Pitch bend and mod: wheels or joystick?

[bill5]

I seem to be one of the few who hates the wheels. You? 

[Baldwin Funster]

Joystick. But I like the wheel too. Gimmie both.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Wheels but I love the joystick for pitch bend. Hate it for modulation.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Wheels but I love the joystick for pitch bend. Hate it for modulation.

This. Stick for PB, wheel for mod. A pitchbend stick makes it easy to perform guitar-style "up-only" vibrato. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[nadroj]

I just can’t get expressive with wheels. Probably could with a lot of practice, but I generally enjoy horizontal pitch bending much more.

[mcgoo]

I prefer the ribbon myself. Easier to do string type vibrato. I've never owned a Nord, but that pitch stick they have on the Stage & Lead (& whatever else) is pretty awesome. I'm surprised more companies haven't tried to imitate it.

[UnderGroundGr]

I prefer wheels.

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

Someone needs to make a board with both. 

 

The joystick seems more expressive for live playing and you can modulate and bend at the same time based on how you feel.  

 

But it also can't modulate and hold without the use of another button. 

 

The wheel is the opposite of both of these statements.  

 

Both are really needed.  A joystick, a bend wheel and a modilari wheel.  

 

!!! 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾

[PianoMan51]

With regards to the Mod Wheel…

 

To control vibrato a self-zeroing stick is great. I have an old Studiologic Organ board with a single pitch/mod stick. It’s fun for recreating those Chick Corea early 70s synth licks.

 

But for the past 30 years or so, most keyboards and software instruments use the Mod Wheel in their presets to control lots of other sound qualities, including articulation, Leslie speed, etc. These don’t work with a self-zeroing controller. 
 

You can, and are welcome to modify your presets to use a different physical controller. But when you have a keyboard or software package that has hundreds or thousands of presets, (think Omnisphere), it’s just easier to use a controller keyboard with a Mod Wheel. YMMV!

[lsj]

definitely wheels, I have several times not purchased a synth that had the stick.  

[JimboKeys]

Wheels.  It's easier to control the control of amount of pitch bend with a wheel than with a joystick.  And i like to use Mod Wheel for such things as fading in strings behind a piano patch, which you can't do with a joystick.  But having both would be nice, as there's a few things you can do with a joystick that can't easily be done with wheels, e.g. the quick pitch flip as heard in Duran Duran's Save a Prayer.

 

-- Jimbo

[cphollis]

Either, if they are heavily spring resistant.  I like pushing/pulling against a decently weighted spring, and having it snap back.  The only thing that is more fun (and difficult to master) is using an old iPhone as an XYZ midi controller with software instruments.

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, cphollis said:

Either, if they are heavily spring resistant.  I like pushing/pulling against a decently weighted spring, and having it snap back

Like a guitar string.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Shamanzarek]

Non-sprung Wheel for Mod to be able to leave Mod amount set where desired. Sprung Wheel or Oberheim Lever/Roland Stick for Pitch works for me. Older Rolands had a Stick and Mod Button or combined Mod with the Pitch stick. Never liked this because Mod amount couldn't be controlled and had to be preset with a slider. At least Roland had Mod delay which most other synths makers didn't think of. Korg used a Joystick which could control Pitch and Mod simultaneously but was sprung on both X and Y axis.

[RABid]

The MiniMoog I had in the early 1980's turned me off from wheels because it would not pop back into place consistently and I had to be very conscious of getting it back in tune after bending a note. My favorite by far is levers like on the Chroma and early Oberheims. 

[AnotherScott]

On 9/27/2022 at 8:16 AM, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

Someone needs to make a board with both. 

Roland Fantom, Fantom-0, and JD-XA basically have both, if you extend the meaning of "joystick" a little. Their lever is basically a vertically compressed joystick (though only "up" on the vertical axis), and they still provide the wheels as well.

 

On 9/27/2022 at 8:20 AM, PianoMan51 said:

To control vibrato a self-zeroing stick is great.

Self-zeroing modulation is what aftertouch is for. ;-)

 

On 9/27/2022 at 5:46 AM, nadroj said:

I generally enjoy horizontal pitch bending much more.

On 9/27/2022 at 9:35 AM, cphollis said:

Either, if they are heavily spring resistant.  I like pushing/pulling against a decently weighted spring, and having it snap back. 

On 9/27/2022 at 12:23 PM, stoken6 said:

Like a guitar string.

The Nord pitch stick addresses all that nicely.

 

But to the OP, I dislike joysticks, because (A) I tend to get accidental pitch bending when I just want modulation. and (B) many mod wheel functions work best when you move the mod wheel and let go, leaving it in place (like when you use the wheel to crossfade sounds, bring in a layer, open a filter, etc.). Korg tries to address that by adding a lock button over the joystick so you can move the stock and lock its setting in place even when you release it, but it's more awkward, plus if you later want to undo the operation, the stick is no longer in the correct position to fade the effect down as smoothly you faded it up.

 

So my preferences would be:

 

...for pitch - Nord pitch stick or Yamaha CS-80 style ribbon

...for modulation - wheel for things you want to leave in place, aftertouch for things you don't

 

but never a shared mechanism for both.

 

 

[zukskywalker]

I voted wheels because of the convenience of standardization but for “other” I kinda like the “log” on korg’s prophecy

[marino]

Wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels wheels.

 

Thank you.

[Stokely]

I almost never use pitch bend at all, so I'm basing this on mod.  I must prefer a wheel that doesn't spring back vs a control that does.  I didn't like the stick control on my old Korg that much, and really can't stand the Roland thingie.

