Silence about quiet computing?

[Sundown]

Hey all,

 

It could just be my perspective, but one topic I don’t hear much about in DAW circles is quiet computing. There are tons of products out there so there is an audience somewhere, but I would think forums would be filled with conversations about it, whether it’s tactics for quieting the actual computer or building an isolation solution for a PC. In most of the forums I frequent it’s crickets (pun intended). 

 

For many years I parked my tower in an adjacent bedroom closet and drilled a 2” tunnel in the wall to run audio, video, USB cables, etc., but in my current setup I can’t really do that. Cable protocols have also changed quite a bit, so what might have worked ages ago with VGA and PS2 cables might not be as practical with USB and other formats (especially proprietary cables for breakout boxes, etc). 

 

I have a PC Audio Labs Rok Box from 2012 and when I buy a new box from them in a couple of years, I’ll go all-out with their quiet options, but I want to try to make my current unit better, or build a gobo for when I use a condenser mic. Mind you, my current PC isn’t horrendously loud, but a condenser will pick up just about anything.

 

To keep costs in line in light of a new PC on the horizon, I’ll probably start with a passively cooled video card (about $85) and maybe swap-out my case fan (about $35). If I opt for a passive PSU, it will get expensive as I would likely need a new tower (given that my current PSU functions as the intake fan). I will be adding a small SSD primarily for boot speed, but that should cut-down on some of the hard drive noise (especially given how chatty Windows is with page files and caching). 

 

Anyways, I just find it interesting that this isn’t a bigger concern or topic in DAW circles. 

 

Todd

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anderton]

20 hours ago, Sundown said:

I have a PC Audio Labs Rok Box from 2012 and when I buy a new box from them in a couple of years, I’ll go all-out with their quiet options, but I want to try to make my current unit better, or build a gobo for when I use a condenser mic. Mind you, my current PC isn’t horrendously loud, but a condenser will pick up just about anything.

 

There's a BIG difference between my 2021 PCAL computer and your 2012! The drives are solid-state (except for a video data drive), so there's no hard drive whine or hard drive fan. So all that's left is the overall cooling fan, and its sound level is minimal. It kicks up only when I'm rendering long videos, but of course, then I'm not recording vocals anyway 

 

Another trick is using a ribbon mic and pointing the null at whatever your dominant noise source is. I have a Cloud JRS mic and I don't recall the specs offhand, but the null point with a ribbon mic essentially cancels out anything in its path.

 

For the occasional $%&#@#$ airplane flyover, I have Waves Clarity, and iZotope's noise reduction to get rid of any residual preamp hiss. So at this point, at least for me, there's no need to put the computer off in a closet or other room.

 

You might want to contact PC Audio Labs, and ask if they can perhaps recommend some kind of acoustic treatment to line the inside of your computer. Or maybe just replacing a drive or two will make a big difference.

[KuruPrionz]

My 2020 M1 Mac Mini has cooling fans but I've never heard them. The hard drive is SSD, I have a couple of SSD externals but even the Lacie "spinners" I have as externals are nearly silent. The rubber shock case might be helping there. 

 

Now my 2014 Mac Book Pro? That does get a good bit of fan noise going if you push it and since it is also the keyboard it sits right on the desk. 

I have a Shure KSM8 that I use often for recording and I just aim the back of the mic at anything noisy in the room (which is almost nothing, mostly). It's a true cardioid and does not pick up from the back side. If something is really loud it will bounce off the walls and work it's way in. 

 

I keep my fingers crossed when using condenser mics and I've found that mic'ing acoustic guitars fairly close provides enough signal to noise ratio to pretty much null any external noise. That said, stuff happens... 

[KenElevenShadows]

My iMac doesn't seem to be any sort of noise that sensitive condenser microphones pick up even when they are only two feet away. Just never thought about it.

 

Most of the time, if I am recording anything of any consequence, they are in the other room anyway. Yeah. The other room where I have to always remember to turn off the refrigerator, A/C or heat, and hope that my neighbors aren't real loud.

[dmitch57]

I have a recent iMac with an SSD, in a single-room studio. I never hear the iMac when tracking or mixing; sometimes the fan revs when bouncing. Works for me.

[Stokely]

It was a pretty big deal on gearspace about the Mac Studio fans making noise.  Big giant thread!

My Macbook pro fan can get going but part of that is that I leave it close--I need to crack it open a bit.  It currently sits just under my desk-arm-mounted monitor so I may need to move things around.  As others have noted, the Minis seems to be very quiet indeed.

