Thinking about using an iPad...

[HammondDave]

Been using my ipad with Korg Module, Moog Model D, and  B3x for years. Still use it to double up on my new MODX7+ sounds.  Here is my performance rig. Super light and very fast to setup. The stand is all aluminum, the MODX7 is 16 lbs, the Mojo is 23 lbs, and the iPad maybe 1 lb. (I leave the Mojo at home and use the B3x for tight club setups). 
 

For emergencies, I just pull out my super lightweight Launchkey 88, plug it into the iPad, and play.  
 

 

 

[pizzafilms]

Is there something similar to MainStage on the iPad? What are you using there, @HammondDave?

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

32 minutes ago, pizzafilms said:

Is there something similar to MainStage on the iPad?

 

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/182695-main-stage-like-software-for-an-ipad/

 

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

1 hour ago, pizzafilms said:

Is there something similar to MainStage on the iPad?

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/182695-main-stage-like-software-for-an-ipad/

 

I don't believe that thread mentions AUM, another big dog in the "Mainstage-like" i-device world.

[UnderGroundGr]

Last week i bought Camelot pro for my ipad 9th gen for 24 euros. I have many non AUv3 plugins and i cannot use them so i asked for refund and i bought Apematrix for 7 euros and i started to experiment. Very nice program!

[drawback]

13 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

I don't believe that thread mentions AUM, another big dog in the "Mainstage-like" i-device world.

I must have missed that thread! 😉

 

10 hours ago, UnderGroundH said:

Last week i bought Camelot pro for my ipad 9th gen for 24 euros. I have many non AUv3 plugins and i cannot use them so i asked for refund and i bought Apematrix for 7 euros and i started to experiment. Very nice program!

Camelot iOS supports IAA - what plug-ins were you trying?

[HammondDave]

14 hours ago, pizzafilms said:

Is there something similar to MainStage on the iPad? What are you using there, @HammondDave?

 

 

 

 

I don't need a program like MainStage. I don't even use AUM.  I follow the set list simultaneously on Korg Module and the MODX.  I don't have the patience to start dealing with external program changes, etc. Now that I have the MODX, it takes care of 90% of my non-Hammond sounds. I only use the Moog for the opening of Synchronicity II... all other synth sounds are fine on the MODX and Korg Module.  

 

Maybe one day I will sit down and figure out AUM and program changes.  But for now, "keep it simple" seems to be the way to go.

[Reezekeys]

49 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

AUM and program changes

 

IMO there's no need to use program changes with AUM. I use only one AUM setup on a gig, with all the sounds I need for all the songs loaded. It's true that program changes can load different AUM setups but that seems impractical during a gig because this loading process takes time - the current setup is erased, and all instrument, midi and efx plugins of the new setup are loaded. I don't understand how anyone can have multiple AUM setups (I think they call them "sessions") that change song to song; I know it wouldn't work at all for the gigs I do. Instead I use Midiflow, a midi routing/switching/processing app, to activate the particular instrument plugins for each song. Program changes can be assigned to change Midiflow presets and it's instantaneous.

[HammondDave]

2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

IMO there's no need to use program changes with AUM. I use only one AUM setup on a gig, with all the sounds I need for all the songs loaded. It's true that program changes can load different AUM setups but that seems impractical during a gig because this loading process takes time - the current setup is erased, and all instrument, midi and efx plugins of the new setup are loaded. I don't understand how anyone can have multiple AUM setups (I think they call them "sessions") that change song to song; I know it wouldn't work at all for the gigs I do. Instead I use Midiflow, a midi routing/switching/processing app, to activate the particular instrument plugins for each song. Program changes can be assigned to change Midiflow presets and it's instantaneous.

 

I am still struggling wrapping my head around AUM and how I can integrate the set list function of the Korg Module.  Right now I am using the MODX to do my splits and assignments... But if I want to use the top octaves for my Model D, and the mid octaves for my Korg Module, how would that work? I have watched the videos and its a bit confusing. 

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, HammondDave said:

But if I want to use the top octaves for my Model D, and the mid octaves for my Korg Module, how would that work? I have watched the videos and its a bit confusing. 

 

An AUM channel containing an instrument plugin has a midi filtering section where you can specify note ranges, channels, controller #s, and specific message types to block or pass. That should let one set up a split where an instrument plugin only sounds over a certain range of notes.

 

Combined with the processing abilities of Midiflow, you can do pretty much anything - and as I said before, Midiflow presets can be mapped to program changes which allows instant switching between different combinations of iOS instruments. For sure, you have to climb a learning curve - working with AUM's midi matrix and keeping track of which channels your various iOS instruments are on can get daunting with a large setup. My entire rig is on iOS now - your situation sounds simpler than mine so shouldn't be that hard to set up. I do have to warn anyone considering Midiflow - it seems this app is abandoned. That's a shame because it's very powerful (once you pay for the add-ons!). There's a nasty bug I experience but found a workaround, and in regular use, so far, it's been stable.

