So Now Musk Doesn't Want Twitter After All

[KuruPrionz]

2 hours ago, David Emm said:

Now Twitter has an owner whose madness matches that of the majority of the members. I wonder which part will explode in flames first? 🔥

The first thing that will happen is that advertisers will withdraw completely, leaving Elon to pay for everything himself. 

The next thing that will happen is the stock will plummet. 

Those 2 are obvious, there are probably other possibilities, mostly worse. So it goes. 

[KuruPrionz]

And, an article this evening. Twitter stock has been de-listed on the NY Stock Exchange since Elon Musk owns all shares. There's more to come out of this story. 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/twitter-delisted-york-stock-exchange-124708388.html

[ajstan]

I think that the caterwauling about Musk buying Twitter is rooted in the fear that one side may now have to defend its positions in the public arena rather than simply labeling all opposing thought as dangerous and worthy of suppression and punishment (social, financial, and/or physical). 

[David Emm]

Toddlers go through a phase called Oppositional Defiance, in which the answer to everything is "NO!!" It can be amusing, unless it lasts until you start dabbling in politics. Then its a big old steaming pile of pathology.

 

I followed Twitter for a while. The real shame of it was the genuinely funny moments or touching videos, because the rest of it is a bitch-slap fight between millions of centipedes. Its like eating fast food in an airport terminal, where the noise level is barely below that of the aircraft. 

 

There's very little chance that I'll become a Zen Buddhist, but I'm increasingly amused by how practicing Less Is More keeps doing wonderful things for me. Its true of shunning cable news and true of my music. All I have to do in the latter case is delete 3 overwrought tracks of needless synth blather that are causing the piece sound like a dozen jets falling on Bruce Willis. ✈️🔥

[KuruPrionz]

8 hours ago, ajstan said:

I think that the caterwauling about Musk buying Twitter is rooted in the fear that one side may now have to defend its positions in the public arena rather than simply labeling all opposing thought as dangerous and worthy of suppression and punishment (social, financial, and/or physical). 

I think you are over-emphasizing other people's reactions. Whatever. 

I don't care if Twitter succeeds or fails, I have zero skin in that game. It just looks to me like Elon bit off way more than he can chew. 

We'll know more soon. It's not like people don't already post whatever they want all over the place anyway. His "freedom of speech" idea is nothing new and it remains to be proven if he really means it or it's just subjective bullpuckey. 

I'd bet dollars to donuts that people posting on Twitter about how Tesla cars are crap will get deleted. 😇

[Theo Verelst]

The trivial desires of certain special people aside, clearly there is a steep price for democratic communication.

 

I made an account very long ago, hardly ever used it, but why is it such a big deal? It can't be the basic tech, I could write that in a day  or the particular attraction, there gave been and are many messenger services. Maybe the leadership must safeguard themselves against betrayal or corruption and nobody of the fired board wanted to pass on the capital injection.

 

It sounds like between the level of a ground keeper and mild salesmanship the most noise is generated. As discussions about tevh giants appear to develop, parties in the end seldom learn the truth, most appear to continue their obsessions or interests.

 

Making an electric car or a rocketship to mars cannot be denied having my interest, but I think twitter is a matter of Artificial Intelligence control. Saying more probably isn't a good idea.

[David Emm]

Twitter and many other such outlets are (largely) where people go to express their frustrations >unfiltered<. If you talked like that in real life, you'd be punched out of your shoes. That was what made me vacate it and why I stick with KC. I like Crazy, which tops out at about 120 dB. Insane really kicks in at 150 dB and begins liquifying my ear wax. The police are also likely to make an appearance.

 

My nice ex (foolishly) had glassware on a mantle all too beloved by her main dominant female cat. She'd swat her on the butt, say GET! DOWN! and the cat would promptly zoom across the room to bat our baffled dog in the face. Animals hand it down the line. Same thing with social media. Its called The Circle of Spite.  

[dixonge]

SpaceX, Tesla, Starlink. All successful, all involve lots of computer code and physical manufacturing (and multitudinous other business interactions) on a GLOBAL scale.

 

Twitter is just code. 

 

I'll never understand why people think Elon could be amazingly successful, to the point where he is the richest man in the world, yet taking over Twitter and fixing it is deemed to be an impossible task for him. It defies logic...

[KuruPrionz]

2 hours ago, dixonge said:

SpaceX, Tesla, Starlink. All successful, all involve lots of computer code and physical manufacturing (and multitudinous other business interactions) on a GLOBAL scale.

 

Twitter is just code. 

