Retirement planning for musicians, in a musical instrument context.

[RABid]

I started piano before the age of 10. Joined high school band my freshman year as a drummer and picked it up really fast. My senior year I picked up trumpet, baritone and alto sax. My freshman year of college the ONE thing I learned is how to play guitar. Now, fast forward 40 years.....

 

Before I retired I bought a decent banjo, nice Yamaha flute, and a didgeridoo. Three instruments that I always wanted to learn. For me learning a new instrument has always been like going on vacation and exploring a new place. Retiring was going to give me the chance. ... ... ...

 

It has been 4 years since I retired and I have never played any of those three instruments. Now I realize that I have a declining desire to learn new instruments. A declining desire to play as much as I used to. The muscle memory needed to learn a new instrument is no where near the level of what I had in my late teens. So, it is time to decide which instruments are most important to me, and which to put in the closet or donate. I always knew that most professional singers suffered a big drop in abilities when they got older. For every Gladys Knight that still sounds great there are 100 other singers that have lost it with age. While I see quite a few good jazz musicians that still sound great, and a lot of good aging classical pianists, how many have dropped out, frustrated that their fingers don't do what they used to. How many have narrowed their playbook, choosing a few songs to keep in top forum while sacrificing the rest of their catalog? How many multi-instrumentalists have cut back to just a couple of instruments in their later years? I watched an interview with members of Rush as they talked about how physically draining it was for Neil Pert to keep playing at the level he was accustom to, and that age hits a drummer harder than any other musician. 

 

Well, I've decided to plan out my "degression" as a musician. If I ever go into a nursing home and can only take one instrument, it is going to be something equivalent to a Fantom 7. Between now and then, instead of trying to learn every instrument I can find I am going to narrow my focus to those instruments that are most important to me.

 

So, is anyone else addressing the issues of becoming an aging musician? How are you handling things? What is your major focus? Any tips on remaining productive? Does anyone know if there is a Viagra for musicians in the works?

[Anderton]

44 minutes ago, RABid said:

So, is anyone else addressing the issues of becoming an aging musician? How are you handling things? What is your major focus? Any tips on remaining productive? Does anyone know if there is a Viagra for musicians in the works?

 

Frankly, I think the music I'm making now is better than anything I've done before. Although I do have some hand issues that prevent me from playing as long as I used to, thankfully, they're not too horrible. BUT when playing guitar, what that made me do is become more of a composer. For example, I'll play a lead, and go into edit mode to create something that sounds like a guitar, but would be difficult to play. I don't mean stacking a billion notes per second, but more like finding out that I can process leads with Melodyne, and add slide effects that don't sound fake - but don't sound like anything you've heard before, either.  I also do edits like extend decay tails, electronic transpositions, and the like. So any limitations I have, have turned into venturing into new territories.

 

My vocals are better too, but not because I've become a "better" singer. It's because no matter what level of quality I capture in a vocal, I know enough editing tricks to make it sound good. So takes I really liked that I might have had to discard in the past, I can keep and bring them to life. Many of my vocals these days are first take, when they have that fresh, excited sound. Normally, I would have had to move on due to the occasional technical error. But now, I can fix those errors, and keep the vibe.

 

Studio One's harmonic editor is causing me to create keyboard parts that are a hybrid of what I can play coupled with a machine's take on what's the "correct" thing to play. We get along well.

 

If it gets to the point where I can't do what I do any more, that simply means I've run out of imagination. Only then is it time to fade to black 

[Notes_Norton]

Retirement? Not me. Retirement is the enemy of longevity. If Willie Nelson can still gig, so can I.

 

A few years ago I picked up my 8th instrument, lead guitar, and although I'll never be a Jeff Beck, the things I can do, I can do well. Lead and background parts for most rock/pop/country songs. And I keep learning more.

Sax/windsyth is (are?) my primary instrument, and I'm playing them better than ever. There isn't enough years in a lifetime to learn all there is to know about playing better, and years of watching the audience as I play teaches me how to play the audience better.

 

My singing is also better than ever. I'm not a natural singer, but I learn how and it was harder than my other 7 instruments (sax, windsynth, flute, bass, guitar, drums, keyboard synth).

 

I make my own backing tracks for my duo, and every time I learn a new song, I also learn something about arranging, mixing, and more.

 

I play live, and use my experience to give the audience, what they want, when they need it, without them knowing that I am manipulating them to have the best time at my gig. I'm constantly getting better at that.

