Nord Stage 4 Announced

[El Lobo]

Apologies for going off topic but I just had to say that when I see Stage 4 in a subject line, I think terminal cancer diagnosis. I guess I've seen too much of that. Carry on .... 

[Keyboardplayer]

I think the Clavia Nord Stage 4 is an absolutely wonderful keyboard. They've been selling like hotcakes, and it's no surprise. OTOH, since we now know the official launch date of the next generation Yamaha Montage people might want to hold off for another month or so i.e. the official launch is sometime in October. I say that because Yamaha might blow everything else out of the water like they did the first time around, in my humble opinion. OTOH, if the new Montage doesn't live up to expectations, then the Nord Stage 4 is always there to spend your money on. Quite a bit of money, I might add. FWIW, the new Montage M is supposed to retail for around the same price as the original Montage8/7/6 according to sources. If that is true, then you could save yourself a lot of money, especially if the new Montage wipes the floor with the competition. And knowing Yamaha, they could very well accomplish that feat this time around as well. Just a thought. But of course, to each his own. If you've got cash to burn, you can't go wrong with the Nord Stage 4, in my opinion. Personally, I'll wait and see what Yamaha has to offer and go from there.   

[Nathanael_I]

On 9/15/2023 at 6:56 PM, JazzPiano88 said:

 

Sounds intriguing!   Can you expand on where it stands out?   Is it applicable in a normal keyboard live band mix incl solos, or more for keyboard sound design where you are able to more discern subtleties?  Or both?  Do you have any clips to showcase it in either application?   

I use it both for “unreal ambient space” as well as standard hall reverb. It isn’t that the hall reverb in the Nord is bad. I have the H90, and it is a better, lusher reverb, so I use it.  I’m used to using the H9000 in studio, so the H90 is very familiar to me.  I can make some clips later this week or next weekend… busy time. But it’s just an excellent spatialization tool with a lot of creative potential.  

[Phil Aiken]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:26 PM, MathOfInsects said:

Picture please!

 

 I will be using it at a rehearsal tomorrow and will snap a pic or two. Unless I forget, but then will take it out of my van at home long enough to take a photo.

[cphollis]

I've now spent about six hours programming my new NS4C.   There is a short learning curve coming from NS3  to figure out a few new workflows (like saving and recalling sections), but then its off to the races. 

 

Much like you'd work the drawbars on a B3, you can work the seven voice sliders leading to a new way to play the instrument.  Every stage keyboard should have something similar.

 

The best workflow seems to be to create a complete program (organ, piano, synth each with fx), and then save off the individual sections for later reuse.  A great organ sound is a great organ sound, for example.

 

Nice surprises: organ engine sounds better to my ears, the piano unisons are awesome, the FX section is next level, dozens of thoughtful touches throughout.  You can tell Nord did not rush this board out, but took their time to sweat the details.

 

Minor nits: stone-age USB interface, abysmally slow data transfer rates, comes with surprisingly few synth presets.  Still a few midi bugs in SW, otherwise mature and robust.

 

TL:DR major upgrade from NS3, very fast sound design with great results, new live performance features, very much worth it for me.

[Nathanael_I]

On 9/15/2023 at 6:56 PM, JazzPiano88 said:

 

Sounds intriguing!   Can you expand on where it stands out?   Is it applicable in a normal keyboard live band mix incl solos, or more for keyboard sound design where you are able to more discern subtleties?  Or both?  Do you have any clips to showcase it in either application?   

I'm still pretty swamped this weekend.   Video isn't going to happen.  But I do have a couple of audio clips I made to sample the sound design for myself.  These will give you an idea of the textures I can get.  All sounds come from the Nord Stage 4, OB-6 desktop, H90, and the Hologram. 

