Live sound gurus: a practical question about splitter snakes.

[Brian McConnon]

A question for the “stage” portion of the forum (live sound engineers):

 

Has anyone had any issues using a NON-TRANSORMER-ISOLATED splitter snake to send signals from the stage to both a monitor mixer and FOH mixer?

 

I’m not looking for theory, but real-world experiences in venues or tours that use separate monitor/FOH positions. It seems the internet is full of “potential/theoretical” issues using phantom power with a direct wired split, but I can’t find any actual examples of mixers, mics, or equipment being damaged by doing so. I have found a few cases of ground loop hum, but it seems to be rare and easily fixed with in-line lifts or running both mixers off the same circuit.

 

In my case, the band wants to control their own in-ear monitor mixes and simply provide the venue with a tail for the FOH mix. This is for three reasons: consistency, lower stage volume, and to cut down sound-check time (it’s 7-8 piece band). The cost differential between direct wired and transformer-isolated splitters is substantial and I’m trying to determine if it’s worth the expense.

[Anderton]

I can't comment on using splitters in the field, because I haven't done that. I haven't even played live in a long time...but I wonder if it would be possible to configure a setup with an app like Waves' MyMon so people can control their monitor mixes via wi-fi? Also the PreSonus ecosystem is intended for wireless monitor mixes. A lot depends on the FOH mixer, and whether it could interface with a separate, software-driven monitor mixer, or have an option for wireless monitor mix capabilities. 

 

But again, I can't give a definitive, so you're stuck with my "potential/theoretical" musings...

[Brian McConnon]

Thanks, Craig. The band is using a Soundcraft Ui24R and players control their own monitor mix from their phone. Works great. In small venues with no FOH, a stereo out is fed to the house and mixed from the same Ui24R via an iPad. Pretty much set and forget. I'm trying to make it easy for FOH in larger venues or festival set-ups to patch in and mix the band while the band maintains their familiar monitor setup, hence a splitter snake.

[ajstan]

My 6-piece uses the Seismic Audio SARMSS-16x515 snake in a stage box.  The 5' side feeds an XR-18 to drive our individual IEM mixes that we control with our phones, and the 15' side goes to FOH.  Never had an issue with it for 80-90 gigs, and we've used it on fixed and portable stages, indoors and out, from small to large.  We bought ours in early 2021 for $179, but it looks like it now is $210.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Seismic-Audio-Channel-Splitter-SARMSS-16x515/dp/B01IO4GOKI

[Brian McConnon]

3 hours ago, ajstan said:

My 6-piece uses the Seismic Audio SARMSS-16x515 snake in a stage box.  The 5' side feeds an XR-18 to drive our individual IEM mixes that we control with our phones, and the 15' side goes to FOH.  Never had an issue with it for 80-90 gigs, and we've used it on fixed and portable stages, indoors and out, from small to large.  We bought ours in early 2021 for $179, but it looks like it now is $210.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Seismic-Audio-Channel-Splitter-SARMSS-16x515/dp/B01IO4GOKI

 

Thank you! Really helpful. We've looked at Seismic and were wondering about durability at that price point. How do you find the build quality? I guess if it's in a rack rather than on the floor it's out of harms way. I've read some accounts of loose-fitting XLR connections - have you experienced that? Most importantly, have you lost any channels over the 80-90 gigs?

[ajstan]

1 hour ago, Brian McConnon said:

 

Thank you! Really helpful. We've looked at Seismic and were wondering about durability at that price point. How do you find the build quality? I guess if it's in a rack rather than on the floor it's out of harms way. I've read some accounts of loose-fitting XLR connections - have you experienced that? Most importantly, have you lost any channels over the 80-90 gigs?

Glad to be of help!  We have it in a rolling rack case along with the XR-18 and the wireless IEM transmitters and we treat it with care.  We need all 16 channels, so we can't afford to lose one!  (Well, we could, but then I'd have to run mono.)  All good so far.

 

It's been game-changing for us.  We are all on IEMs (all wireless but me) and the guitar and bass are ampless, so our stage is super comfortable volume-wise.  Whether it's our regular sound company or house-provided, sound check is usually just working with FOH on general levels and EQ-ing drums and vocals.  We play a song and a half to make slight adjustments in levels for our IEMs and we are good to go.

[Brian McConnon]

34 minutes ago, ajstan said:

Glad to be of help!  We have it in a rolling rack case along with the XR-18 and the wireless IEM transmitters and we treat it with care.  We need all 16 channels, so we can't afford to lose one!  (Well, we could, but then I'd have to run mono.)  All good so far.

 

It's been game-changing for us.  We are all on IEMs (all wireless but me) and the guitar and bass are ampless, so our stage is super comfortable volume-wise.  Whether it's our regular sound company or house-provided, sound check is usually just working with FOH on general levels and EQ-ing drums and vocals.  We play a song and a half to make slight adjustments in levels for our IEMs and we are good to go.

 

That's exactly what we're hoping to get to. With drums, 4 horns, guitar, bass and keys the stage volume is high naturally so we want to eliminate wedges to cut it down, not to mention sound-checking that many players takes forever! If we can get everyone on IEMs and roll in 90% there, great!

 

Another question: have you run into any FOH guys that were reluctant or outright refused this method? I've heard some don't want to unpatch/patch their stage snake on multi-band bills.

[ajstan]

2 hours ago, Brian McConnon said:

Another question: have you run into any FOH guys that were reluctant or outright refused this method? I've heard some don't want to unpatch/patch their stage snake on multi-band bills.

I'm happy to say that we haven't.  Of course, we haven't done a lot of the multi-band bills, except for this one annual event we play where we are kind of a cross between performers and guests.  It just so happens that the event is this coming weekend.   The stage box wasn't an issue last year, but I would guess the FOH folks would rather run an extra set of cables for us, then have to deal with dialing in monitor mixes for 6 people.  Plus, there is a DJ in between bands, so there's not a huge rush.  If it's different this year, I'll let you know.

 

For gigs where it's just us, the FOH guys always seem super happy because we have everything labelled and color coded with a giant sticker inside one of the lids with the channel assignments in large fonts.  We also send a stage plot in advance, so they have a general idea of where they need to run power and cabling and get more done before we show up.