OT: My apologies

[CowboyNQ]

12 minutes ago, GRollins said:

I've never met any board member here in person. I can't fill in, in my head, the quirks and nuances that people use when they're speaking, using that as a guide as to how to "hear" the words that I read off my screen. Typing, as a mode of communication, has limitations. It's easy to misinterpret things people say because you can't hear the little things that add layers of meaning to the words.

 

I never use emojis. Ever. I've not found that they actually do much to clarify meaning. At best, they're redundant, kind of like a Greek chorus repeating what the poster just said. At worst, they lead the conversation even further astray. I'll take my chances with the written word and hope that my eloquence (or lack thereof) is sufficient unto the moment. If something I say gets taken the wrong way, I try to elaborate. It's a way to keep my writing skills moving along--as an author I need to be able to express myself in print, even in cases where there are no emojis.

 

That said, I see from posts in this thread where people have taken things I said in directions I did not mean or anticipate. The same posters seem to take things that others say in ways that I don't think match their intentions. That leads me to the conclusion that there are people who, wittingly or otherwise, 'put words into other peoples' mouths.' Now, I'll freely admit that I could be wrong. Maybe person A, posting a thought, was correctly interpreted by person B...and my understanding of A is incorrect. Could be. Yep, could be. But...the posters who (it seems to me) are the ones misinterpreting posts and putting words in other peoples' mouths seem to give off a consistently hostile vibe, and that makes me wonder...

 

Grey

Based on a limited sample size, I reckon you’d love meeting pretty much any of the forumites face-to-face, be it in person or via Zoom/Teams.

Not an easy thing to do from my part of the world, but it’s been worth the effort.

[EricBarker]

This has turned into one of the most wholesome topics on this forum. Eric's tend to think alike (or are serial killers, but whatever). When I first saw that thread I'll admit I also reeled a bit. I know what you were getting at, @CyberGene, and it's something we all have to face as individuals: are we okay being "inferior" to our partners? I'm lucky, my wife is a badass... Linguist... a field I'm very interested in, but don't pretend to have much formal expertise beyond a few Linguistic-Anthropology classes. I get that it might be trickier to navigate a relationship where both of us were on exactly the same path. But if we were, then I think it's also an opportunity for personal growth and to tame one's ego. Eventually we all need to learn how to be inferior, and be okay with that, while still striving for personal excellence. Easier said than done.

[Anderton]

26 minutes ago, zephonic said:

I get your point, but when I look at all the amazing youngsters on youtube, my impressions is that music is better than ever, and talent has more avenues available to find its audience.

 

I understand people lament about the million dollar record budgets of yore, but maybe that was an anomaly, not the norm?

 

Yes, that was the anomaly - part of the same bubble that made multinational corporations buy up record labels (and had no idea how to run them). I should have said the music business was dying. The encouraging aspect is I see more people enjoying it as a hobby, which is great. I've always said that there's nothing wrong with music being like bowling or fishing - a few people are professionals, but most pursue it as a hobby. 

 

Yes, talent has more avenues available to find an audience, but get in line behind the other 60,000 songs uploaded every day if you want to get noticed. 

 

However, I do feel that knowing you can't make a living at something is going to put people on a different career path. As Cybergene says, "My 5 year old has a dream of becoming a pop singer diva." But the odds are almost astronomically against her ever realizing that dream. When people had dreams of being a pop star back in the 60s - 80s, even if you didn't make it big, you could still make a decent living. That may have been the tipping point for some people to decide to get serious about music, and pursue their craft...which would lead to coming to forums and such to gain a competitive advantage.

 

I won't post anymore, I get that this thread is about a different topic, but I wanted to add that maybe this isn't an industry that appeals so much to a younger generation - both men and women.

[CyberGene]

@EricBarkeryou probably meant to tag @Montunoman 2instead? My participation in both threads has been mostly meta-related responses to other people questioning the need for the thread and not the main topic of one living with a more talented partner. I have my opinion but I prefer to keep it for myself 😉

[EricBarker]

Just now, CowboyNQ said:

Based on a limited sample size, I reckon you’d love meeting pretty much any of the forumites face-to-face, be it in person or via Zoom/Teams.

Not an easy thing to do from my part of the world, but it’s been worth the effort.

