America's last two piano manufacturers

[David Emm]

Talk about having it all go offshore... let's all stand in line for one of the 140 Faziolis they build per year.

 

https://thehustle.co/how-one-of-americas-last-piano-manufacturers-stays-alive/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[conundrum]

Could be wrong, but I don't think too many here can afford to stand in line for one.

[ElmerJFudd]

 

[Mark Schmieder]

Wow. At this late hour, I can only skim it quickly, but I got the gist of it, and it seems sales are bouncing back due to people being home more since COVID.

 

As someone whose family has been dedicated to Mason & Hamlin for several generations, it is fascinating to see their story in a larger context.

[Nathanael_I]

The article missed at least one: Walter pianos are also made here. And may well sell more than Mason & Hamlin.  

[Michael W]

They missed these guys - Charles Walter.

 

https://www.walterpiano.com/

 

[re Pete]

https://masonhamlin.com/articles/henry-mason/

[ProfD]

Shadd Pianos are built right here in the USA:

 

https://www.shaddpianos.com/sales.html

 

Warren Shadd is the only AfroAmerican piano maker in the world. 😎

[Outkaster]

Interesting article.  With Kids not playing instruments and older folks going into assisted living facilities it's not hard to understand why the industry is the way it is now. Kids don't care about instruments or live music very much anymore.

[Doerfler]

9 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Shadd Pianos are built right here in the USA:

 

Shadd Grand piano is what was on stage for Jazzfest DC last month.

David Ryshpan played it. He told me it played like a Steinway B. 

[ProfD]

29 minutes ago, Doerfler said:

Shadd Grand piano is what was on stage for Jazzfest DC last month.

David Ryshpan played it. He told me it played like a Steinway B. 

Awesome.  Really wish I could have made it down there to meet David R in person but had another commitment. 😎

[David R]

Missed you, @ProfD.
 

Glad someone beat me to mentioning Warren Shadd’s phenomenal work. If we expand the scope a bit to North America, Oliver Esmonde-White is doing some exceptional things here in Montreal as well.

[RABid]

If kids are not playing piano, it is because we have raised a generation of parents who don't see the benefits of learning music. Maybe the bigger reason, if kids are home practicing the parent is home listening. If the kid is practicing soccer, the parents is either enjoying "me" time, or socializing with other soccer parents.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, RABid said:

If kids are not playing piano, it is because we have raised a generation of parents who don't see the benefits of learning music.

IMO, it's not quite that simple.  As outlined in the article, societal changes and technological developments and alternative forms of entertainment affected the demand for pianos.  

 

In addition to guitars and drums in yesteryear, electromechanical KBs, synthesizers, drum machines and now software provide budding musicians with cheaper alternatives to buying a piano.

 

Young folks so inclined are still learning how to play instruments and produce music.  They have had more choices besides piano for the better part of 50 years now. 😎

[RABid]

From what I have seen, young people are not learning to play anything and pianos have saturated the market. Other industries can look at piano manufacturers and think "It is your own fault. Should have designed pianos so that the keys would wear out after a few years." Now people cannot give them away. Every week someone is listing a free piano in the paper. But it is not just pianos. Top schools with successful, large marching bands are sustaining but schools with mediocre marching bands are in decline. You've heard the line "She's a cheerleader, I'm in the band." That "uncool" factor used to be balanced by the parents' push for their children to learn an instrument. Now when the kids say "I don't want to" the parents are ready to jump to the next thing. Schools once had three sports, basketball, football and baseball. Add hockey if you are in the north. Now it is gymnastics, soccer, tennis, golf, archery, bowling, skeet shooting, and the schools in my area even have fishing teams. Even the nerds can find something other than band. My extremely rural school has academic competitions and a robotic team. And the last time I went to a basketball game, there were 12 kids in the band. My senior year we suffered a major hit from graduation but still had 50 kids in the band. Now it is 12 and most of them cannot play. The drama club is bigger and more popular.

[David Emm]

3 hours ago, RABid said:

Even the nerds can find something other than band. My extremely rural school has academic competitions and a robotic team. And the last time I went to a basketball game, there were 12 kids in the band. My senior year we suffered a major hit from graduation but still had 50 kids in the band. Now it is 12 and most of them cannot play. The drama club is bigger and more popular.

 

Teaching music isn't just about the notes, its the suggesting the abstract JOY of it when you get it right. That's a much more next-level task to place on any parent or teacher, especially as things have been evolving and de-volving. With so many distractions, its probably hard for many kids to spend enuf time with just their Volcas to create more than the usual blorps and screeks. Never mind a heftier lift like a Roland JD-Xi, a laptop and Garageband. 