 

I'll never understand why people think Elon could be amazingly successful, to the point where he is the richest man in the world, yet taking over Twitter and fixing it is deemed to be an impossible task for him. It defies logic...

AND, all involve inanimate objects.

 

Being zookeeper for the Human Zoo is not the same thing at all. The code is already in place, a couple of tweaks here and there maybe. 

Is Elon a master at dealing with millions of people, all different and all in various states of disagreement with each other and with him?

 

That remains to be seen. I decline to predict it. 

 

I will say that the 3 successful corporate takeovers of companies that were my source of employment involved a transition period of anywhere from 4 to 6 months and that a large part of the previous corporate team were kept on long enough to glean important information. 

 

It's Musk's human zoo now, he wasted no time clearing out those who could have been helpful if he'd stopped thinking he was the be-all / end-all and made an attempt to learn what is actually happening.  So, I guess we'll see what is actually happening soon enough. I have stuff to worry about but Twitter isn't it. 

[ajstan]

2 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

I have stuff to worry about but Twitter isn't it. 

Interesting, because you have 13 of the 39 posts to-date in this thread about Twitter. 😄

[KuruPrionz]

56 minutes ago, ajstan said:

Interesting, because you have 13 of the 39 posts to-date in this thread about Twitter. 😄

Ahh, but talking about Twitter and actually worrying about are two different things. 

I'm easily amused, I guess others feel like they have to be serious about nonsense?

 

Just taking a break from the real world, I don't watch TV so I waste time other ways. Apparently I am somehow interesting too... *yawn...* 

[KenElevenShadows]

I am not a Twitter lover by any stretch, and don't spend very much time on it.

 

I do realize, however, that Twitter is a lot of things. It's this incredibly clever way of interacting with people that you might not ordinarily be able to, almost like texting someone. Now, if there's someone interesting - artist, recording engineer, sports figure, singer, whatever - you might find it interesting to begin interacting with them.

 

There's also this crucial, vital sort of usage for communication, such as was used in the Arab Spring uprising or is often used in countries such as Iran for communication. And there, it really performs a beautiful role. This is one area where it shines.

 

Then, of course, there's the cesspool, the sewer of humanity. I don't need to describe what that's like to any of you, I think. 

 

But I feel like even if I personally am disinterested in it, because of the above, I cannot dismiss it entirely as something utterly devoid of worth.

[o0Ampy0o]

On 10/28/2022 at 6:10 PM, David Emm said:

Now Twitter has an owner whose madness matches that of the majority of the members. I wonder which part will explode in flames first? 🔥

Speaking of madness, Donald Trump’s biggest loss wasn’t the presidency it was his Twitter account.  

[ajstan]

Multiple posts in this thread use the words, "madness" and "cesspool" and as far as I can tell, "madness" means, "any ideas that I don't understand or agree with," and "cesspool" means, "a place (virtual or physical) where ideas are expressed that I don't understand or agree with."

 

From public statements, Elon Musk's goal is specifically to comply with speech laws and make Twitter a place where everyone can find a safe space to interact.  Not sure why that's controversial to anyone that doesn't have a stake in keeping Twitter exactly like it was before October 28. 

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, ajstan said:

Multiple posts in this thread use the words, "madness" and "cesspool" and as far as I can tell, "madness" means, "any ideas that I don't understand or agree with," and "cesspool" means, "a place (virtual or physical) where ideas are expressed that I don't understand or agree with."

 

From public statements, Elon Musk's goal is specifically to comply with speech laws and make Twitter a place where everyone can find a safe space to interact.  Not sure why that's controversial to anyone that doesn't have a stake in keeping Twitter exactly like it was before October 28. 

There is something you may be missing.

Twitter exists in it's present state by generating advertising dollars. They became prosperous enough due to advertising to be posted on the NY Stock Exchange.

Musk now owns all the stock so it is off the market.

 

General Motors quickly took a stance that they would back off and watch, they are currently not a source of income for Twitter. That is a big account, you cannot lose to many of those or they will all leave.  It's just a guess but one of their concerns could well be that there will be a huge Tesla advertising campaign. If that happens, GM may not be the only automobile manufacturer who finds a different place for their advertising dollars. 

 

Make no mistake, in the end Twitter is a vehicle for advertising, that was their sole source of income. Companies advertise on platforms like Twitter if the books show that they are making money by doing so, that's the bottom line and it will not change.

 

Musk is discussing an annual fee for a certain level of Twit status, it hasn't happened yet and has not been well received so far. 