 

 

 

Amber Upright

Felt Upright

One of the EPs

 

Each of these patches totally changes feel if I change the FX, or the synth/sample balances, or the piano sample.  What I love is that the piano changes on a knob, the FX change on a dial, and the synth balance is on faders.  It is all immediately to hand.  I can change the filter on the OB-6, or the velocity envelope depth to control brightness and articulation in the synth layer.  It's all immediate.

 

Next up is mounting the OB-6 and pedals on a board, all pre-cabled so it's easy and fast to set up. 

 

[jazzpiano88]

Thanks for the demos!  Sound really nice!!

[AnotherScott]

On 8/29/2023 at 1:17 AM, kanefsky said:

One small but very annoying thing is that most of the time the device you run the app on is going to have some kind of screen timeout or lock, which means that when you want to adjust anything you often have to go through the process of waking or unlocking your screen first.  Then there may be additional delay if you need to switch to the appropriate app or wait for the app to (re)establish its connection to the device.

This "timeout" behavior is easily deactivated, at least on iOS.

 

On 8/29/2023 at 10:46 AM, stoken6 said:

On 8/28/2023 at 5:32 PM, JoJoB3 said:

Although also overpriced for it's build I think their C2D was the somewhat most useful of the lot actually.

Why?

A double-manual is always going to be a bit of a schlep, but IIRC, the Nord double-manuals were the lightest. And it even had the full 4 drawbars sets. Plus everything used standard MIDI CCs so it worked well as a controller for most organ apps/VSTs, too. I wouldn't say it was the most useful Nord, but it was a nice implementation of a dual-manual organ.

 

On 8/30/2023 at 3:32 PM, Spider76 said:

The moment Nord puts in its instruments a big color touchscreen...will be the moment they lose me as a customer.

OTOH, the lack of MODX/Fantom/Kronos style set list screens for easy patch selection (and re-ordering) is still something of a Nord weakness, IMO.

[kanefsky]

13 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

This "timeout" behavior is easily deactivated, at least on iOS.

 

Some apps have an option to prevent the screen from sleeping when that app is active, but unless your app happens to have that feature most people probably would not want to permanently disable the screen timeout on their phones just for that reason (due to the negative impact on battery life, screen longevity, privacy, security, etc.)  Reconfiguring the settings every time you start and finish using your keyboard would kind of defeat the time-saving purpose as well.

 

There's a million other reasons I shouldn't even need to explain that make it annoying to depend on an app on your phone to control something that should have dedicated controls. I would reluctantly tolerate it for obscure, rarely-used settings or as a secondary method but otherwise it would be a show-stopper.  With my thermostat, for example, I don't mind that I can only access historical graphs of my energy usage from an app, but there's no way I'd buy it if I couldn't view and set the temperature right on the thermostat itself.

 

[Nathanael_I]

Gig note:  the new EQ per part is fantastic.  In a room with the subs set too high everything was very boomy, especially layered pads. It was near instant to select each part, lower the bass 10dB and hear the sound clean right up.  I didn’t save the patch so it’s ready for use other places, but this quick adaptability to the needs of a room is wonderful. No menus. Push the part select button, turn the bass EQ knob.  Done.  
 

It’s a great keyboard for playing out in varied situations.  I remain pleased with the decision. 

[allan_evett]

15 hours ago, Nathanael_I said:

Gig note:  the new EQ per part is fantastic.  In a room with the subs set too high everything was very boomy, especially layered pads. It was near instant to select each part, lower the bass 10dB and hear the sound clean right up.  I didn’t save the patch so it’s ready for use other places, but this quick adaptability to the needs of a room is wonderful. No menus. Push the part select button, turn the bass EQ knob.  Done.  
 

It’s a great keyboard for playing out in varied situations.  I remain pleased with the decision. 

I am pleased, as well. Earlier this year, it initially appeared to be a Stage upgrade I would pass on, but after further study I began to see the benefits of having a Stage 4.
I haven’t taken my Stage 4 Compact out yet,  but it will be a strong complement to my CK88. 
 

A big thanks goes to RedKey and Moonglow for insight and guidance in this process!

