Some truly semi-weighted keyboards?

[bill5]

I have seen and tried enough to know that "semi-weighted" sometimes........isn't. Sometimes they feel as heavy as weighted ones and sometimes they are as light as synth action. So I'm curious what you have tried that you feel really is in a middle ground?  (61 keys or more)

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Budget? 66 keys is a strange number.  They go 61, 73, 76, 88 typically. 
 

Yamaha Montage 7 or Genos (76k)

 

Roland Jupiter X

 

Korg Kronos 61 or Nautilus 61

[AnotherScott]

41 minutes ago, bill5 said:

I have seen and tried enough to know that "semi-weighted" sometimes........isn't. Sometimes they feel as heavy as weighted ones and sometimes they are as light as synth action. So I'm curious what you have tried that you feel really is in a middle ground?  (66 keys or more)

 

 

"Fully" weighted actions have hammer mechanisms. "Semi" weighted actions don't have hammers, but have some weight attached to the underside of what would otherwise be an unweighted action. If it has a weight and doesn't have a hammer, it's a semi. My sense is that they don't differ much in how "heavy" they feel, I suspect there is little difference in the amount of weight added... but they do feel different in how much they "push back" at your fingers, which is the result of spring tension rather than the actual weight. But maybe some people have some different perspectives here. What are examples of some semis you think felt light vs. ones that felt heavy?

[bill5]

47 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Budget? 66 keys is a strange number.  They go 61, 73, 76, 88 typically. 
 

Yamaha Montage 7 or Genos (76k)

 

Roland Jupiter X

 

Korg Kronos 61 or Nautilus 61

Sorry; low end and leaning more to MIDI controllers vs workstations and such. 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

17 minutes ago, bill5 said:

Sorry; low end and leaning more to MIDI controllers vs workstations and such. 

 

 

It’s very difficult to find a quality semiweight synth action in the low end, hence the variety of experiences you’ve described.   
 

 

That said, here are a few to try.

Nektar Panorama P6

Novation Launchkey 88

Arturia Keylab Essential 88

 
 

 

[Tom Williams]

I'm currently breaking in a Nektar GXP88, nominally semi-weighted, also has aftertouch.  It feels a lot like the PC4-7 that it drives.  It's much lighter weight than my PX-5S, which requires more force than I feel comfortable putting out for long periods.

[AnotherScott]

HammondDave has mentioned he's very happy with his Novation Launchkey 88 MKIII. In a brief look, it seems the $300 Nektar has the advantage in aftertouch and expression pedal, while the $400 Novation has the advantage in other controllers (sliders, knobs, pads). Both weight about 18 lbs. But I don't know how the feels of the actions compare. The Novation is over 2" deeper, which I might normally see as a negative (I like when things are compact), except in this case, I think the extra depth would be useful, e.g. for an iPad... which is probably what I'd want to use for patch selection for either of them.

[bill5]

  

3 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

It’s very difficult to find a quality semiweight synth action in the low end, hence the variety of experiences you’ve described.   
 

That said, here are a few to try.

Nektar Panorama P6

Novation Launchkey 88

Arturia Keylab Essential 88

I have no way to try these, which is why I started the thread. Looking for thoughts on those who have.

 

 

1 hour ago, Tom Williams said:

I'm currently breaking in a Nektar GXP88, nominally semi-weighted, also has aftertouch.  It feels a lot like the PC4-7 that it drives.  It's much lighter weight than my PX-5S, which requires more force than I feel comfortable putting out for long periods.

 

So you would consider this truly semi-weighted?

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, bill5 said:

So you would consider this truly semi-weighted?

Anything with a weight but no hammer mechanism is semi-weighted. There's no "true" or "not true" version. But if you can give an example of one that felt good to you (or one that didn't), that might provide a reference point for what you're looking for (or looking to avoid).

[DeltaJockey]

This is a topic, I too have mouthed off about. I've settled on my own definitions independent of what the product makers define.

To me, there is only two categories for my applications. Weighted and synth (unweighted). If it has a hammer mechanism it's weighted, and more designed with piano simulation in mind.

If it uses spring hinges, regardless of whether there are any weights under the key flats, it is a synth keybed to me. This is my view from my experience in the 70's with the old analog synths. Those keys were made of thick enough plastic that they didn't need weights under them to bulk them up

 

I find my Numa Compact 2X, as a "semi weighted action", is quite acceptable for piano, but in my opinion that's more about the spring tension profile than the lumps of metal under the keys! All just my view on it all. Others may beg to differ

[DeltaJockey]

18 minutes ago, DeltaJockey said:

If it has a hammer mechanism it's weighted, and more designed with piano simulation in mind.

Just correcting myself here. If it has a hammer mechanism, it's more designed for those who prefer a weighted action, for any number of reasons, including being a pianist.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

15 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

 

I find my Numa Compact 2X, as a "semi weighted action", is quite acceptable for piano, but in my opinion that's more about the spring tension profile than the lumps of metal under the keys! All just my view on it all. Others may beg to differ

 

G'day again Cobber. Id like to hear more of your experience with the Numa Cocal 2x.

