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Radial DIs How do you feel about them? (Studio/Live) (or DIs in general)


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I recently invested some good money into 2 different Radial DIs.

 

Radial JD6

Radial ProD8

 

I'm about to engineer a live recording for a church in about a month and just didn't want to go thr guitar center DI route.  I did lots of research and those are the DIs that I went with.  Just for conversation and perspective purposes, I wanted to see what you guys thought and how you fared over the years with DIs or not.

 

I bought the ProD8 with the live recording in mind, but the more I read and studied, it made me want the JD6 (transformers) for the studio.  

 

Right now I use a Korg MW 2408 as a keyboard mixer for about 16 line inputs and then route them out in on a stereo buss in 3 groups into my interface.  So it takes up 6 inputs vs 16.  So I'm considering removing the MW and inserting a patch bay to use in the same manner .... 16 in 6 out into the JD6 and then JD six to the interface.

 

Feel free to share your thoughts and opinions.  Looking forward to the conversation. 

 

 

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They cost a bit more, but are built to last longer than you or I.  I’ve never found any of their stuff to color the sound negatively as I have on occasion with some Mackie gear, for example.  
 

I own the proav2 and the keylargo. 

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Most important part is the transformer.  The best audio transformer in DIs are Jensen.  In order to have first dibs on the best transformers Radial Engineering bought Jensen Transformers probably around 10 years ago.  Before then they used Jensen but part availability wasn’t as tight.  

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I've only heard good things about Radial products, they should work very well for you. 

That said, I chose Tech 21 products for my DIs since they are also quality, studio quiet and they have useful features for recording and for live work. All of them have a footswitch so you can have 2 different DI settings. I've used the Para Driver and Q-Strip as a way to boost volume, mids and highs a bit for an acoustic guitar, jamming live with friends at a club. It's a nice feature for soloing. 

 

I have the Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver DI which has excellent EQ and Sansamp (analog solid state simulation of tube amplifier distortion) features, great for bass. Current model, has an 80/40 switch for the low EQ to accomodate 5 string bass. 

I have the Tech 21 Sansamp Para Drive DI which features a quasi-parametric midrange EQ and the Sansamp and is voiced more for guitar or keyboards.

And I have the Tech 21 Q-Strip, which is a DI with a 4 band EQ, the two middle bands are quasi-parametric (frequency and cut/boost knobs are included but not a Q knob, same as the Para Driver). The Q-Strip is good on absolutely everything. 

 

All of them can be run off phantom power, all of them are studio-quiet and none of them are inexpensive. Certainly a viable option. 

As they say "Buy nice or buy twice", you've bought nice - enjoy!

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I have the Key Largo, it sounds great and is quiet.  I've never actually done super-critical listening to compare it to anything, I just needed a compact keys submixer and got one partially because it has DIs built in.

Radial deserves a mention for sending me out a couple little washers for the jacks after they had somehow gotten loose and fallen off...no charge, they responded to my email about whether I could buy some by just sending me a few and were very friendly about it.

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24 minutes ago, mate stubb said:

The passive transformer models (especially the Jensen transformers) sprinkle magic audio fairy dust on your sound. I've had my JDI Duplex for years and keys sound audibly better somehow. Radial rocks.

Can you describe the difference?  

 

And are you saying the JDI/6 only or even the PROD8 (both being active)

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4 minutes ago, MAJUSCULE said:

They’re the standard.

I wonder why though? ....

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But do you all feel that DIs are needed/necessary?  When interfaces have combo jack connections...  

 

Wait a minute, are you even doing it for "connections" purposes or something all together different?  Because some say the primary reason for them is to be able to get the keyboard plugged into an XLR snake...

 

I purchased a combo jack snake for this exact purpose... because that was my initial view point.

 

So do you feel there is more to it than just a connection?  

 

So if you can "just buy a cable or an adapter".... Why is there a market for a top end DI such as radial.  ?  There's got to be more to it than a connect. 

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12 minutes ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

But do you all feel that DIs are needed/necessary?  When interfaces have combo jack connections...  

 

Wait a minute, are you even doing it for "connections" purposes or something all together different?  Because some say the primary reason for them is to be able to get the keyboard plugged into an XLR snake...

 

I purchased a combo jack snake for this exact purpose... because that was my initial view point.

 

So do you feel there is more to it than just a connection?  

 

So if you can "just buy a cable or an adapter".... Why is there a market for a top end DI such as radial.  ?  There's got to be more to it than a connect. 

