How do non-techies deal with DAWs?

[RABid]

I'm in the process of changing computers, transferring everything, and all the other fun that comes with changing computers. No wonder I normally only do this every 5 years. I did it in January and decided that a 13" M1 Air screen is too small for my aging eyes. Upgraded to a 16" MacBook Pro which is much better for my needs, but...

 

Used the Apple transfer utility to transfer everything to the new computer. Half of my music programs work, the other half has to go through the initialization process, and I had to go back to the old Mac to unregister a lot of stuff.

 

Got a bigger external drive. Some programs don't care about samples being a different drive. Some were a little touchy about the drive changing names. And some, even though they have a place in setup where you can change drive path, seem to have other pointers that want the old drive and no way to fix those pointers. I'm thinking there are files under /library and other areas with the old drive name because just deleting and reinstalling the application does not fix the problem.

 

Spent hours and hours installing things to a new 4TB external SSD. Downloaded all those sound libraries from NI and other places that I could not fit onto the 2TB SSD I just replaced. It was almost great, then the new SSD lost its ability to mount and had to be formatted again. Worked for about 2 hours and died again. Amazon is sending a replacement. Will take 5 days to get it. Hope the next one works better. 

 

Thinking about selling my M1 Air with the pro chip, 512 SSD and 16MB memory upgrades. Cost me $1500 in January. Going rate used is about $750. For that I would almost keep it, but I still have my MacBookPro from 6 years ago, 11 years ago, and 16 years ago. I'm not running a Mac museum. I need to clean house.

 

Well, I do know how some non-techies deal with computers. Whenever a cousin calls I've started letting it go to voice mail. They never call to say "come to dinner" or "let's meet for lunch" or "did you hear what so and so did?" No, if a cousin calls it is almost always "can you help me with my computer?" And for those that think it is not a big deal ... ... ... My dad was one of 12 children. My mom was one of 11. I don't know exactly how many cousins I have but it is A LOT! I think I finally have them weened off of calling me. Now they post questions in the Facebook family group. 

[Anderton]

Maybe it's time to invent a new job description, "recording engineer." In the 20th century, those were the people who aligned the tape, set the pre-emphasis/de-emphasis EQ, cleaned the heads, sprayed the patch bays with contact cleaner, fixed the bad cables, replaced the switch that went out in your mixer, set the azimuth, demagetized the tape heads, did window splices, and sometimes, relapped the heads .

 

Maybe the reason why music had more vibe was because the engineer did all the left-brain stuff. All the artist had to do was art!

 

 

[RABid]

I tell you what amazes me at this point in my new computer setup. The companies that don't do a better job of organizing their VST installs. If Roland and Eventide can write install routines that creates sub-directories for their VST's why can't NI and Plugin Alliance do the same. They have installers that are made to install multiple VST's in multiple versions, but they cannot create a simple sub directory to put those VST's in? This is especially important for companies like Plugin Alliance that may install 50 or more plugins into a system. I'm really shocked that NI does not do this. And U-He. I love that company but some of their installs are in sub directories and some are not. I guess it depends on who was writing the installer whenever the plugin was developed. Another issue is plugin names. Some companies put their name in the front and some don't. I have multiples of some things like CS-80 or Arp 2600 clones. It is a guessing game trying to determine which one is which.

[David Emm]

>> Maybe the reason why music had more vibe was because the engineer did all the left-brain stuff. All the artist had to do was art!

 

I AM a nardist, rather than a techie. When I prepared to go all-in on an M1 Mac, I was prepared to scream like a chicken at the upgrade issues, but to my surprise, I screamed like one because it was so seamless. My idea of troubleshooting has often involved using the circuit boards for skeet. (In fairness, I was the one who bought the knockoff PC and attempted to run Win 95 on it. The horror...) 😱

 

A friend WAS a jr. recording engineer, having worked in a pro studio for a while and then deciding that angle on it wasn't for him. I learned a lot from him by pointing at a thing and saying "If I want this to work when I'm done instead of becoming e-trash, tell me if what I'm considering is Stoopid™, will you?"

 

One big benefit: better work habits. "Art" is rarely linear, but studio upkeep lives or dies by it. He taught me that, for which I remain grateful.         