[Fleer]

Still, I guess I’ll wait for the upcoming Electro 7. 

[time4jazz]

Nord just released this good tutorial. 
 

 

[Iconoclast]

My favorite thing about this video is that I have that exact same rug. Evidently Nord shops at Ikea.

[JoJoB3]

It needs to be redder!

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast said:

My favorite thing about this video is that I have that exact same rug. Evidently Nord shops at Ikea.

 

That's why Nords are so expensive building those Ikea keybeds is a nightmare only a few can do. 

[JoJoB3]

Even if it was a sub $2k board (which it probably should be btw) I likely wouldn't go Nord.  It just rarely feels 'special' whenever I have to use one. So many folks using these same Nordy sounds...it's just not as interesting (in the keys realm). 
Anyway, I'm not seeing Nord prices being justified. The very affordable Roland VR-09/VR-730 still gives the NS3 and NS4 a run for it's money in the synths and bread and butter world and it's UI is even faster than the Nords. I think the VR organ is better sounding btw whereas the Nord epiano and ac piano fare much better.

I still feel one can do even better damage for far less $ using your current board and laptop and adding say, Omnisphere and Keyscape.  Bread and butter x100, synths for miles + lots more. It will likely have the mappings for the synth/epiano/ctrlr you already use now including the red stuff of the past.

I mainly play the full B3 setup so there's no getting around that haul but I've used this portable setup tons of times with an MS Surface and the sound difference noticeably better, more interesting. Incredibly light loads that don't sound light.

I don't 'hate' Nord, I just know I'm not buying their stuff.  I DO hate the color red though.
They're like Apple honestly. They'll never see a dime from me.

[Cabo]

That's a great tutorial -- very helpful.

[ProfD]

11 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

So many folks using these same Nordy sounds...it's just not as interesting (in the keys realm).

Nord has marketed their products very well among musicians and built a small following around them.

 

11 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

Anyway, I'm not seeing Nord prices being justified. The very affordable Roland VR-09/VR-730 still gives the NS3 and NS4 a run for it's money in the synths and bread and butter world and it's UI is even faster than the Nords. I think the VR organ is better sounding btw whereas the Nord epiano and ac piano fare much better.

The VR-09 is a reasonable tool. But, it doesn't have three (3) KBs in one with the same level of tactility from a performance perspective.

11 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

I still feel one can do even better damage for far less $ using your current board and laptop and adding say, Omnisphere and Keyscape.  Bread and butter x100, synths for miles + lots more. It will likely have the mappings for the synth/epiano/ctrlr you already use now including the red stuff of the past.

This perspective comes up quite a bit when trying to rationalize the difference in cost between a red one and anything else.

 

A computer-based setup requires buying a laptop, software, MIDI KB controller and audio interface.

 

Also, a computer-based set-up has to be configured and optimized to work as well as a self-contained, plug & play KB.

 

11 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

I don't 'hate' Nord, I just know I'm not buying their stuff.  I DO hate the color red though.

While on paper, it would be the perfect KB for what I do, I don't own a Nord.

 

I've test driven every iteration of the Nord Stage. Yet, there's something cold and sterile about it from my FTEC perspective. I'm not a fan of the color either. 

 

However, I would use a backlined Nord Stage in a situation that didn't require schlepping my Rhodes.  I may end up buying a Stage by default.😁

 

11 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

They're like Apple honestly. They'll never see a dime from me.

I've given them money on behalf of family members but personally, I don't own any of their products either. 

 

Maybe if there was a Granny Smith version of Nord and Apple, I could get with the program. 🤣😎

[Motif88]

While the Nord Stage 4 was on my short list, I went for the Montage M8x. Outside of the usual "Nord is stage instrument for performance", would love a side by side if anyone owns both.

[JoJoB3]

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

Nord has marketed their products very well among musicians and built a small following around them.