 

Playing music is the most fun I can have with my clothes on. My first pro gig was when I was in Jr. High School, and for the majority of my life it has been my sole or major income source. As long as someone will hire me, and as long as an audience will listen, I'll be gigging. No retirement for me. Making music is my Ikigai.

 

Notes ♫

[KuruPrionz]

I continue to enjoy having a small home studio and I'm grateful I learned how to use a DAW and to play a little on a variety of instruments. 

 

My current creative time is spent experimenting with creating composition from improvised sources. Sometimes I find a lick, sometimes I just use 5 seconds and pop it in somewhere. I've also been experimenting with layering drum parts from different plugins, that's fun and interesting. You can have spectacular failures, this provides amusement and improvements. 

 

Balancing Artist / Engineer by yourself is a challenge. I started working on the sound - Engineering and that has freed my Artist which is my primary creative outlet. Music is so infinitely amazing, as long as my brain and fingers work I can make incredible music if it comes to that. 

 

Guitar will remain my favorite but Bass is maybe the most fun right now. It's also one you could probably gig into your 80's if you buy something light - a Kala or a Beatle Bass.

 

[BMD]

As I head inexorably towards my dotage, I'm devolving (are we not men?). In the past it was all about playing guitar, bass, keys, singing etc. But I'm currently toying with the idea of doing only instrumentals using nothing but the bundled midi instruments in PreSonus Studio One v2 on an old Sony Vaio laptop running Windows 7

 

Some years ago I was fortunate enough to be given a product key for the Pro version of Studio One v2 (I've since lost it). It was at a Line 6 event in London. A certain Mr A. was there. It's a great bit of kit, so I might as well use it. As regards vocals, I was always concerned that my neighbours could hear my warbling, so I never really gave them (the vocals, that is) my all. With instrumentals that will no longer be an issue. And since it will be all in the box, that makes life simpler (and quieter)

 

I'm on holiday in the Cotswolds at the moment, but when I get back I'll crack on with the new project. I've ordered a new silent mouse and I've come up with an idea for the first song. Excuse me while I nip to the fridge for another bottle of Desperados (alc 5.9%)...

[RABid]

My synth leads are better now than they were when I was a full time musician. Much more mature and full of feeling. My piano playing, well, the Bach 3 Parts I was playing my senior year of high school would now kick my butt. My drumming is still okay. I can hold a nice groove but I would not play a solo in front of anyone. I am one with my conga's, yet frustrated with my timbales. Seems my talent levels are now all over the place. I do worry about the aching in my wrists and ankles. Getting tested for Sjogren's syndrome in a few weeks. It is genetic, my older sister has it, and I have all the symptoms. It frequently occurs along with rheumatoid arthritis which could do in my drumming. But, I have a collection of drum machines and groovebox/workstations that I really enjoy. I also have a nice, large eurorack system and modern eurorack sequencers are a blast. 20 years from now, if all I can do is compose by dialing in notes and sequencing mods like lfo, filter and more ... I'll be jamming. 

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, RABid said:

My synth leads are better now than they were when I was a full time musician. Much more mature and full of feeling. My piano playing, well, the Bach 3 Parts I was playing my senior year of high school would now kick my butt. My drumming is still okay. I can hold a nice groove but I would not play a solo in front of anyone. I am one with my conga's, yet frustrated with my timbales. Seems my talent levels are now all over the place. I do worry about the aching in my wrists and ankles. Getting tested for Sjogren's syndrome in a few weeks. It is genetic, my older sister has it, and I have all the symptoms. It frequently occurs along with rheumatoid arthritis which could do in my drumming. But, I have a collection of drum machines and groovebox/workstations that I really enjoy. I also have a nice, large eurorack system and modern eurorack sequencers are a blast. 20 years from now, if all I can do is compose by dialing in notes and sequencing mods like lfo, filter and more ... I'll be jamming. 

I am a much better lead guitarist than I was even a couple of years ago. More melodic, less "zipping around really fast". I can still zip around really fast and there is a place for that but melody is more compelling. People will remember the melody to a song but not a zippy lead solo. 

Somebody who blended both beautifully is Elliot East, the first Cars album still stands tall in my book and the guitar work is fantastic, melodic and quick with lovely tones. 

[BMD]

26 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

I am a much better lead guitarist than I was even a couple of years ago. More melodic, less "zipping around really fast". I can still zip around really fast and there is a place for that but melody is more compelling. People will remember the melody to a song but not a zippy lead solo. 