Saaaame. I always end up living in the most remote places. Alaska, Hawaii, Ohio... okay, maybe not the latter. I've only met a very few people online in-person (not counting friend of a friend kind of thing). However, probably the best was I met a wonderful Synth and Keytar player, Marc Barnes, in Glasgow (Scotland) just before COVID. We had been co-managing a Keytar Facebook group for a while, and I ended up there on work with my wife. He introduced us to his teenage son, and we had a lovely time. BTW: check out his YouTube videos if you get the chance, he has so much joy playing keytars and synths... and that thick Glaswegian accent can't help make you smile!

1 minute ago, CyberGene said:

@EricBarkeryou probably meant to tag @Montunoman 2instead? My participation in both threads has been mostly meta-related responses to other people questioning the need for the thread and not the question of more talented partner. I have my opinion but I prefer to keep it for myself 😉

I did, my apologies!

[David Emm]

18 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

My 5 year old has a dream of becoming a pop singer diva 😀 But she’s not interested in the numerous keyboards at home. I don’t think music is dying. Not at all. Maybe it’s the music of our generation that is dying.

 

One of my remaining musically astute pals recently said that people don't go to a concert for the music now; they go for a SHOW. Yes, that was always a component, but in my main concert-going days, what the band played took priority: "Can they pull that stuff off live?" Very few current popular artists seem to be known for their ability on an instrument; its their singing or dance moves.

 

I don't think our generation's music is dying when Jon Anderson appeared in front of a student orchestra who asked to perform "I've Seen All Good People," so they clearly discover the grand music of OUR youth thanks to YouTube, etc. The commercial buggery of it will always be present. I just wish there was a more complete translation than the 10-to-30-second bites that pass for "listening" now. One glimmer of hope: I played my old fave "Olias of Sunhillow" for a young'un who had just discovered "Fragile." His jaw dropped and stayed there. He all but crapped a boat motor.

[Stokely]

Getting more off the original topic, but while I think live pop/rock music is dying, music and playing is not.  Go to a middle school concert and watch what those kids are capable of after a measly few months on instruments like french horn, tuba etc.   It's mind-boggling, at least around here (a few of the schools around here are "competitive band" schools, which is kind of a higher level of competition for marching and symphonic bands.  And the high school bands are simply incredible, marching or jazz bands or the choirs, all of it.  My oldest lived the "band life", and that meant 2-3 hours marching after school four days a week, rain or blistering heat, following by a ton of weekend band shows.   

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, MAJUSCULE said:

Tact and context can weave a whole lot of stuff into our discussions here...

That's it brotha Eric. 

 

As a minority on this forum, it often takes restraint for me to post what I truly think of certain topics. 

 

Tact and context are always warranted in a discussion (virtual or real world) especially among a mixed group of folks. 

 

It is never a good idea to assume the reader/listener is a card carrying member of the *club*. 😎

[TommyRude]

Music, as it was, is dying or dead (although there are some vestiges that live on perennially).  Music as it is, is alive and kicking.  Music as it will be, I'm excited to see and hear what's coming.

[surfergirl]

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

There are simple reasons why there are not many women here. This is a forum mostly about equipment talk and women tend to not be so obsessed with equipment and gadgets as men. And then, forums are dying, young people are on social networks, so you should not expect many new people to register here, regardless of their sex.

My grandfather who has been playing guitar for almost 60 years could care less about equipment. Guitar, amp and a little reverb.

I love equipment and I joined, what was then The Guitar Player Forum over 5 years ago for the very purpose of learning about equipment. I have 3 amps which I can now fully utilized and have added 6 effect pedals which I'm still learning to use. All this from people on the forum. You are probably right that women are less interested in equipment, but there also men are not interested in equipment.

[surfergirl]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

My 5 year old has a dream of becoming a pop singer diva 😀 But she’s not interested in the numerous keyboards at home. I don’t think music is dying. Not at all. Maybe it’s the music of our generation that is dying.

Good for her. I wanted to be a pro surfer when I was 5. It didn't happen, but I surf everyday and love it just as much, maybe more because I'm doing it for fun.

If being a "pop singer diva" doesn't work out she may find another way just as fulfilling.

[Steve Nathan]

7 minutes ago, surfergirl said:

My grandfather who has been playing guitar for almost 60 years could care less about equipment. Guitar, amp and a little reverb.

