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Casio CT-S500 thoughts


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This is a long one, so I'll cut to the chase: This thing is pretty brilliant. With that out of the way...

 

I rarely start threads about boards I get, because there's usually pre-existing discussion, and I'd just as soon add to that. But even though this board has been mentioned here a bunch, I couldn't actually find a thread specifically for it, so here goes.

 

First, what drew me to a board like this in the first place? Picking up from my last paragraph in the post at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/180136-keyboard-for-soloduo-ceremonycocktail-hour/?do=findComment&comment=2929586 - Super-light and small boards are useful in numerous situations, including travel, casual jams, rehearsals, and gigs where circumstances prompt a rig--or a component of a rig--be as small and/or light as possible (having to move a piece between different locations during a gig for different parts of an event, needing something you can set up in 5 minutes, needing something you can play in a tiny amount of space, taking a gig that involves a substantial walking distance or spiral staircase, etc... I've had gigs with other transport limitations like having to bring everything in via a small elevator or a provided golf cart or having to hand-carry everything through a ferry ride). So I do have numerous small boards, each with different compromises. This 10-pounder seemed to have the potential to have the fewest compromises...

 

... 61-full size keys (some of my alternatives have mini-keys or are 49 keys or less)

... battery operation for potential fastest setup

... strap pins as well as being small enough to sit on a lap, so I may not need a stand

... a wide range of different kinds of sounds (some of my small stuff is specifically synthy)

... enough MIDI functionality that I should be able to grab a sound from an iPhone if needed, including having an audio input to get that sound back into the board

... speakers which could be adequate for some uses

 

I have boards with various combinations of those things, but nothing with all of them. My questions would be primarily about the action, the sounds, and the ease of patch changing.

 

1) Action

 

I was cautiously optimistic. I had liked the action of my XW-P1, though I subsequently discovered at a store that the XW-P1/XW-G1 actions could vary quite a bit, from being smooth and nice feeling to being clacky and cheap feeling. I don't know if it was manufacturing tolerances, parts sourced from different suppliers, or what. But that experience showed me that a given model could be good, but another of the same didn't have to be. Still, besides a personally good experience before, I was also encouraged by not seeing complaints of awful keys in any of the more recent Casio 61s.

 

So I took it out of the box and felt the keys. First impression... well, not as good as I'd hoped, but not terrible. A bit springier than I'd like, and definitely getting decidedly stiff toward the rear. But then I turned it on. Wow, it's amazing what good design/programming can do. I really enjoyed playing it. Even piano was nicely expressive for a non-hammer board... and yes, somehow, even toward the back, the keys played surprisingly well. Whatever extra resistance there was seems to somehow have been compensated for, because I was able to play it very naturally, without much fuss. (This is also true on the Kurzweil PC4-7, where it definitely gets stiffer toward the back, yet somehow remains well playable.) The Casio is far better here than, for example, the keys of the lower Rolands like the Juno DS61 or Korgs like the King Korg (even though I quite like those boards in many ways). And in fact, for piano, it plays far better than my 5x pricier Roland Fantom-07. At any price, this feels like an above average semi-weighted action. At its price, it's ridiculously good.

 

2) Sounds

 

In just a brief eval, I'm pretty impressed. I knew it had some things I'd like from the CT-S1 demos I'd heard (since the board includes all the CT-S1 sounds), but I wasn't sure what to expect from the rest. I liked a lot of the sounds in some higher end Casios, but I didn't know if those were making it down to the lower end. But it turns out the CT-S500 has really nice sounds in pretty much all the categories. I saw very few significant gaps. There are far more expensive boards where I have more frequently had to say "I can't believe I can't find a decent such-and-such in this board" or sounds really need editing to make them usable, but on the Casio, virtually all the sounds I'd need sounded just fine right out of the box, often impressively so, and the range of sounds is thorough (more so than, say, the Yamaha CP73/88 where some not uncommon "secondary" sounds are totally absent). I'm not saying every sound is as good as what I have in higher end boards, but even the ones that aren't are still good usable sounds as is. 

 

But of course I can still quibble. I could wish for a more dramatic, faster acting sfz brass. I'd like it to have had some mellotron strings to join the mellotron flute. Some more built-in articulations in a couple of the sounds would have been nice (but it has some really nice ones, like velocity based brass falls, doits, and shakes). And while it has a good variety of organs that may often suffice, they are still rompler organs with the attendant limitations, and I haven't figured out yet how to change Leslie speed. There are some MIDI functions I have not really looked at, and I'm hoping one could easily integrate, say, VB3m from your smartphone. But while organ may be a weak point, if you're not doing something organ-centric, there's plenty here you may at least be able to get by on, there are usable organ sounds here (though again, I'm not sure how rotary speed changing would sound).

 

As a bonus, there are quite a few single sounds that are, themselves, layers, so you can get a lot of the typical layered combinations you might want without even having to set them up as layers. There are also (as has been mentioned in other threads) the Advanced Tones which do various other nice tricks. AND... there's good "patch remain" where you can hold a sound, change to a new sound, and not have the old sound cut out (though you may hear a momentary effects glitch, and the old sound may take on the fx characteristics of the new), and it works even holding through multiple patch changes. More on this later.

 

3) User Interface and Patch Selection

 

When the CT-S1 first came out, I was tempted by the sounds/design/portability, but ultimately I didn't think I had enough use for it... too many limitations, too few times I'd likely end up using it. When the CT-S500 was announced, with all the same sounds/functions plus a lot more, I was more intrigued, but worried it would lose the appealing simplicity of the CT-S1, but really, it's still a very cleanly designed board in its operation. User interface overall is pretty straight-forward, and also somewhat customizable. You can put the 5 functions you need to access most frequently/quickly on the main screen for instant navigation to them, which is enormously helpful (and again, more on that later). It's not a deeply editable board, but the things you can alter include useful choices, largely pretty easily and logically accessed. (Though I haven't yet addressed removing an effect I don't want, which I'd like to do on one of the Electric Grand patches.)

 

But here's where I hit a big negative... but I'll tell you in advance, this has a happy ending, so don't get scared! 

