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Apple Logic Pro, anybody using it?


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I'd love to hear what you think of it. 

I've been using Waveform Pro (formerly Mackie Tracktion) for a long time. I'm used to it and it worked well until OS 11 and 12 came to pass. 

Currently working with Waveform 10 on Catalina with no problems. I have Waveform 12 on Monterey and it's not a happy camper there, wasn't on Big Sur either. 

 

So I downloaded a 90 day trial of Logic Pro to see if I can get it up and running. I haven't spent much time with it yet, planning a deep dive soon. I've still got 80 days. Today I watched a video on using Drummer, it looks like a great way to create solid drum tracks.

https://whylogicprorules.com/maximizing-drummer/

 

Anything anybody has to say about Logic Pro is interesting to me and hopefully to others, both users and those who may consider switching. Thanks!

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It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Been using it for 25 years. 

 

It's probably the best value for money you can get, and it keeps getting better. They bought Camel Audio and added Alchemy and Camel Crusher (as Phat Fx) for free. Drummer was a free update. Etc. 

A couple of quirks:

Playback apparently isn't always phase-identical. It's never really bothered me, because my setup involves a bunch of old analog delays, phasers, flangers etc., so there's always stuff going on, but I have colleagues who get a little irritated over subtle differences in reverb phase occasionally. As the German saying goes, this is "hearing fleas cough". 

(There's also a low-latency mode; I'm referring to normal operation.)

 

You cannot export to older versions. If you're on 10.7.4, you can't open a project on a machine with 10.6.3. I solve this by keeping multiple versions of Logic on my production computer, but it's annoying (sometimes I open a project in the newer version inadvertently and have to re-do the work after having restored from a backup…). Contrast with Pro-Tools that lets you export to formats compatible with the 1990s. 

 

The Marquee tool is one of the best things about Logic, but it's a little wonky compared to Pro-Tools. 

 

Flex Pitch is really neat, but it can be a little buggy sometimes. 

 

 

I love the fact that I can save channel strips out of Logic and use them directly in GarageBand for live performances. 

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"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

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12 hours ago, analogika said:

Been using it for 25 years. 

 

It's probably the best value for money you can get, and it keeps getting better. They bought Camel Audio and added Alchemy and Camel Crusher (as Phat Fx) for free. Drummer was a free update. Etc. 

A couple of quirks:

Playback apparently isn't always phase-identical. It's never really bothered me, because my setup involves a bunch of old analog delays, phasers, flangers etc., so there's always stuff going on, but I have colleagues who get a little irritated over subtle differences in reverb phase occasionally. As the German saying goes, this is "hearing fleas cough". 

(There's also a low-latency mode; I'm referring to normal operation.)

 

You cannot export to older versions. If you're on 10.7.4, you can't open a project on a machine with 10.6.3. I solve this by keeping multiple versions of Logic on my production computer, but it's annoying (sometimes I open a project in the newer version inadvertently and have to re-do the work after having restored from a backup…). Contrast with Pro-Tools that lets you export to formats compatible with the 1990s. 

 

The Marquee tool is one of the best things about Logic, but it's a little wonky compared to Pro-Tools. 

 

Flex Pitch is really neat, but it can be a little buggy sometimes. 

 

 

I love the fact that I can save channel strips out of Logic and use them directly in GarageBand for live performances. 

Thanks for the "real world" overview, much appreciated. I guess the Fresno hillbilly version of "hearing fleas cough" is "doesn't mean shit to a tree", more or less. 

I can't open any Waveform 11 or 12 sessions in Waveform 10 either. My workaround has been to open the Waveform 11 or 12 session and export all the tracks as individual .wav files. 

Then I can create a session in Waveform 10 and import those .wav files. As long as I don't click "Remove silence at beginning and end" command when I export, the tracks will all line up perfectly when imported. I've recently brought a client's Waveform 12 session into Waveform 10 that way and it's fine. 

That should probably work in Logic as well, may be worth a try for some sessions. 

 

I watched a basic demonstration of Drummer that is posted on "Why Logic Pro Rules" YouTube page. My internet sucks right now or I'd post a link. I'll try again later. Cell phone HotSpot until I can move back into my condo. 

 

You probably know it better than the presenter did although they seemed to have it pretty well figured out. That looks like an efficient way to build a drum track for my songs. 

