The end of MODX?

[zephonic]

Frankly, I never got on all that well with my MODX8.  But it has made me aware that at some point I'm really gonna want a Montage 7. The FM synth stuff is really cool.

[Mr -G-]

Could they be saving chips for a rack version?

[AnotherScott]

46 minutes ago, Mr -G- said:

Could they be saving chips for a rack version?

Nah. Considering the history and market for rack modules, even if they were actually entertaining re-entering that market (unlikely, IMO), If they don't have enough chips, I can't imagine they would stop production of a known top-seller for what would almost certainly be a less profitable offering.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Got a MODX7 reserved for me at my favorite (formerly local) music store...will be picking it up around the 2nd week of August. Trying to sell the MX61 semi-locally due to shipping concerns (I've had around 3k of used gear I purchased damaged by UPS, FedEx, and USPS in the last few years), but I can afford to play the long game if needed on it.

[HammondDave]

I think it’s kind of silly to buy a dead product now. A lot of musicians use the MODX, but that does not excuse the poor build quality of the instrument, and the cheap clacking keyboard.  It’s my hope that Yamaha replaces the DX with the new fatar keyboards. I would certainly pay a few hundred dollars more for that. 

[ProfD]

34 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

I think it’s kind of silly to buy a dead product now.

Depends on the cost.😁

 

Back in the mid-2000s, I bought a brand new Motif ES8 for almost 1/2 the original price.  The ES8s were being blown out when the Motif XS was released.  The ES and XS basically had the same sounds. 

 

In fact, Yamaha has been rehashing those same sounds for over 20 years now.  Whenever I pull up a sound on newer Yamaha KBs, I see the same patch names from the S80 I had back in 1999.🤣

 

The build quality is a lot of different nowadays.  Par for the course as musicians have clamored  for lighter-weight KBs. 😎

[Stokely]

I'd have to compare directly to be sure, but I used to own a Motif and the MODX sounds a fair bit better to my ear.  

Heck it basically has a DX7 inside it, then again not everyone wants a DX7    Personally I love the FM engine for pads, it sounds fantastic.   The sample-based synths sound better too, and probably the fx,  but you need to ignore almost all the stock synth patches and start building some from the element level on up to tell.   There is one--one!--mono synth patch that sounds decent to me and that comes down simply to choices in programming by whoever made those patches.

I would certainly welcome a fatar keybed such as that in a Virus or pc361.   I wouldn't mind a bit more weight as well; I don't like it when a keyboard feels like it might slide off a stand if bumped slightly.  Granted I don't want to gig a 60 pound Montage 8 either    Nord electro does that part right, compact and well-built.   And while I haven't been able to find one in the wild, the YC line looks like they followed suit on build quality or maybe improved (from some comments).

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

I'd have to compare directly to be sure, but I used to own a Motif and the MODX sounds a fair bit better to my ear.  

Probably so but mainly from your perspective as a musician.  Otherwise, the difference is negligible especially on the gig battlefield.😎

[Stokely]

True enough.  But really when you get down to it, plenty of people gig with older machines like a Triton (or were not long ago) whose specs are far lesser than keyboards of today.   End of the day the only person who *really* cares that much about sound is the person playing, that is my impression after being in various bands.  I've very occasionally been complimented on a sound or two, most recently on B-3X several times.  Nobody can believe that sound is coming from an ipad

It was a bit gratifying to have our bass player turn and say "that sound is spot-on!" for a MODX "analog" patch I made for one song.  I personally don't think it's that fantastic, but he seemed to like it!

[ProfD]

3 minutes ago, Stokely said:

End of the day the only person who *really* cares that much about sound is the person playing

While the audience here *knows* it...that doesn't keep us from whining about the pros and cons of gear and pining for newer gear and complaining about its shortcomings too.  Rinse and repeat. 🤣

 

Seriously, most working musicians get the right tool(s) regardless of whether it is old or new for the *job* of creating and/or playing music.😎

[Stokely]

Very true, I think it's the hobbyists like me (weekend warrior types) that generate most of the ruminating about gear

Someone had a hilarious comment on a youtube vid I was watching, a guitar lesson.   Something along the lines of:  "I spend 5 minutes a day practicing and 2 hours watching people show me how to play."  Sadly this applies to me far more than is healthy.