I'm not in a super quiet studio--it's a home office complete with occasional street noise and AC-- to begin with so a relatively quiet computer fan probably isn't a worry for me.   I tend to use headphones more than my speakers as currently my room isn't treated (as discussed in my  DIY thread)

Apparently some of the new plugins can do some wizardry as well.  Not just for noise removal, you can split tracks (I remain dubious!) and the like.  Heck I don't understand how my Bose earbuds manage to cancel out sound as well as they do...not just steady noise either!

[RABid]

I've seen and been involved in the occasional thread on Keyboard Corner. It does not come up often because people like me only change computers every 5+ years. There has been a lot of talk from YouTube providers about the M1 line, and the negligible difference between the Air with no fan and the Pro which occasionally runs the fan. The sound of a squeaky chair or sitting a ceramic cup down on a wooden desk creates a lot more noise than my computer.

[Sundown]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

@Craig - I’ll talk to PCAL and see if they can recommend some items. I think changing the video card makes sense at a minimum, as HDMI is a pretty efficient cable and I can get a passive 4-head unit for about $85.

 

Changing the PSU would be tougher, given the intake challenge in my tower. I can probably easily swap-out the exhaust fan and perhaps the CPU cooler if necessary.

 

Todd

[Nathanael_I]

Current high quality pc power supplies hardly ever turn their fans on - especially for light work like a DAW. (I have a passively cooled power supply. It has no fans). I haven’t had spinning drives for seven years at least. Water cooling went from noisier than air cooling to just as silent. Big Noctua air coolers are virtually silent.  Cooling any modern 125W performance CPU is pretty easy. DAWs tax real time, but generally only run 30-40% actual utilization. My MBP M1 Max is as almost as powerful as the DAW box and is completely silent. 
 

I’m with Craig, my DAW is hardly present acoustically.  When the video box renders, it gets wound up, but the DAW is very quiet. A small bit of iZotope RX10 removes the noise floor of the room, preamp noise, etc.  I have some of the finest condenser mics currently available, and I have no issue. 
 

if you haven’t upgraded since 2012, you are in for a treat. Buy any Apple product and call it done. Audio rides for free on any modern system for any practical purpose. 8k video can load down a high end current system, but even multiple 4K streams are handled without drama on a $600 CPU and a mid grade GPU.  We live in amazing times. 

[Anderton]

11 hours ago, Sundown said:

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

@Craig - I’ll talk to PCAL and see if they can recommend some items. I think changing the video card makes sense at a minimum, as HDMI is a pretty efficient cable and I can get a passive 4-head unit for about $85.

 

Maybe spend your money on iZotope Elements or Waves Clarity to hold you over until you get a new PC. You'll be shocked at the improvement in a 2022 PCAL machine, as well as how easily it is to customize it for your needs. Also the way Intel handles cores these days is really smart when you need lots of DAW throughput.

[Sundown]

2 hours ago, Anderton said:

 

Maybe spend your money on iZotope Elements or Waves Clarity to hold you over until you get a new PC. You'll be shocked at the improvement in a 2022 PCAL machine, as well as how easily it is to customize it for your needs. Also the way Intel handles cores these days is really smart when you need lots of DAW throughput.

 

Yeah, I can’t wait to get a new unit … I was looking at the floating point charts for my processor versus the current offerings (not to mention quadrupling RAM from 16 GB to 64 GB), and it’s about a ten-fold climb in processing power. As UAD goes native and as soft synths and reverbs pull more juice, having a multi-core CPU that can handle the load would be great. I’m still of course making music, but to have no worries about bandwidth would be great. It’s going to set me back about $3,800 for the tower, and I’ll probably get a new curved, wide display to replace my two units. Probably $5K-$5,500 all-in.

 

Todd

[Bill Heins]

I built a new system last year-

 

ASUS ProArt Z690-Creator WiFi 6E LGA 1700(Intel 12th Gen) ATX Content Creator Motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5,2X Thunderbolt 4,10G&2.5G LAN,4xM.2,Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen2x2 Type-C Ports)

 

Intel Core i9-12900K Desktop Processor 16 (8P+8E) Cores up to 5.2 GHz Unlocked LGA1700 600 Series Chipset 125W

 

SAMSUNG 980 SSD 1TB M.2 NVMe Interface Internal Solid State Drive with V-NAND Technology for Gaming, Heavy Graphics, Full Power Mode, MZ-V8V1T0B/AM(C Drive)