 

At first, patch navigation for more than a handful of sounds looked to be so limited that I felt that, if I kept it, it would only be useful for a some portion of my potential uses for a board like this, because its ability to quickly access numerous sounds on the fly was minimal, and this is something I often need. For example, I could be playing, say, a piano sound, and decide I want to call up sax for the next part. Navigating from piano to sax isn't too bad, as scrolling goes... there are category shortcuts to get you close to the sound you're looking for. The problem is, you can't keep playing your current sound while navigating to find your next sound, because your sound will change to every sound you scroll through as you scroll! I wish there were a master setting that would allow you to navigate through the sounds, where the sound wouldn't actually take effect until you hit the Tone button after settling on the one you want, or something like that. (Kurzweil has that selectable option, for example, and Nord had it in some models, they called it Pending Load.) Right now, the only way to switch between non-adjacent sounds without the sound actually changing to every sound you pass through is to create Registrations, but that limits you to 64 total possibilities (of individual sounds and split/layered combinations), which must be chosen and set up in advance to cover whatever needs might arise, plus they cannot be named (you'd have to put a hard copy reference somewhere), and there's not really any logical way to quickly navigate them (e.g. you can't go to your sax category as you can with ordinary patch selection).

 

So what's the happy ending? With the system update that came out a bit over two months ago, they added two crucial things: The ability to change upper/lower/layered keyboard-playable sounds via MIDI Program Change (something I'll get back to), and the ability to select Registrations via MIDI Program Change. So (as I recently posted in the Casio forum in a thread about the firmware upgrade), for Registrations, you can use any of a number of MIDI apps (e.g. Set List Maker) to create a scrollable list of 64 Registrations with their song titles (or whatever other way you might like to describe them), configured to send the appropriate MIDI command. Place the smartphone somewhere convenient, and boom, you've got a touchscreen with a scrollable list of your 64 now named registrations. Just tap the one you want to select it. With bluetooth, you don't even have to run a cable. And in the case of Set List Maker, you can even easily re-order your 64 sounds. Your list isn't tied to presenting the Registrations in the order they are on the board... if you have a gig where you want a certain subset of them all next to each other so you can get to any of that bunch without having to scroll, you can do that, too.

 

But even better, you don't even need to use Registrations if you just want to change from one full-keyboard sound to another. You can leave the 64 Registration locations dedicated to your split/layer combinations, and for the single sound stuff, take advantage of the other system update enhancement I mentioned. You can change from one sound to another without having the board switch to every sound in between, by sending a Program Change to the "Upper Tone 1" channel to immediately access any sound you have created an on-screen button for on your phone/tablet. By putting your most used sounds all on the first screen, you also gain the benefit of being able to access them more quickly than you can by scrolling the internal screen, even with the built-in shortcuts to jump by category.

 

Which brings me to what I thought was going to be another stumbling block, which I'll illustrate by example: If you're playing a split (say, LH bass), and you want to change your RH sound for the part coming up, you seemingly can't do it. Once you do a split, subsequent tone selection only affects your left hand sound. Of course, if you need to change a sound mid-song, it's more likely that you're going to want to change your RH sound than your left (e.g. for a lead). But once you split, the sound selected for possible change appears to be fixed at the LH sound. I wish that, when playing splits/layers (which could mean as many as 3 sounds--a lower sound below the split point and two sounds above), the Tone button would toggle/rotate you through the 2 or 3 playing sounds as the "active for change" one, letting you change any one of the parts at any time. But, there are actually two solutions to this.

 

First, as I just described, you can now use an app can to send the Program Change just for the one sound you're playing, OR just one part of a split/layered combination. So once you set this up, you can change sounds of any part at any time... there's no problem keeping your LH bass going while you happily change RH sounds from your phone/tablet as needed.

 

But also, if you want a way to do this without using a phone/tablet (or having to do the initial setup that approach requires), there's actually a built-in solution for this one! I mentioned how you can customize the top level menus. Well, you can actually have 3 of the 5 definable buttons set up as Upper Tone 1, Upper Tone 2, and Lower Tone. Once you make that definition, you have quick one button access to change whichever of the split/layered sounds you want. (I still wish you could select the sound-to-change some other way, like by hitting the Tone button as I said, just because it would be nice to have these 3 front page button locations available for other things.)

 

I've set up some of this with MIDI Designer on an iPad, and it's kind of like having the touchscreen facilities of a MODX/Kronos/Fantom in terms of letting you quickly change your sounds. And getting back to the patch remain... that continues to work just fine with this remote patch selection, which actually makes that a fully functional feature. Change directly from any sound to any other sound (or sound combination), and nothing drops out.

 

4) Bonus Points - other cool things

 

... If you want to use an iPad (for sound selection as above, or even just for lyrics/charts), a music stand is included, which can be convenient if it's an only (or a "top") board, But there's also a good deal of panel space where the speakers are. I wouldn't want to block the speakers if I were using them, but there's a menu option to turn the speakers off, and then this is just panel space. Obviously an easy place to put a smartphone, if that's your device of choice. But here's the little magic extra bit for those of us who like larger screens: I placed my 12.9 iPad Pro over the speakers, and the magnets of the speakers locked it down solid! At least if using it flat (i.e. not wearing it like a keytar), just lay the iPad down, and you're set. No mount, no velcro. Maybe this varies with the particular iPad, as some iPads are specifically designed for magnetic attachments of more stuff (i.e. not just the cover, but maybe keyboard/pencil). But I was surprised when the thing practically snapped itself onto the keyboard. (Google tells me there is no risk to the iPad if used around magnets.)

 

... Hit the power button, and the board is ready to go in about 3 seconds! (And it's also nice to have a front panel power button, instead of having to reach around to the back and feel for a button.)

 

... If you're doing a split on a 61 (sometimes a necessary evil), it's very handy to be able to do things like quickly shift the octave of your right hand sound (since it may only have about 3 octaves to play in, and your part may prompt you to want to go lower or higher). Again, you can customize the functions of the buttons on your top screen. I added the "Octave Shift" button, and with that tap, I can select which part(s) I want to shift the octave of (nice touch here... there's an option to shift your two layered right hand parts together, leaving only the left hand part in place), so I can pretty quickly make the desired octave change on the fly. (And a lot better than the boards that require you to dial in a setting of 12 semitones for an octave shift!)

