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7 hours ago, Pit said:

How to connect the Piano select drawknob of the nord directly to the preset bank of the GX-80 in the fav-directory? I know i can easily step one position in this bank forward by simply pressing STRG + RIGHT on the machine. How to bring this clicks to my knob?


The Presets function of the GX-80 and other Cherry Audio instruments responds to MIDI Program Change messages. Set the focus of the Presets Manager to <Favorites> and select to load the first preset. Whatever control of your Nord Electro is used to navigate through patches on the Electro should send Program Change to GX-80, and it will navigate to the next (or previous) preset. You'll may need to check the keyboard's documentation to verify that it does send MIDI Program Change messages, and possibly configure something like a "TX Program Change On" in its settings.

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Hello Everyone - thank you for this superb forum.

I have a Akai Midimix and have simply assigned some of the Tone Selector presets to the buttons and the Mix I II, BRILL & RESON to 3 of the sliders. I have also assigned the effects selectors to buttons. Even with this basic level of control the possibilities seem infinate - I can seemingly keep endlessly diverting from whatever sound I start with. I have not yet mapped any of the panel controls even though I have heaps of knobs and sliders to spare.

My Ableton Push 2 is proving to be a good poly AT controller - is anyone else using a Push with the GX80?

I have been happily noodling away with this setup for hours. It is great.

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On 12/12/2022 at 6:58 PM, KJX said:

[…] After falling on harder times at the end of the '90s and liquidating my analog gear, I set about recreating the magic lifeforce of the CS-80. This lead me into exploring the history of the GX-1 and where that went, which was also into the Yamaha E-70 from the same year as the CS-80. Fast forward to pursuing and finding E-70 Electones (for about $150 each) and again, one for left-hand and one for right-hand. […]

 

 

Fellow E70 owner here. Bought one for 130 euros some time ago (yay!), and now in the middle of converting the 3 built-in preset synths (8 voices per manual, monophonic for the 25-note pedal, all 3 assignable to one manual) to programmable synths with a decent interface. The E70 has the same filters and envelopes as the CS80, but digital (= stable) oscillators. Massive fun indeed. And (referring to an earlier post) one of the reasons the Chorus/Tremolo on the GX80 didn't confuse me :). Reading this thread, I was waiting for the first E70 owner to show up😇

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On 12/17/2022 at 7:56 AM, mate stubb said:

I'm interested in the approach to modelling a particular instrument. Does one model at the component level down to resistors and caps or just model the behavior of a particular subcircuit?

 

Great question.  You can model at three different levels.

 

1 ) Component level: This is where you calculate the currents through all the parts in the circuit.  This process is very CPU intensive and converges on the final value for a given sample after many iterations.  It is my opinion that anyone claiming to be doing this in their simulations is lying, but I could be wrong.

 

2) Circuit level: This is where the code imitates what the parts are doing.  For example, if there is a linear integrator, the code increments a value.  It does not simulate an op-amp with a capacitor in the feedback loop.

 

3) Terminal analog: This is where you write code that replicates the output (terminus) of a given circuit or system.  The code couldn't care less how the circuit accomplished the task.

 

The GX-80 uses a combination of the second and third methods.  For example, the way the CS-80 handles velocity and pressure is very complicated and had to be circuit modeled in order to capture the behavior.  The sub-oscillator uses method 3.  Which method to use comes down to experience and knowing what's important and what isn't.  CPU resources are precious and it makes no sense to component model a gate signal.

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When I heard about the GX-80, I immediately bought it, it's a fantastic piece of software.  A few years ago I built a hardware controller for the Arturia CS-80V and I quickly put it to use on the GX-80.  It's lacking the GX-80 specific controls at present, but it covers the bulk of them. The controller is based on the MIDIBox/MIOS designs of Thorsten Klose (ucapps.de).  The  panel was laid out in Front Panel Designer.  I use an Oberheim/Viscount MC3000 master controller with a homebrew Arduino based ribbon controller. Positioning is relative, anywhere I put my finger becomes the zero point.  Topping it off is a set of  Andrew McPherson's TouchKeys sensors on  61 keys of the MC3000,which allows me to use polyphonic aftertouch, or other controller parameters. This setup will keep me busy exploring for some time.  I also create a Remote Map for Reason to allow me to use the  controller inside Reason, though I still have a few  bugs to work out on that. Needless to say, this setup doesn't move.  I thought others might be interested in seeing this. 