[David Emm]

Korg joysticks. I never felt the need to lock a mod wheel in place, so I always preferred smooth bends with just a little modulation. Assigning reverb or delay amount to the Y axis was much more useful. I can handle wheels just fine, but the joystick always felt better, especially with odd effects patches. 

 

While I adapted to my beloved lil' Roland Juno-1, the sideways nature of their sticks has always gone against the natural positioning of my personal hand. No fault hurled about it, just personal ergonomics. Aside from my two Multimoogs, I never got close to a ribbon for the job. If it had appeared a few years sooner, I would have gone for a Hydrasynth. Great sound and a CS-80-ish ribbon behavior that gives me a synth boner.  

 

Kinda moot now, living with XKey's rubber buttons or else pulling out a Samson Carbon for specialty pitch bend moments. Its wheels are small, but well-placed & tight enough for show time. I still want to take a dump in Korg's shoe for not making a joystick with USB jacks on each end so I can plug it in as I please, but I can CRAM my First World privilege and I know it.  

[mate stubb]

Oberheim/Chroma style paddles.

[Konnector]

Can't vote on just one or the other as they both have strengths and weaknesses. I prefer a joystick for bends and vibrato, but a mod wheel is better for certain applications as it will stay put in any position whereas a joystick won't. Both would be nice but that's a rare thing to try and find....or maybe a joystick with a mod wheel or mod ribbon?

[Piktor]

4 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Like a guitar string.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Key-tar confession: The very best controller that I ever got on with was the Roland Axis 1 pitch wheel back in the day. I never program synths to bend less than +/- 4 semitones. I want to be able to bend into a note and then perform vibrato sharp and flat from the target note in the way that one might do it on a violin or guitar with a floating trem. Because of the way the Axis pb wheel was positioned on the “neck”, bending and playing manual vibrato felt natural and accurate to me. I still have the Axis gathering dust in a closet somewhere. After I eventually crushed that pb wheel into an irreparable state, it wasn’t of much interest to me.

 

Fun trick if you have an Axis: Run your synth through a RAT pedal. Bend a note, step on the sustain pedal. Keep your bend finger in place while you take your right hand and shake the far right end of the casing. Makes a great vibrato. For extra drama, lift the keyboard over your head and grimace, or walk to you amp and point the keyboard into the speaker a la Hendrix. If you programmed the patch to crossfade into a fake feedback sound you might even get a few wtf??? stares…. Um, not that I did ANY of that, because that would be immature, right? 😉

[AnotherScott]

16 minutes ago, Piktor said:

Key-tar confession: The very best controller that I ever got on with was the Roland Axis 1 pitch wheel back in the day.

 

Yeah, that was much better than the ribbon they went to on the next model and every model since.

[Tom Williams]

Ribbon or wheel for pitch, wheel for modulation.  Joystick for RC model cars.

[Justin Havu]

I prefer wheels.  I don't really use the mod wheel for vibrato unless I'm going for a specific sound.  I normally use the pitch wheel for vibrato--To me it sounds more "human" and expressive.  But again, it depends on the music, and the sound I'm looking for.

[GovernorSilver]

It's a blessing when you can have a board that has more than one type of control for pitch bend, modulation, etc..  As Scott pointed out, such boards do exist.

 

I look forward to playing with my preordered Osmose, whenever it arrives.  It has a special key assembly allowing for pitch bend, vibrato, etc. with just your finger on the key.

[RABid]

I could never get used to the Nord Pitchstick. It is by far my least favorite. Have never tried the Oddysey pads.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, RABid said:

I could never get used to the Nord Pitchstick. It is by far my least favorite. 

There are a few ways you can use it (sometimes maybe depending on the board?)... You can grab the side of the keyboard and put your thumb in the groove, you can lay your palm below it and push it with your 2nd/3rd finger, or grab it between your thumb and 2nd/3rd finger...

[Tusker]

I find it’s possible to build usable technique with either wheels or joysticks (or xy pads for that matter). Some techniques work better with some devices:

 

-I enjoy joysticks for pitch wiggles and manual vibrato.

- I prefer wheels for pitch bends. And of course I like the unsprung mod wheel but in my use of it, it is not that different than a nearby slider. I do know some who have developed great facility with flicking the mod wheel up and down in tandem with some pitch wheel action - for them a nearby slider would not suffice.

- I love xy pads for timbral variation combined with pitch, especially when they are center sprung.

-I love my touche se, for timbral variation in the forward-backward action. Not as much in the side to side (typically mapped to pitch) action. In side to side mapping it’s like a joystick: good for vibrato and pitch wiggles but good luck hitting a target pitch on a slow pitch bend!! 
 

Mostly my opinions are a product of experience: I know what I like and I like what I know, it’s getting better in your wardrobe…

 

(%^*!)

 

Um where was I? 🤭

 

In terms of the future, I imagine a pad rather like a track pad, where non-linear shapes which mirror the natural movements of your hand can be defined with vectors. Imagine placing your hand slightly curved on a flat surface. Now move your fingers and thumb in the most natural way for the shape and size of your hand. Now imagine being able to draw vectors to mirror the natural ergonomics of your hand. Wouldn’t that be nice? The technology to do that is simple. It’s just a software overlay, rather like a modulation map. It would allow you to use all your finger independence ergonomically. Today we can define our own unique sounds in our synths. Tomorrow perhaps we will define our own unique ways of controlling them?