 

BTW, RABid, based on advice I heard on KC, I've bought 1 TB and 2 TB Crucial SSDs. They seem to get a pretty good overall rating for dependability. I'm not yet ready to move my libraries to an outboard SSD, but if these hold up well. I may go there. I can cautiously but hopefully recommend Crucial. HTH.

[KenElevenShadows]

How do non-techies deal with DAWs?

 

Very carefully. Set it up. Getting it working. Then cross your fingers that it keeps working.

 

Keep using a 2006 computer with antiquated OS and Pro Tools. Because it keeps working, after all. 

[Anderton]

1 hour ago, KenElevenShadows said:

Keep using a 2006 computer with antiquated OS and Pro Tools. Because it keeps working, after all. 

 

I'm a believer in the appliance theory of music computers. You don't upgrade a toaster or dishwasher, right? I mean, if the water heater dies you get another one, but otherwise you flush it every year or two and get on with your life.

 

Obviously I'm in a position where I can't freeze my computer, because I have to test stuff and write books and such. I can't exactly write a book that says "With System 9, enable your MIDI devices by..." I decided the next best thing was to buy a PC Audio Labs computer, let them integrate it to cover lots of possibilities, and know they'd worry about any problems that happened instead of me. The PCAL computer I was using before the one I have now served me for 10 years, but because it was set up from the gitgo for 64 bits and plenty of memory, I was still able to run the latest programs. The main reason I had to upgrade was because of doing more video work. 

 

On a semi-related topic, I gotta give major props to Line 6 for Helix. It came out 7 years ago and they're still coming up with significant free upgrades. The last one was mind-boggling - vastly superios-sounding cabs, that draw far less processing power. Helix has been my high-performance toaster since 2015. 

[KuruPrionz]

2 hours ago, Anderton said:

Maybe the reason why music had more vibe was because the engineer did all the left-brain stuff. All the artist had to do was art!

This is the battle and the battle ground - Artist Vs Engineer when they are both the same person (Me!). 

Budget constraints and the desire for total convenience with regards to WHEN I record have created this two-minded monster that is at odds with itself. 

The Worm Ouroboros, a dragon that grabs it's own tail in it's mouth and commences to swallowing itself. 

 

I'm in process of simplifying in terms of hardware and software. I really don't need much of either, I would like something with more options than my X-Key 25 but I love the form factor and don't use it much anyway. I have plugins that will never get used or I try them and think they are pretty OK but the interface stinks or they just don't sound very good to me. I could probably toss 75% of my plugins and never miss any of them at all. Luckily, quite a few of them were free. Free does not mean that they don't sound good or have crappy interfaces, not by any means.

 

I also have too many microphones but I don't regret that, I mostly bought used at good prices and should be able to re-coup. I did get to try them and see which ones I prefer. I know which ones are my keepers, others may prefer some of the ones I will be selling. Different spaces, different circumstances and different aspects to how a microphone works, sometimes it's not the sound but how much background noise something picks up that demotes it. 

 

I tend to keep several smaller hard drives instead of getting a large one and I have everything copied at least once in the event something dies. 

We grow as we go, I have a pair of Mackie HR824s that I bought at a pawn shop a long time ago. They got me here but recently I picked up 3 Yamaha MSP5 5" 2 way monitors, all fully functional and I am surprised at how much clearer these are in the midrange without sacrificing low end much at all at the volume I tend to mix. 

 

Stuff needs to find a new home. It will. Meanwhile, now I'm trying to figure out Step Clips in Waveform and if I step back for a bit and ponder I realize I've simply skipped an important step like going into MIDI settings and giving a plugin the go-ahead. 

 

We hear it again and again but less is more. Being able to get the Engineer done and out of the way quickly matters. Sometimes we do end up in the trenches for a bit. Perseverance furthers. 

[RABid]

18 hours ago, David Emm said:

I've bought 1 TB and 2 TB Crucial SSDs.

I started with a Samsung T5 1TB SSD, upgraded to a T7 2TB and almost filled it. With the new computer I ordered a SanDisk 4TB Extreme. That is the one that failed. Will try Crucial next. I see they have a 4TB for $259 on sale at Amazon. That is a good price.

