piano samples vs. real piano

[sign]

Still talking about piano's? Here's another difference:

 

Is there any digital/sampled piano with a sostenuto pedal? The pedal that catches the damper(s) of the already played note(s) and sustains these notes? (while other notes are not being sustained)

 

And is there any digital/sampled piano with a una corda pedal that changes the tone of the piano significantly?

 

I think not.

 

Ain't nothing like the real thing baby!

[Duddits]

Originally posted by jmitch:

It's a Steinway Grand, I don't know the exact model, I have to go and look at it again. I think it's a Steinway B. It is in peak condition- practically new, and hasn't been moved everywhere. The mics I intend to use are a pair of Audio Technica AT859 Miniature Unidirectional Elecret Condenser Telescoping Microphones. They sound very flat and neutral and true to the real sound. The frequency response is very good. I plan to go into a Tascam US-428 and record at 24-bit 48khz. The part is a main part in the piece, so good sound is critical. The player is very good. He is classically trained and can play very difficult classical pieces. This is completely my production. I am the producer/engineer. But, we are working together on it.

Sounds good. Obviously, this is a "real piano" situation.

 

Everyone else has been expressing the difficulty of recording pianos, and I share their meow.

 

I have a really nice B, and have made a number of recordings with it, and have done some recording on other pianos as well (although I'm kind of partial to my own).

 

Sometimes I like my results, sometimes I'm frustrated by them, but to be honest, I've never achieved results that I'm completely happy with. I know of some other producers/engineers whose results are better than mine, and while mine are OK, they're just not as good as I'd like.

 

The pop sound is easy enough to achieve with close mic placement, but for a more "real" sound -- I don't know if I've ever heard a recording of a piano that really sounds like what I hear when I play a piano.

 

Da-Hong Seetoo has recorded about as good a sound as I've heard from a piano.

[Albert]

"sign" hit the nail on the head, exactly what I was going to post. It's all about THE PEDALS. No sampled piano currently available can do anything remotely close to what an expert pianist can do with pedalling. And, as the great pianist Anton Rubenstein said: "the pedal is the heart of the piano". (yes, Anton not Artur).

 

For a sampled piano to get close to the real thing a new electronic pedal set needs to be invented, one with three pedals, and with a custom sample set to match. Needless to say, the complexity of modelling or sampling the sound variations necessary for use with the three pedals would be far beyond any current capabilities.

 

The standard keyboard pedal is simply an on/off switch, FAR from what an acoustic piano pedal is. Asking a expert pianist to play piano with an on/off switch pedal is like asking a neolithic cave man to discuss quantum physics.

 

As far as the latest Fantom piano samples being indistiguishable form the real thing, please give me a break. I've got a Fantom right here and it ain't close.

 

There is a place for sampled pianos, and that's buried in a mix of a contemporary pop music, film scores, most any heavily electronic current music production with lots of tracks where the piano is a backing track with maybe some featured moments here and there in context.

 

Any kind of solo, chamber music, featured tracks and you need the real thing. At least I use the real thing, making sure I have a great instrument in an excellent space, well miked, great engineer, etc. It's not so hard to find all that if you are in a large metropolitan area.

[Wewus432]

I don't have anything to add to this except.....go with the real piano, if it's available. Samples are cool, samples are great, but if you have the real thing, why would you not use it?

[Albert]

"sign" hit the nail on the head, exactly what I was going to post. It's all about THE PEDALS. No sampled piano currently available can do anything remotely close to what an expert pianist can do with pedalling. And, as the great pianist Anton Rubenstein said: "the pedal is the heart of the piano". (yes, Anton not Artur).

 

For a sampled piano to get close to the real thing a new electronic pedal set needs to be invented, one with three pedals, and with a custom sample set to match. Needless to say, the complexity of modelling or sampling the sound variations necessary for use with the three pedals would be far beyond any current capabilities.

 

The standard keyboard pedal is simply an on/off switch, FAR from what an acoustic piano pedal is. Asking a expert pianist to play piano with an on/off switch pedal is like asking a neolithic cave man to discuss quantum physics.

 

As far as the latest Fantom piano samples being indistiguishable form the real thing, please give me a break. I've got a Fantom right here and it ain't close.

 

There is a place for sampled pianos, and that's buried in a mix of a contemporary pop music, film scores, most any heavily electronic current music production with lots of tracks where the piano is a backing track with maybe some featured moments here and there in context.

 

Any kind of solo, chamber music, featured tracks and you need the real thing. At least I use the real thing, making sure I have a great instrument in an excellent space, well miked, great engineer, etc. It's not so hard to find all that if you are in a large metropolitan area.

[gangsu]

Hi Guys,

 

I've never posted on your forum before, but just felt compelled to bring you up to speed. Most digital pianos today support half pedalling. The days of the old on/off switch are almost over. The GEM Promega 2 and 3 digital pianos also support an optional 3 pedal unit, consisting of graded sustain, sostenuto, and soft. Pretty cool. It's the big reason I opted for GEM.

 

Sue