I love equipment and I joined, what was then The Guitar Player Forum over 5 years ago for the very purpose of learning about equipment. I have 3 amps which I can now fully utilized and have added 6 effect pedals which I'm still learning to use. All this from people the forum. You probably right that women are less interested in equipment, but there also men are no interested in equipment.

It's a commonly stated belief that it's the "differences" between male and female, that accounts for the disparity in past participation.  Many people my age don't like to consider that for hundreds of years, men have made women feel unwelcome in every "Boys Club"  be it Athletics, Math, Science, Music ...........  Watch out Grandpa, the girls are coming.  

[CyberGene]

28 minutes ago, surfergirl said:

You are probably right that women are less interested in equipment, but there also men are not interested in equipment.

There are certainly some exceptions. But generally men (not all of them of course) tend to be more interested in gadgetry and equipment than women, being it photography, music, etc. And I actually think being obsessed with equipment rather than music itself is kind of silly, it's something I fall victim for way too often and I would prefer if I spent more time playing rather than tinkering with my synths or researching what newer toy to buy... My wife makes better pictures with her iPhone than I can do with my mirrorless camera despite me being able to talk about exposure, ISO, dynamic range and all that BS all day long while she just has better artistic eye than me 😀 So, I mean no disrespect towards women when I say most of them are not interested in equipment. Quite on the contrary, I think this super obsessiveness about equipment which is often seen in forums like this one and is more typical of men, is the one that stands out as a bit weird.

[Dave Bryce]

1 hour ago, Anderton said:

I'd be happy to move this thread there if that's what people want. If fact I would highly recommend that people from KCS start OT topics there.

 

 

dB

[jazzpiano88]

18 minutes ago, Dave Bryce said:

 

 

dB

 

What?!!?   No OT:  Can a Hatfield Keyboardist marry a McCoy Drummer and bring their families together in harmony?

 

Shheeesh!  I thought KC was the perfect place to settle arguments from All in the Family episodes.   (NOT )

 

Seriously though, most OT here threads seem to be reasonable to get feedback from our community, whom we have grown accustomed to.

[Dave Bryce]

3 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

What?!!?   No OT:  Can a Hatfield Keyboardist marry a McCoy Drummer and bring their families together in harmony?

 

That's keyboard related... 

 

 

3 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

Shheeesh!  I thought KC was the perfect place to settle arguments from All in the Family episodes.   (NOT )

 

All In The Family, no.  Monkees show, yes. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

Seriously though, most OT here threads seem to be reasonable to get feedback from our community, whom we have grown accustomed to.

 

Agreed...and I'm not saying all OT should be moved to SSS, just that there's a lot more leeway at SSS.

 

dB

 

 

[GRollins]

Uh...for those of us who are short on sleep, what's SSS?

 

From the People Who Are Mad At Everybody Department:

Not long after my wife left work today, a woman in the parking lot nearly hit a pedestrian. The pedestrian turned and spat on the car. The driver of the car shot the woman dead. Boom! Details are still hazy. This is still in the Breaking News category.

 

But...dayum...that's just a little too much anger. And a gun? Was that really called for? I'm sure there are people who would say that the dead woman should have been carrying a gun for "self defense." But to what end? Shoot the driver of the car for nearly hitting her? Shoot the driver as soon as they rolled down their window? Shoot them after they're lying dead on the ground? Where does this gun stupidity end? Ya reckon the driver carries their gun for "self defense?" Against what? Having their car spit on? After they nearly hit the pedestrian? Sure, let's double down...if you don't hit 'em with the car, the gun'll do the trick for sure! (Early indications are that the murderer and victim did not know each other. This was just a random parking lot interaction.)

 

Did I mention that the dead woman had just put her child in her car. Now the poor kid's mother has been murdered right in front of them.

 

There are people who want to be angry. They relish it. They crave the adrenaline rush of righteous anger. They do not think. They do not reason. Instantaneous negative emotional reactions are all they know. Never positive emotions. Always negative.

 

None of my wife's coworkers were harmed. Scared out of their wits, though. This happened less than 50 feet from where my wife works.

 

Guns and flashpoint anger make for a bad combination. Some peoples' view is that the cure is to throw gasoline on the fire by adding more guns. Really? Think that one through, did ya?

