A metal player might love it. It does sound good for what it is. Now that I have the Post Gain sussed out I hardly use the orange light either. 

 

I mostly stay in the green area, if you run the Post Gain knob high, that's were the sound of a tube amp cranked way up comes from. It's not a heavy distortion, but it sings and there is enough chime and clarity to keep me smiling. 

[p90jr]

On 3/15/2023 at 7:18 PM, picker said:

One of the amps I felt most comfortable with was a silverface Princeton (non-reverb) When I set the volume around 1 o'clock, it had a great tone, on the edge of breakup, and with a good overdrive pedal, it would go into orbit! 
I've looked aound for an amp with the 6V6 powerr section like a Princeton, but with an effects loop, because delay and modulation effects just don't sound right to me going into the front of the amp. 
And, like most of us, money is very MUCH an object to me. I can't afford a high-dollar boutique beauty queen. 
Does anybody know of an amp like what I'm looking for  that isn't gonna put me in debt fot the rest of my life?

 

For me, this notch was filled by a Supro Blues King 12 that I got from a Black Friday sale at Sweetwater for $299...

6L6 tubes, not 6V6 (my Supro 1600 Supremes are 6V6), but 15 watts, a 12" speaker instead of a 10", effects loop, reverb, and "gain" and "boost" functions that are foot switchable. Everything flat out with those engaged and it has an old Chicago "broken" fuzzy thumpy sound... and unfortunately, that's all the early demo vids I saw bothered to do with it. It does a lot more... and it's small and lightweight and can be LOUD if you want... great by itself (with footswitch, or even without) as a grab and go for jamming with just a guitar, but is a good "pedal platform (I kind of hate that term, but it's better than saying "it takes pedals well")"... if I'm playing with a small quiet group (I back up a singer-songwriter who plays acoustic and there's also an upright bassist) then I can use it quiet enough but with the gain and/or boost and/or master volume get it cooking...

(with a slight circuitry and cosmetic change these amps are now sold as Supro Delta Kings)