[Stokely]

The "caveman" approach to splits and layers without something like mainstage, and with something like the Modx that has zones, is simply to use midi channels.  At my gigs I only used B-3X, one or two patches so no program changes, and no splits or layers (for the rare split needs I just used the internal Modx sounds).   However, I tested the following.

- get Model D, B-3X and Zeeon all running on the Ipad, and set to respond to three different midi channels, preferably above 8 to avoid Modx part conflicts.
- set up a performance with 4 zones: an internal sound, then 3 midi zones transmitting on the 3 channels set above in each app.   
- by default these zones would be layered, but of course you can set low and high key ranges for any Part in the Modx.

It worked well in testing.  It requires apps to be able to run in the background.   Obviously changing patches if you did this a lot would quickly become a nightmare if you had to focus on each app and change patches.    Maybe each zone could send a different program change, not sure (??)  it's the opposite approach to having a smart app (mainstage) be able to do complex things with a dumb controller; it means the controller has all the "smarts"

I also tested Midiflow quite a bit when I wanted to try more advanced routing--to have my ipad controlled by either of my keyboards, and to have the keyboards control each other!  It sort of worked, but it required "virtual ports" that introduced latency when I tried to do the more advanced routing.   End of the day, I just kept it simple with my single organ performance, mapping a  few of the organ controls to things like mod wheel, super knob etc.  Kind of handy that the bottom octave of the Modx7 was perfect for the organ presets (though it was easy to bump them by accident!)

[HammondDave]

There is a trick that my friend Ben Lipman told me about. The problem with using outside apps in splits is that you cannot set the split points for VST's simply by assigning the key range in the Song Performance screen.  You must create the appropriate note range as a SEPARATE Performance. For instance, if I wanted the B3X to play in some performances from C4 to G8 (due to the bottom half off the keyboard for a MODX or Korg Module sound), I would have to create a performance that I call "B3X Top". Then in the part edit menu, specify the key range from C4 to G8. Save it, then choose that B3X Top performance to be part of the song performance. I have three B3X performances that I choose from, B3X TOP, B3X Bottom, and BTX Full. 

 

The same goes for the Model D.  

 

The issue that I am having has to do with all these apps running concurrently. I have a 2021 iPad Pro with plenty of memory. But sometimes I cannot get the B3X or Model D to sound if the Korg Module is on the screen. Anyone have an answer to that?

[drawback]

25 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

The issue that I am having has to do with all these apps running concurrently. I have a 2021 iPad Pro with plenty of memory. But sometimes I cannot get the B3X or Model D to sound if the Korg Module is on the screen. Anyone have an answer to that?

That's the point. You can have an instance of Korg Module in any AUM channel strip, as well as AUs such as B3X in another strip, all running concurrently while you set your hardware faders to bring up any or all of the strips, like MainStage. I treat my AUM session as if it were a multi, with each of my sounds there for when I need to bring them in or out. Doesn't seem like what I'm doing is at all as complex as Reezekeys' setup, but it works for me.

[HammondDave]

37 minutes ago, drawback said:

That's the point. You can have an instance of Korg Module in any AUM channel strip, as well as AUs such as B3X in another strip, all running concurrently while you set your hardware faders to bring up any or all of the strips, like MainStage. I treat my AUM session as if it were a multi, with each of my sounds there for when I need to bring them in or out. Doesn't seem like what I'm doing is at all as complex as Reezekeys' setup, but it works for me.

 

Yeah, I may be expecting Korg Module to do something it was not designed to do. I run it exclusively in Set List mode, but AUM does not recognize this and plays Korg Module as if it is just a sound source (and not a splittable or layerable one at that).  I may have to rethink completely my performance setup. I can't use the MODX as my only setlist as Korg Module holds my PDF's of certain parts that I need to read. OY!

[Reezekeys]

I found that Korg Module's features differ when run as an AUv3 versus standalone. I was needing to remap the velocity curve, but that's a standalone feature only. AUM also runs apps in IAA mode so maybe you can use the setlist function like that, while still mixing & processing the audio in AUM.

[HammondDave]

3 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

I found that Korg Module's features differ when run as an AUv3 versus standalone. I was needing to remap the velocity curve, but that's a standalone feature only. AUM also runs apps in IAA mode so maybe you can use the setlist function like that, while still mixing & processing the audio in AUM.

Thanks.... I will give that a try.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, HammondDave said:

The issue that I am having has to do with all these apps running concurrently. I have a 2021 iPad Pro with plenty of memory. But sometimes I cannot get the B3X or Model D to sound if the Korg Module is on the screen. Anyone have an answer to that?