 

-AJ 

GX80_Mbox.jpg

GX80_Tkeys.jpg

GX80_Full.jpg

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On 12/11/2022 at 6:18 AM, Adrian Lee said:

I managed to grab a Kurzweil expressionmate way back when I first got the Arturia CS-80v.  It’s still hangin in there…. just. In combination with the Poly AT on my Elka MK88, it’s a reasonable CS-80 experience. 

I was looking for a more controlled approach to using the ribbon controller and I found it in my old m-audio axiom. The 8 pads on that thing are pressure sensitive. I have each  pair calibrated +/- as follows: A tone, a 4th, a  5th, an octave. 


As we know, only held notes respond to the ribbon. This allows the pads, in combination with sustain, to create what we might call  ‘pedal steel’ effects. 
Having just the low note of a ringing chord swoop down an octave is a beautiful thing! As long as fingers are off the keys when the pad is released, the pitch doesn’t spring back. 
It’s also a cool way to get those quick trills and fall offs. 
 

Adrian 

This is freaking EPIC! I did a very similar trick years ago with my Xpander and a Samson Graphite 49, whose pads can send poly aftertouch. This sort of thing can be so expressive! There are other ways to do it, like interpreting the sustain pedal a certain way or having the pitch bender watch which notes you're holding down (Chroma Polaris, anyone?). 

 

Also: Hi Adrian (and Gabriel) and welcome to the fam.

 

mike

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On 12/11/2022 at 9:10 PM, mate stubb said:

Makes one wish for a hardware controller that was just a narrow long strip with paddles. Hmmm, I'd hate to cannibalize a working YC-45, but if one could find some carcasses...

I've heard worse ideas, to be honest. It's the one part of the experience that really does fall short, even on an amazing keyboard like the Hydrasynth. 

 

I wonder how many of those things are still out there, considering that the paddles are themselves very expensive to make and in high demand? And if there are a lot of them, why haven't CS-80 repairmen started scooping them up by the dumpsterload?

 

mike

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On 12/17/2022 at 8:56 AM, mate stubb said:

I'm interested in the approach to modelling a particular instrument. Does one model at the component level down to resistors and caps or just model the behavior of a particular subcircuit?

Hi Moe!

 

This is a very interesting question that goes way beyond the scope of this thread, but let me pass along a few things:

 

The short answer is Yes, or more accurately, It Depends.

 

Every software team approaches modeling in a different way. There aren't any hard and fast rules; in the case of CA code, Mr. Barton has already given an excellent and detailed answer.

 

One interesting example of how different approaches lead to different results comes within the current argument among users of Roland gear. There are actually several types of modeling in the Roland arsenal today, but of particular interest are ACB and DCB, which respectively model individual components (Mark's Level 1) vs. circuits and collections of circuits taken as a whole (Mark's Level 2).

 

Roland is particularly proud of the Boutique Series synths that use ACB. The designers went all the way down to the component level, and built upward from there; whenever they ran into a behavior that wasn't quite right, they went to their mentors – the original designers of the hardware! – and walked through the designs with them to get everything exactly right. The end result is a synthesizer that I think could fool anyone in a blind A/B comparison; one of the very best modeling platforms anywhere. The problem is that ACB is so enormously processor-hungry that Roland couldn't build one with more than 4-note polyphony when the Boutiques first came out.

 

DCB, by contrast, is comparatively CPU-light; as a result, you can get enormous polyphony out of it (64 voices and more). However, the DCB-based emulations in some hardware and in the Roland Cloud are considered excellent but not precise by most folks who hear them. I have heard more than one owner of the original Roland gear say that while the DCB emulations sound really good and would be fine in a mix, you could take an ACB Roland synth out on a gig and set it up out of sight, play it from the original synth via MIDI, and no one in the audience would ever know they weren't hearing the real thing. 

 

I have two of those ACB synths and based on my experiences with them and the originals, I am sure I would be fooled under those conditions.