 

The VR-09 is a reasonable tool. But, it doesn't have three (3) KBs in one with the same level of tactility from a performance perspective.

This perspective comes up quite a bit when trying to rationalize the difference in cost between a red one and anything else.

 

A computer-based setup requires buying a laptop, software, MIDI KB controller and audio interface.

 

Also, a computer-based set-up has to be configured and optimized to work as well as a self-contained, plug & play KB.

 

While on paper, it would be the perfect KB for what I do, I don't own a Nord.

 

I've test driven every iteration of the Nord Stage. Yet, there's something cold and sterile about it from my FTEC perspective. I'm not a fan of the color either. 

 

However, I would use a backlined Nord Stage in a situation that didn't require schlepping my Rhodes.  I may end up buying a Stage by default.😁

 

I've given them money on behalf of family members but personally, I don't own any of their products either. 

 

Maybe if there was a Granny Smith version of Nord and Apple, I could get with the program. 🤣😎

Yeah, not to steer this too much into PC vs Mac but Nord is very similar to Apple.
But 'most' artists today already own a capable laptop. Otherwise yeah add a capable laptop, or NUC/Mini, or Surface/iPad (touchscreens). Even so you're well below Nord pricing even after Keyscape/Omni (or the even more affordable but brilliant AcousticSamples products for incredible bread & butter + samples/synths/leads/pads/etc. galore. Soooo many virtual choices now). We've come a long way and the latter overall smokes most all-in-one stage boards (Nord, Roland, Yammy, etc) in output/sound and for less $.
* and now you have a capable computer to use 24/7, which every working artist should have.

But, I completely understand the beauty in the stage boards. Big fan of minimizing load in/out time (however, 1 or 2 controllers + laptop/iSurface is super duper nice on your spine vs. larger stage boards.  The VR-09 being a 12lb exception (turrible keybed though but I can deal. Most players can)
That's separate from output however. I think today's virtual surpasses the stage board in output/sound (or can be made to).

Also,  I think Nord stage keybeds are decent (fatar model: sumpin sumpin...because gawd forbid we have some competition in regard), but so are many others now (some even better).
 

[ProfD]

4 minutes ago, JoJoB3 said:

Otherwise yeah add a capable laptop, or NUC/Mini, or Surface/iPad (touchscreens). Even so you're well below Nord pricing even after Keyscape/Omni (or the even more affordable but brilliant AcousticSamples products for incredible bread & butter + samples/synths/leads/pads/etc. galore. Soooo many virtual choices now). We've come a long way and the latter overall smokes most all-in-one stage boards (Nord, Roland, Yammy, etc) in output/sound and for less $.

Imagine the time when most musicians realize they primarily use bread and butter sounds including basic synth stuff and that almost any digital piano (DP) will suffice.  Add a laptop or tablet optionally.  YMMV.😁😎

[bennyray]

Posted 16 hours ago

While the Nord Stage 4 was on my short list, I went for the Montage M8x. Outside of the usual "Nord is stage instrument for performance", would love a side by side if anyone owns both.

 

Quote

 

Using:

Yamaha: Montage M8x| Spectrasonics: Omnisphere, Keyscape | uhe: Diva, Hive2, Zebra2| Roland: Cloud Pro | Arturia: V Collection

| NI: Komplete 14 | VPS: Avenger | Cherry: GX80 | G-Force: OB-E | Korg: Triton, MS-20

 

Sold/Traded:

Yamaha: Motif XS8, Motif ES8, Motif8, KX-88, TX7 | ASM: Hydrasynth Deluxe| Roland: RD-2000, D50, MKS-20| Korg: Kronos 88, T3, MS-20

| Oberheim: OB8, OBXa, Modular 8 Voice | Rhodes: Dyno-My-Piano| Crumar: T2

     

I have been going back and forth on these 2 keyboards most likely will go Montage M8x as well any regrets.

 

Do u like the bread and butter sounds on Montage better know the synth seems to be better?