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, HammondDave said:

A lot of musicians use the MODX, but that does not excuse the poor build quality of the instrument, and the cheap clacking keyboard.

Which action do find clacky? The one in the MODX6/7 or the one in the MODX8? (The one in the MODX7 seems pretty decent to me, for what it is.)

[Mighty Motif Max]

3 hours ago, HammondDave said:

I think it’s kind of silly to buy a dead product now. A lot of musicians use the MODX, but that does not excuse the poor build quality of the instrument, and the cheap clacking keyboard.  It’s my hope that Yamaha replaces the DX with the new fatar keyboards. I would certainly pay a few hundred dollars more for that. 

I tend to buy boards that are being discontinued for a few reasons, namely stability (bugs are more worked out), existing user community/content/support, and oftentimes a good discount. Take my Motif XF8 - I bought it in May 2016 after the Montage was announced, and it was one of the last in any US warehouse. Total price from my local store minus the $500 Yamaha rebate offer got me a $3,699 keyboard for around $2,500 brand new. So it can pay off.

 

In my case this time around the keys aren’t a big issue - I gigged a Krome for a few years fine, and I’m upgrading my lightweight upper board for this, which is a Yamaha MX61 (which is an even cheaper board down the line from the MODX). It’s not the same as if I were replacing my Motif with it. This keyboard’s function is to be the second half of my lightweight rig over a PC4, which itself is a light plastic build. If I want heavier weight and a metal build, I have my Motif XF8 and Fantom 7. That’s the opposite of my use case here. From the standpoint of moving up from the MX61, what I gain are:

 

- Better sounds (I missed the quality of the Motif sounds that were stripped down too far IMO in the MX, both in effects and in samples)

- Faders

- More usable midi channels (the MX’s channel limitations have proven difficult when integrating it with a board like my Fantom 7 where organs are locked to channel 2 and V-Pianos are locked to Channel 1).

- More flexible iOS/Computer integration

- Most importantly, a light Yamaha board that I can use self-contained with the full Motif soundset, plus as a bonus FM-X and the improved brass patches.

 

I just have come to the conclusion that  my setup needs have shifted significantly in the past year or two, and the MX wasn’t fitting the bill anymore. I also realized that I really miss the nice flagship Yamaha patches, especially when doing worship gigs. Since the lightweight rig is what I’m playing nine months out of the year, it made sense to address that. I have zero confidence that Yamaha will still have all the Motif patches in a MODX successor, or that they would address my main “issues” with the Montage/MODX anyways (namely midi limitations and the sequencer; wheels to the side for the MODX). I’d been on the fence for a while - I should have gotten a MOXF6 instead of the MX back then, but I thought the MX would be sufficient.

 

The other feature of the MODX that I really would like is one probably not often used by most of our members - the sidechain ability (trigger a sidechain on your patches live from a kick drum mic or similar). That’s something of a mainstay in a lot of the band music I end up playing now, and it would be nice to not have to use and abuse the expression pedal to get that effect. 

 

So that’s my rationale and use case. TLDR: I view this as a substantial upgrade for my MX61, taking its place in the lightweight travel rig. From that standpoint the action and build are a moot point.

[Stokely]

Interesting about the sidechain stuff...I use sidechaining in mixing but didn't realize the Modx had that feature.  That said, the sidechain I'd rather have is to have the guitar duck down when *I'm* playing    Come to think of it, I could probably make that happen as I have access to the main mixer....hah!