 

Hope this helps a bit,

 

mike

 

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How to Use the Komplete Kontrol Ribbon Controller with the GX-80

 

The eternal question...what hands-on controller do you use for the GX-80 ribbon? If you have a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol keyboard with a touchstrip, it's not hard to set it up for the GX-80. 

 

1. Open the Komplete Kontrol application in stand-alone mode. You can’t define how the ribbon controller (touchstrip) works when Komplete Kontrol is used as a plug-in.

2. Click on the MIDI button, and then on the Touchstrip label.

 

image.png.655953678b2b6427db6ae4baaa3aa8a0.png

 

3. Under Assign, choose Pitchbend.

4. Strength doesn’t set the pitch bend amount, but rather the “snapback” time to center when you take your finger off the ribbon controller. At 100%, the snapback time is instantaneous. At 0%, it takes about 3 seconds for the pitch bend to glide smoothly back to 0. I usually leave it at 100% so I can do the keyboard equivalent of hammer-ons.

 

There are ways to use Komplete Kontrol as a control surface for the GX-80, but getting into the weeds about how to create that kind of template would be outside the scope of this thread, and would be different for different DAWs. However, if you go that route, after creating a template you don’t want to lose it—which you will if your hard drive crashes. Or maybe you’re going to do a re-install, or want your templates on a different computer. For more information, a helpful document on the NI website tells where to find the Komplete Kontrol Mk2 settings.dat file so you can copy it, or back it up.

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On 12/27/2022 at 2:24 AM, Dr Mike Metlay said:

There are actually several types of modeling in the Roland arsenal today, but of particular interest are ACB and DCB, which respectively model individual components (Mark's Level 1) vs. circuits and collections of circuits taken as a whole (Mark's Level 2).

 

Roland is particularly proud of the Boutique Series synths that use ACB. The designers went all the way down to the component level, and built upward from there; whenever they ran into a behavior that wasn't quite right, they went to their mentors – the original designers of the hardware! – and walked through the designs with them to get everything exactly right. The end result is a synthesizer that I think could fool anyone in a blind A/B comparison; one of the very best modeling platforms anywhere. The problem is that ACB is so enormously processor-hungry that Roland couldn't build one with more than 4-note polyphony when the Boutiques first came out.

 

DCB, by contrast, is comparatively CPU-light; as a result, you can get enormous polyphony out of it (64 voices and more). However, the DCB-based emulations in some hardware and in the Roland Cloud are considered excellent but not precise by most folks who hear them.

 

I believe you're talking about ACB vs. ABM (not DCB), which are their approaches to digitally recreating an analog synth. DCB is for recreating, not analog synths, but rather, a synth that was digital to begin with. So a given synth modeled by ACB (which would have been an analog synth) cannot also be modeled by DCB (which is for digital synths).

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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On 12/16/2022 at 1:00 PM, Al Coda said:

 

 

Well,- after I was unable to get your JS plugin recognized in Reaper, the above did it,- almost,- so thx a lot !

Important:

The resulting JS plugin should NOT go into a/the "MIDI"-folder you mentioned above.

Instead I placed it into the "Effects" root-folder once Reaper showed it´s ressouces path and voilà,- it got recognized then.

 

Works pretty well w/ ME80 ! :thu:

 

Now it would be interesting to create a VST plugin from JS code plugin,- just only to use it in other hosts too.

I googled already but haven´t found yet ...

 

As an alternative I´ll try to install the "ReaPlugs" you mentioned above into a seperate vstplugins folder not being scanned by Reaper, then try using ReaJS w/ your code in other hosts.

 

we´ll see,-

 

:)

 

A.C.

 

Hi A.C.,

 

maybe you could be interested in a new version of my plugin which introduces smooth transitions in After Touch when a new note is pressed. The picture shows how it works: it shows the poly-AT messages generated (as a function of time in seconds) when C4, C5 and C6 are pressed one after the other. The first transition happens as normally expected. When the second key is pressed, the AT of the first goes to zero exponentially and the AT of the second goes up in the same way (flipped exponential). When the last note is released, we see first the AT going down, as finger pressure on the key diminishes…then a small exponential decay can be seen at the end when the note off message is generated. Basically, it is the same response as a one-pole low pass filter (what is called an RC low-pass) to abrupt transitions.