 

Edit: Ordered the Crucial T8 4TB external SSD for $280. I has twice the read and write speed of the T6 which was $20 cheaper.

[surfergirl]

The most tech thing I do is upgrade my phone. I have an ancient tablet that I haven't used since I graduated in 2018. When I open my phone it Says I have 25 upgrades in the Glaxey store, I've never upgraded them. I have no idea what DAW is and I'm afraid to ask. 

[RABid]

Wow, looking back at some of my posts I must have been in a mood yesterday after dealing with a bad SSD. Should be in a better mood this evening after getting my Roland Wireless USB adapter for my Jupiter Xm. Looking forward to connecting my Jupiter Xm to the Roland Cloud and using the phone to load patches, samples and vintage synth modules. That is the fun side of tech.

[Anderton]

2 hours ago, surfergirl said:

I have no idea what DAW is and I'm afraid to ask. 

 

DAW is really just a dumb acronym ("Digital Audio Workstation"). It means digital audio hardware or software that makes sounds, records, and plays back. It also includes mixing the stuff you recorded and are playing back. 

[KuruPrionz]

Well, I'm no techie but computers are not unfamiliar to me. My first deep dive was in 1992 with Adobe Photoshop. Unlike the current situation with DAWs, there really wasn't a viable competitor for Photoshop. There were other programs but by the time they got good enough to be viable, Photoshop was ubiquitous, everybody used it. 

 

To a certain extent, Pro Tools is top dog in professional studio world but It doesn't have the same leverage. To this day I still use Photoshop Elements since it's the best bang for the buck when you don't use software to make a living anymore. 

 

DAWs are different. A friend who went to college for recording arts advised me to use Digital Performer, I think I got to version 4 and just didn't bond with it at all. Not my jam. 

Then I bought a Mackie interface and it came with a free version of Tracktion (maybe version 3?). I liked the interface and the first time I opened it I cranked out a song with 12 tracks and everything just seemed to make sense so I stayed there. 

 

That's what I would advise a non-technical person, chose one DAW that you feel comfortable with and just stay there.

 

I'm probably 14 years in at this point and certainly no expert but I can get a recording done quickly and easily. I took a look at Logic recently and considered it but I'd prefer to avoid the learning curve since it is different in many ways than Waveform (the current name for Tracktion). I'm still learning new things, current challenge is Step Clips, they look like an extremely useful tool, especially for percussion tracks so I watch the tutorial videos, fire it up and each time I get more done and closer to my goal, which is just to remove obstacles so I can create what I want to hear. 

 

I totally get that a smart guy like Craig gets paid to know stuff about a variety of DAWs, my hat's off to him!!!! From what he posts on here, he seems to prefer using Presonus Studio One, which is another DAW I considered a few years ago and decided to just stay where I'm comfortable. It looks like a good option though, not dinging it. Just practical and efficient (some call that lazy, lazy can be good if done properly...)

[pinkfloydcramer]

Alot of talented people don't get on board with music recording because DAWS are needlessly complex and confusing. These same people don't have any use for MIDI crap or piano rolls (WTF?) or even virtual instruments. They just want to multi-track audio and sync it to a click or drum machine, or maybe their own drummer/percussionist (and yes, that's challenging but in a more conventional way). The new CEO of Fender will back me up, he said as much in an interview last summer. And that his aim was to offer products that bring more musicians into the fold.

 

This semi-talented musician has made some DAW headway, though, thanks to the encouragement of Craig.🙂   

[David Emm]

56 minutes ago, pinkfloydcramer said:

A lot of talented people don't get on board with music recording because DAWS are needlessly complex and confusing.

 

 

To each their own choice of tools, but I'd consider it to be a small shame if someone couldn't at least see GarageBand or Cubasis as a very smart 'tape deck.' I was DAW-resistant as well, but between getting tired of a squinty synth display and routing issues, I found my first modest DAW experiments surprisingly enjoyable. It banished a lot of what I had come to see as fatiguing. It certainly beat wrestling with an ARP Sequencer. I'm glad I did it. I'm also glad that I was able to get away from it. 🤨

[KenElevenShadows]

On 12/20/2022 at 7:12 PM, Anderton said:

 

I'm a believer in the appliance theory of music computers. You don't upgrade a toaster or dishwasher, right? I mean, if the water heater dies you get another one, but otherwise you flush it every year or two and get on with your life.