If you're running the three apps (and no other "hosting" and like AUM, Camelot Pro, or Keystage), it should work as long as those apps are all on different MIDI channels, and you have their background processing options enabled. Then they should play (or not) simply based on which MIDI channels you're transmitting on at any given time.

[hrestov]

Camelot is for live playing, Aum is for studio. 
Camelot: 

- can create set list for split and layer hardware and software instruments. It loads only instruments that you need for each song. So a cpu and ram saver. 

- manage internal sound of hardware keyboard, with a sync between Camelot and hardware you can have the name of presets of hardware in Camelot interface. 
- seamless transition between scene

- can do split, layer, velocity remapping, velocity filter, cc remapping and filter, it can do all you want 

- manage sheets and score for each scene 

- play backing track and you can change scene automatically when you arrive in a specific point of the backing track

- other thing that I don’t use. 

 

Camelot is Italian and I’m Italian, so herr is quite a standard for all purpose keyboardist. So it is tested and affidable. 

 

[UnderGroundGr]

20 hours ago, drawback said:

I must have missed that thread! 😉

 

Camelot iOS supports IAA - what plug-ins were you trying?

I tried to use bias fx and bias amp but I cannot load to Camelot pro...

[ShadowMan]

19 hours ago, drawback said:

That's the point. You can have an instance of Korg Module in any AUM channel strip, as well as AUs such as B3X in another strip, all running concurrently while you set your hardware faders to bring up any or all of the strips, like MainStage. I treat my AUM session as if it were a multi, with each of my sounds there for when I need to bring them in or out. Doesn't seem like what I'm doing is at all as complex as Reezekeys' setup, but it works for me.

 

This is what I’m doing, but B3X is always a bit distorted and overdriven compared to Module or Ravenscroft in AUM.  Yet it’s clean when played in the app alone. Can’t figure it out. 

 

Is anyone else having similar issues - or does anyone have thoughts on this?
Thanks!

[hrestov]

19 hours ago, UnderGroundH said:

I tried to use bias fx and bias amp but I cannot load to Camelot pro...

If they don’t load it means that they aren’t in auv3 format.  Maybe bias 2 is in auv3 format. 
Nowaday it’s a nonsense use app that aren’t auv3. 
 

[drawback]

9 hours ago, hrestov said:

If they don’t load it means that they aren’t in auv3 format.  Maybe bias 2 is in auv3 format. 
Nowaday it’s a nonsense use app that aren’t auv3. 
 

Camelot will load AUv3 plug-ins as well as IAA apps such as Module, but it doesn’t appear IAA plug-ins will load. Both of those bias plugins are IAA as stated in their descriptions.

[pizzafilms]

Thank you, everyone. This has been super helpful! 

[RandyFF]

For those of you that want to keep it simple, like running 1 app at a time and have minimal cabling, and if you don’t have a Yamaha or Numa with an audio interface built-in.

 

BT MIDI WORKS!  No noticeable lag.  So your BT MIDI capable keyboard sends your playing to your iPad, and from there it’s a simple 1/8” cable to the Aux In of your keyboard.  Glorious!  Didn’t realize until a few days ago how useable BT MIDI is.  Makes using an iPad for one sound a slam dunk, love it!

 

For someone like myself that wants the fewest technical hassles and has minimal needs, which of the programs like AUM and Camelot are the easiest to understand, program and troubleshoot?  AUM?  Camelot?  Others?  I’m talking a 1 keyboard setup with 2-3 external sounds and the BT MIDI and 1/8” cabling I described above.  Unfortunately I don’t have a controller board or a board with controller features, not even a pitch bend.

[AnotherScott]

17 minutes ago, RandyFF said:

For someone like myself that wants the fewest technical hassles and has minimal needs, which of the programs like AUM and Camelot are the easiest to understand, program and troubleshoot?  AUM?  Camelot?  Others?  I’m talking a 1 keyboard setup with 2-3 external sounds and the BT MIDI and 1/8” cabling I described above. 

 

While waiting for some newer replies that may be more specific to this scenario, you may find useful info in these threads...

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/182692-ipad-au-instruments-host-with-lowest-latency/

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/180530-gig-report-first-quotall-iosquot-long/

 

[BenWaB3]

1 hour ago, RandyFF said:

For those of you that want to keep it simple, like running 1 app at a time and have minimal cabling, and if you don’t have a Yamaha or Numa with an audio interface built-in.

 

BT MIDI WORKS!  No noticeable lag.  So your BT MIDI capable keyboard sends your playing to your iPad, and from there it’s a simple 1/8” cable to the Aux In of your keyboard.  Glorious!  Didn’t realize until a few days ago how useable BT MIDI is.  Makes using an iPad for one sound a slam dunk, love it!