C4_C5_C6_attack220ms_release500ms_update256samples.png.b74fc914bee0dff5655370caefbcc76f.png

 

The smooth transitions are active if “Reset Held Notes” is on. New parameters have been added to control the behavior of the script:
Attack and release time constans (in ms): the transitions can last up to ~2 seconds (500 ms time constant)
AT update period: during the transitions, a new poly-AT message is sent every AT-period samples. Increasing this parameter, decreases the amount of poly-AT messages sent for given attack and release times.

I have also updated the installation instructions in the txt files (the zip contains both the old and the new version of the script with different names: midipressuretopoly and midipressuretopolylag ). The install instructions should be correct for Reaper, too.

I think the new version produces a more realistic poly-AT feel and it is also more "musical", so to say.

 

Gabriel

midipressure_to_polyAT_1.zip

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3 hours ago, GabrielPas64 said:

Hi A.C.,

 

maybe you could be interested in a new version of my plugin which introduces smooth transitions in After Touch when a new note is pressed.

 

Happy new year!

Downloaded,- and I´ll try ASAP, then I´ll report back.

 

Thx a lot,-

 

:)

 

A.C.

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On 1/4/2023 at 11:59 AM, GabrielPas64 said:

maybe you could be interested in a new version of my plugin

 

Hi Gabriel !

 

I tested this version, but unfortunately, it doesn´t work as expected.

Your previous version still works w/ 3rd party plugin like Memorymoon ME80 in Reaper,- but your new version affects all notes in a chord like channel AT does.

 

Would be cool when you´re ABLE TO FIX:

 

And again, your advise how to install in Reaper seems not to be correct.

For me, in Reaper (latest version) and on a Win10 Pro laptop, also the former (working !) version only works, when following your instalation guide,- but only WHEN the "as new" created JS plugin is copied into the JS > EFFECTS folder and NOT into the Effects-Subfolder "MIDI" !!!

 

:)

 

A.C.

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On 1/5/2023 at 11:29 PM, Al Coda said:

but your new version affects all notes in a chord like channel AT does.

Hey Al. that is quite strange because the output is Poly AT. I've used it on several other plugins and it's behaving as expected.  Have you tried placing a midi monitor after the script to see what's coming out, and maybe compared to the previous version?

 

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22 minutes ago, Adrian Lee said:

that is quite strange because the output is Poly AT. I've used it on several other plugins and it's behaving as expected.  Have you tried placing a midi monitor after the script to see what's coming out, and maybe compared to the previous version?

 

Well, I can try that ...

I just double checked ME80 supports true poly AT and according to the manual, it does.

So,- I wonder why it doesn´t work, especially because the "AT to Last Note" did.

 

:)

 

A.C.

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4 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

Well, I can try that ...

I just double checked ME80 supports true poly AT and according to the manual, it does.

So,- I wonder why it doesn´t work, especially because the "AT to Last Note" did.

 

:)

 

A.C.

 

Hi A.C.,

 

I am wondering the same. That's why I am spending some time debugging the script. I can confirm that channel pressure should not go through it (it never does on my system). It also seems that most of the time the script works as expected. However, there were a few situations which were not handled correctly, so that the attack portion was not generated, with the poly-AT value jumping immediately at the final value. Sometimes the poly-AT value was not updated until a new midi message was received. Therefore, I am now doing a deep debug (I have even written a script in python to analyse the midifiles that I am producing with the script's output) trying to smash even the smallest bugs. I have also downloaded the demo of ME-80, to try to reproduce your problem (but I have not tried it yet). At the moment, the small bugs that were present seem to be gone, as can be seen in this picture: horizontal lines show the keys I have pressed (the vertical scale is their midi number) while the curves show the poly-AT messages generated by the script (with colors corresponding to the notes). I can't spot anything strange. Anyway, I hope to get back to you after checking with ME-80.

Thank you for your patience.