 

... A recent thread about the Refaces veered into the topic of creating really compact and light multi-board rigs. I've been playing with this idea, and this is a very usable bottom. If you can manage with just 61 keys for your piano, this is quite playable, and is about as small and light as you'll find, and its control panel is still pretty shallow so a stacked board doesn't have to be far. I'll try to post some photos of some appealing combinations.

 

... Oh yeah, it has arranger-style drum accompaniment. I've done some duo/trio gigs where I'm playing LH bass over a beat, and the beat's right here! Complete with fills/variations. Combine this with the options I mentioned for being able to select your RH sounds on the fly, and you can keep your drums and LH bass going while you vary your RH sound as needed, which can be very useful.

 

... You could conceivably be playing 3 keyboard parts along with a drum rhythm, and may need adjust some of their volumes against the others. We don't have a set of 4 controls to use as volume knobs/sliders on this one. But again, the definable front page comes to the rescue. And in fact, the menu option we want is actually already on the front page by default... it's the Balance button. Tap that, and you get 4 buttons labeled for the 4 parts... tap the part whose volume you want to adjust, and use the wheel to bring it up or down. This is an example of a smart design that manages to let you do almost anything you need to do pretty quickly and easily, despite a small screen and small number of controls.
 

... Apparently, you can even load some samples into it. I haven't looked into that yet.

 

5) Other things I'd like to see

 

Yes, not being able to name Registrations is a real head-scratcher. Having to rely on a printout (or your own memory?) is archaic, and names are useful also just to confirm that you're on the sound you think you're on, before you actually start playing. The board even already has a file naming interface in it, it uses it for naming Setups (up to four savable sets of master settings), so the basic mechanism for it is already there. How they could realize that having Setups named, without realizing it would be equally useful to have Registrations named, is hard to fathom. (Ideally, a registration screen would show you 4 names corresponding to the registrations currently under the 4 selection buttons, but that might not be the easiest thing to find room for without some more extensive re-working.)

 

Getting back to patch selection... I'd like to be able to mark my favorites (or my non), and then have an option when scrolling through sounds, to scroll through all sounds, or just my Favorites. Often, I may have no interest in seeing half the sounds, and navigation would be quicker if I didn't have to scroll through them all the time. I might want to see all the sounds when working with the board at home, but restrict to a smaller list actually during gigs/jams, for example. If you're using a phone/tablet, again, you can address this, but not everyone is going to be using the board that way. (Even I could do a lot of what I'd use the board for without bothering with setting up the phone/tablet enhancements.) So while it's great that a phone/tablet can solve some big problems people may have, I wouldn't want that to be an excuse for Casio to not streamline the operation of the board itself. Hopefully more firmware updates are planned.
 

Here's a nitpick... Casio has an aversion to clearly labeling their back panel connections. If you look at the back panel, they've gone to the trouble and expense of silkscreening their logo and the model number, would it really have been that much more trouble to also silkscreen the jack labels, instead of leaving us to identify them by raised black plastic on a black background? Okay, I don't know enough about the process, maybe it really would have been tricky to silkscreen small lettering that high or that low around the recessed panel. But heck, I'd settle for a peel-off decal. I mean, seriously, look at this...

 

CT-S500_7.jpg

That would be a pain for anyone to connect to, not just stage musicians who I understand they're probably not really targeting. So yeah, especially for those of us here who may have to connect to these on a poorly lit stage or under some other keyboard, you're going to want to make yourself some labels. 

 

If they did want to make another version of this with additional appeal to stage musicians who don't necessarily always need all the smallest-size/keytar benefits, I think there could be sales to be had with a version of this that added another octave of keys, 5-pin MIDI, aftertouch, and since there would be all that extra panel space above the extra keys, a 9-slider panel as numerous other Casios have had, which could provide more real-time control of some of the parameters or could be programmed to send MIDI CCs. With the CT-S500 at $379, I'm guessing that would be do-able for $699, and would be a nice competitor to the Numa Compact 2/2X. If they could actually include some semblance of an organ engine (as they've done on WK-7600, XW-P1, MZ-X500), so much the better... though then I'd also ask for assignable aux outs, you know why. (Though I'm a fan of assignable out for LH bass, too, not just organ.) Four front panel registration+menu select buttons is a bit skimpy, but I wouldn't expect any redesign there. And it's not like there aren't other boards with only 4 registration select buttons (or whatever the company calls their equivalent)... see Roland VR-09/VR730, Nord Electro 6, Vox Continental... and those Numas rely strictly on a scroll wheel for that.  And at least there are still the phone/tablet workarounds.

 

Anyway, it's a keeper. I expect I'll be back with updates...

 

 

 

 

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Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Thanks for the comprehensive report, I have read it as a tea-time after lunch reading and has been a nice introduction to a model I didn't know at all.

 

Incidentally, I use a CASIO CT-X5000 on rehearsals (although have just got a MODX6+ which will replace it) and also as a multi-purpose keyboard for friends meetings and casual playing (which lately I am doing a lot!). I wonder if the sounds on the CT-S500 have anything to do with the ones on the CT-X5000, which uses the AiX engine. I find most of the tones in the CT-X pretty decent for a cheap keyboard.

 

Again, thanks for the report! 👍🏻

 

Jose

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Scott - 

 

We’re just beginning to dig in to the S500’s big brother the CT-S1000V over in the Gearlab.  I believe the S500 is essentially the same instrument, just without the vocal synthesis.  Would love to have you join the discussion over there on any section you think is appropriate.

 

dB

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:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

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Thank you for your well-detailed thoughts on the CT-S500, Scott. I upgraded to one of these last summer, as I'd previously been using a CT-S400 as a second keyboard and simple controller in my teaching space.  It's also been very helpful when traveling.  The keyboard connects smoothly with my iPad for practice, putting writing ideas together and so forth. The cases initially recommended left too much extra internal space, but I found a small rifle case that fits the instrument almost like a second skin; perfect for travel. It serves as a great take-anywhere piano, with several additional benefits. The fingers-to-ears playing connection is smoother than the piano tones in a couple much higher priced keyboards I've owned.