Somebody who blended both beautifully is Elliot East, the first Cars album still stands tall in my book and the guitar work is fantastic, melodic and quick with lovely tones. 

 

Completely agree with you there

[Anderton]

I'd put Jeff Beck in the same category. He could show off if he wanted, but instead, he wrings emotion out of every note. 

[KuruPrionz]

57 minutes ago, Anderton said:

I'd put Jeff Beck in the same category. He could show off if he wanted, but instead, he wrings emotion out of every note. 

Jef Beck IS his own category. Watching his right hand pick notes, work the whammy bar and adjust the switch and knobs on his Strat makes my tiny brain hurt!!!

This is to say nothing of things like the intro to Nadia, where he plays Middle Eastern micro-tones with a slide, flings it off his finger and fingers the rest of the song and it all sounds the same. I honestly cannot think of a more accomplished overall guitarist but what really matters is his masterful expression of music. 

[RABid]

3 hours ago, Anderton said:

I'd put Jeff Beck in the same category. He could show off if he wanted, but instead, he wrings emotion out of every note. 

My favorite guitarist. He had a BIG effect on my lead synth playing.

[Greg Mein]

19 hours ago, RABid said:

So, is anyone else addressing the issues of becoming an aging musician? How are you handling things? What is your major focus? Any tips on remaining productive? 

 

I don't much entertain the idea of learning any new instruments although I have a fiddle and banjo I might still tinker with. I'm happy with my skills on guitar, keys, bass and vocals while home recording is only getting better as computers and software continue to become more powerful. It's the inverse of an aging problem and is more fun than ever although I probably spend too much time learning too many programs.

 

The aging problem definitely comes in for live gigging however. Slogging all the gear for our duo is annoying and the system I put together requires a lot of setup/teardown time. I'm looking at moving to in-ear monitors for us. Although I've had a love/hate relationship with in-ears in the past I believe I can eliminate both our instrument amps and the little monitor we use (which also provides our click) if I switch.

 

I don't want to hijack the thread but today I discovered the U4 In-Ear Monitor Wireless System. My research is leading me to believe this could be a great solution for us and the price can't be beat. Anyone have experience with this brand or system?

[timwat]

20 hours ago, RABid said:

So, is anyone else addressing the issues of becoming an aging musician? How are you handling things? What is your major focus? Any tips on remaining productive? Does anyone know if there is a Viagra for musicians in the works?

 

I am trying. 

 

As you may remember I wrote that thread a bit ago that I was sick and tired of playing covers and dance band music. I've since become more resolved to not waste precious time playing music I don't enjoy, as I don't play music for the money anymore and I have far less time to waste in my life, in general.

 

I still play jazz. I think this will be the harsh mistress that humbles me until the day I cross over. And I will continue to nip at the edges and try to grow.

 

My inner ear now gravitates primarily to the music that make me feel deep things. And I have become ruthlessly impatient with music that does not.

 

I feel there are still musical challenges to face that will require focus, and commitment, and will (things which John Wick knows a great deal about, but that many of use do not LOL).

 

I have been asked by an old friend to provide kybd support to his prog band, which currently has a release at the top of some chart which tracks these things. Of course, these days having a "#1 prog record" may be akin to having the the fastest horse and buggy at an F1 race, but he's a dear friend and I appreciate what his band is doing.

 

But I am restless. Which, I suppose, is a good thing, as from one perspective it means I haven't given up and shelved music as a pursuit, or similar. It is still an element of who I am, not merely a thing I dabble in.

 

As far as a tip to remain productive (which is advice I need to give myself), I was told long ago by a wise man:

 

"Amateurs wait for inspiration. Professionals get to work every day."

 

Time to get to work.

 

 

[Anderton]

5 hours ago, timwat said:

"Amateurs wait for inspiration. Professionals get to work every day."

 

Professionals get to work every day because that's what attracts inspiration

[Notes_Norton]

18 hours ago, Anderton said:

I'd put Jeff Beck in the same category. He could show off if he wanted, but instead, he wrings emotion out of every note.

 

IMO Jeff Beck is the most technically accomplished rock guitarists alive, and one of the most artistic in his expressiveness.

 

8 hours ago, Anderton said:

Professionals get to work every day because that's what attracts inspiration

 

I don't think about inspiration. I just set up my gear, and play. I use the audience in front of my today to decide what songs to play, then I turn off the language part of my brain, and play. For me, inspiration happens when I'm not thinking. When the words in my head are silent, I just let it happen. Some days are normal (for me), and some days I even surprise myself (I love when that happens).

