Is Donner the next Behringer or Peavy?

[RABid]

In the late 70's and all through the 80's if you were young, had limited income, and were starting a band you most likely had a Peavy PA and possibly Peavy guitar and bass amps on stage. Then Behringer came along with a bigger selection and cheaper prices. Lately I have noticed more and more items on Amazon by Donner. I have a couple of their guitar pedals, purchased when I wanted to build a complete pedal board under $200. When I bought them they were $20-25. I notice now they are closer to $50. Lately they have been recruiting YouTube reviewers and expanding into areas such as percussion, MIDI controllers and analog synths. As an established musician that already has all the equipment I need, I have no interest ing buying anything more from them, but I am wondering if I am seeing a shift to the next major budget manufacturer. 

[Anderton]

Just what the world needs: another company making pseudo-Strats, Teles, and Les Pauls, at cheap prices...and a line of pedals including the never-before-seen-on-planet-earth distortion, overdrive, wah-wah, delay, noise gate, and reverb. But it could be fun to take these apart, mod them, and make them cool for not a lot of $$.

 

More power to them if they can convert the younger demographic they seek to a lifetime of playing music, and if the stuff is equal to or better than what else is out there (Monoprice et al). My main concern is if the build quality for the guitars is so inconsistent, or the effects so noisy, they'll turn people off to playing music while the company rides off into the sunset with a quick buck.

 

Interesting comment from what appears to be a non-Donner created website:

 

"Is Donner a trusted website?"

Overview: Donnerdeal has a consumer rating of 2.14 stars from 26 reviews indicating that most customers are generally dissatisfied with their purchases. Consumers complaining about Donnerdeal most frequently mention customer service problems. Donnerdeal ranks 52nd among Music Equipment sites.

 

There's a discussion on a Strat website that basically says if you don't have a lot of bucks and want to learn your guitar setup, mod, and DIY skills, you could do worse. I thought these comments in particular are insightful:

 

Assuming you enjoy working on guitars and have the tools and skills to do it, it depends a lot on how new it is. Older, meaning more than about a year old, ones were really bottom on the barrel, kind of like "Best Choice" or Glarry. Recently, they've upped their quality slightly in an attempt to position themselves between the rock bottom and brand names like Squier, Ibanez and Yamaha.

A lot of the lower end builders have found a neck formula that works well enough to produce a playable neck. This usually means a flat, 14 to 16 inch radius, with medium-jumbo frets. I don't know if Donner is using this but it helps them avoid the need for a lot of hand fret work. This can make the neck playable with a lower chance of buzz but it's also a profile that won't be appreciated by traditional Strat fans.

The electronics is the main cost cutting area. Generally, you'll find the same pickups you can buy on EBay for $3 or so. You can throw $10 to $20 pickups in these guitars and see a considerable improvement. The pots and caps can be OK or wildly off spec. Test them and see how they are. The switch and jack may work but are prone to breaking. I've bought several cheap "broken" guitars where all that was needed to fix them was replacing one or both of these.

Hardware is cheap too, of course, The bridge/trem will work best if you deck it, probably adding a couple of extra springs. If you want a useable trem, you'll have to find one that fits and that has a heavier block, not always easy to do. Tuners will probably work OK although they won't be that precise. Like with the pickups, you can find better replacements on EBay for about $20.

The nut is likely to be a problem area so be prepared to deal with it, either by cutting it right or replacing it.

[KuruPrionz]

I don't consider Peavey to be in the same category at all. 2 big reasons and probably many smaller ones. 

 

The first company to manufacture solid body electric guitars using CNC machines was Peavey. Now that is very common and it is a primary reason that there are some nicely made guitars at lower prices. Hartley Peavey was out hunting with friends and one of them loaned him a rifle. He inquired how the stock could fit the action so precisely and his friend told him it was done with a CNC machine so he bought one and started making guitars. 

 

While it is largely overlooked and definitely under-rated, TransTube is a fantastic circuit. It is an analog solid state emulation of a tube guitar amp, from front to back. So many "tube emulations" depend on the preamp to get the sound. That doesn't quite work. Others are digital, they may sound good but they don't "feel right". 