 

I haven't performed the most recent system update, but will be doing that soon.  I currently have a different synth in the teaching space for another project, so the CT-S500 is now at home. Last year I found a 3rd-party set of Registrations that has been useful; lots of strings, orchestral blends, a useful TW organ or two. Though I do find it aggravating that the rotor speed cannot be assigned to the pedal input, and have to twist a knob instead.  Easily fixed when using B3-X for iOS; but if taking the keyboard out for a 'lite' jam session/open mic, sometimes I just want basic plug 'n play.  I did assign a few additional sounds (Pop brass section, a tuned percussion/strings layer...) within the Registrations area and took the keyboard out last summer as a second-tier for a yacht-rock / Buffett tribute. The brass section sound worked very well, and the instrument held its own in the mix.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, EB5AGV said:

I wonder if the sounds on the CT-S500 have anything to do with the ones on the CT-X5000, which uses the AiX engine.

The CT-S500 is AiX as well, so I would guess there's lots of overlap, though same sound engine doesn't always equate to same sounds. The CT-S1 is also AiX, and while all of its sounds are in the CT-S500, I believe that some of them were not on the earlier models.

 

1 hour ago, allan_evett said:

I found a small rifle case that fits the instrument almost like a second skin

Might you have a model # or link? I hadn't even thought about a case yet, I'll have to check my "inventory" but, yeah, I might not have anything with a reasonable fit, this being as compact as it is for a 61.

 

1 hour ago, allan_evett said:

The fingers-to-ears playing connection is smoother than the piano tones in a couple much higher priced keyboards I've owned.

Yeah, that surprised me as well!

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 

Might you have a model # or link? I hadn't even thought about a case yet, I'll have to check my "inventory" but, yeah, I might not have anything with a reasonable fit, this being as compact as it is for a 61.

 

 

 

I checked on that. Bought the case in December of 2021, on eBay.  Unfortunately the order info shows it unavailable from the seller.  Guessing they made a buy on a block of these then sold all of them.  The case is in my garage, so I'll check when I go out to see what model info might be on it.  

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'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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J See got his hands on one last summer...

 

I picked up a CT-300 a while back as a cheap battery operated (I bought a stack of re-chargeables to go with it) for ultra light carry.  Good enough to work out some lines, changes, feed a singer their notes.  The action is good (for a casiotone level instrument).  No problem triggering notes all the way to the back of the keys.  Texture is better than expected.   But, I should have waited just one more season as the very next release was the CTS1 and now all these entry level keyboards have much better sounds.  $379 for the CTS500 is a very fair price!

 

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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18 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Might you have a model # or link? I hadn't even thought about a case yet, I'll have to check my "inventory" but, yeah, I might not have anything with a reasonable fit, this being as compact as it is for a 61.

 

I got this rifle bag and it’s a nice tight fit with extra pockets for pedals and cables. There is a divider that is intended to divide the main compartment for two rifles. But  it is anchored by velcro and can be moved to top for extra padding. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9W2KX5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_GA844A5KMH1TW6V27ZZ8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

I can’t speak to the durability with any data;  I only used it a few times on vacation.

Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact

www.stickmanor.com

There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

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as i've mentioned on here many times, i have the ct-s1000v (with the stupid vocorder thing). was going to buy a 500, but found an open box 1000 for dirt cheap.  love it.  i also have the rifle bag mentioned above. however....if you look and amazon carefully (i.e. check measurements, etc) a ton of folks sell it under different names.  i think i got mine for 29 bucks instead of 65.  anyhoo, the ct-s500/1000 together with an ipad  and camelot pro is a wonderful thing.

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AnotherScott,
Many thanks for your higly informed and informative review!! I find this kind of things extremely helpful.

 

About clearly labeling the back panel connection, as a DIY workaround, I put some white paint on it and then clean the remainings.

Unfortunately, I used Tippex!! My bad. I am sure with acrilic (water solvable) or some more suited kind of paint I would have achieved much better results. Anyway, it makes the job. 😀 🤪😏

 

Paint.jpg

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3 hours ago, Frenetos said:

AnotherScott,
Many thanks for your higly informed and informative review!! I find this kind of things extremely helpful.

 

About clearly labeling the back panel connection, as a DIY workaround, I put some white paint on it and then clean the remainings.

Unfortunately, I used Tippex!! My bad. I am sure with acrilic (water solvable) or some more suited kind of paint I would have achieved much better results. Anyway, it makes the job. 😀 🤪😏

 

Paint.jpg

You can use also a permanent white marker, with some care

 

Jose

 

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I'm back, three topics today... {updated about 45 minutes after its original post}

 

1) More on the subject of fast patch recall

 

Often I can get through an awful lot of a gig with relatively few sounds. So I attached a little print-out that tells me what the 4 Registration Select buttons are for the first few banks... and the important thing here is that there is actually enough space to put these legends right where the buttons are. Honestly, even if the board did have named Registrations, I'd still want to do this, because while named Registrations would give you a clear indication of your current sound and a way to identify sounds as you move through them, it's at least equally valuable to quickly know what sound you're going to get when you hit a button and to see the quickest way to get to where you need to, and while this approach is not practical for all 64 locations, it's plenty practical for a smaller subset of what you may need to access most often. Here's a photo of what I assembled, showing the scale:

IMG_0525.thumb.JPG.c30c49267274f4678aa1c4924ad83b7a.JPG

 

and here's a close-up of it "in use":

IMG_0539.thumb.JPG.632edda21760cfadb142367eb2af2c5f.JPG

 

The Registration button gets you into that Registration select mode. If you put your 4 most needed sounds in Bank 1, your next 4 most frequently needed in Bank 2, you've got 8 named sound buttons with near-instant recall, since just a little turn of the dial lets you go back and forth between banks 1 and 2 (and there are some situations where 8 sounds on a board could get be me through 90% of a gig... and especially so if its part of a pair). Though one other thing to keep in mind during patch organization is not merely frequency of use, but frequency of needing, for example, a particular pair of sounds in the same song... putting those in the same bank is also strategically advantageous. 