 

Quoted from your post above (with a light correction since you are talking about 2 different things):

"From public statements, Elon Musk's GOALS ARE specifically to comply with speech laws and make Twitter a place where everyone can find a safe space to interact." 

 

I'd love to see that happen, but those two things are difficult if not impossible to resolve. There will be posters pushing the limits of free speech constantly, that has already been happening, every minute of every day.

 

Moderating millions of Tweets daily is a massive undertaking, even if you have the best AI resources working for you. There are other nations who constantly troll Twitter with various sorts of propaganda, Russia and China just for 2. That has been a constant barrage and a constant battle. As we've seen recently, there are also plenty of individuals whose "free speech" impinges on the safety of others. That has been a problem for Twitter in the past and it may very well escalate (or worse yet, drive off advertising dollars, neither is a sustainable outcome).

 

The only way Twitter will survive is to maintain a robust set of advertising accounts. That may happen if things move quickly enough in the right direction. 

There is a choice that must be made and it needs to be made on the side of making Twitter a "safe place to interact". Which means that moderation will require speed and a total lack of mercy. If that cannot be done (and it is a HUGE undertaking), advertisers will leave quickly and that will be the end of that. 

 

Websites come and go, it won't be the first or last time. 

[ajstan]

Thanks, that’s quite the display of pedantry!  😄 Yes, Elon Musk's stated intentions for Twitter are noble.  Even he acknowledges that it will be difficult, and he may fail.  I'm glad he's trying and I'm not sure why a person of goodwill would root against him.

[o0Ampy0o]

I don't play with Twitter but from what I gather only a small percentage cares and follows its ownership. Many just use it and will continue until it ever breaks or ends permanently. There will be advertisers as long as there are patrons. There are trends people follow like sheep but generally the majority are not in agreement on anything. There wont be a certain mass exodus. If that happened it would be mere chance like it was just something that caught on and the momentum grew. The people making a stand based on its change of hands believe their contribution is significant enough to persuade others to follow their lead. It is all posturing to be heard and to manipulate hoping people see things their way. It is a loud mouthed Tweeter's dream to receive agreement with their  opinions and beliefs.

[Anderton]

Posting on social media = easy

Running a social media site = not easy

 

I'd love it if Twitter becomes a utopia for stimulating discussions, and a town square that provides a unified meeting place for people of all backgrounds. Then again, I'd also love it if dogs could speak English.

 

I don't think either one is going to happen.

[KuruPrionz]

5 hours ago, ajstan said:

Thanks, that’s quite the display of pedantry!  😄 Yes, Elon Musk's stated intentions for Twitter are noble.  Even he acknowledges that it will be difficult, and he may fail.  I'm glad he's trying and I'm not sure why a person of goodwill would root against him.

Here is a definition of Pedantry, from the Cambridge Dictionary:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/pedantry

Meaning of pedantry in English

 

pedantry

noun [ U ]

    disapprovingUK   /ˈped.ən.tri/ US   /ˈped.ən.tri/

 

the quality of being too interested in formal rules and small details that are not important: 

There was a hint of pedantry in his elegant style of speaking.

His speech was precise to the point of pedantry.

See

pedant

 More examples

It is not mere pedantry to insist on the proper use of grammar.

She recognizes the pedantry of the narrator's style.

His only fault was a tendency towards pedantry.

 

My post that you replied to was about the essential part that advertising plays in maintaining a social media website. 

If advertisers leave or back off and wait (as General Motors is now doing) then the money stops flowing. 

That is hardly pedantry, it is certainly possible that it could happen to Twitter if more mistakes are made. 

Will Elon choose "freedom of speech" or will he choose "a safe place for everybody", that is what will decide how advertisers feel about Twitter. 

It isn't a minor issue, his success pivots on that choice. He won't be able to have both. 

He and his staff will have their hands full with trolls, bots and political attacks as it is, they were a problem with Twitter before he bought it and that problem won't just disappear. 

 

You can disagree, I don't care in the slightest. Neither of us can predict the future, we will know more soon. I would rather it was successful even though I don't use it. 

[dixonge]

can't find it now, but saw a chart earlier today that someone compiled. The gist was that advertiser posting and engagement/post was about the same when comparing the 8 months *before* and then *after* Elon first announced his intention to purchase Twitter. FWIW

[KenElevenShadows]

6 hours ago, ajstan said:

Thanks, that’s quite the display of pedantry!  😄 Yes, Elon Musk's stated intentions for Twitter are noble.  Even he acknowledges that it will be difficult, and he may fail.  I'm glad he's trying and I'm not sure why a person of goodwill would root against him.