 

 

Oh yeah, absolutely. If it records music ten years ago, it still does now. If it toasts bread ten years ago, it still does now.

 

Also, I don't have enough money to keep purchasing newer computers. Or even toaster ovens. I've had the same stupid toaster oven for over ten years. I don't know how people can afford to keep purchasing new items all the time.

 

Also, I just want to roll up my sleeves and get to work, not fiddle with my computer or install new things all the time. I want to flick on a switch and create instantly. There's some real value in that.

[KuruPrionz]

3 minutes ago, KenElevenShadows said:

Also, I just want to roll up my sleeves and get to work, not fiddle with my computer or install new things all the time. I want to flick on a switch and create instantly. There's some real value in that.

I do fiddle a bit with my computer. I like it when an update makes life easier. I've more or less frozen my 2014 laptop but my Mac Mini is going through the Apple Silicon update cycle. Hopefully that's settled down soon. I'm looking forward to the update for Waveform, usually happens in January and I usually wait until March unless they have a  special and make it inexpensive. 12.5 is good but 13 should be more Apple Silicon friendly. I've lost some plugins to "progress" at least on the newer Mac but I've been trimming away at that excess too. Piles of plugins just clog things up and make it difficult to decide what to use. I'm gravitating towards single plugins that can do many things, good ones cover a lot of ground and simplify mixing considerably. 

 

Yesterday I tracked a piece I am creating. I didn't mess about with settings or other stuffs, just got to work. Today I'm going to mix it, I did work on getting all the tracks to sit well last night but now I want to minimize their individual "appearances" in the final track. 

I seem to always work that way, pile in overly complete tracks and then dig myself back out editing them down. I've tried planning my recording in advance but it always seems to change when I have things recorded so I might as well wait until then and go with how things happened. I'm the same way with photography, I plan do make images of a particular sort, then I shoot what I see and etc. accordingly. I have to allow my art to be of the moment. 

[KenElevenShadows]

The advantage here is that you have two (or more) outlets for creativity, so you can let one marinate while you do the other one. 

 

I love updates that make life easier, although I'm long past that with my 2006 computer. 

 

Not so the newer computer. I will install new software or updates regularly. This is because it's not difficult to do, but also because I do reviews for Photofocus, and so....that's what I do!! But here too, I don't do much fiddling under the hood. Install, uninstall, update while eating a sandwich, and it's all good. Minimal fiddling, thankfully, and for that I am eternally grateful.

[KuruPrionz]

14 minutes ago, KenElevenShadows said:

The advantage here is that you have two (or more) outlets for creativity, so you can let one marinate while you do the other one. 

 

I love updates that make life easier, although I'm long past that with my 2006 computer. 

 

Not so the newer computer. I will install new software or updates regularly. This is because it's not difficult to do, but also because I do reviews for Photofocus, and so....that's what I do!! But here too, I don't do much fiddling under the hood. Install, uninstall, update while eating a sandwich, and it's all good. Minimal fiddling, thankfully, and for that I am eternally grateful.

I hear ya! 

I like simple but I'm also doing some deep dives where I think it will pay off. 

My creative computer experience started in the early 90's, the community college that I majored in Photography (great department!) installed 12 Macs with Photoshop 1.07 over the holidays. The instructor was teaching "learn as you go" style, I took the class and spent a lot of time in the lab. It didn't take long before he told me I knew more about Photoshop than anybody else in the building. I kept at it and the instructor updated on every odd number so Photoshop 3, 5, 7 etc. 

 

It was a deep dive. There wasn't much information available at first. I remember having the lab to myself for hours, turning on ALL the computers and putting up the same image on all of them. That way I could go around the room, trying out all the different effects and while computers were processing, I could be firing up others and looking at results. Bear in mind we are talking about 12mb of RAM!!!! 😊

I stuck with it and continued to learn. I can do cool stuff in Photoshop but over time I've realized that music is what I truly love and too many people have been singing along to my songs at bar gigs for me to think I've got nothing going on there. 

