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Mainstage + Talkbox + Key Largo + Nord + Roland + .......


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hey guys - Happy New Year!  Not sure if this is the right place for this, but here goes!

 

  • Using Mainstage for my sound sources
  • Using a Key Largo as my keyboard mixer for live gigs.
  • Using a Nord Electro and Roland A-800 for controllers (no actual sounds from these boards)
  • Midi'ing all these up with a midi hub.
  • Using the Key Largo's audio interface to get sounds out to my monitors & the audience.
  • Hooking up stage monitors / powered speakers using the Key Largo's monitor input.
  • Using the Key Largo's Mains/XLR to send to front-of-house
  • All of the above is working.

 

The twist:  I'm also using an MXR talkbox for certain songs.

  • I'm hooking the talkbox to the Key Largo's Effects send via 1/4" cable.  This is working.  The sound source from Mainstage is coming through the talkbox 'tube'.
  • I'm mapping a Mainstage sawtooth type sound to the Roland A-800.  This is the sound coming through the talkbox.  (note - I'm using a patch called Nightlife Lead - it really sings through the talkbox!  And if you switch to poly, you can make chords sing too, very cool!)
  • However - I have to turn the monitors down (off-zero) - other wise the same sound I'm using for the talkbox also comes through the monitors (this is not desireable).  I only want the talkbox sound to come through the talkbox tube. 

 

Problem:  this setup does not allow me to play other sounds simultaneously with the talkbox (won't allow the way I'd like!).  For example - my desire would be to, 1) have a clean Rhodes sound - mapped to the Nord Electro - coming through the monitors / speakers, and 2) a 'dirty' talkbox sound - mapped to the A-800 - coming through the talkbox tube.  

 

Solution:  is there a way to configure Mainstage and/or the Key Largo to accomplish this?  I noticed when setting up the audio in Mainstage - it allows me to select the Key Largo.  But that's it - there's no other choices I can see in the Mainstage audio settings.  I'm hoping to do this whilst using Mainstage, rather than introducing a separate/new keyboard (i.e. a Microkorg or any other board) to hook into the talkbox.

 

Thanks you so much for any insights!

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

Tommy Rude Soundcloud

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4 hours ago, Anderton said:

Since you have Mainstage, is there any reason not to use a vocoder plug-in or even stand-alone version instead? Seems to me that would really simplify your life!

hey Craig.. a bit of clarification please!  Do you mean a vocoder plugin instead of a talkbox?  If that's what you mean - I'd definitely prefer to use a talkbox for certain music.  A vocoder is on my to-do list, but based on what I hear - they sound quite a bit different, and hence are used differently.

 

On the 'stand-alone version' - are you referring to getting a separate keyboard to feed the talkbox?

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

Tommy Rude Soundcloud

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16 minutes ago, TommyRude said:

hey Craig.. a bit of clarification please!  Do you mean a vocoder plugin instead of a talkbox?  If that's what you mean - I'd definitely prefer to use a talkbox for certain music.  A vocoder is on my to-do list, but based on what I hear - they sound quite a bit different, and hence are used differently.

 

On the 'stand-alone version' - are you referring to getting a separate keyboard to feed the talkbox?

 

Yes, they do sound different, but you might be able to tweak the vocoder settings to get a sound that's more like what you want. It would certainly be easier, gear-wise. You can download a free demo of Arturia's Vocoder V, and give it a try. It's available as a plug-in, but also as a stand-alone device - i.e., like a softsynth. I mentioned that just in case it was easier to have a direct input from your keyboard and mic into it, independent of Mainstage. I'm not very familiar with Mainstage, though, so it might already have the capability for independent sends and such.

 

But give Vocoder V a try, and see if it can come close to what you want. Might be worth a shot.

 

One more thing: do you actually need to have it be intelligible, or do you just want the "mouthy" sort of sound? If the latter, you can come super-close with a filter setup. If you want I can post an audio example.

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I'd love to hear a sample.  Yes - a vocoder is in my future, perhaps exactly the Arturia you mention.  But - I do plan to continue using a talkbox, so I need to figure out how to solve the aforementioned problem.  And as you noted - it does need to be intelligible.

 

As for the vocoder - you're right, it should be much simpler.. I don't expect any of the same challenges that the talkbox presents in my above scenario.

 

As for Mainstage, generally speaking it's awesome!  The quality and breadth of sounds, the ease of mapping, assigning, splits, layers, etc etc.

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

Tommy Rude Soundcloud

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3 hours ago, TommyRude said:

I'd love to hear a sample.