 

Mainly the feel compared to a privia weighted if you tried one? I have no shops near enough me to try. Closest shop here that sells them only sells them online not in their shop. Crazy i know.

 

Ive bought off them before in person but im not one to buy a keyboard online. I may look for used locally but were difficult to find since after the lockdowns started. Though were commonly found used before the lockdowns. I figure they will appear on used market again very soon though as people return to normality and dont need a lockdown toy.

 

Ive been told by some of our regulars that the action feels like the old Roland A30 controller which I used to love gigging back in the day. I like the Roland "snap" the keys had didnt feel like hitting slugs. But would i still like it now after gigging with privias.

 

Up till i quit the band 1.5 years ago  Ive been gigging with a Privia PX330 and i love the action but its weight in its bag is actually too difficult to lug for my lungs. So im looking lighter.

 

Have you ever played the earlier privias. A wonderful action for gigging for a lightweight weighted.  After a break of 1.5 years from last band i pulled it out to jam with a guy the other day and instantly felt right at home with it. (Even after i play my yamaha G1 acoustic baby grand (my favourite action). But i was out of breath carrying the privia one end of house to other.

 

Im wondering where i once loved the semi weighted action on the Roland A30 which may be akin to the Numa would i have been spoilt by the Privia action gig wise. This would not be for home use as I have a Kawai 9500 for home as I just listed my Yamaha G1 on gumtree to save the house.

 

Any ideas on the numa action if youve played an earlier privia would be appreciated. I love hearing actual owners thoughts. If i could find one in the wild I woudnt have to ask. 

[DeltaJockey]

1 hour ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

 

G'day again Cobber. Id like to hear more of your experience with the Numa Cocal 2x.

 

Mainly the feel compared to a privia weighted if you tried one? I have no shops near enough me to try. Closest shop here that sells them only sells them online not in their shop. Crazy i know.

 

Ive bought off them before in person but im not one to buy a keyboard online. I may look for used locally but were difficult to find since after the lockdowns started. Though were commonly found used before the lockdowns. I figure they will appear on used market again very soon though as people return to normality and dont need a lockdown toy.

 

Ive been told by some of our regulars that the action feels like the old Roland A30 controller which I used to love gigging back in the day. I like the Roland "snap" the keys had didnt feel like hitting slugs. But would i still like it now after gigging with privias.

 

Up till i quit the band 1.5 years ago  Ive been gigging with a Privia PX330 and i love the action but its weight in its bag is actually too difficult to lug for my lungs. So im looking lighter.

 

Have you ever played the earlier privias. A wonderful action for gigging for a lightweight weighted.  After a break of 1.5 years from last band i pulled it out to jam with a guy the other day and instantly felt right at home with it. (Even after i play my yamaha G1 acoustic baby grand (my favourite action). But i was out of breath carrying the privia one end of house to other.

 

Im wondering where i once loved the semi weighted action on the Roland A30 which may be akin to the Numa would i have been spoilt by the Privia action gig wise. This would not be for home use as I have a Kawai 9500 for home as I just listed my Yamaha G1 on gumtree to save the house.

 

Any ideas on the numa action if youve played an earlier privia would be appreciated. I love hearing actual owners thoughts. If i could find one in the wild I woudnt have to ask. 

I understand about the issue of not being able to go try out stuff. Add 350km for me, to your problem, and I end up most of the time having to buy, try, then sell!

My buying though has slowed down considerably, with the economic times ahead.

I've not tried the Roland A30, isn't it weighted? I did have an A49 for awhile, though I liked the snappy springs, it caused me finger fatigue as it was quite stiff, and not enough octaves in any case, what was I thinking!

 

This is where for me the relationship between static and dynamic weighting of a piano just helps give me the correct feedback for my muscle control.

 

I have had several Privia's previously, but it's hard to compare the Numa Compact with them. In the past I've owned PX5S, (which I think is the same keybed as your PX330), I gave my PX560 to my grandkids in Melb. And I then had a PXS3000 for a couple of years. The balance inertia and counter weighting on the Privia PX's was excellent, but the thing that got to me was the rattly, wobbliness of the keys. I tend to like tight hinged keybeds myself. The Numa Compact does take a bit of getting used to for piano, mainly the velocity response, as not having any inertial momentum, you have to apply a bit more continuous force to get an acceptable note response. Setting the velocity to light, doesn't achieve this. Putting the keyboard into context, it is good for what it was designed for. The ability to be a lightweight interface to get the expression out, but it won't replace the tactile response of a weighted action for piano playing. My attraction to keybeds like this are the options to practice on a variety of keys, not just piano, to keep my muscle memory and mental state fresh.