I want to try it, MODO Drum is pretty OK but it seems Drummer spares you the time of searching for loops that "almost work", there is still the tweaking stage but you get to it much more quickly. That is good efficiency. 

 

It's going to be a bit of a learning curve but I don't want to be stuck in Catalina. Waveform 11 was buggy as hell and had 21 updates that didn't fix the problems. Waveform 12 isn't behaving as specified either. It makes sense to me to use the DAW that was written by the same company as the OS and you are correct, there are lots of great features and software for the money. Craig Anderton recommended it as well, that's why I downloaded the 90 day trial. 

 

I don't expect anything to be perfect, just functional and more or less current. 

 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I had to ponder this one, as a happily biased Logic lover.

 

I gave up a buggy DAW I'd come to loathe and took up Logic with v.8, which was reportedly much smoother to use than its predecessors. Fresh air reigned from the outset, because the thing is ultra-stable, largely due to the hand-in-glove relationship between Logic and the Mac OS. Its improved steadily over time, in terms of its bundled tools, streamlining of various features and bug fixing.

 

Alchemy kicks major synth ass, with several methods under the hood. The acoustic brass and string plugs are excellent. The ES2 VA needed attention several versions back, but its no FAIL, just outmatched lately. The EP plug (Rhodes & Wurly) is an accurate WIN for me. You may want better AC piano and guitar options, as I did, but the bundle overall is impressive.   

 

As a guitarist, you'll probably appreciate the ease of setting things up on the fly. I can grab tracks as I go with few ripples.
I can easily see you setting up a template for Triple Play that would open up the other options like a nice pedal board.
   
You might be drawn to a few third-party options, but the effects strips you can build in-house are highly comprehensive. Reverb options run from modest ones like those we see as part of many synths to biggies like Space Designer and Chromaverb.

 

I acknowledge the difference in approaches, especially where Ableton Live is concerned. That one was well designed for DJ-minded use, where Logic feels more like a traditional multitrack. I get why some people are conversant in both. Logic now features Live Loops, a somewhat Ableton-like option, which makes sense for any DAW when its such a prominent approach for many players. Its become more a choice of a DAW's workflow style than any major lacks.

 

You always have to do that 160 bpm waltz when you upgrade, but its gotten progressively easier. Stepping up to the M1 was near-seamless. Its as big a leap for me as Logic 8 was for my work flow. I can only imagine what the M2 config is like, because the M1 is already blazing.   

 

This guy covers a lot of the subject well. Give it a read.

 

https://blog.landr.com/logic-vs-ableton/

 

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 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
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17 hours ago, David Emm said:


I had to ponder this one, as a happily biased Logic lover.

 

I gave up a buggy DAW I'd come to loathe and took up Logic with v.8, which was reportedly much smoother to use than its predecessors. Fresh air reigned from the outset, because the thing is ultra-stable, largely due to the hand-in-glove relationship between Logic and the Mac OS. Its improved steadily over time, in terms of its bundled tools, streamlining of various features and bug fixing.

 

Alchemy kicks major synth ass, with several methods under the hood. The acoustic brass and string plugs are excellent. The ES2 VA needed attention several versions back, but its no FAIL, just outmatched lately. The EP plug (Rhodes & Wurly) is an accurate WIN for me. You may want better AC piano and guitar options, as I did, but the bundle overall is impressive.   

 

As a guitarist, you'll probably appreciate the ease of setting things up on the fly. I can grab tracks as I go with few ripples.
I can easily see you setting up a template for Triple Play that would open up the other options like a nice pedal board.
   
You might be drawn to a few third-party options, but the effects strips you can build in-house are highly comprehensive. Reverb options run from modest ones like those we see as part of many synths to biggies like Space Designer and Chromaverb.

 

I acknowledge the difference in approaches, especially where Ableton Live is concerned. That one was well designed for DJ-minded use, where Logic feels more like a traditional multitrack. I get why some people are conversant in both. Logic now features Live Loops, a somewhat Ableton-like option, which makes sense for any DAW when its such a prominent approach for many players. Its become more a choice of a DAW's workflow style than any major lacks.

 

You always have to do that 160 bpm waltz when you upgrade, but its gotten progressively easier. Stepping up to the M1 was near-seamless. Its as big a leap for me as Logic 8 was for my work flow. I can only imagine what the M2 config is like, because the M1 is already blazing.   