 

Well, it wouldn't do what you want, because it doesn't do intelligibility - it just emulates the filter structure of the mouth. Sorry!

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hey Craig, thanks again for all the insights.  Here's a response I got from Radial (and wondering if anyone else has gone this route?)

 

"With the Key-Largo, all sounds that are produced from the USB channel on the mixer will all be consolidated to a single stereo output, meaning that all sounds from Mainstage will be treated as a single signal. In this case, there are unfortunately no workarounds for this type of setup on the digital end of the Key-Largo. However, if you had an audio interface that had the ability to separately output each keyboard sound from Mainstage, you could then feed these individual outputs to the available analog inputs on the Key-Largo and thus have more individual control in terms of effects routing."

 

More..

"Radial does not currently make an audio interface such as this at time for this many outputs. I would recommend looking into the use of an appropriate audio interface with your local music or pro audio store to see if they have any suggestions, as there are a wide variety of options available on the market to choose for.

 

While we do have the KL-8 as a larger-scale alternative to the Key-Largo, its USB functionality works in the same way that the Key-Largo’s does and will not provide any difference in results for your setup."

 

 

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

Tommy Rude Soundcloud

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Lots of audio interfaces will function as stand-alone digital mixers. The main differentiation between types it that some need to program in advance, because otherwise you'd need a computer to change the parameters. But other interfaces, like MOTU's Ultralite interfaces, have enough front-panel controls that you don't need the computer.

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  • 3 weeks later...

hey guys, update:  I was able to solve this dilemma (with the help of Dakota and Cody at Sweetwater).

 

I ended up adding another audio interface.  Connect via usb midi to my hub.  

 

Within the Macbook, in the midi setup, create an "Aggregate Device".  This is where you can select several interfaces.  here, I select both the Radial and the Scarlett.  In the midi setup, you can decide the routing by dragging the icons from one side to the other (this was important for efficiency - I'll explain below*).

 

Once that's done, connect the talkbox (MXR) into one of the line outs on the Scarlett.  Continue to connect powered speakers into the Radial.

 

Within Mainstage - via the channel strips within a patch, route the sound used for the talkbox to outputs 3-4 (i.e. the Scarlett).  Everything you need clean leave in outputs 1-2 (the Radial).

 

Lo and behold, it works!

 

*when we first set up the aggregate device, the Scarlett was on the left of the midi setup 'box', and the Radial was on the right.  This resulted with the "1-2" outputs in Mainstage to direct to the Scarlett, and outs 5-6 to the Radial.  For my scenario, I have 95% of my sounds needing to be "clean" (not talkbox).  So I was having to re-route all the clean sounds to outs 5-6 - a big time suck.  I found that you could drag-rearrange the devices within the midi setup box - bingo, saved a lot of mouse clicks 🙂

 

CONCLUSION:

Happy with this outcome.  It didn't work right away, we spent some time attempting to configure everything without success.  Dakota from Sweetwater contacted me the next day - he thought about it overnight and came up with this approach and boom, it worked. Just one extra 1/4" cable needed (but I do have to find somewhere to place the Scarlett).  For now, fits underneath the Radial, sitting on the Electro. 

 

Before this, I was leaning towards getting a dedicated keyboard just for the talkbox - which is what I think most guys do.  Now I have the flexibility to choose amongst a multitude of pretty awesome virtual sounds to run through the talkbox, and do plenty of programming and tweaking to get it right.  Much better methinks than buying a so-so board to lug around.  The Scarlett might be a bit overkill, might be accomplished with a smaller unit.

 

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

Tommy Rude Soundcloud

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Thanks for the follow up! The Mac makes aggregating easy, Windows does too if you use the native drivers.

 

Speaking of Sweetwater - I wrote an article for inSync about aggregating interfaces if you want more info. 

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Thanks Craig!  One thing I noticed in this journey is that most of the discussion and marketing around these interfaces is for studio purposes.  My scenario is live gigs, so thinking about road worthiness, ease of setting up / tearing down, backline scenarios, etc. 

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

Tommy Rude Soundcloud

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4 hours ago, TommyRude said:

Thanks Craig!  One thing I noticed in this journey is that most of the discussion and marketing around these interfaces is for studio purposes. 

 

Yes, but there's an ever-increasing number of relatively small, modest, road-worthy interfaces for podcasters. This trend will likely continue.

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Sure! You're already in good shape with the Focusrite. The CEntrance Mixerface interface I use is pricey, but small, high-quality, and effective. The PreSonus Audiobox interfaces are positioned for mobile/portable work as well as home studio. MOTU's UltraLite interfaces are also designed to handle mobile recording in mind.

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