 

Corsair Vengeance DDR5 64GB (2x32GB) 5600MHz C40 Intel Optimized Desktop Memory (Onboard Voltage Regulation, Custom XMP 3.0 Profiles, Compact Form-Factor, Solid Aluminum Heatspreader) Black (2x for a total 128GB)

 

MSI Gaming GeForce GTX 1660 Super 192-bit HDMI/DP 6GB GDRR6 HDCP Support DirectX 12 Dual Fan VR Ready OC Graphics Card (GTX 1660 Super Gaming X)

 

Corsair RMX Series (2021), RM1000x, 1000 Watt, Gold, Fully Modular Power Supply

 

Noctua NH-U12S Redux, High Performance CPU Cooler with NF-P12 redux-1700 PWM 120mm Fan (Grey)

 

Thermaltake Core V71 Tempered Glass Edition E-ATX Full Tower Tt LCS Certified Gaming Computer Case CA-1B6-00F1WN-04

 

MOTU MIDI Express XT USB Interface

 

Pioneer BDR-212V 16X Blu-ray DVD CD Internal Burner Drive Bundle with 6X 25GB AZO LTH BD-R 50 Discs + Software + Cable + Mounting Screws

 

PreSonus Quantum 2626 26x26 Thunderbolt 3 Audio Interface M1 Chip Compatible

 

SAMSUNG 980 PRO SSD 2TB PCIe NVMe Gen 4 Gaming M.2 Internal Solid State Hard Drive Memory Card, Maximum Speed, Thermal Control, MZ-V8P2T0B(audio scratch drive)

 

Also a bunch of Midi, Audio, and HDMI cables...thermal paste and a PC toolkit(standoffs, assorted screws, washers, etc.) I did pick up a USB drive of Win 11 Pro too!

 

I carried pver 4 sata drives from the old computer for internal storage and added an 8tb external drive...think I have like 19tb of space

 

Right now I can stick with the 4 sata drives and add 2 more ssd drives or add 4 more sata drives and only one more ssd. I already had a 4 monitor setup so I didn't have to buy monitors...I'm only using 3 of them now anyways! This is my third build and it's the only way for me now...I enjoy picking out what I want and putting it together myself.

 

Bill

 

[Bill Heins]

Oh, you can hardly tell the computer is on other than the lights

 

Bill

[Sundown]

1 hour ago, Bill Heins said:

I built a new system last year-

 

ASUS ProArt Z690-Creator WiFi 6E LGA 1700(Intel 12th Gen) ATX Content Creator Motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5,2X Thunderbolt 4,10G&2.5G LAN,4xM.2,Front Panel USB 3.2 Gen2x2 Type-C Ports)

 

Intel Core i9-12900K Desktop Processor 16 (8P+8E) Cores up to 5.2 GHz Unlocked LGA1700 600 Series Chipset 125W

 

SAMSUNG 980 SSD 1TB M.2 NVMe Interface Internal Solid State Drive with V-NAND Technology for Gaming, Heavy Graphics, Full Power Mode, MZ-V8V1T0B/AM(C Drive)

 

Corsair Vengeance DDR5 64GB (2x32GB) 5600MHz C40 Intel Optimized Desktop Memory (Onboard Voltage Regulation, Custom XMP 3.0 Profiles, Compact Form-Factor, Solid Aluminum Heatspreader) Black (2x for a total 128GB)

 

MSI Gaming GeForce GTX 1660 Super 192-bit HDMI/DP 6GB GDRR6 HDCP Support DirectX 12 Dual Fan VR Ready OC Graphics Card (GTX 1660 Super Gaming X)

 

Corsair RMX Series (2021), RM1000x, 1000 Watt, Gold, Fully Modular Power Supply

 

Noctua NH-U12S Redux, High Performance CPU Cooler with NF-P12 redux-1700 PWM 120mm Fan (Grey)

 

Thermaltake Core V71 Tempered Glass Edition E-ATX Full Tower Tt LCS Certified Gaming Computer Case CA-1B6-00F1WN-04

 

MOTU MIDI Express XT USB Interface

 

Pioneer BDR-212V 16X Blu-ray DVD CD Internal Burner Drive Bundle with 6X 25GB AZO LTH BD-R 50 Discs + Software + Cable + Mounting Screws

 

PreSonus Quantum 2626 26x26 Thunderbolt 3 Audio Interface M1 Chip Compatible

 

SAMSUNG 980 PRO SSD 2TB PCIe NVMe Gen 4 Gaming M.2 Internal Solid State Hard Drive Memory Card, Maximum Speed, Thermal Control, MZ-V8P2T0B(audio scratch drive)

 

Also a bunch of Midi, Audio, and HDMI cables...thermal paste and a PC toolkit(standoffs, assorted screws, washers, etc.) I did pick up a USB drive of Win 11 Pro too!