 

If I taught a music class, I'd have 'em up and running with major listening days. Prog would be a natural, but so would King Crimson (a mutant jazz band, not prog), Carl Orff, "West Side Story", Raymond Scott's six-member 'Quintette' as well as "Soothing Sounds for Baby" and astounding singers such as Shawn Phillips and Pentangle's Maggie Riley. After a time, the more keen candidates would appear. The lack of arts in public schools is as awful and destructive as not teaching civics. Damn cell phones! As Bill Maher said, "You can't learn history from Instagram."

 

I recall a great moment from the superior comic strip "Cul DeSac." The nebbish-y brother is 'practicing' the clarinet, expressed with HREENK! RONK! His precocious sister of about four and a half says "What's that?" He says "Its a clarinet. Its the most beautiful instrument in the world." She responds "I'll say! It sounds like a clogged nostril you can play a tune on!" I think that describes a lot of the problem when a kid takes up any instrument. 🙄

[RABid]

I think one problem for potential music students is the opportunity to explore instruments and find the one that is right for them. I started on piano and after a year my mother made me quit lessons. She said I did not practice enough. In reality the problem was two fold. One - I was not being challenged. The teacher would introduce me to a new song and we would go through it a few times. By the end of the lesson I could play the song and felt no need to practice. Two - Our piano sat between the only TV in the house and the only phone in the house. I had no privacy at the piano. I was uncomfortable and did not understand my stage fright. Years later I decided to join high school band as a freshman and when asked to choose an instrument I chose drums without knowing why. I could sit on my bed and practice by beating on pillows and no one could hear me. I also started back on piano at that time and being able to read music really accelerated my drumming. What I did not know at the time is I have natural rhythm and a keen sense of timing. I practiced piano 2 hours a week because I had to. I practiced drums 12+ hours a week because I wanted to. I had found my instrument. My drum teacher was my record player and I played along with everything I could find. By the end of my freshman year I had talked my parents into a cheap Sears drum set, and was easily the best drummer in high school band. I think back on that and wonder what life would be like if I had not chosen drums. It wasn't until I got a MiniMoog that a truly fell in love with keys.

[zephonic]

Isn't Ravenscroft also built here? Like in AZ?

 

[David R]

I think another element of all this is the rise of noise complaints. This is perhaps a rant for a separate thread: I am not really sure how it happened, but it seems like around the turn of the millennium, “music” came to be considered “noise,” even (and especially) in urban areas. Practicing acoustic instruments in one’s own home, no matter how good or how quiet, became a point of dispute for neighbours. So now we’ve all been chasing low-volume, headphone friendly options so we can all live in our individual bubbles. 

[re Pete]

30 minutes ago, David R said:

I think another element of all this is the rise of noise complaints. This is perhaps a rant for a separate thread: I am not really sure how it happened, but it seems like around the turn of the millennium, “music” came to be considered “noise,” even (and especially) in urban areas. Practicing acoustic instruments in one’s own home, no matter how good or how quiet, became a point of dispute for neighbours. So now we’ve all been chasing low-volume, headphone friendly options so we can all live in our individual bubbles. 

Yep. Rowhome or apt living with an acoustic can be an adventure. 

The other thing is tuning it. 

[Stokely]

22 hours ago, Outkaster said:

Interesting article.  With Kids not playing instruments and older folks going into assisted living facilities it's not hard to understand why the industry is the way it is now. Kids don't care about instruments or live music very much anymore.

After recently supporting my oldest kid through his "band life" at high school--I have a differing opinion.  Granted, we are talking marching and symphonic band though they did have a keyboard player or two.  Those kids were freaking amazing, their marching show was incredibly complex (practicing hours a day after school in rain or blazing heat).   Actually my realization that music wasn't dead started when he hit middle school, those band directors get those tweens cranking very quickly on very difficult instruments...and those bands are big, in this area at least.  I was absolutely gobsmacked the first time 70+ middle schoolers were able to play  their first piece after only a few weeks of practice, never having picked up any of those instruments before.

As far as piano...well, I think the fact that people move a lot has a ton to do with it.  So many people rent and jobs aren't as stable as they used to be back in the day.  I'm an oddball having worked in one place for 19 years, most people I know have changed jobs a few times in that period (some more than a few).   Though flip side, the move to remote work (YAY!) might mean more people can stay put.    I have no intention to ever step foot in an office again (other than maybe to actually meet people in person!) and that means I'd be more likely to buy a piano, knowing I wouldn't have to sell or move it.

[Outkaster]

That's cool I think it is rare for kids to be into music the way they are with their phones.  My horn players are music directors and said their attendance has waned in recent years. I don't mind going into an office. I have a new job at a university and it's a face to face business.  Working remote might help.  I just firmly believe not many kids are into music.  It was bad in the 80s and even worse now.

[Stokely]

It may depend on the area.  I just know I was shocked at how many kids were in the band(s) (two different middle schools and two different high schools between my two kids) and how good those kids got, rapidly.  These bands were a lot bigger than the one from my day, and the marching routines were way more complex.   Both of those high schools were "competitive" marching bands so that might have made a difference, and the middle schools are pretty tied in to the high school bands (each year they'd have a concert where the "feeder" middle school band would join them).