The Transtube amps I've owned and own sound fantastic and it feels right. It did take a little time to learn how to dial them in (turn the Post Gain way up!) but they kick serious ass and I've owned 9 Mesa Boogies, several Fenders including vintage Tweeds, an Allen, a RedPlate Blues Machine and played through just about any of the great tube amps you could mention. I can get that smooth, singing tone that responds to your attack and has just the right amount of "sag" with Transtube. I've played many other tube emulations, some are better than others but none have impressed me as much as TransTube. 

 

Behringer is pretty much a shit company by comparison. I don't know anything about the Donner stuff but they've got a steep hill to climb to be the next Peavey. 

I don't care if they become the new Behringer, I don't own any of that stuff anyway. 

[Anderton]

Peavey had the misfortune to be ahead of its time with many products. People didn't understand them, so they dismissed them. Peavey also continued to improve reliability over time. Once when visiting the factory, I saw that large capacitors in the power amps were hot-glued to the circuit board. It added time and manufacturing expense, and the leads were pretty thick so soldering them with the capacitors up against the board would almost certainly have been more than enough. When I asked Hartley why he hot-glued the capacitors, he said "Craig, when these things leave the factory, I never want to see them again."

 

There are also some "big one that got away" stories. Apparently Hartley had a way to do MIDI guitar that had vastly superior tracking. However, when Peavey's MIDI synths and such didn't sell all that well, it seems like it was abandoned.

[RABid]

My first PA was Peavey. My first guitar amp was Peavey. My first bass amp was Peavey. They all had something in common. You could get loud on a budget, but the sound was not really pleasant. Not quite like a blanket thrown over the speakers, but close. We called it "the Peavey sound" back in the 80's. You used it until you could afford to move to Crown amps and JBL or EV speakers. But I remember that at that age we focused on what we could afford. Funny, the one real disappointment in budget equipment back then for me was an Ibanez Les Paul copy. It looked really pretty but it would not stay in tune. That was truly a case of a cheap instrument hurting the development of a young musician. Now I own two higher end Ibanez guitars. It's like a totally different company than they were in the early 80's.

 

I think Peavey really turned it around when they released a nice bass. It was a very respectable instrument that changed the way some people thought about the company. I also have a Vypyr guitar amp. Not bad, but also not a Katana.

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, RABid said:

My first PA was Peavey. My first guitar amp was Peavey. My first bass amp was Peavey. They all had something in common. You could get loud on a budget, but the sound was not really pleasant. Not quite like a blanket thrown over the speakers, but close. We called it "the Peavey sound" back in the 80's. You used it until you could afford to move to Crown amps and JBL or EV speakers. But I remember that at that age we focused on what we could afford. Funny, the one real disappointment in budget equipment back then for me was an Ibanez Les Paul copy. It looked really pretty but it would not stay in tune. That was truly a case of a cheap instrument hurting the development of a young musician. Now I own two higher end Ibanez guitars. It's like a totally different company than they were in the early 80's.

 

I think Peavey really turned it around when they released a nice bass. It was a very respectable instrument that changed the way some people thought about the company. I also have a Vypyr guitar amp. Not bad, but also not a Katana.

I've owned 4 Peavey Vypyrs and 2 Boss Katanas (an original 100 watt combo and a 50 watt MK II combo). I still have the Katana 50 but now that I've learned how to dial in the Vypyr VIP 1 I have with a Scorpion 10" mounted to a custom speaker baffle, I'll be selling the Boss. It isn't even close to sounding as good and I've spent considerable time with both Katanas (gigged the 100 watt at all power settings for a couple of years) and they are great amps but the Peavey eats their lunch for tone. 

Your mileage may vary but I will say that the Boss amps come with better speakers from the factory, the VIP 1 had a crappy 8" in it. The 10" Scorpion made a big difference. I've since gotten another VIP 1 and another Scorpion 10", will be making another baffle and those will be my amps. 

[KenElevenShadows]

In defense of Peavey:

I own the Peavey VMP-2 tube mic preamp. It's no longer available, so you don't need to scurry over to Sweetwater. It sounds great and is really well built. They're not super common, but you're not going to see a lot of them on the used market either because, well, they are pretty amazing.

 

I have played with a Peavey analog synth at NAMM which never made it to market. Pity. I spent all this time telling people how cool it was, only to find that they never released it. 

 

In defense of Donner:

I purchased the Donner DP-2 Guitar Pedal Power Supply in 2017. It's gotten a lot of use, and it works great and does exactly what it should do. The price was only $39.