 

I'm not sure if people with goodwill root against him, or that people don't think he has goodwill or would otherwise do a good job. 

 

Regardless, please try to make your points without creating judgments of the people in the discussion. Thank you.

 

[ajstan]

My apologies for interrupting the echo chamber.  I'll try to read the room better next time.

[Anderton]

1 hour ago, ajstan said:

My apologies for interrupting the echo chamber.  I'll try to read the room better next time.

 

<<Elon Musk's stated intentions for Twitter are noble.>>

 

Agreed.

 

<<Even he acknowledges that it will be difficult, and he may fail.>>

 

Agreed.

 

<<I think that the caterwauling about Musk buying Twitter is rooted in the fear that one side may now have to defend its positions in the public arena rather than simply labeling all opposing thought as dangerous and worthy of suppression and punishment (social, financial, and/or physical).>>

 

I disagree. This assumes all conservatives and liberals speak with one mind. They don't. Social media gives anyone the same power to present their ideas as anyone else. In theory, that seems fair. But surely you're familiar with the "birds aren't real" phenomenon that some people took seriously. Between deliberate jokes like that, people thinking John F. Kennedy is still alive and well at age 106, doom-and-gloomers who don't follow the many technological solutions that are being developed, people whose opinions have no basis in fact, and the like, you end up in a situation where the noise-to-signal ratio is such that reasonable people leave because they have better things to do with their time. This results in a space where the most extreme elements battle it out in tribal warfare, as opposed to looking for solutions. At that point, both extremes do indeed label the other side as dangerous, worthy of suppression, etc. But it is a situation they have created, not the social media site itself.

 

Disagree if you want, but my opinion is that most social media is a cesspool, and Twitter is no exception. I can back up that opinion with a few hours of cut-and-paste   I've often joked that I hope aliens never read the comments in YouTube, because they'll conclude there's no intelligent life on earth. So, they'll think we're fair game to become the appetizers at the Alpha Centauri rocket races.

 

<<My apologies for interrupting the echo chamber.  I'll try to read the room better next time.>>

 

You're presenting opinions which you assume are counter to the prevalent opinions of the people here. That is not necessarily the case. They are counter to the people who post opinions here that are counter to yours. I don't see you being banned, censored, or limited in any way that would inhibit your expressing what you want. The problem is that some people aren't buying what you're selling, any more than you're buying what some people are selling. That's a free market in the exchange of ideas. Paradoxically, that's supposedly Twitter's goal. 

 

<<I'm glad he's trying and I'm not sure why a person of goodwill would root against him.>>

 

I don't think the issue is whether or not he's trying, as much as whether or not he gives any sense of confidence to anyone - of any mindset - that Twitter will meet the stated goals. Until recently, people had little factual basis to form opinions other than speculation. However, now is making public statements, and they have been non-specific and contradictory. As the old saying goes, you only have one chance to make a first impression. The impression I get is that as of now, he's in over his head. That doesn't mean he always will be, but it also doesn't mean he won't be, either. We'll see.

 

I wouldn't hire Jack Dorsey to design an electric car. I'm not sure I'd hire Elon Muski to design a social media site.

 

Engineering problems involve facts, and sets of limited variables. But every single person who logs into Twitter is a variable. Gravity isn't going to become twice as much next year and screw up all the calculations involved in getting a rocket off the ground. But Twitter user churn could be easily twice as much next year, and advertiser support, half as much. The rules of social media change daily. The rules of physics, not so much.

 

Twitter has amassed influence far beyond its economic status. People depend on it and use it. People in general are resistant to change. Those who like Twitter are concerned that it will lose the character that made it desirable. It's not just liberals who think that way. Conservatives (from a philosophical standpoint, not a labeling one) would like to have a venue where substantive discussions about policy and solutions can take place, but they're drowned out by those who are a perfect example of the internet equivalent of Gresham's Law. A "free speech" free-for-all will not help them - or anyone - sell their ideas in the marketplace of ideas.

 

(Disclaimer: When I moderated a political forum, half the people thought I was a liberal because I was hard on conservatives, and half thought I was a conservative because I was hard on liberals. The reality is I don't suffer fools gladly, and both sides have an abundance of same. I wish people were more interested in solving problems than pointing fingers and scoring imaginary points in some mutually destructive game. Then again, I also wish dogs could speak English.)

 

[KenElevenShadows]

2 hours ago, ajstan said:

My apologies for interrupting the echo chamber.  I'll try to read the room better next time.

 

State your opinion without mocking or attacking others. I have confidence that you can manage this. Now sally forth and carry on.