 

There are people here who strike me as being a little too angry. The thing is, they don't see themselves as being angry. Of course not. Their distress is entirely justified...in their own eyes. It's the other poster, not them. Perish the thought.

 

I...never mind...we're still digesting the shooting. What a day!

 

Happy Valentines! Be glad if your loved ones make it home alive. Hold 'em tight, they might not be here tomorrow.

 

Grey

[Dave Bryce]

18 minutes ago, GRollins said:

Uh...for those of us who are short on sleep, what's SSS?

 

SSS = Sound, Stage and Studio, Craig’s forum.  

 

It’s the main reason MPN exists, actually. We started as a group on AOL in the 90s called (wait for it) Craig Anderton’s Sound Stage and Studio, and the Music Player Network was created when AOL decided it didn’t want forum-type newsgroups any more.  

SSS is kind of like being in a bar/at a party with a bunch of musicians.  Pretty much any topic is fair game.

 

On that note, as this topic has now headed towards guns/shootings, I’m going to move it to SSS.

 

dB

[NewImprov]

3 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

One of my remaining musically astute pals recently said that people don't go to a concert for the music now; they go for a SHOW. Yes, that was always a component, but in my main concert-going days, what the band played took priority: "Can they pull that stuff off live?" Very few current popular artists seem to be known for their ability on an instrument; its their singing or dance moves.

 

I don't think our generation's music is dying when Jon Anderson appeared in front of a student orchestra who asked to perform "I've Seen All Good People," so they clearly discover the grand music of OUR youth thanks to YouTube, etc. The commercial buggery of it will always be present. I just wish there was a more complete translation than the 10-to-30-second bites that pass for "listening" now. One glimmer of hope: I played my old fave "Olias of Sunhillow" for a young'un who had just discovered "Fragile." His jaw dropped and stayed there. He all but crapped a boat motor.

In fact, I'd argue that in general, younger listeners know more about the music of "our" generation (I'm 60) than people my age generally know about theirs. I work at a record store, and I literally just made a sale to someone in their late-teens, 3 lp's, A King Gizzard and the Lizzard Wizzard album, the Maneskin album, and Yes' Close to the Edge. I'd guess there are more teens listening to Yes at this moment than geezer's listening to King Gizzard (though they are a great and prolific band, y'all should check them out).

[Anderton]

There's no doubt that back catalog continues to sell. I think part of it may be that so much music is available that anyone who wants to check out music isn't constrained to a) what's on the radio, or b) what they can afford to buy from a record store.

 

I can't help but think that classical music works the same way. Maybe there were a bunch of Bach wannabees, but their music wasn't as good, so it got left by the wayside. People might still be listening to Yes decades from now. Not so sure about Iron Butterfly

[nursers]

14 hours ago, CyberGene said:

There are simple reasons why there are not many women here. This is a forum mostly about equipment talk and women tend to not be so obsessed with equipment and gadgets as men. And then, forums are dying, young people are on social networks, so you should not expect many new people to register here, regardless of their sex.

I would definitely disagree with this. It's only a sample of 70 people but of the 70 keyboard players I've spoken with, the female players have been at least as interested or more interested in gear than the male guests

[CyberGene]

1 hour ago, Dr Nursers said:

I would definitely disagree with this. It's only a sample of 70 people but of the 70 keyboard players I've spoken with, the female players have been at least as interested or more interested in gear than the male guests

There's no contradiction, since your statistics are not a representative sampling among all women but just among keyboard players. If one has chosen to be a keyboard player in the first place, she's already aware she has to deal with synths/workstations/software that require a fair bit of geekiness, programming and all the other complexities surrounding us keyboardists. Statistically you can't state women are equally interested in equipment as men because 100% of your guests are implicitly interested in equipment already, or in other words they are "preselected". It's like asking women on the female soccer team whether they like soccer and then generalize about all women 😉

 

A real study would be to to start with all the female musicians and then see which one of them are those that deal with music instruments that require technical understanding, frequent upgrades, programming, digging into user manuals, forums, etc. (I guess guitarists and keyboardists are the two main subgroups).

[Red Ranger]

3 hours ago, CyberGene said:

A real study would be to to start with all the female musicians and then see which one of them are those that deal with music instruments that require technical understanding, frequent upgrades, programming, digging into user manuals, forums, etc. (I guess guitarists and keyboardists are the two main subgroups).