XLR is a balanced low impedence cable, capable of long runs without loss of frequency or noise intrusion. Converting to that close to the keyboard should improve the sound compared to running the usual TS 1/4" cable for a long run. One of the places I play sometimes has the mixer back at least 40 feet and a snake using XLR to the stage. 

So your setup and didstance between interface and performance area is an important aspect to consider when recording. 

 

One of my considerations when purchasing Tech 21 instead of Radial is that there is considerable control over the tone produced and that can be switched in or out depending on what's needed at that moment in the song. Sansamp is legendary by now, came out in 1989 and we've all heard lots of songs with Sansamp used for tracking. I'm interested to hear why others went with Radial and all of the reviews and accolades indicate it is top-notch gear. Horses for courses I guess...

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I chose the JDI because I heard they sound great, because passive means it will work forever, because it had useful features like mono merge, phase switching and ground lift, and because it is so bullet proof and sturdy you could drive a truck over it without damage.

 

I wouldn't use one if I was just plugging in to an amp, but for connecting to a mixing board over a long cable run it is very useful. I also always take it to the studio for recording, even when they have their own DI boxes.

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1 hour ago, Stokely said:

I have the Key Largo, it sounds great and is quiet.  I've never actually done super-critical listening to compare it to anything, I just needed a compact keys submixer and got one partially because it has DIs built in.

Radial deserves a mention for sending me out a couple little washers for the jacks after they had somehow gotten loose and fallen off...no charge, they responded to my email about whether I could buy some by just sending me a few and were very friendly about it.

I have the KL-8 and it is a great piece. I use the Pro D2 in my studio for guitar.  Top notch quality-

 

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The Radial products are really good quality sound wise and build wise.

 

The "J" products use the Jensen transformers.  If the DI lacks the "J" prefix then it has a cheaper non-Jensen transformer IE the "Pro" products.

 

I have both passive and active Radial "J" DIs.  I have no complaints about them.  I also bought a JD6 for the studio, I run the six outputs of my Alesis DMPro through it for recording.

 

Radial products are excellent but not the best.  I'll use Radial for stage work, for studio work my Countryman DIs work better for some applications.  For some EPs - like my Rhodes - I get a much better tone and very low noise with a Countryman Type 10 DI.  I have a stereo Type 10 that sounds great for stereo sources like my Andromeda.

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I use a DI for gigging, at home I'm 100% "in the box" (ie, use software and the only hardware is the midi controller).

I may or may not really need it depending on what I'm connecting to, and which keyboard(s) I may be using...some have balanced outs.  Our mixer is on stage usually about 25 feet from me but when we use a sound company they often either hand me a DI (or two) or expect me to have one.  I always have my Key Largo on my pedalboard even if I just have one keyboard so I'm covered in any situation.   I'm all about one solution fits all whenever I can achieve it :)

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34 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

The Radial products are really good quality sound wise and build wise.

 

The "J" products use the Jensen transformers.  If the DI lacks the "J" prefix then it has a cheaper non-Jensen transformer IE the "Pro" products.

 

I have both passive and active Radial "J" DIs.  I have no complaints about them.  I also bought a JD6 for the studio, I run the six outputs of my Alesis DMPro through it for recording.

 

Radial products are excellent but not the best.  I'll use Radial for stage work, for studio work my Countryman DIs work better for some applications.  For some EPs - like my Rhodes - I get a much better tone and very low noise with a Countryman Type 10 DI.  I have a stereo Type 10 that sounds great for stereo sources like my Andromeda.

I saw a thread today on another forum where a guy changed the PROD2 transformers to the Jensen ones... Now that's cool. !!!  He said that Radial said they are basically plug and play.  But he also said he damaged the pro-d transformers during the swap out.  

36 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

The Radial products are really good quality sound wise and build wise.

 

The "J" products use the Jensen transformers.  If the DI lacks the "J" prefix then it has a cheaper non-Jensen transformer IE the "Pro" products.

 

I have both passive and active Radial "J" DIs.  I have no complaints about them.  I also bought a JD6 for the studio, I run the six outputs of my Alesis DMPro through it for recording.

 

Radial products are excellent but not the best.  I'll use Radial for stage work, for studio work my Countryman DIs work better for some applications.  For some EPs - like my Rhodes - I get a much better tone and very low noise with a Countryman Type 10 DI.  I have a stereo Type 10 that sounds great for stereo sources like my Andromeda.