 

In defense of Behringer:

Hahahahahahahahaha!! 

[Anderton]

Another thing about Peavey...for a long time, Hartley didn't lay people off when business slumped. This came up when I visited during a recession, and companies were letting people go left and right. I was surprised he didn't, and asked about it. "Well Craig, there's always stuff that needs to be done, like something needs to be painted or machines need maintenance or whatever. If I lay people off, I'm just going to have to hire new people in six months, go through the whole hiring process, and re-train them. That doesn't make sense."

[Shamanzarek]

I worked at Fender from 1973-1975. One day they brought in this new machine. I asked about it and was told it was designed to manufacture rifle stocks and they were going to try use it to make guitar necks. That machine sat in a corner for a long time and nobody ever figured out how to make guitar necks on it. I think there was only one occasion where I saw somebody trying to do something with it. Fender necks continued to be cut out on a band saw and shaped by hand on electric sanders.

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, Shamanzarek said:

I worked at Fender from 1973-1975. One day they brought in this new machine. I asked about it and was told it was designed to manufacture rifle stocks and they were going to try use it to make guitar necks. That machine sat in a corner for a long time and nobody ever figured out how to make guitar necks on it. I think there was only one occasion where I saw somebody trying to do something with it. Fender necks continued to be cut out on a band saw and shaped by hand on electric sanders.

Which is how Peavey became the first guitar manufacturer to use a CNC machine to make necks and bodies some years later. 

Somebody has to stop what they are doing and figure the thing out. It also probably became easier to use over time...

[CEB]

In the 80s my gig got gear from Peavey.  My road rig was two Bandit 65s.  One was a backup. I decided to run them both stereo out the outputs of the SPX90.  Much lushness from a small package.  This was before the reemergence of the Tele in Nashville.  Country was a lot of Super Strats and chorus pedals.... sad days. 

 

Those Bandit 65s were bulletproof.  I put EVM12Ls in them and all that did was make them sound like sterile and harsh and ridiculously heavy.  Too much fidelity for that amp.  The stock Scorpions sounded way better.  Then later I migrated to pedal steel and I have always used Peavey Session and Nashville pedal steel amps until a couple of years ago.  The twin Nashville 400s have gotten too heavy and now I use  2 Boss Katana 100s.  Stage levels are way lower today.   Trying to install EVs in the Bandits reminds me of a conversation with Gene Ford at Peavey we had later when trying to repair a different piece of gear.  Gene said  "The problem is you are using too good a part!"  We needed to use this cheaper op amp chip that was less than $1.   It was designed for wide tolerances that didn't fail.  Peavey in the good old days were designed for reliability over audio greatness.  Our problem with the Bandits was the EVM12Ls we were trying to use were too good a part. 

 

My old 160 watt Mace VTs still rock, however currently retubing the 6 6l6cg beasts would require a second mortgage now.

[KuruPrionz]

4 hours ago, CEB said:

In the 80s my gig got gear from Peavey.  My road rig was two Bandit 65s.  One was a backup. I decided to run them both stereo out the outputs of the SPX90.  Much lushness from a small package.  This was before the reemergence of the Tele in Nashville.  Country was a lot of Super Strats and chorus pedals.... sad days. 

 

Those Bandit 65s were bulletproof.  I put EVM12Ls in them and all that did was make them sound like sterile and harsh and ridiculously heavy.  Too much fidelity for that amp.  The stock Scorpions sounded way better.  Then later I migrated to pedal steel and I have always used Peavey Session and Nashville pedal steel amps until a couple of years ago.  The twin Nashville 400s have gotten too heavy and now I use  2 Boss Katana 100s.  Stage levels are way lower today.   Trying to install EVs in the Bandits reminds me of a conversation with Gene Ford at Peavey we had later when trying to repair a different piece of gear.  Gene said  "The problem is you are using too good a part!"  We needed to use this cheaper op amp chip that was less than $1.   It was designed for wide tolerances that didn't fail.  Peavey in the good old days were designed for reliability over audio greatness.  Our problem with the Bandits was the EVM12Ls we were trying to use were too good a part. 

 

My old 160 watt Mace VTs still rock, however currently retubing the 6 6l6cg beasts would require a second mortgage now.