 

Aside: I might try replacing the big dial with a small knob, which I found really improved scrolling navigation on the VR09... you get more accurate quick control of values that are near each other, which I usually find more valuable than quicker access to distant values where the bigger "old iPod style" wheels can be better. This could also help with octave switching, which I'll get back to later.

 

2) Pairings, and playing its sounds from an external board

 

Another interesting CT-S500 feature is that it has a separate set of 16 MIDI channels dedicated to external/sequencer control. I already mentioned that the recent update means that the sounds for the upper and lower keyboard-playable parts are now changeable over MIDI (giving you a way to avoid having to scroll through a menu to get to a sound), and enabling that feature reserves the first 5 MIDI channels for this and related purposes, but that still leaves you with plenty of channels of control for externally triggered sounds. This means that an external keyboard can be used to play one or more CT-S500 sounds completely independently from whatever you're playing on the Casio itself.

 

To digress briefly to explain what's especially cool here: Sometimes people use an external keyboard to trigger certain sounds in, for example, a Kronos Combi, a MODX Performance, a Fantom Scene, etc., and it can work well in specifically controlled situations, but usually, you do not get the flexibility of a true independent second keyboard with that approach, because when you change the sounds you're playing on the main board's internal keys, it will generally also "disconnect" your external board from playing the sound it had been playing (obviously not a problem when using a second board playing its own internal sounds). But with the CT-S500 approach, if you have an external board set to trigger some CT-500S sound(s), you can continue to use that board to play those sounds even as you change the sounds you're playing on the Casio itself.

 

So then, on the topic of two board pairings (for when a single 61 feels too limiting but you still want things to be as small and light as possible, as well as budget-friendly), a few ideas appeal to me. One of the first I thought of was an 11 lb Alesis VI49 or 13 lb VI6. These are low cost boards with 36 and 48 definable buttons, respectively.

 2045817024_ScreenShot2023-01-16at1_39_42PM.thumb.jpg.221a0a9b6121580257e7892396ef7bf5.jpg

388296244_ScreenShot2023-01-16at2_15_45PM.thumb.jpg.57aaed65bd55a66231185ef7b42561b4.jpg

 

What I like is that all those buttons could invoke Program Changes in all sorts of ways (and again, they can be labeled, as I labeled the buttons on the Casio itself)... it looks like you could have buttons that would allow you to use the board to trigger your CT-S500 sound(s) of choice from the Alesis keys (the Alesis itself can split to two MIDI channels), as well as buttons that change which CT-S500 sound(s) would be playing from the Casio's keys. (As a bonus, the board has aftertouch, and the Casio manual says it recognizes aftertouch... but there's no indication as to what it does when it receives it. Maybe duplicates the Knob3 function?) So besides letting you access more simultaneous Casio sounds over more than 61 keys, these Alesis boards would also give you a way to quickly and directly call up the sounds you most frequently needed, without even having to bother with the iPhone/iPad approach discussed earlier. One fly in this ointment... since the CT-S500 lacks a 5-pin MIDI In, you'd need a host device in-between, and if your hope is not to bother with the iPhone/iPad, you'll need to add a box for that, of the type discussed at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/184347-team-test-casio-ct-s1000v-arranger-keyboard-with-aix-vocal-synthesis/?do=findComment&comment=2930014 though of course, if you do use an iPad in the rig, you also have the option of having the Alesis trigger all kinds of other sounds from there (which can definitely make good use of the aftertouch, knobs, and trigger pads). 

 

 {ETA: A less than stellar report about these Alesis keyboards just posted at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/184455-lower-end-more-or-less-61-and-88-key-midi-controller-keyboards-your-experiences/?do=findComment&comment=2930745 }

 

 

Though if the goal is super light and compact, one might also be looking for a CT-S500 companion that is lighter than the CT-S500 itself. Either way, here are some other interesting combination ideas...

 

* As discussed in the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/184299-yamaha-reface-yc-vs-yamaha-reface-cp-if-you-could-only-choose-one/ - over a Casio like this, a Yamaha Reface YC at just over 4 lbs would give you a 9-drawbar organ (running its own sound, or something like VB3m or B3X in an attached phone/tablet), giving you the lightest/most compact way to improve on one of the weaker parts of the Casio. And if you are going to use the iPad, the Reface should be able to also do double duty as some extra keys that could be routed to play either other sounds from the iPad, or other sounds residing in the Casio (though the Reface's own MIDI flexibility is very limited).

 

* Or there are other soundless controllers, besides the Alesis I mentioned, which could have more appeal depending on your priorities. That Alesis is unique for having all those available sound select buttons. But if you don't need that, there are some 49/61 key controllers (some notably lighter than the Alesises) that may lack that quantity/flexibility of buttons, but could give you other things, including the 9 sliders you might want for drawbar control, again if you're going to run VB3m or B3X. It would be heavier than a 4 lb Reface, but you wouldn't be limited to 37 minikeys with no patch selection or other functionalities.

* ASM Hydrasynth Explorer: not as light or compact or inexpensive as a Reface, but still very small, and still light at 7.5 lbs, and still well-priced, giving you a versatile and somewhat knobby synth with polyphonic aftertouch, plus good MIDI functionality for controlling other sounds e.g. from an iPad, as shown at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_TtBC7OIek - and again, once you've got the iPad in there, you should also be able to route the Hydrasynth to control additional Casio sounds if you'd like, or other iPad sounds. (You couldn't do it directly, both because of the Casio's lack of a 5-pin MIDI In, and also because, despite some nice Hydrasynth MIDI functionality, it does not let you send definable Program Changes.) There are other very compact synths to choose from as well...  to me, it's the poly AT and MIDI functionality that especially put the thumb on the scale for this one.