Better ?  Really ... Why better? (Specifically)

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37 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

The Radial products are really good quality sound wise and build wise.

 

The "J" products use the Jensen transformers.  If the DI lacks the "J" prefix then it has a cheaper non-Jensen transformer IE the "Pro" products.

 

I have both passive and active Radial "J" DIs.  I have no complaints about them.  I also bought a JD6 for the studio, I run the six outputs of my Alesis DMPro through it for recording.

 

Radial products are excellent but not the best.  I'll use Radial for stage work, for studio work my Countryman DIs work better for some applications.  For some EPs - like my Rhodes - I get a much better tone and very low noise with a Countryman Type 10 DI.  I have a stereo Type 10 that sounds great for stereo sources like my Andromeda.

So you are still using a mixer between the keyboards and the DI?  hmmmmm. Why not remove the mixer?  Or better yet, why do YOU use a DI in that scenario?

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2 hours ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

Better ?  Really ... Why better? (Specifically)

 

I record my Rhodes (1967 "sparkletop") straight off the harp to a DI, no preamp.  Rhodes pickups are VERY sensitive to the input impedance of the receiving device, bad enough that it impacts tone and noise.  I had read that a better tone can be recorded with DIs with at least 1Mohm input impedance.  That rules out transformer DIs so you need an active DI.  I experimented with my active DIs, it was clear that rising input impedance did improve the sound.  The best one I had was a little less than 1Mohm input impedance and it was still noisy.  After some research I found that the Countryman type 10 has a configuration with 10Mohm input impedance.  When I bought one and tried it, not only did the noise go WAY down but it got the best tone from the Rhodes.

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2 hours ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

So you are still using a mixer between the keyboards and the DI?  hmmmmm. Why not remove the mixer?  Or better yet, why do YOU use a DI in that scenario?

I never said there was a mixer between the keyboards and the DI.

Why use a DI?  To get as much unaltered tone to the recorder as possible, then apply post processing on playback then mix down to stereo.  This is Audio Engineering 101 material.

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Even with a submixer, it may have unbalanced outs and you might feel you need balanced (I guess if it's a longer run would be the reason).

A mixer is there primarily if you need to submix multiple keyboards, though some people use them to boost volume or to provide pre-FOH monitoring (I've done this last bit a lot myself.)   I've never felt comfortable giving some random sound guy multiple keyboard signals; they seem to struggle enough with one :D   

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I have told a version of this story before, but: I did a session where the first day I ran into their DIs. A very, very nice studio here in town. At the end of the day I changed my set-up just slightly and ran into my own Key Largo and then into a little powered speaker, so I could work on something while the session was closed. 

The next day I just took their xlr's and ran them from my Key Largo (told the engineer of course), and then we tracked our first tune of that day. The producer literally walked out to the live room afterward to basically congratulate himself on getting such great sound out of my keys. I asked the engineer during a break if it was really just the DI, and he said, "100%." That was encouraging, since I'd bought the Key Largo largely on the testimony of others, without ever really A/Bing it (since my previous DI was the Duplex).

Fast forward a few weeks and I was going to do a session at a boutique arm of that same studio. Different room, same owners, and a little cross-pollination with the engineers. The (different) producer said, "I hear you have a great pre, can you bring that?" So I did. We got to A/B it against the fancy-ass Neve pre's. Test after test the obvious and clear winner was the Key Largo. He asks me to bring it for every session now. 

It ever so slightly colors the sound in beneficial ways--almost like mastering does. 

There may be even nicer pre's out there, but I can 100% vouch that this one makes a positive difference in the sound of keys.

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21 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

I never said there was a mixer between the keyboards and the DI.

Why use a DI?  To get as much unaltered tone to the recorder as possible, then apply post processing on playback then mix down to stereo.  This is Audio Engineering 101 material.

That's why I said "YOU" lol... like is there a technical reason or are you just doing it just because?.... I also mentioned people using XLR to 1/4 cables for the same purpose, or adapters.  I was hoping for conversation purposes (and perspective) just to get a blurb. lol.  

and sorry, I saw 6 outputs (on the Alesis thing) and assumed it was a mixer.  my bad. 😀

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13 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

I have told a version of this story before, but: I did a session where the first day I ran into their DIs. A very, very nice studio here in town. At the end of the day I changed my set-up just slightly and ran into my own Key Largo and then into a little powered speaker, so I could work on something while the session was closed. 