Long ago and far away, I played hundreds of gigs with a Peavey LA 400. Imagine and Nashville 400 as a 12" combo with a Black Widow speaker and you are really close. 

It had the 210 watt RMS amplifier and I don't think they were kidding. It might have been the loudest 1-12" combo ever made (and the heaviest!!!).

At one point I even put it on top of a 160 watt Peavey Reknown with a 12" Scorpion Plus speaker and ran them in vertical "stereo" (dual mono). 

 

We got a New Years Eve gig in a Top 40 "Country" band I was in and the lead singers wanted us to spread out a bit, just for "looks".

Then they realized that they needed one more mic cable to mic my amp. Jeff asked me "Will the crowd be able to hear you?" and I said "I can drown out everybody else in the band without even trying, don't tempt me!" I didn't, I played at a reasonable volume and I was heard. 370 watts through 2 heavy duty cast frame speakers with large magnets? That's not just loud, a clean tone sparkled at a volume that would cause a 100 watt Marshall head to burst into flames. 😇

[David Emm]

Peavey made a couple of excellent synths that just missed their best window. I saw a pedal steel player using it to trigger their DPM sample module and it was a stunner.

 

I wonder if someone could market a truly serious, creamy keyboard controller with poly AT and turn a profit from more serious players? If you've played Korg's M3 keybed, a Roland D-50 or a Prophet T-8, you're in my small corner of the dream realm.  

 

How about 4 and 5 octave models, possibly with a 76 key for you serious mega-warriors? Roland and Korg could build 'em, but I'm not holding my breath. It'd almost have to be a boutique item like an Osmose, but for a down home tool you'd play for years, I'd drop the bucks. Might have to be a Kickstarter so contributors could make sure it didn't have that alarming throw on recent Rolands, as one example. In/Out formats TBD. What a nice pipe dream! 

[CEB]

I had high hopes for the MuseBox but seemed to collapse when Muse did.

[ElmerJFudd]

This is what happens.  Company comes in making cheap stuff that sucks but is possibly good enough at its price point for less discerning customers - which is honestly a significant % of any market.   How many generations of instruments does it take for them to improve their designs with the money they’re making?  I personally am not interested in a Donner or a Williams but that doesn’t mean they won’t eventually compete with brands that have earned our respect.  

[RABid]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:58 AM, CEB said:

Those Bandit 65s were bulletproof. 

Something I never thought about in this comparison, Peavey was always very dependable. I remember going to a friends house in the 80's to help him with a new Peavey 800 stereo PA amp. When I got there the lights were flashing on the front and no sound going to the speaker. I looked at the back and saw a wiring event I had never seen before. He had a single speaker wire going to the amp. The wire was split as normal, then each lead was split. The red wire was split and attached to both the positive and negative of channel A. The black wire was split and attached to bot the positive and negative of channel B. The amp had been on that way for an hour. I turned it off, wired it correctly, and it WORKED! When you make equipment meant for beginners you need to be able to handle all the mistakes those beginners make. Peavey never failed us in those years. Much more dependable than Behringer. I wonder how Donner will pan out with dependability?

[nursers]

I actually will (reluctantly) defend Behringer. They aren't the company they were 10 years ago - I don't own any of their stuff but I know a bunch of people that do (including their synths), and the reliability issues of old don't tend to be there. Even with the old stuff, my band has a practice rig that includes 15 year old Behringer stuff and it's as solid as a rock...

[KuruPrionz]

3 hours ago, Dr Nursers said:

I actually will (reluctantly) defend Behringer. They aren't the company they were 10 years ago - I don't own any of their stuff but I know a bunch of people that do (including their synths), and the reliability issues of old don't tend to be there. Even with the old stuff, my band has a practice rig that includes 15 year old Behringer stuff and it's as solid as a rock...

Making "good enough" gear that is less expensive than competitors will never go out of style. 

Some of us will buy in at an inopportune moment and the experience that follows will cause us to abandon a brand for eternity. 

That happened to me more than once but one of the brands was Behringer. Other brands I either miss their failures or they didn't have them in the first place. 

So it goes... 

[RABid]

10 years ago I would not consider anything Behringer. Now I have 5 of the synths. Love my 2600.

 

Edit: Oops. I forgot to included the 25 or so Behringer Eurorack modules and the case.