 

For now it's Photoshop Elements 2021 for photography and deeper dive into DAW world. 

I just watched a video on New Fangled Audio Invigorate - I have it and they just updated it. Fantastic "all in one" processor for mixing or mastering, it won't be long before a buttload of plugins get tossed out, I don't think I'll need them. 

 

[Anderton]

2 hours ago, KenElevenShadows said:

Also, I just want to roll up my sleeves and get to work, not fiddle with my computer or install new things all the time. I want to flick on a switch and create instantly. There's some real value in that.

 

19 hours ago, pinkfloydcramer said:

They just want to multi-track audio and sync it to a click or drum machine, or maybe their own drummer/percussionist (and yes, that's challenging but in a more conventional way). The new CEO of Fender will back me up, he said as much in an interview last summer. And that his aim was to offer products that bring more musicians into the fold.

 

The only reason we're having this discussion is because companies don't listen to me 🤣

 

For decades, I've said DAWs should follow the video game model, with levels. Level 1 would basically be an ADAT in software - eight tracks, record/play, transport, meters. Level two would be basic editing tools like cut and paste. Level 3 would add inserts for EQ. You get the idea. Once someone felt limited by a level, they could move to the next one. (But you could pick any level you wanted, regardless of whatever level you'd reached - just in case you wanted to start off simple and catch an inspiration.)

 

The late Mike Rivers (I definitely miss his presence here) once started a thread along the lines of why he just stuck with his Mackie hard disk recorder, and about the complexity and hassle of DAWs. At that time, Sonar had a super-customizable interface (which unfortunately went away when they changed to the Skylight interface). So, I did a custom version of Sonar for him.  I created an interface that functionally, was an ADAT - nothing more, nothing less. It even looked kind of like an ADAT - it just hid everything else in the program. If I can find the screen shot, I'll post it. I also did an interface that was exactly like Sound Forge, so Sonar became a digital audio editor instead of a multitrack recording program.

 

I truly believe a DAW that thinks in terms of modules, with video game-like levels, is the solution. My Sonar experiments even proved it's possible from a technical standpoint.

 

By now, I've given up expecting anyone to listen. But...hey Fender CEO, wanna do lunch?

[KenElevenShadows]

1 hour ago, KuruPrionz said:

 

I stuck with it and continued to learn. I can do cool stuff in Photoshop but over time I've realized that music is what I truly love and too many people have been singing along to my songs at bar gigs for me to think I've got nothing going on there. 

 

For now it's Photoshop Elements 2021 for photography and deeper dive into DAW world. 

I just watched a video on New Fangled Audio Invigorate - I have it and they just updated it. Fantastic "all in one" processor for mixing or mastering, it won't be long before a buttload of plugins get tossed out, I don't think I'll need them. 

 

 

 

Whoooey, you began early with this! I'm relatively new to photography, including night photography. I think what helps is that I have a passion for it and that's accelerated it and kicked it along.

 

Photoshop Elements is very very capable, an excellent program, and perfect for most people. I'm just not most people, haha! Processing night photography often has more steps, whether it's battling image noise, stacking for a variety of reasons, or processing extremely low-light photos. And then, of course, there's the fact that I review software for Photofocus, so I have more crazy software than most people might (although I frequently uninstall the stuff I'm not using after a while just to keep things clean).

[RABid]

3 hours ago, KenElevenShadows said:

Also, I don't have enough money to keep purchasing newer computers. Or even toaster ovens.

I finally reached that point with cameras. Stopped upgrading with the Canon 5Dmk3. I used to justify upgrades with the promise of better auto focus. My eyes are not that good so I do rely on auto focus. When the question of going mirrorless put everything into confusion, I decided not to do anything. Well, I did buy a M50 for video, but I am still chugging along with the 5Dm3.

[KenElevenShadows]

14 minutes ago, RABid said:

I finally reached that point with cameras. Stopped upgrading with the Canon 5Dmk3. I used to justify upgrades with the promise of better auto focus. My eyes are not that good so I do rely on auto focus. When the question of going mirrorless put everything into confusion, I decided not to do anything. Well, I did buy a M50 for video, but I am still chugging along with the 5Dm3.