 

This guy covers a lot of the subject well. Give it a read.

 

https://blog.landr.com/logic-vs-ableton/

 

Great post, Mr. Emm!!!! 

It's serendipitous in that a friend of mine just mentioned wanting to get into digital music and mentioned Ableton. I suggested she also consider Logic and NI Maschine as options. I sent her the link you posted above as a starting point. 

 

We plan on having a discussion, show and tell sort of thing. I'm guessing Ableton has a trial version, more difficult with Maschine since you need the hardware to really implement it but it looks like a good live rig to me. Since her budget is minuscule, I'm suggesting GarageBand to get started. She mentioned Reaper, I've not used it but people seem to like it. 

 

In the end, Logic is HUGE bang for the buck and as Mac friendly as you will get. Just above your post I mention Drummer and provide a link. Besides stability (Waveform 11 was a nightmare and 12 isn't working well beyond Catalina) THAT'S the software included in Logic that has me most interested. A drum program that uses AI to create a loop that fits the music you've created is a huge step forward compared to trying to find pre-created loops that are close enough to bother with tweaking. The tweaking will still need done but Drummer appears to get you close more quickly than testing umpty-bajillion loops looking for the least worst one to tweak on. 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Logic Pro is a great DAW packed with content - samples, synth engines, patches, fx, modeling fx, etc. etc.  For Mac owners the price is great.  It’s continuously updated and the developers always have their eyes and ears open for trends that others - Ableton, Cubase, DP, etc. are getting into and they try to stay competitive.   
 

Now, you can use Logic in two modes - easy view, which keeps it looking like garage band and hides complex stuff.  or pro view which opens up every parameter and feature.   

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6 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Great post, Mr. Emm!!!! 

It's serendipitous in that a friend of mine just mentioned wanting to get into digital music and mentioned Ableton. I suggested she also consider Logic and NI Maschine as options. I sent her the link you posted above as a starting point. 

 

If she's just starting, get her on GarageBand, not Logic!

 

It's the shortest way from idea to recorded track.

It's the Logic engine with a simplified interface that does stuff like Aux bus routing automatically and gives you access to the basic plugins plus any third-party ones you've installed. 

 

Any GB project is seamlessly openable in Logic, so if she outgrows it or wants additional polish, mixing, production, she can just pass it on or continue working on the same projects in Logic herself. 

 

The fact that it's FREE should make it a total no-brainer. That she can work across Mac and iPad might be a benefit, as well. 

 

The main limitation is that it cannot send MIDI to external instruments, so you're stuck playing internal instruments (the Logic ones, basically) via MIDI, or recording audio. 

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

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1 hour ago, analogika said:

 

If she's just starting, get her on GarageBand, not Logic!

 

It's the shortest way from idea to recorded track.

It's the Logic engine with a simplified interface that does stuff like Aux bus routing automatically and gives you access to the basic plugins plus any third-party ones you've installed. 

 

Any GB project is seamlessly openable in Logic, so if she outgrows it or wants additional polish, mixing, production, she can just pass it on or continue working on the same projects in Logic herself. 

 

The fact that it's FREE should make it a total no-brainer. That she can work across Mac and iPad might be a benefit, as well. 

 

The main limitation is that it cannot send MIDI to external instruments, so you're stuck playing internal instruments (the Logic ones, basically) via MIDI, or recording audio. 

Actually, I did tell her to start with GarageBand. She has budget constraints and will need some gear too. I told her she can grow into Logic as time goes on.

If she's happy with GarageBand then she can stay there. She is still pondering Ableton and I threw NI Maschine into the mix since it seems she wants something more "spontaneous" although that could change since I don't think she can afford either (or Logic).

 

Lucky for her, she was working at a music store that had just changed hands and they assigned her to take care of their "garage sale" moving items that were left by the previous owner and some inventory that they were not going to carry anymore. 

I dropped by to see what she had on offer and walked out with a pair of used AKG D224 mics (one had a dead low frequency capsule), a well worn but good Sennheiser MD421 and a new in the box set of EX-25 Extreme Isolation headphones, all for $125. I sold the broken AKG for $70, the working AKG for $250 (I used it for a while and didn't bond with it) and kept the MD421 and the headphones, which work very well for tracking vocals without any bleed. 