 

[Cabo]

I have both the Stage 4 - 88 and the Montage M6.  

 

They compliment each other nicely in terms of sounds.  The Montage's multi-sampled sounds mostly beat the Stage's sample library (imo), but I like the Stage's organs and acoustic pianos better.  Having all 9 drawbars (on the Stage) is important.  I haven't scraped the surface of the AN-X engine yet, but it seems like it will be very useful.  The Montage is definitely more deep and complex, but I find both keyboards to be organized more logically versus my experiences with Roland Fantom,  RD2000 and Korg Kronos.  The Stage's front panel is simple, but makes sense.  It's just so easy to grab whatever I need.  I like it much better than my Yamaha YC-73.

 

For me, going with the 88 Stage 4 versus the M8X was also a question of weight --  43 lbs. for Stage 4 versus 63lbs for M8X.  I can't imaging moving a 63lb keyboard to a gig.  The Stage's weight is manageable.   I also like that the the Stage is only 14 inches deep.   It's easy to pick up and fits nicely on multiple stands and can I get my upper keyboard closer and still read the displays and get at the controls versus some of the keyboards with greater depths. 

 

I also used a laptop setup for a couple of years.  Based on my current band requirements, I don't see the benefit sound-wise or logistics-wise.   Personally, it just created a lot of hassles for me; using all-in-one boards generally has worked out better for me.  The computer thing would probably be cheaper, but getting it set up and working nicely and sounding great was a lot of extra work / time that I'd now rather put towards making actual music.

 

 

[Motif88]

1 hour ago, Cabo said:

I have both the Stage 4 - 88 and the Montage M6.  

 

They compliment each other nicely in terms of sounds.  The Montage's multi-sampled sounds mostly beat the Stage's sample library (imo), but I like the Stage's organs and acoustic pianos better.  Having all 9 drawbars (on the Stage) is important.  I haven't scraped the surface of the AN-X engine yet, but it seems like it will be very useful.  The Montage is definitely more deep and complex, but I find both keyboards to be organized more logically versus my experiences with Roland Fantom,  RD2000 and Korg Kronos.  The Stage's front panel is simple, but makes sense.  It's just so easy to grab whatever I need.  I like it much better than my Yamaha YC-73.

 

For me, going with the 88 Stage 4 versus the M8X was also a question of weight --  43 lbs. for Stage 4 versus 63lbs for M8X.  I can't imaging moving a 63lb keyboard to a gig.  The Stage's weight is manageable.   I also like that the the Stage is only 14 inches deep.   It's easy to pick up and fits nicely on multiple stands and can I get my upper keyboard closer and still read the displays and get at the controls versus some of the keyboards with greater depths. 

 

I also used a laptop setup for a couple of years.  Based on my current band requirements, I don't see the benefit sound-wise or logistics-wise.   Personally, it just created a lot of hassles for me; using all-in-one boards generally has worked out better for me.  The computer thing would probably be cheaper, but getting it set up and working nicely and sounding great was a lot of extra work / time that I'd now rather put towards making actual music.

 

 

Agreed on the weight issue. The M8x is a beast in weight, height and depth. It barely fits in my studio desk. If I was still playing gigs it would not be part of my live rig either.

[AnotherScott]

19 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

 'most' artists today already own a capable laptop. Otherwise yeah add a capable laptop, or NUC/Mini, or Surface/iPad (touchscreens). Even so you're well below Nord pricing even after Keyscape/Omni (or the even more affordable but brilliant AcousticSamples products for incredible bread & butter + samples/synths/leads/pads/etc. galore. Soooo many virtual choices now). We've come a long way and the latter overall smokes most all-in-one stage boards (Nord, Roland, Yammy, etc) in output/sound and for less $.