 

Here's a photo of that last combo... a compact 2 board rig where the combination of the two boards AND the stand total about 27 lbs:

IMG_0526.thumb.JPG.c85af7a52aa99d78b8264fb1bc7f4268.JPG

 

Or at just under 30 lbs total, here's a pairing with a lighter-than-Alesis 61 and lighter-than-CT-S500 controller I happen to have (Roland PCR-800), with 9 sliders (as well as, again, assorted buttons, knobs, and aftertouch):

375863823_ScreenShot2023-01-16at12_37_37PM.thumb.jpg.a1fa857591fe7b414c3254b93463ee19.jpg

 

Or what the heck, how 'bout a compact 3-board stack, "piano + organ + synth", totaling just under 40 lbs including stand (okay, plus the weight of the iPad):

 

98530141_ScreenShot2023-01-16at12_39_25PM.thumb.jpg.b87ffb4e67374178f78befe5c271dc9c.jpg

 

I know, it would be more traditional to have the Roland "organ" in the middle and the synth on top... I did it this way to place the 12.9" iPad Pro where I wanted.

 

Using the Reface YC instead of the Roland would make for an even more compact piano+organ+synth, and knock off over 5 lbs.

 

Which brings me to my last combination idea...

 

* A Roland VR09 is the most compact single board that's a good choice for 9-drawbar organ and VA synth. We're getting slightly up in weight at just over 12 lbs but it's still yields a very light and compact "piano+organ+synth" combo, without having to go to 3 boards, and without having to bring in the i-device. It's pricier than any of the other 2-board options, though not necessarily pricier than a 3-board option that it could be kind of equivalent to. Especially with piano usage being the VR-09's weakness, this is a combination that could make a lot of sense. Trade-offs as always... no aftertouch in this combo, and except for a handful of parameters, programming of synth sounds requires an external editor, and its drawbars don't send MIDI CC. and its registrations can't be selected over MIDI. But those things don't always matter, and this combination could give someone just what they need. (A Hammond SK Pro could actually fill this role in mostly even better ways, but we're getting noticeably up in price and weight there.)

 

3. Octave switching

In my OP, I mentioned putting the Octave switching button on the home screen, which is very convenient (you can see it in the first picture in this post). I talked about, for example, quickly octave-switching your RH part if splitting over something like LH bass, but also, since we're talking about using this as a lower part of a pair, quick octave switching is useful when playing piano on a 61. There are ways I'd wish for even a little better functionality here, though...

 

... Once you tap Octave Shift, you select which part(s) you want to octave shift by tapping the appropriate buttons for Upper (both, if you've layered two), Upper 1, Upper 2, or Lower, as seen here:

147082784_ScreenShot2023-01-16at12_48_21PM.thumb.jpg.9f95eac2c0a40e90491dd69b91367906.jpg

 

And the default (before you press any of those buttons) is Upper, which is the one you'd most likely want, so at that point you can immediately use the wheel to shift the Upper sound's octave. (Though you could make the case that, if you choose something other than Upper, it should go back to what you chose the next time you use it, instead of always defaulting to Upper.) Once you turn the wheel, you get plus/minus buttons (which are much better than making scroll wheel adjustments), so if you stay on that screen, it then becomes just a quick tap to return to your original octave, very convenient. But it would be even better if we could avoid the scroll wheel entirely, since I think the wheel is an awkward device for fast on-the-fly adjustment. I wish that tapping the Upper, Upper 1, Upper 2, or Lower buttons would immediately switch you to the screen with the plus/minus buttons, instead of requiring a scroll wheel manipulation to get there, because for making the adjustment, the better place to be is on the screen with the plus and minus, shown here:

1457332934_ScreenShot2023-01-16at12_55_07PM.jpg.7aea9de24383d37b4982d4b5bb918ec6.jpg

 

So for example, with Octave Shift under button 2 on the Home screen as I have it, and Upper happening to end up under that same button, shifting the octave of my piano (or whatever) would be a matter of "double tapping" button 2 and then hitting the plus or minus button as desired. That would be better for a fast and accurate octave switch than "tap, then rotate the wheel." Or for another example, if it were the Lower sound you wanted to octave shift up, tapping buttons "2, 5, and 5" (where 2 again is Octave Shift, 5 is Lower, and the next 5 is the plus button) is easier to do quickly and accurately than "2, 5, and wheel rotate" .

 

... Another way quick octave switching could be enhanced would be to allow a footswitch in the Pedal 2 jack to be defined as an Octave Switch toggle function. There are multiple ways this might be implemented. IIRC, on the VAX77, you could keep a pedal depressed as long as you wanted the octave shifted, and it would return to normal when you released the pedal... that would be a nice option, for example. Settings for a few different ways this could work would be ideal. But apart from the toggle vs. VAX77 hold approach, there could be, say, four selectable choices which I think would cover most "on the fly" desires, i.e. "Upper One Octave Up," "Upper One Octave Down," "Lower One Octave Up," "Lower One Octave Down," where you'd be using the footswitch to go back and forth between the normal and the octave-shifted sound. You'd still use the menus for more extensive control (shifting Upper 1 and Upper 2 independently, shifting something by more than one octave).
 

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A bit of followup to today's followup...

 

Back on the topic of things I'd like to see, it would be nice if MIDI Program Changes could be saved in Registrations (and not just in Setups). But I'm guessing that, like named Registrations, that's been asked about before.

 

But mostly I wanted to add a little more about interesting pairings...

 

I mentioned VR09 as a possible nice board to put above the Casio for "clonewheel+synth" functionality that still keeps the rig compact and lightweight (and not too pricey), with the Casio providing the needed pianos/EPs where Roland is weak (not just in sound, but in decently playable action). At only about a pound more in weight (but about another $400), the Fantom-06 also becomes a possibility. No ninth drawbar :-( but still, decent clonewheel and VA synth (with on-board editing unlike the VR-09), and much more flexible overall. I don't have one, but I have the Fantom-07, so...

IMG_0560.thumb.JPG.5c588bc386384aefa9a8bec0ba31383a.JPG

I put the Casio on top, not just because it's aesthetically pleasing to put smaller boards over larger ones, but also for the magnetic placement of the 12.9" iPad Pro. But either way, that's a whole lot of 2-board rompler/organ/VA synth capability in under 33 lbs total (including stand) with a 61 Fantom-0, or under 35 lbs with the 76. And again, it addresses the biggest weakness of the Fantom-0 itself, how poor it plays for pianos.