 

I'm inclined to give her a absurd deal on some things she will need to get up and running, with bonus goodies to boot. It's only fair, she gave me a great deal already so I can help her get started. 

I've had some of this gear on craigslist for a while and it doesn't seem to be moving. Things happen for a reason, maybe that stuff is supposed to be hers. She has been a good friend over the years.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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19 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Logic Pro is a great DAW packed with content - samples, synth engines, patches, fx, modeling fx, etc. etc.  For Mac owners the price is great.  It’s continuously updated and the developers always have their eyes and ears open for trends that others - Ableton, Cubase, DP, etc. are getting into and they try to stay competitive.   
 

Now, you can use Logic in two modes - easy view, which keeps it looking like garage band and hides complex stuff.  or pro view which opens up every parameter and feature.   

Apple has downloadable manuals as well, all 3 are at the bottom of this page: https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/welcome/mac

A formidable total of 2,300 total pages covering Logic Pro, Instruments, and Effects. 

 

I'm finding this blog useful as well: https://whylogicprorules.com/blog/

The LPX Workflow Checklist has useful information and there are two free templates for Mixing and Mastering available as well. On the right side of the page is a place to download those or you could just go here: https://courses.whylogicprorules.com/free-tools

The Checklist has links to blogs, I plan on saving those as .pdf files. Current strategy is to have all information on my laptop over to the side, fire up Logic Pro and bumble about, reading as needed to navigate until memory sets in and I can just do stuff. 

 

I'll be the first to admit this all makes my tiny brain hurt. That said, I don't think learning the basics will be too difficult and most of the time, that's all I need. 

The manuals are all obviously written to help anybody, including people with no experience recording. I'm a bit past that stage at least. 

 

As always, no affiliation with any of the above. I'm just a humble web surfer sharing what I consider useful information. 
It would be cool to compile all the Logic Pro links in this thread for everybody to check out so feel free to drop them here. 

I'm sure I'll be back with more. Cheers, Kuru

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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OK, on the bottom of the pages in this condensed manual - https://courses.whylogicprorules.com/free-tools

there are links to more complete blogs. If you click on the links, the blogs will open. 

In Safari go to File > Print (bottom of the drop down menu). The popup that appears has a PDF tab on the lower left, click for the drop down and then choose the second option > "Save as PDF". 

You can pick a destination, I usually choose Desktop, then make a folder specific to the topic on the Desktop and put all relevant files in there. 

Saves a click opening the Documents folder, I can always drop it in there later when I get up and running. 

I drop the folder into a backup drive as well. 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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On 8/6/2022 at 10:27 AM, Bill Heins said:

The last time I used Logic it was from eMagic and I ran it in Windows :)

 

Bill

 

The last time I tried to program a Mirage rack in hexidecimal, I nearly ran THROUGH a window.

 

I'd guide someone who was tied to a PC and was new to DAWs to Reaper first. Its work flow is much like that of the competition, its no-brainer cheap and it has a fervent support community. Its a smart place to start for getting the feel of things. It can be used in a very basic manner, of course, but its plug-in friendly enough to become a go-to.

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 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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I'm a fan, having used it now and then over the years, although my focus is on live performance, so I use Mainstage.

 

Once I got my new 14" M! Pro Max MBP, I updated logic (and mainstage), and Logic absolutely flies.  It loads up projects "right now", and has been stable so far.

Some of my ease of use is due to being a Mainstage user since the last version of version 2.xx , and now on the latest Version 3.6.whatever, so looking at Logic and channel strips, buses, and so forth just feels natural.

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David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've recently started using Logic again after a several year absence. I had used Logic Pro 9 enough to get a couple songs completed and then I "upgraded" the OS to 10.13 and it killed the program! I'm still not entirely over that but I had Logic X preinstalled on the MBP I bought in 2021 and have finally started working in it a little. It's comprehensive and reasonably easy to work with so far but I'm a relatively experienced DAW user having created many songs over the years most notably with 12tone/Cakewalk/Sonar, Reason and Digital Performer (which continues to be my preference due to my experience with it).

 

The one I still haven't accomplished anything with yet is Ableton Live where I've gone from ver 8 up to 11.