The next day I just took their xlr's and ran them from my Key Largo (told the engineer of course), and then we tracked our first tune of that day. The producer literally walked out to the live room afterward to basically congratulate himself on getting such great sound out of my keys. I asked the engineer during a break if it was really just the DI, and he said, "100%." That was encouraging, since I'd bought the Key Largo largely on the testimony of others, without ever really A/Bing it (since my previous DI was the Duplex).

Fast forward a few weeks and I was going to do a session at a boutique arm of that same studio. Different room, same owners, and a little cross-pollination with the engineers. The (different) producer said, "I hear you have a great pre, can you bring that?" So I did. We got to A/B it against the fancy-ass Neve pre's. Test after test the obvious and clear winner was the Key Largo. He asks me to bring it for every session now. 

It ever so slightly colors the sound in beneficial ways--almost like mastering does. 

There may be even nicer pre's out there, but I can 100% vouch that this one makes a positive difference in the sound of keys.

nice story.  I'm going to do A/B some stuff that I have here...  I'm even going to put the JD6 up against the PRO-D8.  I wonder if people will be able to tell a difference.

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The one thing that I'm not sure about yet is if it's ok to use a XLR to 1/4 OUT of the DI to go into the interface (in the studio)... of course that won't be an issue or consideration in a live environment since we are using XLR snakes... but I'm sitting here at the studio trying to decide if I'm going to buy 6 new XLR cables to connect the JD6 to my interface, or if I"m going to just use the XLR to 1/4 cables that I already have...

My Neve preamp knows if I'm using the XLR inputs or the line and it allows only so much gain depending on which is connected.  (I'm only using the Neve as an example, not actually connecting it to the keyboards)

 

Mic +20 to +70db

Line -20 to +20db

DI +30 to +60

 

so for that reason, I'm wondering if HOW it's connected makes a difference too.... 

 

Since the DI changes it from a line level signal into a mic signal, what would happen if you use a XLR to 1/4 cable... does it change back to line?  (I'd think not)

 

Make sense?

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I've had my current RADIAL Pro-D2 in my bag since 2012

It's been kicked, stepped on, run over, rained on, etc...

 

It just keeps working and the sound engineers love it.

I use the "thru" to feed my ears mixer.

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7 minutes ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

The one thing that I'm not sure about yet is if it's ok to use a XLR to 1/4 OUT of the DI to go into the interface (in the studio)... of course that won't be an issue or consideration in a live environment since we are using XLR snakes... but I'm sitting here at the studio trying to decide if I'm going to buy 6 new XLR cables to connect the JD6 to my interface, or if I"m going to just use the XLR to 1/4 cables that I already have...

My Neve preamp knows if I'm using the XLR inputs or the line and it allows only so much gain depending on which is connected.

 

Mic +20 to +70db

Line -20 to +20db

DI +30 to +60

 

so for that reason, I'm wondering if HOW it's connected makes a difference too.... 

 

Since the DI changes it from a line level signal into a mic signal, what would happen if you use a XLR to 1/4 cable... does it change back to line?  (I'd think not)

 

Make sense?

Are the 1/4" plugs 2 conductor or 3?

If 2 (common), it's not a balanced line out. It may or may not cause any noise issues.

The cable won't "convert" anything. Depending on how the inputs are wired the 1/4" in may be able to detect a balanced line or guitar ouput but typically there will be a switch in the interface to allow you to specify what the input is.

 

Decent XLR to XLR cables will be fully balanced and you have to work at it to get them to be noisy, like run them alongside an AC power cord for example. 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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32 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Are the 1/4" plugs 2 conductor or 3?

If 2 (common), it's not a balanced line out. It may or may not cause any noise issues.

The cable won't "convert" anything. Depending on how the inputs are wired the 1/4" in may be able to detect a balanced line or guitar ouput but typically there will be a switch in the interface to allow you to specify what the input is.

 

Decent XLR to XLR cables will be fully balanced and you have to work at it to get them to be noisy, like run them alongside an AC power cord for example. 

It's TRS.  

 

What do you mean it won't convert anything?  and yes there is a switch on the front of the Neve, but if you have MIC selected and a 1/4 plugged in, it produces no sound.  and vice versa....

 

So that's why I'm wondering...  if the Neve can tell what's plugged in and will provide a difference in gain levels, then does it matter what is plugged in.  Seems like it does.  So I want to come out of the JD6 in the manner it was made to work (xlr to xlr) ... I just don't want to buy the cables.  HAHA.  I didn't even think about it as far as the studio.  

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