 

And what the heck, let's toss the Hydrasynth Explorer back on the top...

1083228007_ScreenShot2023-01-16at9_09_13PM.thumb.jpg.9b467e8df264e58c10bf905c04667145.jpg

 

Of course, if the goal is to keep everything light and compact, it's easy to creep up a step at a time until you're pretty far from your original goal, too! 

 

Okay, that should be enough for the night... maybe I'll actually spend some time, you know, playing them. :-)

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Worth noting regarding my thoughts about having a second keyboard play additional CT-S500 sounds... it will work, but from what I'm reading, those sounds will not have employ the DSPs, which would affect which sounds you'd want to control that way.

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10 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

At only about a pound more in weight (but about another $400), the Fantom-06 also becomes a possibility. No ninth drawbar 😞 but still, decent clonewheel and VA synth (with on-board editing unlike the VR-09), and much more flexible overall. I don't have one, but I have the Fantom-07, so...

Does the Fantom 0's USB host capability work with the DINless Casio?

 

Cheers, Mike.

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2 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Does the Fantom 0's USB host capability work with the DINless Casio?

 

I haven't tried it. Officially the only boards supported are Roland A-49 or A-PRO series controller (link below). Other stuff may work, may not. Either way, though, from every implementation I've read about so far, even when boards have USB Host capabilities, they are "one way", i.e. an external board can trigger a sound in the board, but the board cannot play sounds that reside in the external board. So in this case, I think the best to hope for is that maybe the Casio would be able to trigger sounds that are in the Fantom, but the Fantom wouldn't have any control over the Casio.

 

https://rolandus.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360039197531-FANTOM-6-FANTOM-7-FANTOM-8-Connect-Devices-to-the-USB-EXT-DEVICE-Connector

 

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1 minute ago, AnotherScott said:

even when boards have USB Host capabilities, they are "one way", i.e. an external board can trigger a sound in the board, but the board cannot play sounds that reside in the external board

I thought at least the Kronos could act as a USB Host controller (MIDI out via USB Host). I know the Kurzweil PC4 is MIDI in via USB Host only - it was confirmed on this board by a Kurzweil rep (hipogrito, I think?).

 

I knew that "officially" the Fantom 0 only supported other Roland controllers, but wondered if that was just a "validation" thing ("We've tested our own controllers and they work, we can't comment on the competition").

 

Cheers, Mike.

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5 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

I thought at least the Kronos could act as a USB Host controller (MIDI out via USB Host). I know the Kurzweil PC4 is MIDI in via USB Host only

I'm not certain about Kronos/Nautilus, but I don't think so (and the related manuals and product pages on their web site only mention connecting controllers, they never mention connecting sound sources or anything else that would be a MIDI destination rather than a MIDI source). These boards with USB host functions can still send MIDI over USB of course (via their non-host USB connections). But I've never seen the host connections work that way. Montage/MODX being another example.

 

5 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

I knew that "officially" the Fantom 0 only supported other Roland controllers, but wondered if that was just a "validation" thing ("We've tested our own controllers and they work, we can't comment on the competition").

It seems to be more than validation, I remember seeing comments online of people trying other controllers that didn't work, or didn't fully work (like maybe the keys worked, but other things didn't)... though I can't be sure that wasn't a fluke (e.g. a defective piece or user error), so I'm not certain. Some others do seem to work fine, though.

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On 1/14/2023 at 6:37 AM, Sam Mullins said:

I got this rifle bag and it’s a nice tight fit with extra pockets for pedals and cables. There is a divider that is intended to divide the main compartment for two rifles. But  it is anchored by velcro and can be moved to top for extra padding. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9W2KX5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_GA844A5KMH1TW6V27ZZ8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

I can’t speak to the durability with any data;  I only used it a few times on vacation.

Though the rifle bag I use (Unho) appears to out-of-stock/unavailable, I discovered what appears to be the same bag here: https://tinyurl.com/4tmj8c45 . Looks exactly the same and specs are identical.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thinking about getting one of these for practicing while on tour, in the van mostly. My old iRig keys pro (w/ 37 pretty awful keys) could use an upgrade. I wonder if CT-S500, which requires 12.5V DC, could be powered with say a 12-15V battery pack (with appropriate adapter). 3 hours from 6 AA batteries ain't bad but recharging them on tour is probably a hassle. Have also looked at the CT-S1, which requires 9.5V DC. -- I don't imagine there's a more playable portable keyboard, specifically for piano practicing, from the descriptions available online. 

 

I'm not going to spring for CT-S1000V, but maybe in 20 or so years that could be the collector's item. Maybe some future modder figures out how to turn the voice function into something useful, like they did the sampler on SK-1 or SK-5. Somehow I don't imagine this would happen but who knows. 

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Getting back to thoughts about what to add to make this part of a compact a 2-board pair, looking for smallest/lightest way to get more keys (for more total real estate) while also complementing what's already in the Casio... 

 

Assuming I'm going to have an iPad there anyway (for lyrics/charts, and to send Registration/patch changes to the Casio), if I assume that as a sound source, what I'd most like out of a controller would be 9 sliders for controlling organ, and aftertouch for adding expression to synth sounds while my other hand is occupied. Since it would be an organ controller, it would also need an expression pedal jack. (Yes, you can add 9-slider control surfaces and expression pedal adapters to anything, but if the idea here is compact/light but also quick to setup, I'd want to minimize the need for dangling doodads.)

 

In checking Sweetwater, I was surprised that even going down to 49 keys, all the boards with 9 sliders and aftertouch were heavier than the CT-S1. The lightest, the Novation Impulse 49, is 11 lbs, and the next models up from there in weight are 12.6 bs, 13.9 lbs, and 14+, with the lightest 61 being the 61-key version of that Novation, 14.3 lbs. But while Sweetwater shows them as no longer available, other sites are still listing the Roland A-500 Pro (49 keys) and A-800 Pro (61), which weigh only 7.7 and 9.4 lbs respectively, and might be the way to go here. 

 

Anyway, the surprise for me here was how much lighter the Rolands are than anyone else's, if you want a controller with these features.