[Mills Dude]

3 hours ago, ProfD said:

While the audience here *knows* it...that doesn't keep us from whining about the pros and cons of gear and pining for newer gear and complaining about its shortcomings too.  Rinse and repeat. 🤣

 

Seriously, most working musicians get the right tool(s) regardless of whether it is old or new for the *job* of creating and/or playing music.😎

Yeah, one of my favorite working bands in the NY/NJ area is The Nerds.  These guys do like 200+ shows a year, constantly working for more than 35 years.  Keyboard player's been using the same Korg 01/W and Triton Studio for who knows how long with a Peavy KB something or other amp for a monitor. I've talked to him a few times, the rig does what he needs to do.  I'm not even sure he's got backups and he ain't worried about the accuracy of his leslie sim.  These guys pack the Jersey Shore all summer because they know how to deliver a good time. 

[Fleer]

Today from Saul @yamahamusicians: “I only know for sure that the MODX is no longer in production and no more units are being shipped. I have no idea what they plan to replace it with or when that might happen. They gave me a very vague indication that something was coming but nothing more than that ”

[HammondDave]

I guess that the bean counters have another plan. As much as I dislike the build quality and keyboard of the ModX, it fills the niche for an affordable solution for the keyboardist on a budget. Very few can afford a Nord or a Montage. I would be surprised if Yamaha is abandoning this market segment. 

[Stokely]

Again that is odd and against the recent norms of decades for the lower model to be discontinued before the higher one.  So, I have a chain of supposition, just for fun (apologies if anyone read thing on the yamaha forum!):

- Suppose that the recent Yamaha trademark of AN-X means a new engine that they *might* want to add to the Montage and Modx (like "FM-X")
- Suppose this new hypothetical engine requires more processing power than the Modx can handle, but the Montage (which iirc has more power) can
- Suppose they want to add it to both, but because of the point above, they need a new Modx; the existing Montage can do it!

Hey fun to imagine scenarios!

What I can't imagine is Yamaha coming out with a "MODX 2" that has something the Montage doesn't.   A whole new MODX would surely have to have some big improvement to warrant the cost of it being designed, made, and taking over an existing product...  I also can't imagine them ditching the MODX without anything taking it's spot in their lineup.

 

[CyberGene]

^ I wanted to post something around the lines of what you said but got distracted. Sounds pretty plausible to me. 
 

P.S. In addition to the analog modeled engine, I would bet on a tonewheel engine too. That will put it on par with the competition, especially the latest Fantom-0 series. I also bet the lower tier workstations such as these are much more popular than their bigger brothers, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Yamaha starts with a completely new MODX that would have some new features lacking in the Montage until the latter gets updated too. 

[Stokely]

Yeah, it's the old "come up with a plausible solution to fit what we know" mentality.  Which most likely means it's 100% wrong

[ProfD]

Adding a new sound engine and better implementation of the pattern sequencer and sample import capability would bring the MODX more in line with the competition.   

 

I think brotha @Stephen Fortner is on to something with MODX-S. 😎

[AnotherScott]

14 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

P.S. In addition to the analog modeled engine, I would bet on a tonewheel engine too. That will put it on par with the competition, especially the latest Fantom-0 series. 

 

That would indeed make it more "checkmark-competitive." Roland and Kurzweil's competitive modes have VA and clonewheel. Korg doesn't have a board of this type quite at the MODX price point... the Krome EX, which lacks those engines, is noticeably cheaper; the Nautilus which has those engines (and more) is pricier. But if you look at the line sideways, Korg does offer the Vox Continental, which has those engines.

[Stokely]

The thought of the YC organ engine being in the Montage/Modx-s       makes me want to hold off on upgrading my aging ipad.  It's basically part of my Modx primarily to use organ apps.   Still works very reliably though, despite being older and unsupported.     I'd probably get a regular ipad 9th gen anyway though so not like I'm breaking the bank even if I ended up not using it in my live rig.   The ipad works reliably but it's one more thing to set up, make sure it's charged, etc that I wouldn't have to worry about.

From what I have heard that new YC sounds better than the Fantom's organ, I'm pretty familiar with the VR700 organ and that's a decent sound, but the YC sounds better in the demos I've heard.

I wonder if that's even a possibility considering that a Modx with YC organ might affect YC sales.  I'd be all for it though!
 