 

Absolutely. If you like using something, if you feel it's not holding you back, and if it's producing great results, then absolutely, why switch?

 

By the way, although my cameras are a little newer than a Canon 5D Mk III, they're still long in the tooth as far as digital cameras go. I purchased both of them used too, haha! I use a Nikon D750, which was issued in 2014, and a Pentax K-1, which was issued in I believe 2016. Both are DSLR, not mirrorless. And I push my cameras to the limit too, slogging through dust, rain, and sand, going through abandoned places, and pushing their low-light capabilities.

 

But you know, National Geographic, Omni Magazine, Westways Magazine, the book publisher, and the magazines and newspapers don't care what I use. They only care that it's well-conceived and well-executed and otherwise looks great.

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, Anderton said:

 

 

The only reason we're having this discussion is because companies don't listen to me 🤣

 

For decades, I've said DAWs should follow the video game model, with levels. Level 1 would basically be an ADAT in software - eight tracks, record/play, transport, meters. Level two would be basic editing tools like cut and paste. Level 3 would add inserts for EQ. You get the idea. Once someone felt limited by a level, they could move to the next one. (But you could pick any level you wanted, regardless of whatever level you'd reached - just in case you wanted to start off simple and catch an inspiration.)

 

The late Mike Rivers (I definitely miss his presence here) once started a thread along the lines of why he just stuck with his Mackie hard disk recorder, and about the complexity and hassle of DAWs. At that time, Sonar had a super-customizable interface (which unfortunately went away when they changed to the Skylight interface). So, I did a custom version of Sonar for him.  I created an interface that functionally, was an ADAT - nothing more, nothing less. It even looked kind of like an ADAT - it just hid everything else in the program. If I can find the screen shot, I'll post it. I also did an interface that was exactly like Sound Forge, so Sonar became a digital audio editor instead of a multitrack recording program.

 

I truly believe a DAW that thinks in terms of modules, with video game-like levels, is the solution. My Sonar experiments even proved it's possible from a technical standpoint.

 

By now, I've given up expecting anyone to listen. But...hey Fender CEO, wanna do lunch?

Your reasons above are probably why I found myself attracted to Tracktion when it came out. It was super simple to record tracks and not distracting. 

I grew with the program, as it added bits of complexity while being developed, I'd gravitated to being ready for that next level. 

 

My recent experiences looking at a new DAWs (Logic and Studio Pro) have me in full agreement with you on the whole "deep dive" environment we are in now. 

If I hadn't grown with Tracktion/Waveform I probably wouldn't like it now either. 

And, I miss Mike Rivers too. I'm glad I got to know him at least. 

[KenElevenShadows]

5 hours ago, Anderton said:

 

 

The only reason we're having this discussion is because companies don't listen to me 🤣

 

For decades, I've said DAWs should follow the video game model, with levels. Level 1 would basically be an ADAT in software - eight tracks, record/play, transport, meters. Level two would be basic editing tools like cut and paste. Level 3 would add inserts for EQ. You get the idea. Once someone felt limited by a level, they could move to the next one. (But you could pick any level you wanted, regardless of whatever level you'd reached - just in case you wanted to start off simple and catch an inspiration.)

 

The late Mike Rivers (I definitely miss his presence here) once started a thread along the lines of why he just stuck with his Mackie hard disk recorder, and about the complexity and hassle of DAWs. At that time, Sonar had a super-customizable interface (which unfortunately went away when they changed to the Skylight interface). So, I did a custom version of Sonar for him.  I created an interface that functionally, was an ADAT - nothing more, nothing less. It even looked kind of like an ADAT - it just hid everything else in the program. If I can find the screen shot, I'll post it. I also did an interface that was exactly like Sound Forge, so Sonar became a digital audio editor instead of a multitrack recording program.

 

I truly believe a DAW that thinks in terms of modules, with video game-like levels, is the solution. My Sonar experiments even proved it's possible from a technical standpoint.

 

By now, I've given up expecting anyone to listen. But...hey Fender CEO, wanna do lunch?

 

I like the idea of modules with levels. 