 

Notes ♫

[KuruPrionz]

4 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

"then I turn off the language part of my brain, and play." For me, inspiration happens when I'm not thinking. When the words in my head are silent, I just let it happen.

This is the only way I know how to play, as soon as I start thinking verbally, it cuts off the flow of creativity. No fun, go home... 

[RABid]

I've been doing some research on aging and learning. Seems that the older you get, the harder it is to learn something new. Maybe retirement is not the time to learn a new instrument. I'm not saying that it is impossible. The fact is the younger you are the easier it is to learn something new. Muscle memory gets hit pretty hard in later years and much of learning a new instrument is muscle memory. On the other hand, the ability to apply previously acquired knowledge to new areas is as strong as ever so even at an advanced age, your knowledge of other instruments still helps you settle in with a new instrument. 

[KuruPrionz]

11 hours ago, RABid said:

I've been doing some research on aging and learning. Seems that the older you get, the harder it is to learn something new. Maybe retirement is not the time to learn a new instrument. I'm not saying that it is impossible. The fact is the younger you are the easier it is to learn something new. Muscle memory gets hit pretty hard in later years and much of learning a new instrument is muscle memory. On the other hand, the ability to apply previously acquired knowledge to new areas is as strong as ever so even at an advanced age, your knowledge of other instruments still helps you settle in with a new instrument. 

Yesterday  I did my first solo gig in a LONG time. Just me and an acoustic guitar for a couple of hours. 

Lots of songs that I (mostly) remember from decades gone by, a few of my own songs and I learned a couple that are new to me. 

Keeping the lyrics and chords straight made my tiny brain hurt and I had my share of boo-boos but just kept on going. 

The response was good, one of my originals had the small but splendid crowd in stitches. 

 

I'm going to keep practicing and looking for more solo gigs. It's a different world than playing in a band. I can conjure up silence, change tempo or key when it feels right, sing soft or loud as befits what I'm presenting and play some things that just won't work for a bar band dance situation. Overall, it's a joy. 

 

I chose guitar a LONG time ago and I play bass too but mostly on recordings. I have a friend who is a monster bassist but like all of us, he's a busy guy. 

So I just record my own bass and guitars. Not much of a keyboard player, I'm just going to stay with my strong points and let the music speak. 

 

We can't do everything!

[Notes_Norton]

5 hours ago, RABid said:

I've been doing some research on aging and learning. Seems that the older you get, the harder it is to learn something new. Maybe retirement is not the time to learn a new instrument. I'm not saying that it is impossible. The fact is the younger you are the easier it is to learn something new. Muscle memory gets hit pretty hard in later years and much of learning a new instrument is muscle memory. On the other hand, the ability to apply previously acquired knowledge to new areas is as strong as ever so even at an advanced age, your knowledge of other instruments still helps you settle in with a new instrument. 

I picked up lead guitar in my 60s. I'll never be a Jeff Beck, and what I know so far is limited, but what I know I can play pretty well. Mostly rock and/or country solos where the chords are not too complex.

 

I do have the luxury of playing 16-18 gigs per month, and if you can't practice on stage, where CAN you practice?

 

I've read that learning new things is actually good for the aging brain. A new language, a new instrument, a new skill, or whatever, it's supposed to keep the brain plastic.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[pinkfloydcramer]

Going on 62, more motivated than ever to learn new instruments, it seems to come easier, too- because I know the music know and know what it is I'm trying to play..in high school I learned to back a bluegrass banjo player on guitar, rhythm (boom-chuck) only. in college I applied myself to electric for a short while and learned some stock blues licks. And then nothing, guitar-wise, for the succeeding decades 'til recently, when I picked up a nice acoustic and a decent semi-hollowbody. My goal is to be able to play chordal jazz melodies on demand, something that few guitarists seem to care about. I'm currently trying to smooth out my arrangement of the Christmas Song. It makes my head hurt, but in a good way.

 

I have had a chromatic harmonica for a couple of decades and recently have been practicing on it, also. So far I have not incorporated it into gigs. It is possible to play a chromatic one-handed and use the other to play piano chords or even a walking bassline. Howard Levy was known for doing that with a diatonic harp, using the overblow technique to play sharps and flats. I have scratched the surface of that but it's much easier to work the slide, so far. 