[bill bosco]

15 hours ago, Fleer said:

Today from Saul @yamahamusicians: “I only know for sure that the MODX is no longer in production and no more units are being shipped. I have no idea what they plan to replace it with or when that might happen. They gave me a very vague indication that something was coming but nothing more than that ”

that is news , i like my MODX 7 a lot , does everything that i need it for very well . my biggest gripe with it is not the action , it's the narrow keybed , i still 

find it very awkward . if they fixed only that and nothing else , i'd buy a new one , other than that , my 7 is a keeper .

[Sunlight2]

Big fan of MODX 7 too, and as I understand it MODX has been one of Yamaha's biggest sellers so quite surprising to hear this. I think adding a YC organ would definitely cannibalise sales so i'd be surprised if they did that. 

FWIW I tried a YC 73 today with a view to replacing Nord Electro 6 73...but actually found the organ, even with the update, not quite as good.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, bill bosco said:

that is news , i like my MODX 7 a lot , does everything that i need it for very well . my biggest gripe with it is not the action , it's the narrow keybed , i still 

find it very awkward . if they fixed only that and nothing else , i'd buy a new one 

yeah, not gonna happen. Not only is that the only non-hammer action width they've used for decades, but also, even a "simple" change like that would mean they would have to fabricate a new chassis, because the keyboard would end up having to be wider.

 

34 minutes ago, Sunlight2 said:

I think adding a YC organ would definitely cannibalise sales

I wouldn't be so sure the impact would be so severe. The boards largely appeal to users who prefer to work different ways (simpler, hands-on dedicated controls vs. more complicated, menus and multi-function controls). After all, the MODX doesn't stop people from buying the CP73/88. If a MODX had a YC-calibre organ, the YC would still be the one a potential Nord customer might look at.

[Jose EB5AGV]

My take on what happens at Yamaha headquarters:

 

-They have the second generation of Montage (let's call it Montage 2) on an advanced development level

-They planned to get it out before the lower cost MODX equivalent

-But chip crisis prevents to continue selling at the same time MODX and Montage until Montage 2 is ready

-So they remove the MODX line to keep the Montage available until Montage 2 is ready

-Then it will replace current Montage line and, after a while, the new MODX 2 series will be launched 

 

That will follow Yamaha usual procedure, with the current MODX glitch being a deviation caused by external circumstances.

 

Just guessing...

 

Jose

[Docbop]

Economy is getting bad, supply chain isn't recovering that fast, time to juggle the SKUs.   MoDX was priced aggressively to grab market share, which mean profit margins isn't as good as their other boards.  The market is changing since the pandemic and more DIY focused.   So maybe a new board designed more for the DIY market like the new AKAI MPC 61 is coming and Yamaha will take chips they were destined for MoDX and repurpose them for the new board.      The MoDx became a big competitor to Yamaha own Montage so that alone good reasons to say bye MoDX, plus they are probably tired of all the whining about the MoDX keybed.   So Yamaha gets the SKUs in line Montage at the top then YC, CP,  and then a new board for DIY market.    

 

Yamaha lineup of boards there is room for even more to go to cut down on SKU, have parts for other products and have lean mean lineup of keyboards.   

[CyberGene]

If I were one of those guys who are interested in Montage rather than MODX, but Yamaha first announced a MODX v2, I would buy it anyway. And when they released a Montage v2 later, I would say “F*ck it, YOLO” and will get it too. This way Yamaha will sell more than if they do the other way around 😜 

[AnotherScott]

10 hours ago, Sunlight2 said:

FWIW I tried a YC 73 today with a view to replacing Nord Electro 6 73...but actually found the organ, even with the update, not quite as good.

I assume you confirmed that the YC73 did have the update installed. But something easily missed is that the update does not alter the original factory patches. If you want to hear the new rotary, you either have to navigate to one of the new (higher numbered) Live Sets that have it (nothing on the first 11 pages will have it), or you have to manually select the updated rotary effect within whatever Live Set you're on. (Even if you don't specifically choose a Live Set, when you turn the unit on, you will be in Live Set #1. It will not have the new rotary unless you go to a menu and change it.)