Gabriel

 

test_script_polyAT.png.44fb86252f19b549d7e0017cff0d6c7c.png

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11 hours ago, GabrielPas64 said:

I can confirm that channel pressure should not go through it (it never does on my system). It also seems that most of the time the script works as expected. However, there were a few situations which were not handled correctly, so that the attack portion was not generated, with the poly-AT value jumping immediately at the final value. Sometimes the poly-AT value was not updated until a new midi message was received. Therefore, I am now doing a deep debug (I have even written a script in python to analyse the midifiles that I am producing with the script's output) trying to smash even the smallest bugs. I have also downloaded the demo of ME-80, to try to reproduce your problem (but I have not tried it yet). At the moment, the small bugs that were present seem to be gone, as can be seen in this picture: horizontal lines show the keys I have pressed (the vertical scale is their midi number) while the curves show the poly-AT messages generated by the script (with colors corresponding to the notes). I can't spot anything strange. Anyway, I hope to get back to you after checking with ME-80.

Thank you for your patience.

Gabriel

 

Well, I got it working w/ the occasional exceptions you´re describing above.

The biggest problem is always finding the right way to make the JS plugins visible in Reaper and showing correct name etc.,- ONCE the script is inside the "Effects > MIDI" folder.

 

Hint:

ME80 has "MIDI channel pressure to last note" already built in and it had already way prior to the release of CA GX-80 !

So,- MIDI channel aftertouch to MIDI last note isn´t a Cherry Audio invention at all.

This feature is storable per patch in ME80,- so, to test your scripts w/ ME80, you go to aftertouch settings which look like the typical CS80 paddle-levers in the GUI,- and below, you´r able to switch between ALL (notes) and LAST note.

Set to ALL !

 

With your 1st script, my interest was finding out who´s method is better,- CA or Memorymoon´s.

For me,- both work fine.

 

But now, your advanced script is a step up,- congrats !

When debugged, I´m happy to test it again.

 

:)

 

A.C.

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3 hours ago, Al Coda said:

So,- MIDI channel aftertouch to MIDI last note isn´t a Cherry Audio invention at all.

Not sure that was claimed. Tim Shoebridge, who, funnily enough, has provided some excellent introduction videos to some Cherry Audio products, including the GX-80, has a paid utility called PPG. It's been around a while. "Polyphonic Pressure Generator". 
 

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Hi folks, just a quick update: we just released a new version update for GX-80, version 1.0.13 (build 147), that adds optimized multithreaded processing for presets that utilize the Dual Layer or Split modes. This should give you a nice performance boost for these presets or your own sound designs!

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6 hours ago, Adrian Lee said:

Not sure that was claimed. Tim Shoebridge, who, funnily enough, has provided some excellent introduction videos to some Cherry Audio products, including the GX-80, has a paid utility called PPG. It's been around a while. "Polyphonic Pressure Generator". 
 

 

I am the one! 😁 I wrote, in the txt file I included with the script: "This idea of pseudo-poly-AT was implemented for the first time (AFAIK) in Cherry Audio's GX-80 VST plugin."
I stand corrected! I have updated the docs in the new version which I am about to upload.

 

Gabriel

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10 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

Well, I got it working w/ the occasional exceptions you´re describing above.

The biggest problem is always finding the right way to make the JS plugins visible in Reaper and showing correct name etc.,- ONCE the script is inside the "Effects > MIDI" folder.

 

Hint:

ME80 has "MIDI channel pressure to last note" already built in and it had already way prior to the release of CA GX-80 !

So,- MIDI channel aftertouch to MIDI last note isn´t a Cherry Audio invention at all.

This feature is storable per patch in ME80,- so, to test your scripts w/ ME80, you go to aftertouch settings which look like the typical CS80 paddle-levers in the GUI,- and below, you´r able to switch between ALL (notes) and LAST note.

Set to ALL !

 

With your 1st script, my interest was finding out who´s method is better,- CA or Memorymoon´s.

For me,- both work fine.

 

But now, your advanced script is a step up,- congrats !

When debugged, I´m happy to test it again.

 

:)

 

A.C.