 

I would also love to see either suggestions made if one is trying to figure out routing I/O after a set amount of time or if something is not working, some offering of suggestions. And I'd also like to see that when there's a crash or it hangs, there's some sort of meaningful dialog box giving the possible reasons upon reboot. There must be a reason why manufacturers don't do that. I'm guessing it must be more difficult than I think it is or they wouldn't do it. But since companies are embracing AI, well, here's a start.

[Anderton]

4 hours ago, KenElevenShadows said:

I would also love to see either suggestions made if one is trying to figure out routing I/O after a set amount of time or if something is not working, some offering of suggestions.

 

You're right, that's where AI could be helpful. Or, it could see how you've set it up in the past, and simply duplicate that as a start. I can also see AI be incredibly helpful when comping.

 

4 hours ago, KenElevenShadows said:

And I'd also like to see that when there's a crash or it hangs, there's some sort of meaningful dialog box giving the possible reasons upon reboot. There must be a reason why manufacturers don't do that. I'm guessing it must be more difficult than I think it is or they wouldn't do it.

 

With the caveat that all I know about code is that other people do it, I assume the problem is that once the system has crashed, the program isn't working so it can't apply the diagnostics needed to know what happened. I guess the solution would be a separate monitoring program that would constantly look at the main program, and be able to reproduce the steps that happened just before the crash.

[KenElevenShadows]

11 minutes ago, Anderton said:

 

You're right, that's where AI could be helpful. Or, it could see how you've set it up in the past, and simply duplicate that as a start. I can also see AI be incredibly helpful when comping.

 

 

With the caveat that all I know about code is that other people do it, I assume the problem is that once the system has crashed, the program isn't working so it can't apply the diagnostics needed to know what happened. I guess the solution would be a separate monitoring program that would constantly look at the main program, and be able to reproduce the steps that happened just before the crash.

 

Yes, yes, I meant write that as well that it could go off previous attempts, which is of course how AI, or machine learning, would solve this, much like anything else it might do.

 

For the second part, it must be something like that. But even in the case of, say, something like Pro Tools, it sure would be nice to offer some sort of information besides arcane error codes. I realize sometimes this is being done, but still, it bears mentioning.

[Joe Muscara]

On 12/21/2022 at 4:18 PM, Anderton said:

DAW is really just a dumb acronym ("Digital Audio Workstation").

The first time I heard someone say it as a word (rhymes with "claw") instead of saying "Dee-ay-double-you" I thought that was dumb. In my head I kept hearing the guy go, "DAW, ain't that cute."  

 

19 hours ago, Anderton said:

For decades, I've said DAWs should follow the video game model, with levels. Level 1 would basically be an ADAT in software - eight tracks, record/play, transport, meters. Level two would be basic editing tools like cut and paste. Level 3 would add inserts for EQ. You get the idea. Once someone felt limited by a level, they could move to the next one.

I think that was the idea behind GarageBand/Logic, and Logic does have simpler and more complex modes, but even then neither seems to be real easy for someone who "just wants to record" to jump in. Frankly, I would hesitate to call your Level 1 "ADAT," I'd go straight for calling it "tape" or "tape recorder." And what would be cool is that person A could record whatever with Level 1, and send his files in the app's format to a person using the same app in Level 8 or whatever and that person could open them natively. Or, I just want to do a quick recording so I fire up in Level 1 and get my tracks down, then switch over to Level whatever and do all the editing, even tempo mapping, plug-ins, etc., but when I was recording the tracks, none of that was distracting me. I just set my levels, enabled my tracks and went. Cool.

[Strays Dave]

On 12/21/2022 at 6:10 PM, pinkfloydcramer said:

Alot of talented people don't get on board with music recording because DAWS are needlessly complex and confusing. These same people don't have any use for MIDI crap or piano rolls (WTF?) or even virtual instruments. They just want to multi-track audio and sync it to a click or drum machine, or maybe their own drummer/percussionist (and yes, that's challenging but in a more conventional way). The new CEO of Fender will back me up, he said as much in an interview last summer. And that his aim was to offer products that bring more musicians into the fold.