 

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Thanks for your question. I've been using Logic since it was an Emagic Midi-only sequencer. I switched to Cubase when they brought out the VST audio stuff, dabbled with Pro Tools for a bit, then switched back to Logic Pro (and MainStage) a few years ago. I think the big DAWs are quite similar these days. If you want a loop friendly environment you would lean toward Ableton, if you wish to do some modular synth inspired automation, maybe Bitwig is more your speed, but generally they are all mature products and very capable. 

 

What do I like about Logic Pro X? The integration with MainStage is convenient. Drummer is very fast for musical sketches and you can edit professional sounding tracks in a detailed way afterward. Logic's midi editing is quite quick. Track delays, quantizing, swing etc are intuitive. I don't do a lot of highly detailed audio editing. There could be better tools for audio. Perhaps a Pro Tools user would chafe at the workflow? The Logic instruments are very usable, although I use third party instruments much of the time. My favorite Logic instruments are the physically modeled synth Sculpture and the powerhouse synth Alchemy. Similarly the effects are very useful and they are low cpu.

 

I love the way you can automate almost any plugin parameter. There are these "MIDI EFX" which can serve as LFOs and envelopes and to rechannelize MIDI CC's. I love those! There is also a MIDI transform window which is more encyclopedic than the MIDI EFX in what it can do, but I don't usually need such drastic editing. Perhaps, similar tools are available on other DAWS but I love how with Logic's FlexTime I can noodle around as keyboardists often do. Logic then calculates the tempo changes to give me a usable tempo map while preserving my rubato. It's very cool!

 

The mixer environment, busses and auxes are straightforward to use. Recently Logic has added support for Dolby Atmos Spatial Audio and I am very excited to try that out.

 

What could be improved? First the scoring page is a little un-intuitive. I've exported MIDI to notation to finish things up sometimes, but for me it's not a major factor since I'm not doing any large ensemble scoring at the moment. Secondly, as with any complex piece of software such as a DAW, Logic Pro has a learning curve.

 

Basically Logic is well integrated with the Apple ecosystem, it's well documented, it encourages musical exploration and it's reliable! 

 

BTW Chris Vandeviver's Why Logic Pro Rules is a very helpful YouTube channel with a high signal to noise ratio. I am not affiliated with him in anyway. He just seems to anticipate my questions and he puts up videos to address them. Nice.  👍

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Thanks Greg M and Tusker for your thoughtful replies. 

As my demo burns up days with not much time to dive in, I'm thinking I'll just buy Logic and over time I can evolve to a different workflow than the one I'm currently using (which is not bad but it seems Logic is ready to go running Monterey NOW, not at some undermined time in the future. I got an M1 Mac Mini for a reason!

 

This quote from Tusker is the crux of the biscuit at this point in my life "Secondly, as with any complex piece of software such as a DAW, Logic Pro has a learning curve."

It does, it's not so much that it does things differently, all the things that I do in Waveform are there. They just are in different places and/or named different names. There will be an adjustment period and then the endless, infinite learning curve that all good DAWS offer now. 

 

Sir Tusker, I found Chris V's Why Logic Pro Rules website with all of his tutorials and his invitation for Logic users to ask questions. It's a great resource. 

I have all 3 of Apple's manuals downloaded, they are extensive (total of around 2,500 pages) so I know I will be more in the "scratch the surface" group for a good long while. 

So it goes, I've been playing guitar for 53 years and I can stand tall on my own hill and see gigantic mountains off in the distance. The never-ending challenge keeps things interesting, no?

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It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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On 8/30/2022 at 3:26 PM, Tusker said:

Chris Vandeviver's Why Logic Pro Rules is a very helpful YouTube channel with a high signal to noise ratio. I am not affiliated with him in anyway. He just seems to anticipate my questions and he puts up videos to address them. Nice.  👍

 

That's a great tip, I just subscribed, thanks!

 

I've been a member of the Logic Users Group for many years although my visits there have been rare over the last few years. Just a little while ago I went to pull out a book on Ableton Live I knew I had stashed away and happened upon a book I'd forgotten I had, The Power in Logic Pro written by Dot Bustelo. She writes that she was part of the "worldwide logic team" working for Apple and Emagic before. It's a bit dated perhaps but I hope to find some useful info in there.

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