 

Hi A.C.,

 

I am glad you were able to install and test the script. A new version is included here (with a pdf manual). I have tested it with ME-80, set according to your suggestion, and it works nicely. There is still the problem of the installation procedure in Reaper, which I would like to clarify. For now, the installation described in the docs is still the one which does not work for you. In the zip file you will find also a new script (midipressuretopolylagdel) which is able to delay the release of the poly-AT for the previous note, thus producing smoother transitions (it is explained in the pdf, with pictures).

 

All the best,

Gabriel

 

 

 

 

midipressure_to_polyAT.zip

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3 hours ago, GabrielPas64 said:

"This idea of pseudo-poly-AT was implemented for the first time (AFAIK) in Cherry Audio's GX-80 VST plugin."
I stand corrected! I have updated the docs in the new version which I am about to upload.

 

Gabriel

 

GunnarE (Memorymoon) released ME80 december 22, 2009.

The v2.0 version was released  july 29, 2014.

ME80 offers usage of MIDI channel pressure or MIDI pressure w/ last note priority alternately and storable per patch.

I´m the beta tester and this info comes from emails being stored on my office machine´s drive still.

I was also somewhat involved in Memorymoon "Memorymoon" and "Messiah" 32Bit version development in the past, which I did by interest because I wanted these plugins for myself.

 

It´s all no biggie IMO and I appreciate, GX-80 works the same.

But,- Gunnar and his partner coders were faster.

 

:)

 

A.C.

 

 

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3 hours ago, GabrielPas64 said:

I am glad you were able to install and test the script. A new version is included here (with a pdf manual). I have tested it with ME-80, set according to your suggestion, and it works nicely. There is still the problem of the installation procedure in Reaper, which I would like to clarify. For now, the installation described in the docs is still the one which does not work for you. In the zip file you will find also a new script (midipressuretopolylagdel) which is able to delay the release of the poly-AT for the previous note, thus producing smoother transitions (it is explained in the pdf, with pictures).

 

All the best,

Gabriel

 

 

 

Hello Gabriel !

 

Thank you,- just downloaded !

Will try tomorrow.

 

:)

 

A.C.

 

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On 1/10/2023 at 9:02 PM, Robert Saint John said:

Hi folks, just a quick update: we just released a new version update for GX-80, version 1.0.13 (build 147), that adds optimized multithreaded processing for presets that utilize the Dual Layer or Split modes. This should give you a nice performance boost for these presets or your own sound designs!

Maybe it's just me... but the new version seems to be quite a bit heavier on the cpu, esp. with the GX filters enabled.

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On 1/11/2023 at 1:06 PM, chaosmeister said:

Maybe it's just me... but the new version seems to be quite a bit heavier on the cpu, esp. with the GX filters enabled.

I can tell you that the GX filter uses microscopically more CPU than the CS filter, but I'm sure it's nothing you would actually notice.  The new, improved version is without a doubt much lighter on CPU.  Running it on my doddering, decade-old machine is proof.  In addition to the multi-threading improvements implemented by the brilliant Dan Goldstein, I also trimmed CPU usage in core routines down to the bone.  I'm an old school programmer to begin with and instinctively write routines with the intention of relieving the computer's burden as much as possible.  It's just that the GX-80 is quite the beast with a lot going on.

 

Here's a tip: If you are not using something, turn it off.  If a rank is not sounding, mute it.  If you are not using a VCO resonator, set its volume to zero.  If you are not using an effect, turn it off.  There is sensing everywhere in the software to skip execution of code that makes no difference to the sound.  Reducing polyphony is obvious, but by far the biggest suggestion I can offer is don't use the oversampling modes!!  They are not "quality" settings and will do nothing to improve the sound.  Unfortunately, some customers expect those buttons to be there so they're there.  Don't waste your precious machine cycles on them.

 

--mb

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On 1/11/2023 at 4:06 PM, chaosmeister said:

Maybe it's just me... but the new version seems to be quite a bit heavier on the cpu, esp. with the GX filters enabled.


Can you tell me what platform you're using, which OS and the specs of its CPU?

 

ADDED: we just released a build number 149 that may address your issue, let us know! Open up GX-80 and let it update. No download or restart required.

Digital Marketing 💻 Synth Freak 🎹 Dad to Chihuahuas & Cats 🐕🐈‍⬛ Director of Marketing Cherry Audio 🍒

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