 

I carried pver 4 sata drives from the old computer for internal storage and added an 8tb external drive...think I have like 19tb of space

 

Right now I can stick with the 4 sata drives and add 2 more ssd drives or add 4 more sata drives and only one more ssd. I already had a 4 monitor setup so I didn't have to buy monitors...I'm only using 3 of them now anyways! This is my third build and it's the only way for me now...I enjoy picking out what I want and putting it together myself.

 

Bill

 

 

That’s a serious rig, Bill …

 

And encouraging that it’s so quiet. 

 

My first true DAW was a turnkey system from Soundchaser out of California (no longer in business). It was a 700 MHz P3 on a 440bx motherboard with 768 MB of RAM (the max at the time). My audio drive was a 10K RPM SCSI unit, my burner was SCSI, and the boot drive and DVD-ROM was IDE. I don’t think I even had a dedicated sample drive as sample streaming wasn’t a thing yet (other than Gigasampler which I didn’t own).

 

I built my second DAW which was Athlon-based and a big step-up in power. It was a capable machine at the time but in 2012 I went back to turnkey systems with PC Audio Labs. I still like computers and find them intriguing, but I don’t follow the technology closely anymore and I love that I can order a unit and just run. But having built that Athlon, I can still do mods comfortably and confidently when needed.

 

Todd

 

 

[Bill Heins]

I still enjoy building my own systems but when I don't I'll look for a good builder who understands the needs for audio and video productions

 

Bill

[mcgoo]

My last 3 DAWs were built by Purrrfect Audio. The 1st one was built in 2007. Each one has been silent. The tech's been around for a while, but for PCs, not really something you could find on an off the shelf system. 

[Anderton]

19 hours ago, mcgoo said:

My last 3 DAWs were built by Purrrfect Audio.

Jim Roseberry of Purrrfect Audio is another guy who really knows what he's doing. If I wasn't so satisfied with PC Audio Labs, Jim would be my go-to guy. In fact I almost went to him for my most recent computer because I like to support as many cool companies as possible, but all things being equal, PC Audio Labs being in Nashville meant if anything catastrophic went wrong, there wouldn't be any shipping involved and I could get an instant turnaround.

[mcgoo]

1 hour ago, Anderton said:

Jim Roseberry of Purrrfect Audio is another guy who really knows what he's doing.

 

Yes he does. Back around 2006, I became a loyal customer after he solved a problem I was having with a very expensive high powered custom built daw (from a local computer builder) in about 5 minutes. It would crash every time I launched Gigastudio and nobody could figure out why. I scheduled a half hour phone support session with him. I described all the symptoms and he asked my system specs. He then said, "I'm sorry greg, this isn't something Tascam acknowledges, but Gigastudio will not work in a dual processor machine." Right then, I recognized the value of dealing with someone who was both a complete computer geek and an active working musician. 

[Stokely]

That new mac mini with an M2 chip starting at 599 is looking really, really good to me.  It has no fan iirc so it pretty much has to be silent   Hopefully it doesn't heat up like a small star!   Down side--dongles due to lack of ports.  Oh the dongles and hubs that I must use.  Hmm, "dongles and hubs", not a bad band name.
 

[Nathanael_I]

12 hours ago, Stokely said:

That new mac mini with an M2 chip starting at 599 is looking really, really good to me.  It has no fan iirc so it pretty much has to be silent   Hopefully it doesn't heat up like a small star!   Down side--dongles due to lack of ports.  Oh the dongles and hubs that I must use.  Hmm, "dongles and hubs", not a bad band name.
 

I found a 16 port rack mount USB3 hub from a UK reseller.   Brilliant.  One cable to the DAW, and everything plugs in.  Keyboards, iLoks, Steinberg keys, mouse, breath controller, you name it. 

[Stokely]

That sounds nice.  I have a rack-size desk riser (where my Crown power amp sits) where that could go!

Argh Apple and their memory prices, the mini goes to 899 if you want 16GB.   Still not a bad price for an excellent machine but man, 300 bucks for 8GB of ram....