The Numa, doesn't have a particularly hard bottoming, it's pretty much like most spring actions. Keep in mind the keybed is fully optioned, attack and release velocity, with channel aftertouch, so after the false bottoming it tends to have the keystick flex to activate the aftertouch. The key tops are beveled for organ and synth, but they feel nice to play in general in my opinion. My general feeling is, that if you play some piano on a weighted action and go immediately over to the NC2X, you will sense the lack of control and sensitivity playing piano, but like all practice exercise, you will eventually find your technique compensating and be satisfied with the expression you can extract from this lightweight instrument.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom Williams]

21 hours ago, bill5 said:

  

(regarding Nektar keybed)

So you would consider this truly semi-weighted?

Not sure.  The Nektar is sold as semi-weighted, but it and the PC4-7 both feel a bit lighter to the touch than my currently comatose K2600.  That said, I haven't played the latter in years, so it may be a faulty memory.  I would estimate that the Nektar requires about 0.3 times the force needed to play the PX-5S; I would love to have something in the middle, around 0.65 Privias (Hey, I just invented a unit of keyboard weighting!).

[AUSSIEKEYS]

3 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

I understand about the issue of not being able to go try out stuff. Add 350km for me, to your problem

 

Thanks for the fantastic reply neighbour. Really answered everything on my mind about the Numa. 

 

The A30 is semi weighted i believe you are thinking of the famous A80 which i actually have too which was considered the "kargaroos gloves" of weighted keyboards back then.

 

The A30 has been reported on here to have the same action as the Numa i believe. But being made in the 90s i cant remember how well it felt in comparison only that it did feel good. Whether the action has also changed in manufacture is another thing. But i hold promise for it.

 

I think what Ill do is wait as Im not gigging. I have a lot of my large stuff like rare vintage sports car projects, yammy G1 piano, and other interesting things up for part exchange or swapping for synths incase of an impending house downsize smaller synths are easier to move. Theres a lot of vintage car loving muso so my cars may generate trade ins.

 

 

Smaller items replacing bigger items makes sense to physically move i really dont want to pay piano moving fees again.

 

Does part exchange or swapping work we will see. I did get offered a PX5s which i was chasing for my new trailer but that fell thru and i sold the trailer instead. Also a yammy SK45. I did actually get a cheezy little controller for a windsurfing mast i wanted to get rid of.

 

Ill see if any swapping happens for me on gear as there is no hurry on the Numa but i think it may be the go to if i start gigging again especially after your report. A recent jam has kindled the desire but impending move quenches that. I Dont think the Korg Liano with out midi dins is a starter.

 

 

 

[bill5]

  

21 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Anything with a weight but no hammer mechanism is semi-weighted. There's no "true" or "not true" version. But if you can give an example of one that felt good to you (or one that didn't), that might provide a reference point for what you're looking for (or looking to avoid).

Thx but I don't care about the textbook definitions. I already knew that. I'm interested in how keyboards have felt to people since as I stated earlier, I don't have the opportunity to try anything I'm interested in. 

 

But I'll try to get back to the nearest Sam Ash or Guitar Center and see what they have in "semi-weighted" keyboards and see how they feel as a point of reference.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, bill5 said:

 I'm interested in how keyboards have felt to people

 

I have never noticed any semi-weighted to feel substantially lighter or heavier than any other, I may not be sensitive to the amount of difference that exists. But they definitely do spring back with different amounts of force... many of them exerting more return force than a "fully" weighted (hammer action). Another big difference among semi-weighted is whether the amount of force needed to trigger a note remains pretty consistent from the front of the key to the back, or if there is a lot more resistance as you move toward the rear of the key (which then leads you to the question of how far back you can play before it becomes an impediment). There are other differences too.

 

So I'm certainly not suggesting there's no difference among the feels of semi-weighteds... I just am not relating to the desire to know which ones don't feel "as heavy as weighted ones" or "as light as synth action" because the differences among semi-weighteds, to me, are not heavier vs. lighter feeling, the differences lie elsewhere. So that's why some references to boards you've liked or haven't liked (or you think feel more piano-like or more synth-like in their heaviness) might help me understand what you're after. Maybe you're sensing something I'm not, or maybe we're talking about some similar things but from a different perspective. I'll be curious to hear what you report after your store visits!

[Mighty Motif Max]

12 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I have never noticed any semi-weighted to feel substantially lighter or heavier than any other, I may not be sensitive to the amount of difference that exists...

I can think of two cases where I HAVE noticed a substantial difference in weight - the Korg Triton Studio 61/76 action (some Yamaha variant I think) and my old Roland JV-1000. Both meet the textbook definition of "semi-weighted. The Triton Studio action felt heavier than most in terms of when you pressed down it felt like the weights assisted in pulling the keys downwards a bit, resulting in a super smooth, silky feel. Almost like a light escapement effect. By contrast, my JV-1000 has weights under the keys but feels rather light, almost unweighted. Other boards I have are in-between somewhere. But the Triton Studio 76 did seem noticeably heavier; it was great. I'm not sure how much of that has to do with the plastics or construction used for the keys themselves (vs something like my MODX7) versus the weights but I certainly noticed it.