 

The other thought I had (while it doesn't address the drawbar or aftertouch desired) is that I could put my 5.7 lb Microstation over it. A super-light way to get more keys, a larger sound palette, and 16 patch select buttons that can also invoke sounds on external devices. (Though again, not directly on the Casio unless you do something to get around the Casio's lack of 5-pin MIDI, which I'll get back to.)

IMG_0580.thumb.JPG.e66b786c15966d6f639b01c18535e775.JPG

In part, the selection of a second board (if you care about having one at all) probably starts with deciding whether you want the convenience/simplicity of internal sounds, or if you want a flexible controller for iPad sounds. (If you want both, you're probably going to end up sacrificing in size/weight, and price.) Also how important more organ capability is to you.

 

Okay, so then getting back to working around the lack of a 5-pin MIDI In if you want to control Casio sounds from an external board (to play them and/or to send Program Changes)... I mentioned needing a host device in-between, which could be a stand-alone box (the Kenton or similar), or it can be an iPhone/iPad or other computer/tablet. Something I neglected to mention is the bluetooth possibility, which is especially worth noting since the board does come with a bluetooth adapter. If you want to directly communicate between some other board and the Casio, you can put a CME WIDI device on the other board (a WIDI Jack or WIDI Master if that board has 5-pin MIDI, or a WIDI UHost if it has USB), and the two should be able to communicate. (CME says their devices are compatible with Casio's bluetooth dongle.) There will be more latency than with a direct MIDI cable connection, but it will certainly be fine for sending Program Changes, and it may be fine for playing as well.

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2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Getting back to thoughts about what to add to make this part of a compact a 2-board pair, looking for smallest/lightest way to get more keys (for more total real estate) while also complementing what's already in the Casio... 

 

Assuming I'm going to have an iPad there anyway (for lyrics/charts, and to send Registration/patch changes to the Casio), if I assume that as a sound source, what I'd most like out of a controller would be 9 sliders for controlling organ, and aftertouch for adding expression to synth sounds while my other hand is occupied. Since it would be an organ controller, it would also need an expression pedal jack. (Yes, you can add 9-slider control surfaces and expression pedal adapters to anything, but if the idea here is compact/light but also quick to setup, I'd want to minimize the need for dangling doodads.)

 

In checking Sweetwater, I was surprised that even going down to 49 keys, all the boards with 9 sliders and aftertouch were heavier than the CT-S1. The lightest, the Novation Impulse 49, is 11 lbs, and the next models up from there in weight are 12.6 bs, 13.9 lbs, and 14+, with the lightest 61 being the 61-key version of that Novation, 14.3 lbs. But while Sweetwater shows them as no longer available, other sites are still listing the Roland A-500 Pro (49 keys) and A-800 Pro (61), which weigh only 7.7 and 9.4 lbs respectively, and might be the way to go here. 

 

Anyway, the surprise for me here was how much lighter the Rolands are than anyone else's, if you want a controller with these features.

 

The other thought I had (while it doesn't address the drawbar or aftertouch desired) is that I could put my 5.7 lb Microstation over it. A super-light way to get more keys, a larger sound palette, and 16 patch select buttons that can also invoke sounds on external devices. (Though again, not directly on the Casio unless you do something to get around the Casio's lack of 5-pin MIDI, which I'll get back to.)

IMG_0580.thumb.JPG.e66b786c15966d6f639b01c18535e775.JPG

In part, the selection of a second board (if you care about having one at all) probably starts with deciding whether you want the convenience/simplicity of internal sounds, or if you want a flexible controller for iPad sounds. (If you want both, you're probably going to end up sacrificing in size/weight, and price.) Also how important more organ capability is to you.

 

Okay, so then getting back to working around the lack of a 5-pin MIDI In if you want to control Casio sounds from an external board (to play them and/or to send Program Changes)... I mentioned needing a host device in-between, which could be a stand-alone box (the Kenton or similar), or it can be an iPhone/iPad or other computer/tablet. Something I neglected to mention is the bluetooth possibility, which is especially worth noting since the board does come with a bluetooth adapter. If you want to directly communicate between some other board and the Casio, you can put a CME WIDI device on the other board (a WIDI Jack or WIDI Master if that board has 5-pin MIDI, or a WIDI UHost if it has USB), and the two should be able to communicate. (CME says their devices are compatible with Casio's bluetooth dongle.) There will be more latency than with a direct MIDI cable connection, but it will certainly be fine for sending Program Changes, and it may be fine for playing as well.


You can also connect the Microstation via usb to the iPad and use AUM or other router to send midi via Bluetootth to the Casio

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2 hours ago, Jinkings said:


You can also connect the Microstation via usb to the iPad and use AUM or other router to send midi via Bluetootth to the Casio

Yes, even if you do want to use an iPad, that doesn't mean it has to be hard-wired, it can be any combination. You can hardwire one and bluetooth the other as you describe, or with the right cabling/interface you could hardwire both, or you could bluetooth both (using a CME WIDI device on a board if it does not have bluetooth). 

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On 1/17/2023 at 9:17 AM, Frenetos said:

Another Scott, many thanks for your useful thoughts!!
Regarding keeping notes of the registrations, this is my solution.
I leave the docx here in case you wan to edit it for your purposes.

 

 

Nice work! Though for my way of thinking, I thought I'd prefer each line to show the four sounds of a given Registration. This modification of your template could probably use some additional finesse, but this is the idea (again with template attached as a starting point for anyone who wants to use it)...

1730914997_ScreenShot2023-01-21at10_25_51PM.jpg.b6f6b71a8a299b17ef3566f8aa91b319.jpg

 

 

 

Registrations table horizontal.docx

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On 1/22/2023 at 4:29 AM, AnotherScott said:

 

Nice work! Though for my way of thinking, I thought I'd prefer each line to show the four sounds of a given Registration. This modification of your template could probably use some additional finesse, but this is the idea (again with template attached as a starting point for anyone who wants to use it)...

Great idea!! This way font size can be a bit bigger.
Here you have a first approach.

Registrations table (9,5 x 16) 02.jpg

 

 

Registrations table (9,5 x 16) 02.docx

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