That job (band director) is one of the hardest I've ever seen, yet I imagine it can be extremely rewarding.   Those people do FAR more work, for probably a fair bit less, than I do typing code into my laptop all day.

It definitely seems that in general kids don't listen to music as much...unless it's in a show like Stranger things, or on some youtube vid.   One of my son's friends (18 year old) asked me if I'd ever heard Running up that hill by Kate Bush...I'm like, yep, let me see if I can find where I put my cd purchased in 1990 or so!

[ProfD]

There are a few of us around here who can afford to buy a piano and house it but we buy electronic KBs instead. 

 

Schools, churches, theaters, etc., have been the biggest piano customers for several decades now.

 

Every passing generation has similar complaints about the next generation and their lack of interest in whatever is/was important to them.  Yet, the world continues to turn. 

 

There's no shortage of talented pianists and musicians under 40 years old tearing it up as we type.  Exhibit A...see Snarky Puppy thread.😎

[Outkaster]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

There are a few of us around here who can afford to buy a piano and house it but we buy electronic KBs instead. 

 

Schools, churches, theaters, etc., have been the biggest piano customers for several decades now.

 

Every passing generation has similar complaints about the next generation and their lack of interest in whatever is/was important to them.  Yet, the world continues to turn. 

 

There's no shortage of talented pianists and musicians under 40 years old tearing it up as we type.  Exhibit A...see Snarky Puppy thread.😎

I don't know I don't see that many talented people, I can even tell by how they hold the instrument.  In any case my friends are tuners and are flooded with requests to remove old pianos.  One company puts them in a warehouse and tries to sell them off. If not they are dismantled and thrown out which is unfortunate.  A lot of the models are good pianos also.  It's very sad.

[Joe Muscara]

16 hours ago, zephonic said:

Isn't Ravenscroft also built here? Like in AZ?

 

I think I saw that some of the work is done in Germany.

 

For the 220 it says, "An exquisite German handcrafted case completes the peerless work of art in every respect,' and the 275 says, "Alluring, flowing lines outline the German handcrafted case, which completes the peerless work of art in every respect." I'm guessing that it's one of those things like the cars where it says Made in U. S. A. with parts sourced from… or something like that.

 

When I saw the article referenced in the OP, I thought about Ravenscroft and Walter among others. (I'd have to go through The Piano Book and the addendums I have to see who else.) It felt like someone said Fender and Gibson were the only guitar manufacturers left because they ignored all the boutique makers.

 

At the same time, the car industry went through something similar. How many manufacturers were there 100 years ago? Now there are a handful. And if you're old enough to remember the initial personal computer revolution, how many companies made those computers? 

 

I'm not saying I don't want more pianos in homes everywhere. I do. But I ain't gonna be the one that makes that happen. I doubt that piano-based hit is coming from my fingers that makes every Gen Z or Alpha kid want a real piano.  

[MathOfInsects]

When a piano was the only way to have a piano, more people had pianos.

Now there are other ways to have pianos. They never need tuning, they don't take up much space, you don't have to hire a separate moving company just to deal with it, and they can be put away if need be and taken out after the baby has gone to sleep or otherwise stopped throwing pudding into everything.

We might as well lament the demise of the iceman or crank-engine cars.

[stoken6]

7 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

We might as well lament the demise of the iceman or crank-engine cars.

Or (given the degree of craftsmanship required for both) wind-up mechanical watches.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[RandyFF]

And then there’s the difficulty/time-required to learn piano.  I have a nephew that played piano as a kid and was pretty good on some advanced classical pieces, but he didn’t keep it up.  Now, with 2 kids and wife to support he tried coming back to it, but he discovered it would be a lot of work for him to get back up to speed even for casual playing.

 

Whereas the guitar is something he never really played, but has been able to pick up easily- you learn 20 chords and suddenly you can play for singalongs with simple strumming. Guitar and sax, with its flute-like fingering, are the two instruments I recommend for people that don’t want the years long process required with piano.  

 

I liked what David was saying about finding the right instrument for yourself!  Piano has always been the right instrument for me-

[RandyFF]

Was listening to Stu Harrison over at Merriam Music, he has a very useful video:

TIPS FOR BUYING A PIANO: 10 COMMON MISTAKES

https://youtu.be/fm_IAYV6Xgk.  

 

Among other things he warns about:

- Be prepared for how loud an AP is and buy accordingly!  You might need a hybrid with a HP jack!

- Allow more room for moving it than the strict measurements would indicate!

- Pianos wear out, buying used you may be getting what you paid for

- It takes time, at least several weeks, for the piano to acclimatize to the humidity and temperature, all the more so when it’s a big adjustment

- Etc.