Presumably the same study would be applied to all male musicians as well.

[MathOfInsects]

12 hours ago, Anderton said:

I can't help but think that classical music works the same way. Maybe there were a bunch of Bach wannabees, but their music wasn't as good, so it got left by the wayside. 

Actually, it was specifically the access to the means of preservation and structure of the society that determined whose music we are still listening to--much like "today."* In Bach's case, we've spent centuries now hailing his genius for some compositions that it turns out he did not write. The composers we know, are specifically those who were associated with the church and/or the state, who had a stake in presenting and preserving their output, or sometimes those who had other access to means of publishing. (Susato owned a printing press, for example.) It's not that the only people at the time touched by genius were white males from privileged families, it's just that that's whose work was performed and preserved. There were plenty of others who had the exact same potential to produce the same kind of canon, but whose work came and went, or never arose in the first place. 

Joseph Boulogne was a brilliant composer who advanced the form in his time (mid-late 1700's), and is arguably even worth calling one of his age's leading thinkers. Yet if anyone's heard of him at all it it's with the sort of bemused nickname of "The Black Mozart." He wasn't that. He was potentially a towering figure in his own right. There is a compelling case to be made that Mozart, in fact, took some ideas from him. Yet that nickname alone lets you know who we chose to esteem and who we chose to make a supporting cast-member. And he was from a rich family with the means to fund an education and the access to the mantles of power. Just imagine the number of other people who "bloomed in darkness" along the way. 

* I am using "today" loosely. Starting with Napster, the means of distribution started to slip away from those at the levers of power in a significant way--much moreso than the bootlegged cassettes of the past. You could get "the labels' music" without the labels' help. Then starting with MySpace and early youtube, even the label model began to crack. And with GarageBand and similar products, access to the required technology--sort of the holy grail of American pop music creation--evened out. Now it's easier and cheaper to get your song heard by yourself than via "the machine"--this is the first time that's been true. It's also the reason the financial potential of those DIY channels is so paltry, and always will be, until the labels buy the audio and video streaming services and can once again control access and distribution.

 

[CEB]

Before you all start painting everyone as being a good guy here remember you have me.  😀

[Anderton]

I've had the good fortune to work with quite a few women in the music industry and tech industry, and they are anything but a monolithic block. Some see being a woman as an advantage, because there's still somewhat of a novelty factor that can at least get a door open. Some find common ground with other women navigating this industry with "women in rock"-type events, while others find that kind of thing counter-productive because they want to be known as good musicians, not good woman musicians. Some have horror stories of dealing with chauvinist morons while others have great stories about men who mentored them to help them further their careers. I've known plenty of women in tech, like Laurie Spiegel, Jennifer Hruska, EveAnna Manley, and so many others who've made major contributions to the tech side of things. I couldn't have written "MIDI for Musicians" without the help of Donna Murray at E-Mu systems, who was doing much (if not most?) of the MIDI software programming for the Emulator II. 

 

So ultimately, I think it's a mistake to think of "women" in the industry, because they're all individuals with different goals and experiences. I'd like to think that treating anyone of any gender, race, faith, background, etc. as an individual is the quickest way to make that individual feel welcome. 

[David Emm]

Donna Murray is now added to my Heroes list. During the most notable popular era of E-mu, I came into the fold with the Proteus line. Even now, the quality of E-mu's sounds is impressive. They're semi-dated once in a while, but as a rule, they're solid in exposed roles and astounding in their ability to enhance everything else in a layer. I still tweedle my Planet Earth, whose depth is amazing, even if programming it through that modest display can be like building a ship in a bottle. Other manufacturers had rise-&-fall quality issues, but the E-mu gear I had was (and still is) exceptional.

 

Glasses up for Ms. Donna and everyone else who made E-mu rock. 

[Threadslayer]

21 hours ago, CEB said:

Before you all start painting everyone as being a good guy here remember you have me.  😀

I think Smurfette digs you.

[pinkfloydcramer]

On 2/16/2023 at 4:03 PM, Threadslayer said:

I think Smurfette digs you.

Just don’t objectify her. Even if she asks for it.

[David Emm]

Its always bothered me a bit that Smurfette is seemingly the only female Smurf.

 

I have enough to worry about without going down a potentially vulgar, moist path like that. I'm still coming to terms with that Velma thing. 🤔