 

I don't think I'm being unrealistic since my focus on both novel instruments is melody playing, not shredding- and a good portion of my income already comes from "name that tune" instrumental melody playing. I see an opportunity to be a niche guitarist/ harmonica player, someone to balance out the abundance of guitar shredders and blues harp players. We'll see..  

[Notes_Norton]

The advantage to learning a new instrument, is you already know music from your previous instrument(s).

I started on drums, which in retrospect was a good beginning, because I learned rhythm and the role of a drummer.

 

While in Jr. High School, I switched to tenor sax. That gave me the melody I wanted. I also learned music theory in school. I recommend at least basic music theory to all musicians, and if you have that under your belt, new instruments will come a lot easier and quicker.

 

I got in a road band, and learned to double on bass, rhythm guitar (only barre chords), and keyboards. In time, I taught myself flute and wind synthesizer. In my 60s, I bought a guitar and learned how to play melodies and how to use expressive elements like string bends and double stops.

 

I'm still learning to read music on the guitar. Reading on the sax and keyboards are much easier. On the other hand, transposing is much easier on the guitar.

 

What's next? Immediately, new songs (I sequence them from scratch, one instrument at a time). We have over 650 songs now, but new ones keeps our act fresh and our audience entertained. When I get much more proficient at the guitar, I might think about another instrument.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[Strays Dave]

I retired at 62. I'm now 69.  During my day job years (say my early 30's thru my early 60's)  I gigged occasionally as a sideman. I'm a traditional "piano player".  During the day job years I dreaded the thought of losing my piano chops and co-ordination, so I struggled to make time most days after work to get in maybe 1 to 1  1/2  hours playing time on weekdays and 2 or 3 hours on weekends.

 

At 62 I was free to spend 3-4 hours most days at the piano.  I had a list of jazz standards and show tunes (things from musicals like Gershwin and Rogers and Hart).  I beefed up that song list, courtesy of YouTube,  with more show tunes and old pop tunes - for an assisted living gig.  Pre-pandemic I was playing maybe 8  one hour gigs per month.  But most of those gigs didn't come back after the pandemic. 

 

Also at 62, I came acquainted  (thru a piano forum) with a university PhD.  academic who studied Schoenberg's  "Theory of Harmony"  textbook in graduate school. For about  one and a half years we had mostly bi-weekly Skype sessions (with another pupil)  on whichever part of the book we were focused on.  The book is very tedious and the teacher knew which sections were pertinent to use and which to leave out.  So for about 1  1/2 years I spent maybe  an hour daily working 4 part harmony exercises -  written on score paper while sitting and plunking at the piano. This gave me more skill at  using voice leading when playing - like some of the mainstream jazz pianists of the mid 1950's to 1960's.   This same academic (Mark Polishook)  also suggested that instead of scales, I try Bach's  2 and 3 part inventions.  I did, and some of them are great. Later I moved up to Bach's Well Tempered Clavier. Picking and choosing which pieces to "play thru" - playing thru very slowly and doing a fair amount of fumbling. 

 

I also created a little song list of rock and blues oriented songs which I play and sing. Beatles, some old rhythm and blues.  I virtually never get to perform  from this song list, but I figure if I keep my skills up,  the opportunity may arise. 

 

About 2 years ago, I took my final bicycle ride - a mindlessly stupid accident. I ended up with a reverse shoulder replacement surgery. My point in relating this is that my post surgery physical therapist  gave me some final exercises.  They involve warming up with an elastic band, then doing a variety of exercises with 10 lb.  dumbells .  Doing 3 sets of them seems to take about 25 minutes and I do them  three times weekly. 

 

I'm playing better than I ever have in my life.  But it's simply putting in the time and work.  I do believe that keeping the thread intact during my non-gigging day job years was important.  I plan to keep up the regimen the rest of my life.  Later on in life, if dementia and physical disability become too horrific, I'm hoping for a pleasant and humane suicide (a whole different topic). 

 

Lastly,  I want to start recording.  I have a pretty decent collection of hand drums,  a couple of Yamaha Reface keyboards, a baritone uke (I play finger style),  an electric guitar, and so on.  My software skills are insufficient.  But I've connected with a young guy (say under 25) who I think is a Full Sail student (I live in Orlando).  He said he'll come to my house for recording lessons.  I'll play him of course.  

 

I often joke that my musical practice regimen pairs nicely with my OCD tendencies.