[KenElevenShadows]

And so it starts.  

 

'TrumpIsDead' is trending on Twitter after a verified user apparently decided to test moderation of the platform under Elon Musk's reign

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumpisdead-trending-on-twitter-in-moderation-test-for-elon-musk-2022-11

 

Quote

A comedian and actor is putting Elon Musk's control of Twitter and its moderation practices to the test.

 

Tim Heidecker, known for his standup and TV work with fellow comedian Eric Wareheim, on Tuesday started the hashtag #TrumpIsDead on Twitter, owned by Musk since Thursday. In a short series of tweets regarding former president Donald Trump, Heidecker wrote "Trump is dead (died badly) and tagged Musk in saying the billionaire "suppressed this news (or has he?)"

 

"Many are sad by the news," Heidecker went on. "I heard he died in a sad and sick way (not as a dog, but this reporting could change soon)." The comedian is verified on Twitter, with a blue check mark by his name. 

 

Within an hour, Heidecker's tweets had amassed close more than 20,000 likes, thousands of retweets and #TrumpIsDead began trending on Twitter on Tuesday. Musk had yet to respond to or comment on the posts. He has remained a very active user since his takeover, tweeting and responding to other tweets numerous times each day. 

 

 

[Theo Verelst]

In the early days of Unix and email (for me halfway the 80s) striking lack of interest was visible among (mainly) my fellow electrical engineering students and some others. Initially there was some fun having a mail box and the ability to clutter the text screens of all other users on a mini computer, and some other games, but in the engineering context, human contact wadn't hoing to be replaced bu all that wonderfull communication equipment.

 

I think artificial intelligence is seen by some people as a new method of oppression. Like monkeying somebody isn't proper socially  using a computer to claim other peoples' identity  isn't decent either.

 

It's not likely people who could consider canibaslism or child abuse are going to be considered relevant on moral discussions, so the attention by certain circuits is drawn to discussion techniques instead of content, like what was the actual reason Trump lost access to Twitter?

 

Tv

[Anderton]

42 minutes ago, Theo Verelst said:

...but in the engineering context, human contact wasn't going to be replaced by all that wonderful communication equipment.

 

The elephant is the room is Musk's Asperger's syndrome, which affects the ability to effectively interact and communicate with people. In his case, it's a double-edged sword. He has no problem spending hours by himself, alone, programming. But when he has to interact with the people at Twitter, it works against him. He is your basic eccentric genius, with the extra baggage of despising his father.

 

He is used to solving problems. However, "the Twitter problem" involves people, which are not his strength. I have no doubt he really believes he can implement his vision of what social media should be like, and that it's a beneficent one. I also have no doubt he will not be able to implement it.

 

Here's my prediction:

 

1. Musk will soon realize he is involved in an area where he has little expertise. He will regard it as a challenge, and want to come up with solutions.

2. He will find the problems are more or less intractable. 

3. He will depend more and more on assembling a team of people who can try to implement his vision. They will succeed to some degree, but "the new Twitter" will end up looking a lot like the old Twitter.

4. Eventually, Musk will realize that trying to run a social media site is like trying to conquer Afghanistan. He will become disillusioned and bored with the process, and give even more authority to others.

5. Twitter will not be able to make enough money to pay the interest on its debt.

6. Twitter will be sold at a loss to some organization that can absorb it.

7. All the sturm und drang happening now will ultimately be of no consequence.

 

I wish him well, but I do believe this episode will become known as "Musk's Folly" in the years to come. Unfortunately, my takeaway isn't that the problem is Musk, it's the people who have turned social media from something with incredible potential to a divisive, corrosive force that dumbs people down instead of enlightens them. The potential is still there, and has been realized in some corners of the internet. But Gresham's Law is difficult to defeat.

[Theo Verelst]

"Movement!"..

 

No, seriously  so there's the verifiability of the account  c.q. the owner of the account, "no more roaring kitty". Hm.

 

I haven't tried sending pictures or even videos on T  I'd have to search hard to find my password  so maybe I'm not a connoisseur.

 

T

[Anderton]

At this point, it really looks like he doesn't want it.

 

I think telling people to devote themselves slavishly to Twitter for 80 hours a week or get fired is pretty tone deaf. What incentive is there if you're not going to get better compensation? At least offer them some stock, or a discount coupon on a Tesla

 

Maybe it's time to short Twitter, eh?

 

 

[AnotherScott]

19 minutes ago, Anderton said:

Maybe it's time to short Twitter, eh?

He took it private, so there's no stock to trade anymore.