 

This semi-talented musician has made some DAW headway, though, thanks to the encouragement of Craig.🙂   

 You pretty much nailed me PFC.  I am off an crawling with Presonus Studio One 5.5.  I used Obedia (a software support outfit) to get past a roadblock.  I changed interface (bought a Studio 1810c to replace a Studio 26) and up popped extra buses or something. I also couldn't find why there was more hiss in the headphones - something in the signal chain?.  The stock hot keys don't seem to respond - another of those infernal hidden settings ?   I know nothing. But want to experiment with creating percussion parts, including fooling with some mouth noises (beat box?).  When I spend an hour filled  with roadblocks, my impulse is to go back and play the piano.  BUT, I've decided to spend the money for tutoring sessions from Obedia.  Maybe they can introduce me step by step to the fundamentals.  I'd also like to be able to make minor edits if say a tambourine pulse is slightly off in spots.  Maybe try to cook up some vocal harmony parts and try to recruit some friends to sing them.  

 

I figure they can guide me through steps 1, 2, 3.   Maybe give me a recording assignment.  Whatever.  I just wanna make music. And get decent recordings. 

 

[Anderton]

Obedia does great support. They also have free tutorials on common aspects of programs. I've always turned to them when I've had intractable Windows problems (I use a PC Audio Labs computer, which is part of the same organization), and they've always come through quickly with a solution.

 

If it's of any help, keep reminding yourself that it takes 80% of the learning curve to learn the first 20% of the program. At some point, you reach escape velocity and things start making sense.

 

Frankly, part of the problem lies with computers (yes, even Macs). The interaction between DAW, interface, and computer can be complex. Using the PreSonus interface with Studio One is a double-edged sword - you'll have compatibility between the DAW and interface, but it also gives you more flexibility that can be overwhelming. The Universal Control applet can also be confusing, until all of a sudden one day, when it isn't. Also remember that Studio One grew out of PreSonus's experience with live/studio mixers, so there are a lot of capabilities (like headphone cue monitoring) that are intended to accommodate studios that use a DAW as a replacement tape recorder. 

 

Many DAWs presume a background with fairly sophisticated hardware setups, which isn't always the case. Young users may have never been able to have the experience, and older users may not have been able to afford it.

[KuruPrionz]

14 hours ago, Strays Dave said:

 You pretty much nailed me PFC.  I am off an crawling with Presonus Studio One 5.5.  I used Obedia (a software support outfit) to get past a roadblock.  I changed interface (bought a Studio 1810c to replace a Studio 26) and up popped extra buses or something. I also couldn't find why there was more hiss in the headphones - something in the signal chain?.  The stock hot keys don't seem to respond - another of those infernal hidden settings ?   I know nothing. But want to experiment with creating percussion parts, including fooling with some mouth noises (beat box?).  When I spend an hour filled  with roadblocks, my impulse is to go back and play the piano.  BUT, I've decided to spend the money for tutoring sessions from Obedia.  Maybe they can introduce me step by step to the fundamentals.  I'd also like to be able to make minor edits if say a tambourine pulse is slightly off in spots.  Maybe try to cook up some vocal harmony parts and try to recruit some friends to sing them.  

 

I figure they can guide me through steps 1, 2, 3.   Maybe give me a recording assignment.  Whatever.  I just wanna make music. And get decent recordings. 

 

Keep at it, it takes time to get a smooth workflow going and then you'll learn something that you want to do and it sends you spiraling off into all the funs again. 😘

Focus, as you've stated you just want to lay down tracks and start learning to mix down. We all  have our own challenges, depending on the space we've called our "studio" some mics and/or speakers will work better than others. You'll want to find your mics, it's been my experience that purchasing used carefully means I can sell at break even or better if a mic turns out to be better for something else (there are no truly BAD mics, just incorrect situations). For where and how I work, dynamic mics seem to be the best for vocals and electric guitars. I do prefer condensers on acoustic guitars. I'm in a multi-unit complex, a condo. Recording drum sets will not work here, the rooms are not ideal and the neighbors would prefer a quieter environment. Other than vocals and acoustic guitars, I'm mostly ITB. 

 

Over time, I've found I don't need much to get something recorded. The less time you have to spend setting up the more time you have to give to the music. 

The music is what matters. Those times you are tempted to "just play the piano?" Put a mic on it!!!!! Fire it up, see what you get. You may unleash a bit of magic that you can turn into a song.