 

For someone like myself that wants the fewest technical hassles and has minimal needs, which of the programs like AUM and Camelot are the easiest to understand, program and troubleshoot?  AUM?  Camelot?  Others?  I’m talking a 1 keyboard setup with 2-3 external sounds and the BT MIDI and 1/8” cabling I described above.  Unfortunately I don’t have a controller board or a board with controller features, not even a pitch bend.

 

I'll add a voice of respectful disagreement here. I was using the Yamaha BT MIDI dongle & getting glitches or hiccups when playing virtual instruments on the iPad from the Hammond XKPro. I just went to a wired setup last week & the glitches went away. It could be that there was just something amiss with my system though. I do want to thank Reezekeys and drawback for offering great advice on this problem.

[Docbop]

So who was it only  SNL that keep saying.... Let's Get Small.      Think it was Steve Martin.

 

So why go with a big cumbersome iPad when you could just use your iPhone 6.

 

 

[BenWaB3]

4 minutes ago, Docbop said:

So who was it only  SNL that keep saying.... Let's Get Small.      Think it was Steve Martin.

 

So why go with a big cumbersome iPad when you could just use your iPhone 6.

 

 

 

Not the answer you were originally looking for but........

 

(139) Trouble Funk - Let's Get Small (1982) - YouTube

 

Yeah, I like a lot of John Mike's videos.

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

While waiting for some newer replies that may be more specific to this scenario, you may find useful info in these threads...

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/182692-ipad-au-instruments-host-with-lowest-latency/

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/180530-gig-report-first-quotall-iosquot-long/

 

 

That last link is to a thread I started which I just read again, and boy have things changed since I wrote that! That thread started with my post basically saying the iOS world is not happening for me. That was then! I have a very usable piano on my iOS devices now. Also I was not liking the Galileo organ but now that I've spent time with it I think it's just peachy. I will say that the interface is complicated and there are lots of parameters to deal with, so finding your way to a good sound might take a while. I've also gotten used to the Scarbee Rhodes in Korg Module, and I use the Korg stock strings and clav which are OK – good enough for me since I only use them as sweetening or as part of an ensemble where they're not too out front.

 

So tomorrow I leave for Seattle WA to do AWB's annual gig at Jazz Alley, Seattle's famous jazz club. I always assumed any iOS rig I came up with would serve me for my little local gigs but couldn't replace my "touring" rig (a MacBook Pro with NI pianos, other high-end plugs)... well I may be about to prove myself wrong because I'm going to try playing the gig using my 6-year old iPhone SE 2016! I could not have made this happen without two apps: VirSyns' AudioLayer and Audeonic's Streambyter. AudioLayer is the sampler that has my piano, guitar and horn sounds sampled from my Mac rig. Streambyter is a midi programmer's powerhouse that's allowed me to essentially duplicate the functionality of the Plogue Bidule setup on my Mac. Speaking of the Mac, it will be with me as backup - turned on and running in parallel for at least the first few shows should I need to do a quick changeover. You can't be too careful, but so far, at home, the phone has performed almost flawlessly over the last few weeks of testing. All this at a 128 buffer too, very playable. I also credit Midiflow with making this possible.

[RandyFF]

On 12/6/2022 at 6:41 PM, BenWaB3 said:

 

I'll add a voice of respectful disagreement here. I was using the Yamaha BT MIDI dongle & getting glitches or hiccups when playing virtual instruments on the iPad from the Hammond XKPro. I just went to a wired setup last week & the glitches went away. It could be that there was just something amiss with my system though. I do want to thank Reezekeys and drawback for offering great advice on this problem.

 

Cool name BenWaB3!

Wasn’t speaking for the overall reliability of BT MIDI- though you’re the first I’ve heard someone suspect it was a problem.  When in doubt, use a cable.  And as we all know, it’s sometimes really frustrating, you suspect but don’t know for sure why there’s a problem, it can be anyone of a number of things like an interaction of apps/hardware, the OS, a random setting that’s throws things off, etc.

 

The main points of my post was

- being thrilled that BT MIDI was useable- what a lifesaver from dealing with cables, boxes and interfaces!  And it’s built-in to my ES920, so an automatic go there.  And silly me, it’s taken me this long to explore and find out it’s latency is not a problem, unlike BT Audio

 

- wanting to give a simple but instructive description of how easy it is to use.  Perhaps with this group that’s not as much of a public service, but speaking for myself, I REALLY appreciate when people describe hookups like this in easy to understand ways and don’t assume you know all the steps.  Until I have done a process, I find it hard to visualize and so I appreciate when people baby-step it for me.

 

- and as an extension of that, I wanted to spread the good word to people. Until recently I didn’t realize that that can be a major selling point for a board- that even without an audio interface, you can use laptop/ iPad instruments IF you have BT MIDI and an Aux In, and all you need is a simple 1/8” cable.  That’s freaking fantastic!