 

Where Nord excels compared to a laptop approach is simplicity... in initial setup, in pre-gig sound programming, in at-gig sound tweaking. For example, no generic control surface is as easily used as a board with all those dedicated organ, synth, and effects controls. Yes, the laptop can give you better sounds, but the Nord sounds can be plenty good enough, and the operational trade-off is not insignificant, at least depending on what it is you're trying to do. Of course it doesn't have to be either-or, you can run VSTs from a Nord Stage to get the best of everything, for a price. 😉 

[bennyray]

Thanks for the info will not gig with keyboard at least very seldom. I have a Fantom 7 and MOJO that i gig with which i am close to retiring from doing gigs.

 

I am familar with Nord pianos had one a  few years back and sold it for Fantom probably mistake but the new update on Fantom is nice and finally

 

a piano that i like but the synths sound great with new update. Just want Montage for studio at home the pianos sound really good on videos but can be 

 

misleading. Suprisingly the Fantom is good with the EX update if only the.Rhodes and Wurlils were better turrible i SAY. Still love my Kronos 88

 

[Aynsley Green]

On 12/2/2023 at 6:28 AM, JoJoB3 said:

Yeah, not to steer this too much into PC vs Mac but Nord is very similar to Apple.
But 'most' artists today already own a capable laptop. Otherwise yeah add a capable laptop, or NUC/Mini, or Surface/iPad (touchscreens). Even so you're well below Nord pricing even after Keyscape/Omni (or the even more affordable but brilliant AcousticSamples products for incredible bread & butter + samples/synths/leads/pads/etc. galore. Soooo many virtual choices now). We've come a long way and the latter overall smokes most all-in-one stage boards (Nord, Roland, Yammy, etc) in output/sound and for less $.
* and now you have a capable computer to use 24/7, which every working artist should have.

But, I completely understand the beauty in the stage boards. Big fan of minimizing load in/out time (however, 1 or 2 controllers + laptop/iSurface is super duper nice on your spine vs. larger stage boards.  The VR-09 being a 12lb exception (turrible keybed though but I can deal. Most players can)
That's separate from output however. I think today's virtual surpasses the stage board in output/sound (or can be made to).

Also,  I think Nord stage keybeds are decent (fatar model: sumpin sumpin...because gawd forbid we have some competition in regard), but so are many others now (some even better).
 

 

There was a time that plugins were vastly better than hardware - making the hassle/unpredictability of using a laptop on stage worth it.
That time has passed - the NS4, the Montage M, and the new breed of hardware synths all sound fantastic. Laptops have their uses, but they are such a ballache.
 

I have a NSC4 at work. It is a huge upgrade from the NS2, but still has some weird limitations, which is a bit annoying given the damn thing costs as much as a small car.

GREAT: Organ sound is much improved and controls are well thought-out, Pianos breathe nicely, fast-ish programming, FX very good, flexible-ish FX routing, portability

NOT GREAT: Organ sound is still too aggressive for non-pop and can't really be tweaked, Synth Section is still too polite - it won't replace your analogs, Patch management is still fiddly, Splits can only be where Nord says you can have them (a real problem), 'Scenes' are not Scenes at all (a real problem), Multi-oscillator synth sounds eat up precious Layers (as far as I can tell?).

 

It sounds great, but I'm still getting used to it. I came up on the Japanese boards - I've always found Nord's way of doing things unintuitive.

A great rig would be a YC88 on the bottom for pianos, and NSC4 up top for organ/synths/fiddly bits- neither board too heavy (unlike the Montage M), great actions, great sounds, for around ten grand.

 

[Macsaint777]

2 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

 

A great rig would be a YC88 on the bottom for pianos, and NSC4 up top for organ/synths/fiddly bits- neither board too heavy (unlike the Montage M), great actions, great sounds, for around ten grand.

 

 

 

You just described my exact setup!

[JoJoB3]

20 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

 

There was a time that plugins were vastly better than hardware - making the hassle/unpredictability of using a laptop on stage worth it.
That time has passed 

 

I just feel the majority of this to be incorrect.
*and by majority I mean all of this.